Lowered suspension?

WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle
Edited Date/Time 1/19/2013 1:22pm
I was looking over the old school thread and I remembered how easy it used to be to rail corners on those old bikes, even with all the frame flex, sorry tires and light switch, no power valve engines. Why was that? Because the bikes sat so much lower and, without the ridiculous amounts of sag that we take for granted these days, their geometry was much more consistent.

With that in mind, I wonder if a bike with 9 or 10 inches of travel and much less sag might be preferable to one with 12 inches and lots of sag? If someone wants to go fast, he's much better off going fast in every turn than he is to hit one monster jump, and a lower, consistent geometry bike is ALWAYS going to turn better than a taller, squishy one.

Just a random thought...
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bents
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bents 1/19/2013 7:07am
1/19/2013 7:07am
Man do I ever agree with you on this. Fuckin bikes are just too tall these days man. I'm a short ass and every time I get on a modern bike I pull a groin.
bents
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bents 1/19/2013 7:08am
1/19/2013 7:08am
I recently acquired a 1978 RM 125 (one of my favourite bikes of all time) and I fit that bike perfectly!
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 1/19/2013 7:13am
1/19/2013 7:13am
I'm surprised they haven't been able to go back to about 10" of travel considering how far suspension technology has come. They could get it down to about a 34" seat height. But be prepared for people to chime in now how we should go back to air cooling and drum brakes while we're at it....but to me lowering suspension travel and seat height while keeping the same or better performance would be a step forward.
rcm406
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rcm406 1/19/2013 7:30am
1/19/2013 7:30am
I agree with you! I saw a pic from phoenix SX of RV and Barcia sitting on their bikes side by side and RV's bike looked so much lower than Barcia's. a good 3"! and remember how low RC ran his suspension?

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slipdog
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slipdog 1/19/2013 7:38am
1/19/2013 7:38am
Barcia is flat footed leaning over to RV lifting weight off his bike, RV is short with all his weight on the seat just to touch tippie-toe'd.

As far as old bikes, what's the wheelbase of said '78 RM compared to a '13 RMZ? A shorter wheelbase will turn better.
lilbulld
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lilbulld 1/19/2013 9:17am
1/19/2013 9:17am
I personally have always thought they do something different to those guys suspension/ frames or something.. I am 5'11", 32 inseam and have never been able to be flat footed while sitting still on a bike and always had a feeling of them being too tall, yet every supercross I've been to and seeing pics all the time of riders my size or much shorter able to sit on a bike and be easily flat footed. I have ridden a couple of "lowered" bikes, and it was amazing how much more control was felt over the bike in general & not having the extreme top heavy feeling.. I asked my suspension guy about it in the past & was told, yeah it can work nearly as good but would take some time to get it right, i.e. testing, tearing down & rebuilding over and over or just having it lowered internally and living with it that way
crf250pilot
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crf250pilot 1/19/2013 9:22am
1/19/2013 9:22am
bents wrote:
Man do I ever agree with you on this. Fuckin bikes are just too tall these days man. I'm a short ass and every time I...
Man do I ever agree with you on this. Fuckin bikes are just too tall these days man. I'm a short ass and every time I get on a modern bike I pull a groin.
X2 on the short ass!! At 5'7" I almost need a step ladder to get on the new bikes. Been cutting seats down for years, but my back can't take the rough ride much more. Looking into a 2013 crf250r since it seems to fit shorter riders better. May try to lower the suspension intead of hacking the seat this time around.
Mr. G
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Mr. G 1/19/2013 9:30am
1/19/2013 9:30am
WhKnuckle wrote:
I was looking over the old school thread and I remembered how easy it used to be to rail corners on those old bikes, even with...
I was looking over the old school thread and I remembered how easy it used to be to rail corners on those old bikes, even with all the frame flex, sorry tires and light switch, no power valve engines. Why was that? Because the bikes sat so much lower and, without the ridiculous amounts of sag that we take for granted these days, their geometry was much more consistent.

With that in mind, I wonder if a bike with 9 or 10 inches of travel and much less sag might be preferable to one with 12 inches and lots of sag? If someone wants to go fast, he's much better off going fast in every turn than he is to hit one monster jump, and a lower, consistent geometry bike is ALWAYS going to turn better than a taller, squishy one.

Just a random thought...
I remember when the bikes had just as much travel but still sat much lower. Heck even when the RH Suzukis had almost 14 inches of travel their seat height wasn't that tall.
PRM31
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PRM31 1/19/2013 9:50am
1/19/2013 9:50am
Amen to shorter bikes. Having started in the mid-70s, I witnessed the evolution to taller bikes. I think my 81-82 RMs had 13"+ rear suspension. The tracks have changed too though, whereas there used to be a significant amount natural terrain (not even tilled at all) and whatever bumps formed naturally, now there are man-made obstacles on nearly every straight. Those obstacles are better handled by larger bikes, with more suspension. Imagine trying a modern track on a '73 Elsinore. Yikes!
JB 19
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JB 19 1/19/2013 10:02am
1/19/2013 10:02am
My dad has lowered suspension on his KTM because he has trouble getting his leg high enough to get on the bike, especially in awkward situations. The feel of the lowered bike in the corners is very noticeable. I usually try to set my bikes up to ride lower in the stroke because they feel so much better in the corners.
MotoGUY
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MotoGUY 1/19/2013 10:37am
1/19/2013 10:37am
. RV probably runs a pretty cut subframe giving it that squatting look compared to Justin's bike.
Braaap14
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Braaap14 1/19/2013 10:51am
1/19/2013 10:51am
interesting choices in tires as well, i think the results reflect the tires perfectly
ktm450ds
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ktm450ds 1/19/2013 10:53am
1/19/2013 10:53am
I had my suspension done by Pro-Action and they asked me if I wanted to lower mine at all. If I remember they said they can make it about 1 inch lower with out it causing to many issues. I didn't have it done I was scared it would change how the bike felt, but there has to be someone out here that has had it done.
TripleFive 1/19/2013 10:54am
1/19/2013 10:54am
Braaap14 wrote:
interesting choices in tires as well, i think the results reflect the tires perfectly
Interesting choice of helmet colors as well, I think the results reflect the helmets perfectly.
Braaap14
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Braaap14 1/19/2013 10:57am
1/19/2013 10:57am
Braaap14 wrote:
interesting choices in tires as well, i think the results reflect the tires perfectly
TripleFive wrote:
Interesting choice of helmet colors as well, I think the results reflect the helmets perfectly.
Yeah a helmet keeps your kawasaki from sliding every single corner... dipshit
cable
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cable 1/19/2013 11:37am
1/19/2013 11:37am
Take a look at the bikes when they're on a stand. Something is up
Rooster
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Rooster 1/19/2013 11:37am
1/19/2013 11:37am
Don't forget that when everybody was on two strokes the track developed different lines.

You had nice berms to rail because everybody was trying to keep their corner speed up and you couldn't point and shoot the bike the way you can with today's four strokes. Between the shitty brakes and the lack of traction trying to accelerate from a near dead stop, you just rode the tracks different because you were on different machinery.

I really wish they'd bring back the corners that Pastrana designed for that supercross a few years ago. Seeing guys just railing the berms hard was awesome compared to the pivot turns you get with the standard track designs. I get more of a kick seeing guys dragging their bars through a corner than hucking the big jumps. You corner for dough and jump for show.
bents
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bents 1/19/2013 11:58am
1/19/2013 11:58am
ktm450ds wrote:
I had my suspension done by Pro-Action and they asked me if I wanted to lower mine at all. If I remember they said they can...
I had my suspension done by Pro-Action and they asked me if I wanted to lower mine at all. If I remember they said they can make it about 1 inch lower with out it causing to many issues. I didn't have it done I was scared it would change how the bike felt, but there has to be someone out here that has had it done.
I had mine cut once and it made a huge difference. I might do it again. I have lowering link right now and I like it less then the cut suspension I had. 08 250f Yamaha btw.

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Flip109
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Flip109 1/19/2013 12:36pm
1/19/2013 12:36pm
I had a friend that was prob 5'5" or so and he used to get his suspension cut or something by like an inch or two on his yz125's. He said it railed corners but that sometimes his footpegs and stuff would catch ruts more. His bikes always looked funny sitting so low. Wish I had tried to ride it.
mac3-d
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mac3-d 1/19/2013 12:58pm
1/19/2013 12:58pm
rcm406 wrote:
I agree with you! I saw a pic from phoenix SX of RV and Barcia sitting on their bikes side by side and RV's bike looked...
I agree with you! I saw a pic from phoenix SX of RV and Barcia sitting on their bikes side by side and RV's bike looked so much lower than Barcia's. a good 3"! and remember how low RC ran his suspension?
at the bottom of photo the back wheel of JB is three " higher to start with & JB has also pressure on his leg lifting up the honda
TX24
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TX24 1/19/2013 1:15pm
1/19/2013 1:15pm
If you can replace fork and shock seals it's pretty easy to add the spacers that will lower your suspension say up to an inch. The harder part is knowing how to soften your valving when you do it. If you only add the spacers, it will be stiffer.
vanillaice782 1/19/2013 1:22pm
1/19/2013 1:22pm
I want to do this. Im 5'9" and decided Im too much of a woose to doo the big jumps anymore. Do any companies make aftermarket linkages that could lower it for you?

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