10,000 Hours Rule - Yes or No

viking24
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Edited Date/Time 3/21/2013 4:51am
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours.

Is this the formula for future mini parents?
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3/20/2013 10:39am Edited Date/Time 3/20/2013 10:42am
yes, that is correct. to become an expert/professional at something that's what it takes
some people reach that goal faster than others, i played tennis for 7 years, about 3-4 hours a day for the first 5 years, and then 8hr/day for the last 2. The last 2 was in D1 junior college, i started when i was abour 13 playing tennis, i was playing against guys who started whenever they were big enough to hold a racquet. My coach told us about the 10,000 hours rule. I believe it. my years playing tennis in college were dedicated 100% waking up goign to the gym for 2 hours before class started at 8am class till 12 go to practice at 1 until it got dark, do that mon-thurs. friday get to courts at 8am practice all day, sat usually matches, on sunday maybe go to the courts and play for a couple hours to work the soreness out, then do it all over again.
Adam43
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3/20/2013 10:42am
Outliers is a great read. Many of Gladwell's theories are applicable to MX.

The one that stood out to me was the hockey-age rule. It suggests that kids born in the early months of the year have a tremendous advantage over those born later, because Jan 1 is the arbitrary date used to group kids according to age (same in MX). A kid born in January has 10 months of growth and development over one born in October.
Hank_Thrill
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3/20/2013 10:47am Edited Date/Time 3/20/2013 3:02pm
10,000 hours will not guarantee anybody success. Nearly everyone racing professional motocross has racked up that many hours, but there can only be one champion at the end of the series. I would say it allows a person of average intelligence and ability to become really good at something, whatever it is (work, music, etc.), simply because most other people in whatever given field or discipline will not strive to rack up that amount of time at something.

Some of his writings deal with psychology and social-psychology. The guy is smart enough to pull the wool over people's eyes, but a lot of his stuff in that regard is garbage in my opinion. I've never read one of his books, just reviews and articles by people with Ph.D.'s reviewing some of his work
3/20/2013 10:48am
10,000 hours will not guarantee anybody success. Nearly everyone racing professional motocross has racked up that many hours, but there can only be one champion at...
10,000 hours will not guarantee anybody success. Nearly everyone racing professional motocross has racked up that many hours, but there can only be one champion at the end of the series. I would say it allows a person of average intelligence and ability to become really good at something, whatever it is (work, music, etc.), simply because most other people in whatever given field or discipline will not strive to rack up that amount of time at something.

Some of his writings deal with psychology and social-psychology. The guy is smart enough to pull the wool over people's eyes, but a lot of his stuff in that regard is garbage in my opinion. I've never read one of his books, just reviews and articles by people with Ph.D.'s reviewing some of his work
10,000 hours doesn't mean winning a title, it means getting to the professional level, from then on its a whole different story.

The Shop

Hank_Thrill
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3/20/2013 10:50am
Adam43 wrote:
Outliers is a great read. Many of Gladwell's theories are applicable to MX. The one that stood out to me was the hockey-age rule. It suggests...
Outliers is a great read. Many of Gladwell's theories are applicable to MX.

The one that stood out to me was the hockey-age rule. It suggests that kids born in the early months of the year have a tremendous advantage over those born later, because Jan 1 is the arbitrary date used to group kids according to age (same in MX). A kid born in January has 10 months of growth and development over one born in October.
It kind of bugs me he reads other people's research and passes it along leading other people to believe he came up with it.
APLMAN99
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3/20/2013 10:52am
twosmoke30 wrote:
yes, that is correct. to become an expert/professional at something that's what it takes some people reach that goal faster than others, i played tennis for...
yes, that is correct. to become an expert/professional at something that's what it takes
some people reach that goal faster than others, i played tennis for 7 years, about 3-4 hours a day for the first 5 years, and then 8hr/day for the last 2. The last 2 was in D1 junior college, i started when i was abour 13 playing tennis, i was playing against guys who started whenever they were big enough to hold a racquet. My coach told us about the 10,000 hours rule. I believe it. my years playing tennis in college were dedicated 100% waking up goign to the gym for 2 hours before class started at 8am class till 12 go to practice at 1 until it got dark, do that mon-thurs. friday get to courts at 8am practice all day, sat usually matches, on sunday maybe go to the courts and play for a couple hours to work the soreness out, then do it all over again.
What is a "D1 junior college"?
GarySemics
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3/20/2013 11:00am
I read Outliers but the book I like better is "The Talent Code". They both claim a lot of credit to the 10,000 hour theory. I believe it has a lot of truth to it in regards to reaching a very high skill level in pretty much anything. But there is still many other factors that need to fit into the puzzle right. In one of my videos I mention The Talent Code and the 10,000 hours. In motocross that would be 5 hours a day, 5 days a week for 13 years.

GS
www.gsmxs.com
APLMAN99
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3/20/2013 11:01am
viking24 wrote:
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly...
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours.

Is this the formula for future mini parents?
Think of it from another angle. If you are naturally talented in a field or activity, you're likely to put in that time. If you naturally suck in a field or activity, you'll likely give it up or not be willing to devote too much time to it.
APLMAN99
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3/20/2013 11:04am
GarySemics wrote:
I read Outliers but the book I like better is "The Talent Code". They both claim a lot of credit to the 10,000 hour theory. I...
I read Outliers but the book I like better is "The Talent Code". They both claim a lot of credit to the 10,000 hour theory. I believe it has a lot of truth to it in regards to reaching a very high skill level in pretty much anything. But there is still many other factors that need to fit into the puzzle right. In one of my videos I mention The Talent Code and the 10,000 hours. In motocross that would be 5 hours a day, 5 days a week for 13 years.

GS
www.gsmxs.com
A little less than 8 years to get to 10000.
3/20/2013 11:09am
twosmoke30 wrote:
yes, that is correct. to become an expert/professional at something that's what it takes some people reach that goal faster than others, i played tennis for...
yes, that is correct. to become an expert/professional at something that's what it takes
some people reach that goal faster than others, i played tennis for 7 years, about 3-4 hours a day for the first 5 years, and then 8hr/day for the last 2. The last 2 was in D1 junior college, i started when i was abour 13 playing tennis, i was playing against guys who started whenever they were big enough to hold a racquet. My coach told us about the 10,000 hours rule. I believe it. my years playing tennis in college were dedicated 100% waking up goign to the gym for 2 hours before class started at 8am class till 12 go to practice at 1 until it got dark, do that mon-thurs. friday get to courts at 8am practice all day, sat usually matches, on sunday maybe go to the courts and play for a couple hours to work the soreness out, then do it all over again.
APLMAN99 wrote:
What is a "D1 junior college"?
just a classification of school athletic level

above d3 and d2 juco's you can only get academic scholarships but not athletic
its above d3 university's (only academic scholarships

slightly lower than d2
and d1 uni's are on a whole other level

think of it this way

pro tennis is pro level in mx
d1 uni's are expert level lower pro level
d2 uni d1 juco are intermediate
d3 uni d2 juco novice
d3 juco beginner class
viking24
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3/20/2013 11:26am
viking24 wrote:
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly...
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours.

Is this the formula for future mini parents?
APLMAN99 wrote:
Think of it from another angle. If you are naturally talented in a field or activity, you're likely to put in that time. If you naturally...
Think of it from another angle. If you are naturally talented in a field or activity, you're likely to put in that time. If you naturally suck in a field or activity, you'll likely give it up or not be willing to devote too much time to it.
No doubt about your comment. He does mention the obvious stuff...passion, opportunity, timing and even luck. But from my own experiences I would say it is likley the case. I started racing at a young age for the times (8) and just loved it with a passion. On the talent side I lacked, but over the years with thousands of hours of practice and training some success was achieved. Of course none of it would have been possible without my parents support.
mnomis484
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3/20/2013 11:35am
There is an austrian motocross rider (mathias walkner) who started with motocross at 13, some people may say that this is way too old to start motocross!
Well, he won the MX3 World championchip in 2012 or 2011 i think.


In my opinion, to be good at motocross, you should have some talent, lots of ambition, as much practise time as you can get, and always be focused on your goal (for example, win a outdoor national) and work hard for it.
GarySemics
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3/20/2013 11:39am
GarySemics wrote:
I read Outliers but the book I like better is "The Talent Code". They both claim a lot of credit to the 10,000 hour theory. I...
I read Outliers but the book I like better is "The Talent Code". They both claim a lot of credit to the 10,000 hour theory. I believe it has a lot of truth to it in regards to reaching a very high skill level in pretty much anything. But there is still many other factors that need to fit into the puzzle right. In one of my videos I mention The Talent Code and the 10,000 hours. In motocross that would be 5 hours a day, 5 days a week for 13 years.

GS
www.gsmxs.com
APLMAN99 wrote:
A little less than 8 years to get to 10000.
Okay, I forgot what I said in the DVD. I had to cue it up to remember. It's 5 days a week for 3 hours a day that takes 13 years to reach 10,140 hours. 3 hours a day of actually riding time is a lot so is doing that 5 days a week. In reality I don't think many, if any, riders can keep that schedule every week let alone every year. But it just gives riders an idea of practice time.
Bytor
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3/20/2013 11:40am
I remeber this from the first guitar teacher I had. I think it needs to be 10,000 hours with out any major breaks inbetween.
I know I was a damn good player when i was playing everyday for 5-8 hours.Now that I dont play much I kinda suck. I would think that would apply more to racing and other physical activity more so than accounting or a simlar occupation.
TX24
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3/20/2013 11:41am
I see that as an idea from about 20-30 years ago being true. Today many times kids on even the local level, pick a sport such as football, basketball or tennis and play it year round. Hardly any of them make it to the top level. Some start young go to all the top camps and still don't make.
BAMX
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3/20/2013 11:46am
McGrath and Dowd both started pretty late. They seem to have been OK.
Shawn142
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3/20/2013 11:47am Edited Date/Time 3/20/2013 11:48am
TX24 wrote:
I see that as an idea from about 20-30 years ago being true. Today many times kids on even the local level, pick a sport such...
I see that as an idea from about 20-30 years ago being true. Today many times kids on even the local level, pick a sport such as football, basketball or tennis and play it year round. Hardly any of them make it to the top level. Some start young go to all the top camps and still don't make.
Well that all depends on your classification of "pro level". Do kids have to get drafted to be considered a professional? Does a kid have to hold a pro license or make a main event before he's considered a pro? Would a fast vet be considered a professional at what he does if he has raced all his life but didn't make any impact at the top level?
Outsider
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3/20/2013 11:49am
Hmm.. that must make me a pro-fapper... good to know!
KlootZak
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3/20/2013 11:59am
viking24 wrote:
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly...
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours.

Is this the formula for future mini parents?
No, it only took me 2 hours to become an expert in rock-paper-scissors. Therefore the formula is rejected. Whistling
AS64
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3/20/2013 12:00pm
How many of you are "expert" Vitards? Tongue
Cspicer
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3/20/2013 12:01pm
Another book relating to the Ten Thousand hour rule is Matthew Syed's "Bounce" in which he dispels the myth of natural talent. He states that it is the purposeful practice within that time frame that is important.
3/20/2013 12:14pm
viking24 wrote:
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly...
I have been reading the book Outliers, where author Malcolm Gladwell examines the factors that contribute to high levels of success. Throughout the publication, Gladwell repeatedly mentions the "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours.

Is this the formula for future mini parents?
Great book.

Work ethic will get you so far. Genetics, staying healthy (luck), who you know/networking, and diet are also major contributing factors.

But as for the 10k hour rule, makes perfect sense to me.
3/20/2013 12:17pm
TX24 wrote:
I see that as an idea from about 20-30 years ago being true. Today many times kids on even the local level, pick a sport such...
I see that as an idea from about 20-30 years ago being true. Today many times kids on even the local level, pick a sport such as football, basketball or tennis and play it year round. Hardly any of them make it to the top level. Some start young go to all the top camps and still don't make.
Even if you star them young, how many actually put in the 10k hours?

To be "on the radar" of teams in MX or scouts in stick and ball sports, you better have put in your 10k hours by the time you are 12-15 years old.

That means 3 hours a day since they were 5 to make it by the time they are 15.

Start at 6 years old or later and then your are looking at more time to catch up. Start too late and youre looking at 4-6 hours a day. And now ask yourself, how many people actually have that sort of discipline and dedication? Very few. And those are the ones that make it.
3/20/2013 12:21pm
10,000 hours will not guarantee anybody success. Nearly everyone racing professional motocross has racked up that many hours, but there can only be one champion at...
10,000 hours will not guarantee anybody success. Nearly everyone racing professional motocross has racked up that many hours, but there can only be one champion at the end of the series. I would say it allows a person of average intelligence and ability to become really good at something, whatever it is (work, music, etc.), simply because most other people in whatever given field or discipline will not strive to rack up that amount of time at something.

Some of his writings deal with psychology and social-psychology. The guy is smart enough to pull the wool over people's eyes, but a lot of his stuff in that regard is garbage in my opinion. I've never read one of his books, just reviews and articles by people with Ph.D.'s reviewing some of his work
twosmoke30 wrote:
10,000 hours doesn't mean winning a title, it means getting to the professional level, from then on its a whole different story.
Exactly.

10k makes you an "expert". But if you start fucking off, like most MXers do the moment they sign that 250f deal, the "expert" status soon erodes away as the competition puts in the continued work that got them there.




I love those that discount Gladwell's work and then in the same sentence say they havent read one of his books. And then on top of that, I highly doubt Hank has much experience with pro athletes either. You'd be hard pressed to find someone that has actually be in and around the pro ranks that would disagree with Outliers.
Sparkalounger
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3/20/2013 12:36pm
Adam43 wrote:
Outliers is a great read. Many of Gladwell's theories are applicable to MX. The one that stood out to me was the hockey-age rule. It suggests...
Outliers is a great read. Many of Gladwell's theories are applicable to MX.

The one that stood out to me was the hockey-age rule. It suggests that kids born in the early months of the year have a tremendous advantage over those born later, because Jan 1 is the arbitrary date used to group kids according to age (same in MX). A kid born in January has 10 months of growth and development over one born in October.
It kind of bugs me he reads other people's research and passes it along leading other people to believe he came up with it.
Hank, below is your previous post and then you wrote that? ^
I've never read one of his books, just reviews and articles by people with Ph.D.'s reviewing some of his work
Torco1
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3/20/2013 12:44pm
Outsider wrote:
Hmm.. that must make me a pro-fapper... good to know!
That would put me in the hall of fame.
APLMAN99
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3/20/2013 12:53pm
Adam43 wrote:
Outliers is a great read. Many of Gladwell's theories are applicable to MX. The one that stood out to me was the hockey-age rule. It suggests...
Outliers is a great read. Many of Gladwell's theories are applicable to MX.

The one that stood out to me was the hockey-age rule. It suggests that kids born in the early months of the year have a tremendous advantage over those born later, because Jan 1 is the arbitrary date used to group kids according to age (same in MX). A kid born in January has 10 months of growth and development over one born in October.
That isn't a "Gladwell theory". That's something that every parent of a kid who has been in athletics has always known. Anyone with a child who had a birthdate just before the cutoff date, anyways.
AS64
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3/20/2013 1:08pm
Outsider wrote:
Hmm.. that must make me a pro-fapper... good to know!
Torco1 wrote:
That would put me in the hall of fame.
I'd be in the record books.
CamP
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3/20/2013 1:26pm
BAMX wrote:
McGrath and Dowd both started pretty late. They seem to have been OK.
I'm pretty sure both rode a lot before they actually raced.
bents
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3/20/2013 1:35pm
MX is different than piano or other disciplines be it musical or athletic because of the set of balls you have to possess to make that climb. Because within that 10,000 hours there is plenty of pain associated with achieving the number, and the willingness to get back to it once you have healed sufficiently.

Other than that, Jabroni hit the nail on the head perfectly.

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