Flywheel nut

JW381
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Edited Date/Time 1/9/2013 7:33pm
I didn't have an impact wrench so I threw in the towel pretty quickly, I think my buddy is gonna bring his down today before we watch A1. Anything in particular I should know about getting the flywheel nut off and the clutch basket it out? (that's the part I'm attempting to replace) What about things I should look for once the basket is out of the way, like wear and tear on other internals? Any help would be great, thanks.

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scooter5002
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1/5/2013 6:25am
Nice looking bike. Clean looking, graphics wise. Not overkill.
Be careful with the flywheel nut, don't use an impact socket on the gun. Use a regular socket, the nut isn't on there that tight anyway. Or shouldn't be. I say this because an impact socket will possibly trash the threads on your flywheel, then the war is on trying to get your puller in. You do have the proper puller, correct?
Be careful with the lock tab washer when bending the tang back down, you'll likely be re-using it. Not necessary to have a brand new one, but it is nice. Just look at at the washers in the clutch assembly for wear, but typically those don't go to shit. Are you installing a Hinson or Barnett basket? Because your OEM is grooved up?
Go REAL light with the impact on the mainshaft nut re-install, if that's the route you're going. Good luck.
mynewcr250
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1/5/2013 6:58am
the right side cover will need to come off to remove the clutch basket, or at least it has to on the second gen hpp motors...
JW381
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1/5/2013 7:13am
mynewcr250 wrote:
the right side cover will need to come off to remove the clutch basket, or at least it has to on the second gen hpp motors...
I've read that for certain models, I don't think I'll have to for mine. I read '02 and after should be okay with just the clutch cover. Guess I'll find out soon enough.
JW381
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1/5/2013 7:16am
Nice looking bike. Clean looking, graphics wise. Not overkill. Be careful with the flywheel nut, don't use an impact socket on the gun. Use a regular...
Nice looking bike. Clean looking, graphics wise. Not overkill.
Be careful with the flywheel nut, don't use an impact socket on the gun. Use a regular socket, the nut isn't on there that tight anyway. Or shouldn't be. I say this because an impact socket will possibly trash the threads on your flywheel, then the war is on trying to get your puller in. You do have the proper puller, correct?
Be careful with the lock tab washer when bending the tang back down, you'll likely be re-using it. Not necessary to have a brand new one, but it is nice. Just look at at the washers in the clutch assembly for wear, but typically those don't go to shit. Are you installing a Hinson or Barnett basket? Because your OEM is grooved up?
Go REAL light with the impact on the mainshaft nut re-install, if that's the route you're going. Good luck.
Excuse me for being a bit mechanically illiterate but can you clarify regular socket vs impact socket, and puller? I have a regular socket that fits the nut perfectly, I was planning on mounting that to the gun. How do I keep the flywheel from moving?

The Shop

circus
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gladwin, MI US
1/5/2013 8:00am
If you have a flywheel puller you won't have to worry about holding the flywheel. I would look up a puller and order one before trying to remove it another way. Its not as simple as taking the flywheel nut off, the flywheel is a press fit to the crankshaft. Hence needing a puller to take it off. A manual is always helpful when in doubt. Best of luck to ya.
JW381
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1/5/2013 8:24am
Thanks for the info, and thanks for not berating me for being dumb. Sounds like I'm just gonna have to take it to the damn shop. The basket was grooved so unbelievably bad. That's what you get when you buy used..
scooter5002
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1/5/2013 9:03am
You don't necessarily have to take it to a shop. The money you spend will be a one time spend, with nothing left after the fact. Fix it yourself, and learn at the same time. It's a win win.
You're in Eugene, not far from MotoSport Outlet, in Portland. (Forgive me if I forget how far it is, it's been 10 years since I made that drive.) Drive up and buy a puller for 20 bucks, or mail order it in. Save your money on gas. Order in a main clutch cover gasket as well, in case your old one is trashed. Most likely it will be when you're done. Get a manual as well, don't work in the blind, and don't guess.
To pull the basket, I'm sure you have to yank the full clutch side cover, not just the one you show in the photo.
35 years ago, I didn't know much either, we all have to start learning from somewhere and someONE else. Wink Don't feel bad. Be glad you asked questions, instead of breaking stuff.
JW381
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1/5/2013 9:15am
You don't necessarily have to take it to a shop. The money you spend will be a one time spend, with nothing left after the fact...
You don't necessarily have to take it to a shop. The money you spend will be a one time spend, with nothing left after the fact. Fix it yourself, and learn at the same time. It's a win win.
You're in Eugene, not far from MotoSport Outlet, in Portland. (Forgive me if I forget how far it is, it's been 10 years since I made that drive.) Drive up and buy a puller for 20 bucks, or mail order it in. Save your money on gas. Order in a main clutch cover gasket as well, in case your old one is trashed. Most likely it will be when you're done. Get a manual as well, don't work in the blind, and don't guess.
To pull the basket, I'm sure you have to yank the full clutch side cover, not just the one you show in the photo.
35 years ago, I didn't know much either, we all have to start learning from somewhere and someONE else. Wink Don't feel bad. Be glad you asked questions, instead of breaking stuff.
Haha I know I need to learn, I'm just not the most patient, nor do I have a whole shit ton of time or garage space. I'll take your advice tho.
DPR250R
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1/5/2013 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2013 1:42pm
So... I am tired and maybe I missed something but isn't the flywheel on the other side of the engine?

What you are trying to remove is sometimes referred to as the "Clutch Hub" or "Clutch Inner Hub"

After you get the hub nut off you shouldn't need a puller. It should slide right off.

To remove it after getting the right side case cover off (if needed)....

- Flatten lock washer

- Install clutch plates (fibers/steel)

- Put pressure on the outer fiber plate and remove nut with impact gun

To swap the basket gear over (last time I did one) you will need a grinder of some sort to remove the rivet heads.

If you don't have a grinder and an impact gun don't bother going any further cause you will just get stuck again.

Let us know how it turns out....
DPR250R
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1/5/2013 1:43pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2013 1:44pm
This guy does it without leaving the plates in... 3:30 in

1/5/2013 4:54pm
Dis- assemble with air / impact gun. Reassemble with hand tools, preferably a torque wrench. Do not use one of those hand impacts that you strike with a hammer for flywheel nut or clutch hub removal. I broke a bearing holder on an old Honda QA50 by giving the flywheel nut a whack with one of these long ago. It ran for a minute or so before the little piece of tramp metal wound up in the cam chain / sprocket and promptly locked up.

Like scooter said, get the manual, and do not be afraid to try things. You will have a few screw ups, but it happens.

Just try and be as careful / observant as you can. Take your time.

You can make a simple, cheap clutch hub holder out of a piece of round bar, an old steel clutch plate, and a minute of welding. And a strap type oil filter wrench will usually hold the flywheel enough to get the nut torqued to spec.
1/5/2013 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2013 4:58pm
Also , try to use OEM parts when ever possible.
motofab36
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1/5/2013 6:12pm
I'm confused, why are you removing the flywheel? I'm assuming you are calling the clutch a flywheel in witch case you do not need a puller.
mx5471
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1/5/2013 6:29pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2013 6:35pm
I'm thinkin the same thing. If you're workin on the clutch, a quick blast of an air gun will take care of it, on and off. If you're workin on the flywheel, you need the proper puller, less than $20. I always use new lock washers on the clutch. If you are wanting to replace the clutch basket with an after market one, you will have to remove the gear on the back of it and put it on the new basket. Don't know if the stock basket comes with the gear on it.
TerryK
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1/6/2013 8:27pm
A couple of other things as well.

When pulling the clutch basket off, take the bolts and springs out of the pressure plate and remove the plate. Leave the clutch plates in for now as the will help hold the whole assembly from spinning when you hit the nut with the impact gun. I'm sure you are not going to have the right clutch holder so in a pinch, just hold the assembly with a rag but be careful! The nut should come off easily.

One the flywheel side, once you have the bolt and washer off, make sure the threads on the inside of the flywheel are spotlessly clean. They are very fine and can be damaged very easily. Back the center bolt out of the puller out so it wont contact the crankshaft when the puller is threaded in. Thread the puller all the way into the flywheel but don't tighten it at all, just until it stops. Now spin the center bolt in until it contacts the crank but again, don't tighten it. Now hold both the center bolt and the outer puller and back the puller out 2 or 3 turns. Now spin the center bolt back in until it contacts the crankshaft and SNUG it with the appropriate wrench, usually an Allen key. The idea here is to use the OUTER part of the puller to do the work. Now use the proper sized box end wrench to turn the outside part of the puller until you hear and feel a "pop". Your flywheel is now off.

I know it sounds complicated but it's not at all, and its critical that it be done this way, otherwise you risk damaging the flywheel and or the crankshaft.
TerryK
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1/6/2013 8:31pm
Another important tip for long clutch life is as follows:

The steel plates are machine stamped out of sheet steel therefor they have a rounded side and a flat side. It is very important to install ALL the the steel plates with the rounded sides facing the same way. All of them facing in, or all of them facing out it dosen't matter, as long as all of the are the same way.
1/7/2013 7:07am
if you are just trying to keep the motor from turning, put a piece of rope down in the head and turn the motor til it compresses the rope. it will keep the motor from turning and not cause any damage. ive done it before with no problems
BAMX
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1/7/2013 10:55am
Try something like these to hold the basket instead of using an impact. You will need one of these to hold the basket and properly torque the bolt when you put it back together.

1/7/2013 12:36pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2013 12:36pm
Old school way is to use a nickel wedged between the gear on the clutch basket and primar gear on the crankshaft. It is malable enough not to hurt the gears but to lock it down. I have also used a steel plate locked down with a vise grip to lock the inner basket and outer basket (hold the steel plate so the vise grip locks thru one of the notches of the outer basket).
captmoto
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1/7/2013 7:05pm
Old school way is to use a nickel wedged between the gear on the clutch basket and primar gear on the crankshaft. It is malable enough...
Old school way is to use a nickel wedged between the gear on the clutch basket and primar gear on the crankshaft. It is malable enough not to hurt the gears but to lock it down. I have also used a steel plate locked down with a vise grip to lock the inner basket and outer basket (hold the steel plate so the vise grip locks thru one of the notches of the outer basket).
Yup, I use a penny thinking it's softer and I save .04 cents over your method. I don't remember pulling the clutch case to remove the clutch. thats why the quick change cover, and you would need to drain the coolant, remove pump, yada, yada, yada.
JW381
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1/8/2013 1:17pm
Please don't make fun of me lol I'm really not that stupid, I just used the wrong term. That would explain why I was so confused by the flywheel puller lingo. I'm quite embarrassed, but glad to know I can get this fixed at least.

:facepalm:
JW381
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1/8/2013 1:19pm
mx5471 wrote:
I'm thinkin the same thing. If you're workin on the clutch, a quick blast of an air gun will take care of it, on and off...
I'm thinkin the same thing. If you're workin on the clutch, a quick blast of an air gun will take care of it, on and off. If you're workin on the flywheel, you need the proper puller, less than $20. I always use new lock washers on the clutch. If you are wanting to replace the clutch basket with an after market one, you will have to remove the gear on the back of it and put it on the new basket. Don't know if the stock basket comes with the gear on it.
I ordered a stock basket a while ago, and it already has the main gear. Thank gawd, considering I'm obviously retarded...
JW381
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1/8/2013 1:22pm
I really do appreciate the tips besides my dumb mistake! I said I was limited in mechanical knowledge, that was just a little brain fart, I guess.
IceMan446
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Sacramento, CA US
1/8/2013 3:18pm
Man there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers! Thats how I look at it anyway.

Hope you get it fixed.

I would also recommend putting some new clutch springs in while you have it apart, order a replacement set and change them again in 3-6 months.
IceMan446
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1/8/2013 3:18pm
Nice ride btw
JW381
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1/8/2013 4:50pm
Thanks, and thanks, IceMan. I'm pretty fond of it myself! I took it to the track once before classes started and the weather got shitty, and I got compliments from the time I drove thru the gate, to the time I left. Felt pretty nice.
JW381
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1/8/2013 4:58pm
BAMX wrote:
Try something like these to hold the basket instead of using an impact. You will need one of these to hold the basket and properly torque...
Try something like these to hold the basket instead of using an impact. You will need one of these to hold the basket and properly torque the bolt when you put it back together.

I ordered a motion pro gear jammer, was that a waste of money, or will it do the job?

DPR250R
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1/8/2013 6:03pm
I think you will still need access to an air or electric impact gun to make your life easy.

I don't see how the gear jammer will prevent the clutch hub from spinning.
1/8/2013 7:26pm
Put the bike in third gear and hold the rear brake to loosen and torque the hub.
mynewcr250
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1/8/2013 7:56pm
BAMX wrote:
Try something like these to hold the basket instead of using an impact. You will need one of these to hold the basket and properly torque...
Try something like these to hold the basket instead of using an impact. You will need one of these to hold the basket and properly torque the bolt when you put it back together.

JW381 wrote:
I ordered a motion pro gear jammer, was that a waste of money, or will it do the job? [img]https://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-TE610/i-HrXds2n/0/L/TE610_Motion_Pro_Gear_Jammer-L.jpg[/img]
I ordered a motion pro gear jammer, was that a waste of money, or will it do the job?

i like mine. its come in super handy. pennies work, but that thing is perfect AND its got a magnet on it which makes it stay put. some people dont care for "tools", i love always having the right tools there knowing it came from my tool box, not under the couch cushions.

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