Since it needs no further introduction, I give you the MPS masterpiece:

scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 7:03am
Again, feel free to post pics. Show us the quality of the whole JOB, not just the welds. If there's been such an improvement in 3 years, SHOW US! We can wait 'til you're finished work and get home. That's no problem, this thread will still be here. Wink
scooter5002
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1/2/2013 7:06am
BTW, a completion date of mid April 2010. Just a minor detail. One that makes you a little off in your math, though. I doubt I have 20 hours on that bike, only because I was so disgusted with it, it gathered dust in the shop for a year and a half. Did you miss that part?
125
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ZW
1/2/2013 7:17am
I've also seen an RMZ frame he did that looked like shit.

However, I will say, that the KXF250 conversion that Dylan Cox rides, looked ok when I saw it. But, i hear he didn't do that one? It's a nice bike, overall.
rjklein4470
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Carmel, IN, USA
1/2/2013 7:43am
You are missing my point, I am not saying his work is perfect because it is not. I just think what you are doing is wrong, going around and bashing him without letting him make it right.

I know that he has offered you a new frame, so all I am saying is you would rather be a hater, than let MPS make this right.

The Shop

125
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374
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12/19/2012
Location
ZW
1/2/2013 7:49am
You are missing my point, I am not saying his work is perfect because it is not. I just think what you are doing is wrong...
You are missing my point, I am not saying his work is perfect because it is not. I just think what you are doing is wrong, going around and bashing him without letting him make it right.

I know that he has offered you a new frame, so all I am saying is you would rather be a hater, than let MPS make this right.
I can not speak for scooter, but the only way that guy could make it right with me, is to take my frame back, and send it to Paul Stoffer, and foot the bill.
rjklein4470
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Carmel, IN, USA
1/2/2013 8:19am
who is Paul Stoffer?
125
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ZW
1/2/2013 8:24am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2013 8:25am
who is Paul Stoffer?
Stoffer is the guy who's frames look like this. Compare that to some of the shit George does, and it is flat-out EMBARRASSING.



yota
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Location
Crystal River, FL, USA
1/2/2013 8:27am
who is Paul Stoffer?
125 wrote:
Stoffer is the guy who's frames look like this. Compare that to some of the shit George does, and it is flat-out EMBARRASSING. [img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/pstoffers/NewFolder119.jpg[/img] [img]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/pstoffers/NewFolder121.jpg[/img]
Stoffer is the guy who's frames look like this. Compare that to some of the shit George does, and it is flat-out EMBARRASSING.



exquisite work by Stoffers..
125
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Location
ZW
1/2/2013 8:48am
And if you or someone you know can tig, you can get the cradle rails, and tabs from him for around 300 bucks (dont quote me) then use your motor as a jig, and put it together.

Or you can pay Fanelli 1300 (i think thats his frame conversion rate) to absolutely butcher your bike.

anyone who knows how to tig, would fall out of their chair laughing at Fanelli's welds. Period, end of story, the proof is in the photos, there is no defense.
dogger315
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309
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11/22/2010
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USA
1/2/2013 9:14am
BAMX wrote:
That is what I was implying with my sarcastic masterpiece remark. Since, I didn't have photos of my buddy's bike I didn't want to get into...
That is what I was implying with my sarcastic masterpiece remark. Since, I didn't have photos of my buddy's bike I didn't want to get into it with guys like TerryK. The Paul Stoffer work on the otherhand looks quality kind of like what I thought my friend would get from Service Honda.
I agree Paul's welder does do nice work and it looks like Paul strives to build conversions anyone would
be proud to own, probably some of the nicest out there. I really like that he uses the OE "Y" and replicates
the OE tubing for the cradle.

I went with Service Honda for my conversion and I'm very pleased with the workmanship and quality of the
welds. My engine slipped right in just as it would if the frame had rolled off the Honda production line. The
bike has been ridden hard over the past year and I have had no frame related issues or problems. Here's a
couple of pictures of a "cleaned up program" SH.

IMO, the shops doing crap work will eventually be weeded out as their reps catch up with them. That's a
good thing for all the rider/racers laying down their hard earned cash.




dogger
125
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374
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12/19/2012
Location
ZW
1/2/2013 10:55am
I have a CRF250 minus the motor, same chassis as Dogger's I will part with. Already disassembled. Come get it.
Suns_PSD
Posts
989
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4/1/2008
Location
Austin, TX, USA
1/2/2013 11:09am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2013 11:11am
Scooter, you got screwed on this conversion and I'm glad you are letting people know, even after time has passed.

That work that "Paul" does, well that is how it should be done.

Lastly, if you are ever ready to ditch that Volvo for a new Kenworth look me up at Performance Truck in Buda, TX, USA. Wink Really current exchange rates should make it very favorable to you.
peelout
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Ogden, UT, USA
1/2/2013 1:16pm
that frame looks like a drawing my 3 year old niece gave me for christmas
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 1:26pm
Lol. Spoken like a true salesman, never overlook an opportunity. Funny you should mention that, I'm finalising an order for a brand new Western Star as we speak. I think a KW T800 spec'd out my way would give me a raging wompstinker the cat could climb and I wouldn't even flinch, but Star is the way I'm going. Had one for 7 years and 1,100,000 miles now, and it's been good. No great. Only 2 trucks will stand up to the pounding of the oilpatch, a KW and Star. I drive my stuff VERY conservatively, but you still need some serious iron for the job. Thanks for the offer, though.

I will gain nothing from what I'm doing here, my money is spent and long gone. The frame job sucks, and that won't change. Really just hoping to spare someone the misery of such a lousy experience, and workmanship that should come from a first year high school welding class. Not a guy who pretends to be in the business of selling conversions "done to above Honda and Kawasaki standards". When did those standards apply, late 1944, when bombs were rocking the factories at Hamamatsu? Would certainly explain the shitty welds, hard to lay a straight bead when you're dodging 500lb H.E. casings.
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 1:29pm
peelout wrote:
that frame looks like a drawing my 3 year old niece gave me for christmas
I dunno peely, isn't that kind of an insult to your NIECE?! Laughing
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 1:39pm
You are missing my point, I am not saying his work is perfect because it is not. I just think what you are doing is wrong...
You are missing my point, I am not saying his work is perfect because it is not. I just think what you are doing is wrong, going around and bashing him without letting him make it right.

I know that he has offered you a new frame, so all I am saying is you would rather be a hater, than let MPS make this right.
And the TRUTH.......shall set you FREE!!

SO........what you're saying is, you are willing to settle for a substandard, hacked up, cobbled together piece of SHIT, simply because that's what you GOT, than insist on something a lot better in quality or at least something that met some reasonable standard. If that IS your definition of "reasonable" or "quality", then apparently I was accurate in my assessment that some have lower standards than I. Which is fine in some cases. This isn't one of them.

What business is it that your are in sir, I got the impression you are self employed. Is this how YOU conduct your business, basically hand people a shit product or service, than try to deflect blame and avoid dealing with the REAL issue? Mostly, YOUR inability to deliver what you advertise to be the best?

You call me a hater. What in HELL does that make you, a gullible buffoon, easily taken for his money, without the balls to do ANYTHING about it? Wow.
jtomasik
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Golden, CO, USA
1/2/2013 1:44pm
And the TRUTH.......shall set you FREE!! SO........what you're saying is, you are willing to settle for a substandard, hacked up, cobbled together piece of SHIT, simply...
And the TRUTH.......shall set you FREE!!

SO........what you're saying is, you are willing to settle for a substandard, hacked up, cobbled together piece of SHIT, simply because that's what you GOT, than insist on something a lot better in quality or at least something that met some reasonable standard. If that IS your definition of "reasonable" or "quality", then apparently I was accurate in my assessment that some have lower standards than I. Which is fine in some cases. This isn't one of them.

What business is it that your are in sir, I got the impression you are self employed. Is this how YOU conduct your business, basically hand people a shit product or service, than try to deflect blame and avoid dealing with the REAL issue? Mostly, YOUR inability to deliver what you advertise to be the best?

You call me a hater. What in HELL does that make you, a gullible buffoon, easily taken for his money, without the balls to do ANYTHING about it? Wow.
I am curious why you'd go such a half-assed route to put together a bike that'll be the eye candy wherever you ride? Why didn't you just go to Service Honda, check out their used section, and walk off with a great bike that has a solid company behind it, and at a great price?

Also, I'm curious why you had him do the work when he started to back-peddle on doing the job in the first place?


Hell, man, for the amount of time you spend bitching about this and doing nothing more than stir up a shit storm, you could've learned to TIG weld and done it yourself. Hell, looks like he was practicing welding on your bike; you could've done the same.
scooter5002
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4748
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 1:47pm
You are missing my point, I am not saying his work is perfect because it is not. I just think what you are doing is wrong...
You are missing my point, I am not saying his work is perfect because it is not. I just think what you are doing is wrong, going around and bashing him without letting him make it right.

I know that he has offered you a new frame, so all I am saying is you would rather be a hater, than let MPS make this right.
125 wrote:
I can not speak for scooter, but the only way that guy could make it right with me, is to take my frame back, and send...
I can not speak for scooter, but the only way that guy could make it right with me, is to take my frame back, and send it to Paul Stoffer, and foot the bill.
"And that one is GONE, over the fence and into the PARKING lot. Man, that's going to take someones windshield out. There hasn't been a shot like that since Reggie Jackson in the 71 All Star Game, when he whacked the light tower at Tiger Stadium." Lol. Boy, you read my mind, 125.
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 1:56pm
You're wrong jtom, I know my limitations. I'll NEVER learn to TIG properly, because my life of trucking eats up my time. I work 70 to 90 hours a week, that leaves little time for anything else. (In the last 5 weeks before Xmas, I took 2 days off, the average workday was 14 hours. Do the math. I flew home from Alberta Xmas morning.) Which is why I paid someone to do the job, someone who I thought was competent. You saw what I got. Perhaps you failed to absorb all that I wrote. I let emotion cloud my judgement. You spend a lot of time in Non Moto, debating and expressing opinions. Am I not allowed to do the same? This is no different, but you take exception with it. Is it perhaps you feel that George is a target, rather than discussing politics. I see a far more more positive result from my efforts, than you from yours. Your points won't change the debt or the political bickering in the U.S. Government. I however, may save a few people a lot of grief and possibly serious injury.
jtomasik
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Golden, CO, USA
1/2/2013 2:07pm
You're wrong jtom, I know my limitations. I'll NEVER learn to TIG properly, because my life of trucking eats up my time. I work 70 to...
You're wrong jtom, I know my limitations. I'll NEVER learn to TIG properly, because my life of trucking eats up my time. I work 70 to 90 hours a week, that leaves little time for anything else. (In the last 5 weeks before Xmas, I took 2 days off, the average workday was 14 hours. Do the math. I flew home from Alberta Xmas morning.) Which is why I paid someone to do the job, someone who I thought was competent. You saw what I got. Perhaps you failed to absorb all that I wrote. I let emotion cloud my judgement. You spend a lot of time in Non Moto, debating and expressing opinions. Am I not allowed to do the same? This is no different, but you take exception with it. Is it perhaps you feel that George is a target, rather than discussing politics. I see a far more more positive result from my efforts, than you from yours. Your points won't change the debt or the political bickering in the U.S. Government. I however, may save a few people a lot of grief and possibly serious injury.
No, I don't feel George is the target. Nowhere did I imply that. I was simply talking about the time and money you've wasted, and the continued grief that you've brought upon yourself. I went the Service Honda route, and all I have is a solid bike that runs great and requires nothing more than changing fluids and tires. Again, when I was considering a 500 conversion, I simply went to the guys who have a solid reputation in the industry. And, going to their used-bikes section, I got one on the cheap (with a LOT less problems....in fact, none at all).

So, back to my two simple questions (the TIG thing was more a jab at his workmanship than anything). Why did you go with him instead of Service Honda, and why didn't you walk away when he gave you the chance? There's no arguing the work was shit work....so don't think I'm trying to defend the job on that frame.
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 2:18pm
I was unaware you had an AF, congrats. First time I've read that. To be honest, I wasn't all that thrilled with what I'd seen in the SH workmanship new, and I'm hesitant to buy used. SH won't mod frames, they only build complete bikes. (At that time) I didn't have 12G for a new 1, but had bought a really nice 04 in 06 that had been trail ridden, in excellent shape. I also owned a 99 CR 500 , so my path was set. Find someone who mods frames, it only made sense. I got stung, and life goes on. Hindsight is 20/20, you're right, I should have walked when he screwed me on the RM deal. Want to OWN one? Lol.
jtomasik
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Golden, CO, USA
1/2/2013 2:23pm
I feel for ya'. Made a lot of bad choices myself along the way. Live and learn, right?

The AF was a serious decision for me, so it was either find a real deal on the cheap (mine was about $6500 with less than 20 hours on it), or do it myself.

Am I reading you right that you bought the Suzuki from him, with the agreement he'd build it into a 500?
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 2:34pm
No, I bought a primo 07 RM blown up, for $1500US. Through a friend of a friend in Michigan. Guy TOTALLY rebuilt the motor over the winter with a brand new Siezeco crank. That it did. Brand new Athena big bore kit got smoked when the crank locked up solid, had less than half an hour on it. Guy was pissed, Wiseco wouldn't cover it, and bought a brand new YZ250. I came to own it AFTER I called George and he said he'd done 2 or 3 already (I made it VERY clear I wanted a 500Af, not 250AF.) and was more than willing to do it. I showed up, frame in hand, and he stuffed me. In reality, I suppose I have $2500 into my conversion, maybe I can recover some of it when I sell the RM. With another 2G US into it. Lol. Awesome.
scooter5002
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4748
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 2:41pm Edited Date/Time 1/2/2013 2:42pm
BTW, that bike came with 3 extra seats and full sets of plastic, the Athena cylinder, the stock cylinder AND crank that I had rebuilt. I bought ANOTHER Athena big bore for it, the ProX rebuild kit for the crank, and I'll need ANOTHER brand new head, and miscellaneous whatnots. I'll have another $1670 into that motor to sell it, on a bike I never would have bought had Whore -Gay not said it was do-able. I'll have $3170 (with my own labour) into a 6 year old bike (OMG, gasp, an F-bomb) that isn't worth that much on a good day. Lol. And the saga continues.
jtomasik
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Golden, CO, USA
1/2/2013 2:50pm
Damn. I guess one thing I've learned is that if I put money into something that backfires, I don't put more money into that same thing thinking things will get better. Sucks he stiffed you on the RM. At that point, I don't think I would've done more business with him unless he resolved that.

Not sure who does the welding for him. At first I couldn't tell whether it was a shitty MIG job, until I kept looking at it and then started laughing visualizing some guy sitting there simply melting a big blob of aluminum with his TIG torch. I'll bet that was one hot motherfucking frame! Did he have the motor itself to fit to the frame when he did the work?
yota
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Crystal River, FL, USA
1/2/2013 2:58pm
Before I did my AF I talked to AJ at Service and George at MPS. AJ is a great guy but at the time there were issues with the welding and fabrication on some of his bikes also (I think those days are over and workmanship is improved). George was completely arrogant with me on the phone when I told him I wanted to use a 3rd Gen CR125 chassis.

The guy I had mod the frame was doing the best fabrication out there at the time but turned out to be a thief and screwed a lot of people. I was lucky and got my frame after 3 months.

My decision wasn't based on cost, The guy who did mine and AJ were about the same for Frame only work (AJ did offer to convert my frame at that time, don't know if he still does).

I would be pissed and would NEVER accept work like that.
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 3:00pm Edited Date/Time 1/2/2013 3:00pm
He has a welder who uses an empty bottom end case set to tack things in place, then takes the cases out, and starts pouring the heat and the rod to it. Gee, think THAT'S going to cause a problem? Lol. Major warpage in those rails, and they will suck in because that's the natural curve to them anyway. Quite obviously, MPS doesn't even test fit the case, back in once they're done and cooled, because they would have known the motor wouldn't fit down in the mounts. Or they do, say "Fuck, ANOTHER one." and blow it out the door. I can't imagine the life of that poor prick he has assembling his shit. If he wasn't a pothead when he started there, he probably is NOW.
Even if he used a jig like the ones for sale on banned for CHEAP, the damn things would go together, ugly welds or otherwise. George just isn't that smart. He's cowered in the Dumbgeon, and now run away and hidden out of sight, because he knows he's going to get get his ASS kicked up here in this thread. Spineless.
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta, CA
1/2/2013 3:03pm
yota wrote:
Before I did my AF I talked to AJ at Service and George at MPS. AJ is a great guy but at the time there were...
Before I did my AF I talked to AJ at Service and George at MPS. AJ is a great guy but at the time there were issues with the welding and fabrication on some of his bikes also (I think those days are over and workmanship is improved). George was completely arrogant with me on the phone when I told him I wanted to use a 3rd Gen CR125 chassis.

The guy I had mod the frame was doing the best fabrication out there at the time but turned out to be a thief and screwed a lot of people. I was lucky and got my frame after 3 months.

My decision wasn't based on cost, The guy who did mine and AJ were about the same for Frame only work (AJ did offer to convert my frame at that time, don't know if he still does).

I would be pissed and would NEVER accept work like that.
You used Fachar? Geez, you were lucky. He did put it to a lot of guys. I wonder if he and Whore-Gay are, like, RELATED or sumthin'? Lol.

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