Chad Reed 6TH WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!

jeffro503
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jeffro503 12/31/2012 7:24am
12/31/2012 7:24am
gnarwhip wrote:
They put Bayle ahead of Bradshaw. That's just utter ridiculousness
Big wrote:
Get of the ganja man? Bayle is "THE" man. No peds no shit no cheating. Pure talent and technic. Also roadracing at highest level. #1 alltime.No...
Get of the ganja man? Bayle is "THE" man. No peds no shit no cheating. Pure talent and technic. Also roadracing at highest level. #1 alltime.No competition. Ask DV12 he knows everything from inside and both worlds of mx. FIM and AMA. He can maybe tell you whos "THE" man? and he's of course very objektive as a French gentlemen....Whistling
The JMB stuff is over rated in my book. Yeah he was awesome but only for a short period. 90-92' were his strong years , with 91' being the year he won everything.........but that's it. How can you compare that.......to someone like MC's records with all those SX championships. He had a season where he lost only one race. Won 14 out of 15. Other seasons where he only lost a couple. And if you want to throw in other types of racing.........why not just stick with MX? Then go look at 10 yrs of dominance from RC in both SX and MX and tell me you think JMB was better.

BUT.....this is an SX only thing here.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 12/31/2012 7:42am
12/31/2012 7:42am
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....that's a flaw in your logic. To base someone's finishes over a "career" is not only stupid , it's pointless. You have to base the results...
Well....that's a flaw in your logic. To base someone's finishes over a "career" is not only stupid , it's pointless. You have to base the results off "just" the rider. It's not the riders fault if he had a weak field to race against......BECAUSE people could just come back and say " it wasn't a weak field.....he was just that dominant".

These little loop hole arguments that people keep bring up is friggin' stupid.

If a guy had 100 races he "entered" and won 40 ( 40%).....then that's the number you base it off of. Then you ALSO have to come up with a sliding scale for a rider in which he missed a full season.

Ah Fuck it! There are so many variables to this argument it's insane.......that's why I say keep it simple and just look at the record books.
kongols wrote:
Reed has 42 wins in 148 starts -29% Stewart has 44 wins in 88 starts -50% Carmichael has 48 in 115 starts -41% Mcgrath has 72...
Reed has 42 wins in 148 starts -29%
Stewart has 44 wins in 88 starts -50%
Carmichael has 48 in 115 starts -41%
Mcgrath has 72 wins in 173 races -42%
Bob Hannah 27 wins in 84 races -32%
Rick Johnson 28 wins 97 races - 28%
Thanks Kong!

I knew Stewart's record was going to be strong with the win ratio. That's part of what I was getting to......but lets take Stewart for one instance here and look at the other 44 races. Like how many 2nd's , 3rds , 4th's ,10th's and dnf's did he have? What you have there is a great start......and an eye opener. Reed has 60 more starts than Stewart? AND.....looking at that win ratio and how some of the older gen fan club sticks up for Hannah and RJ........they have the worst win ratio on that list! I was around during those days and was a huge fan of both ( not really Hannah because I thought he was a prick ).....but the win ratio doesn't lie.....they weren't as dominant as some of the next gen racers from MC on.

I think the JMB thing could be one of the big factors in figuring this thing out all wrong. He had some strong seasons....but it was short lived. Almost always on the box....but not dominant like some people think. Stanton and Bradshaw gave him a run for wins.

That's why I think there should also be a sliding scale of some kind. Maybe make a 10yr career scale. Add and subtract a certain % with years in which they competed and years they missed.

Shit.....this is turning out to be a cool thread I think.

On a side note : I wish I would of thought about this earlier......but this winter when I was bored as hell , I could have made an Excel spread sheet of some type for this.
hellion
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hellion 12/31/2012 8:30am
12/31/2012 8:30am
The win ratio shows some importance, but you can't forget that a racer racing past his prime is going to seriously hurt that number. RC would be nowhere close to MC's number if MC had quit at his near peak like RC did. Hannah also raced on for years after his prime, and more than that raced in an era where machinery was far from equal. I remember when the Yamaha's Hannah had to race were a joke compared to the Factory Suzuki's and Honda's. So, numbers don't say it all. You have to have seen them race to be able to judge IMO. That said, I never really saw Jimmy Ellis at his prime and he was reported to be a beast too. Who knows what he could have done given a 16 or 17 race season, compared to the 4 or 6 that he had.
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TDeath21 12/31/2012 10:03am
12/31/2012 10:03am
kongols wrote:
Reed has 42 wins in 148 starts -29% Stewart has 44 wins in 88 starts -50% Carmichael has 48 in 115 starts -41% Mcgrath has 72...
Reed has 42 wins in 148 starts -29%
Stewart has 44 wins in 88 starts -50%
Carmichael has 48 in 115 starts -41%
Mcgrath has 72 wins in 173 races -42%
Bob Hannah 27 wins in 84 races -32%
Rick Johnson 28 wins 97 races - 28%
How long did that list take you? Lol.

The thing about win percentages is it doesn't take into account all the races they miss due to injury. I think durability and consistency needs to be a factor too. Theoretically, every racer could have a crash or win percentage of 100%.

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kongols 12/31/2012 10:10am
12/31/2012 10:10am
TDeath21 wrote:
How long did that list take you? Lol. The thing about win percentages is it doesn't take into account all the races they miss due to...
How long did that list take you? Lol.

The thing about win percentages is it doesn't take into account all the races they miss due to injury. I think durability and consistency needs to be a factor too. Theoretically, every racer could have a crash or win percentage of 100%.
It took me around 3 minutes.
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TDeath21 12/31/2012 10:14am
12/31/2012 10:14am
TDeath21 wrote:
How long did that list take you? Lol. The thing about win percentages is it doesn't take into account all the races they miss due to...
How long did that list take you? Lol.

The thing about win percentages is it doesn't take into account all the races they miss due to injury. I think durability and consistency needs to be a factor too. Theoretically, every racer could have a crash or win percentage of 100%.
kongols wrote:
It took me around 3 minutes.
I forgot about the Racer X Vault.
Matthes
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Matthes 12/31/2012 10:20am
12/31/2012 10:20am
Couple of columns on Pulpmx about this:

HERE

and

HERE
holeshot100
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holeshot100 12/31/2012 11:16am
12/31/2012 11:16am
Matthes wrote:
Couple of columns on Pulpmx about this:

HERE

and

HERE
Beware that 2nd link is extremely graphic.
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McDizzle 12/31/2012 11:25am
12/31/2012 11:25am
Who the fuck cares about a list. All that matters is who is number one. Who gives a flying fuck who 6th best is or even 2nd.
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APLMAN99 12/31/2012 11:53am
12/31/2012 11:53am
Big wrote:
MC of course 2nd same deal as Bayle without roadracing. (MC more wins but Bayle won until he got bored. It was like stealing candy from...
MC of course 2nd same deal as Bayle without roadracing. (MC more wins but Bayle won until he got bored. It was like stealing candy from kids) The rest is red light Armstrongwarning.
I think the Bayle stuff is a bit overstated, to be honest. Definitely a great racer, smooth style, etc. But he wasn't the most dominant rider by a long ways. I think his best SX season he won something like 8 of 18 races. That's awesome for the average racer, but one season like that doesn't equate to an all time best.

He probably could have hung around and won some more races and titles, but that's just a maybe....
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Motodude 12/31/2012 3:36pm
12/31/2012 3:36pm
CR could be #2 come June.
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FreshTopEnd 12/31/2012 5:13pm
12/31/2012 5:13pm
I'd put Reed ahead of Hannah, and at least on par with RJ as it stands, as far as SX goes, but it's not a terribly unfair ranking.
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RandyS 12/31/2012 5:39pm
12/31/2012 5:39pm
Motodude wrote:
CR could be #2 come June.
If the Chad Reed of the weeks leading up to him getting hurt shows up, you could be right. Makes you wonder what could have been if he hung it out more his entire career.
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cason402 12/31/2012 6:23pm
12/31/2012 6:23pm
FroDiddy wrote:
So what you're saying is that James has more wins in SX than Reed in less starts? That, by itself, is a good argument.
but JS didn't have to race as many races, due to injury and most commonly in this sport it is self induced.

I'd like to see a stat, that showed percentage of wins in relation to amount of gate drops from the first race as pro to retirement.

the asterisks thing has always bothered me, because if the so called "fastest" guy hurts himself and can't make it to the gate: he isn't the fastest - he's doesn't even make the main.

the guy who made it to the gate and finished 6th beat him by a hell of a long way and a lot of points. so did the guy who got 20th.
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cason402 12/31/2012 6:27pm
12/31/2012 6:27pm
kongols wrote:
Reed has 42 wins in 148 starts -29% Stewart has 44 wins in 88 starts -50% Carmichael has 48 in 115 starts -41% Mcgrath has 72...
Reed has 42 wins in 148 starts -29%
Stewart has 44 wins in 88 starts -50%
Carmichael has 48 in 115 starts -41%
Mcgrath has 72 wins in 173 races -42%
Bob Hannah 27 wins in 84 races -32%
Rick Johnson 28 wins 97 races - 28%
this is what i'm talkin' about.

starts, NO, starts that the rider was able to get to.

how many starts were there during that time frame that the rider didn't make. that's a factor that HAS to be calculated.

In this formula, Justin Barcia is the KING OF ALL MANKIND. 100 percent win percentage.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 12/31/2012 7:46pm
12/31/2012 7:46pm
Matthes wrote:
Couple of columns on Pulpmx about this:

HERE

and

HERE
Holy crap Steve.....those charts are friggin' awesome! Thanks for taking the time to do these ( or have someone else do them ). Love checking out graphs and so forth....I do better with pictures than words.

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