Why JS7 Crashes Too Much?

mikey
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Edited Date/Time 12/10/2012 5:38am
I will try to make this post somewhat worthwhile. I am not anywhere nearly as fast, talented or prepared of a rider as JS7 so I can't speak from experience. Despite this I could be a more intelligent human being, I dunno.

I was happy to read Ping's latest Ask Ping. He said the same thing I have been saying for years. JS7's home track isn't much like what he races on. I believe JS7 largely rides at home, is this correct? I have been saying this for awhile, even when he was doing "better". I'm not a genius, but it seems to me that if you practice in race conditions then that can't be a bad thing. My my .02.
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TerryK
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12/7/2012 11:44pm
Shitstorm in 5...4....3....
kongols
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12/7/2012 11:45pm
He was out in Cali for a month, testing.
kongols
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12/8/2012 12:01am
I have a theory about his crashes this Nationals season. It`s because of long straight ruts. You don`t get that kind of ruts ANYWHERE except during a pro race. No practice track has them.
12/8/2012 12:21am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 12:23am
kongols wrote:
I have a theory about his crashes this Nationals season. It`s because of long straight ruts. You don`t get that kind of ruts ANYWHERE except during...
I have a theory about his crashes this Nationals season. It`s because of long straight ruts. You don`t get that kind of ruts ANYWHERE except during a pro race. No practice track has them.
True, but everyone else races in the same conditions. I think James just pushes the envelope too much sometimes, and it comes back to bite him. He is on another level no doubt though, just needs to know when to back it down a tad in my opinion.

The Shop

12/8/2012 5:34am
Does he really crash much more than anyone else though?

I think he does but it's also worth remembering that in 2012 all the premiere riders missed races due to crashing, even Ryan Dungey. If we look at Villopoto he missed almost all of the 2009 National series through injury, and then again in 2010 after breaking his leg in Supercross. And of course this year he was again absent outdoors due to his knee injury obtained in SX.

With that said crashing often is a different kettle of fish from injuries sustained. RV doesn't seem to crash as much as James yet when does, he seems to get hurt easier perhaps. I think it's just pushing the envelope tbh. The race Chad got hurt this year -Windham too - it looked like both riders were caught in the moment, riding right on the edge.
Roscoe33
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12/8/2012 6:02am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 10:32am
start with basics., practice your race conditions, practice with traffic, race with traffic.
his last tumble when he cross rutted because someone ran the track in front of him is an example of his distraction control or lack of focus control.
fader418
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12/8/2012 7:36am
kongols wrote:
I have a theory about his crashes this Nationals season. It`s because of long straight ruts. You don`t get that kind of ruts ANYWHERE except during...
I have a theory about his crashes this Nationals season. It`s because of long straight ruts. You don`t get that kind of ruts ANYWHERE except during a pro race. No practice track has them.
Thats what I said a million times. Why do they have to FLOOD the tracks?
fader418
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12/8/2012 7:42am
Does he really crash much more than anyone else though? I think he does but it's also worth remembering that in 2012 all the premiere riders...
Does he really crash much more than anyone else though?

I think he does but it's also worth remembering that in 2012 all the premiere riders missed races due to crashing, even Ryan Dungey. If we look at Villopoto he missed almost all of the 2009 National series through injury, and then again in 2010 after breaking his leg in Supercross. And of course this year he was again absent outdoors due to his knee injury obtained in SX.

With that said crashing often is a different kettle of fish from injuries sustained. RV doesn't seem to crash as much as James yet when does, he seems to get hurt easier perhaps. I think it's just pushing the envelope tbh. The race Chad got hurt this year -Windham too - it looked like both riders were caught in the moment, riding right on the edge.
^ this ^ its funny how people think the competition has caught up to James. The tracks are so basic now in SX, everybody does everything the same and not many places to make up time. And outdoors, they just keep grooming and flooding the tracks for "better tv" which is a complete joke. Its outdoors let it get rough..
JeepnMike
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12/8/2012 7:47am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 9:47am
Indoors it was Pirelli tires and the beloved Yamaha. Outdoors it got real... Folks saw how well he was doing on the Suzuki and had to take drastic measures. They hired Peelout to dress as a photographer and jump out in front of Stewart in a high speed rutted corner ending his season with a hand injury that nobody still knows what was broke.
jndmx
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12/8/2012 7:50am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 8:29am
Anyone that says they don't let the national tracks get rough should get the fuck outta california and go to a race.

Unadilla and Southwick would be my recommendation.
Hut
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12/8/2012 8:10am
jndmx
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12/8/2012 8:16am
Hut wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/08/CameraSquirrel_570928.jpg[/img]
Hut
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12/8/2012 8:20am
jndmx wrote:
[img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dhKPr3xfgog/UAHWyhBIG9I/AAAAAAAAF2Q/x50Iyqab41w/s1600/UP-squirrel.gif[/img]
Laughing Laughing Laughing sorry Bubba and mysterious cameraman but that one had me laughing
Cook441
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12/8/2012 8:20am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 8:42am
Does he really crash much more than anyone else though? I think he does but it's also worth remembering that in 2012 all the premiere riders...
Does he really crash much more than anyone else though?

I think he does but it's also worth remembering that in 2012 all the premiere riders missed races due to crashing, even Ryan Dungey. If we look at Villopoto he missed almost all of the 2009 National series through injury, and then again in 2010 after breaking his leg in Supercross. And of course this year he was again absent outdoors due to his knee injury obtained in SX.

With that said crashing often is a different kettle of fish from injuries sustained. RV doesn't seem to crash as much as James yet when does, he seems to get hurt easier perhaps. I think it's just pushing the envelope tbh. The race Chad got hurt this year -Windham too - it looked like both riders were caught in the moment, riding right on the edge.
fader418 wrote:
^ this ^ its funny how people think the competition has caught up to James. The tracks are so basic now in SX, everybody does everything...
^ this ^ its funny how people think the competition has caught up to James. The tracks are so basic now in SX, everybody does everything the same and not many places to make up time. And outdoors, they just keep grooming and flooding the tracks for "better tv" which is a complete joke. Its outdoors let it get rough..
I think RC started with the farm and then James really went at it with his compound...now days all these guys move to florida or georgia and build training facilities. You see sick vids of Barcia...etc. If you really don't believe that these guys have elevated their game your blind. There was a tripple last year or the year before only a couple guys were getting and Reed was choosing not to do it.What about Vegas 2011 I think when Kdub and JS are the only two quading that jump....kdub was all over him to the point JS took em both out ...oh but it wasnt KDUBS skills it was that easy ass track...right Sad I do agree about the outdoor grooming and suspect it hurts us most when we race the guys from europe but thats another story-

This year at A1 we will have ten former premiere class winners more than ever in the history of the sport...fun fact from racerx
Cook441
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12/8/2012 8:24am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 8:25am
jndmx wrote:
Anyone that says they don't let the national tracks get rough should get the fuck outta california and go to a race. Unadilla and Southwick would...
Anyone that says they don't let the national tracks get rough should get the fuck outta california and go to a race.

Unadilla and Southwick would be my recommendation.
Ive been going to Washougal since 1990 and distinctly recall the track I rode on being hands down ten times rougher than what the pros were rolling on the last few years....they smoothed that sumbitch down no more kickers in the corner ruts etcit was faster than a bullet everywhere etc....but Ill take your word on Dilla and the wick
jndmx
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12/8/2012 8:35am
jndmx wrote:
Anyone that says they don't let the national tracks get rough should get the fuck outta california and go to a race. Unadilla and Southwick would...
Anyone that says they don't let the national tracks get rough should get the fuck outta california and go to a race.

Unadilla and Southwick would be my recommendation.
Cook441 wrote:
Ive been going to Washougal since 1990 and distinctly recall the track I rode on being hands down ten times rougher than what the pros were...
Ive been going to Washougal since 1990 and distinctly recall the track I rode on being hands down ten times rougher than what the pros were rolling on the last few years....they smoothed that sumbitch down no more kickers in the corner ruts etcit was faster than a bullet everywhere etc....but Ill take your word on Dilla and the wick
08, 09 I agree they were smoothing things out too much.
My son made a comment in 09 when we were at MX 338 that they don't even smooth it that much for the local races.....lol.

In the past couple years I have noticed that they are letting it get rougher, although they do still smooth out a couple spots.
We walked the track after the race last year and there were 3-4 foot holes everywhere.
BR_HERO
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12/8/2012 9:02am
Does he really crash much more than anyone else though? I think he does but it's also worth remembering that in 2012 all the premiere riders...
Does he really crash much more than anyone else though?

I think he does but it's also worth remembering that in 2012 all the premiere riders missed races due to crashing, even Ryan Dungey. If we look at Villopoto he missed almost all of the 2009 National series through injury, and then again in 2010 after breaking his leg in Supercross. And of course this year he was again absent outdoors due to his knee injury obtained in SX.

With that said crashing often is a different kettle of fish from injuries sustained. RV doesn't seem to crash as much as James yet when does, he seems to get hurt easier perhaps. I think it's just pushing the envelope tbh. The race Chad got hurt this year -Windham too - it looked like both riders were caught in the moment, riding right on the edge.
fader418 wrote:
^ this ^ its funny how people think the competition has caught up to James. The tracks are so basic now in SX, everybody does everything...
^ this ^ its funny how people think the competition has caught up to James. The tracks are so basic now in SX, everybody does everything the same and not many places to make up time. And outdoors, they just keep grooming and flooding the tracks for "better tv" which is a complete joke. Its outdoors let it get rough..
*this* It's stupid.
12/8/2012 9:06am
Get James to buy into a more conservative setup that didn't require him to hit everything so hard to work, and he wouldn't lose a title.
Cook441
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12/8/2012 9:08am
UpTiTe wrote:
Get James to buy into a more conservative setup that didn't require him to hit everything so hard to work, and he wouldn't lose a title.
If Johnny O can't do it who can?
Drew580
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12/8/2012 9:19am
Whether he crashes a lot or not, he's still one of the most exciting riders to watch
12/8/2012 9:25am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 9:26am
UpTiTe wrote:
Get James to buy into a more conservative setup that didn't require him to hit everything so hard to work, and he wouldn't lose a title.
Cook441 wrote:
If Johnny O can't do it who can?
You watch video of his bike at Unidilla and the front is just soooo stiff, it just pushed through turns. He had to see it.
watson
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12/8/2012 9:30am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 10:10am
Never understood the theory where the tracks getting easier equated to James getting slower. Is it really that hard to admit that his competition has caught up?
RbR
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12/8/2012 9:39am
James may crash too much, but I'd really like to know who doesn't crash enough ... Um...
Cook441
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12/8/2012 9:43am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 9:58am
UpTiTe wrote:
Get James to buy into a more conservative setup that didn't require him to hit everything so hard to work, and he wouldn't lose a title.
Cook441 wrote:
If Johnny O can't do it who can?
UpTiTe wrote:
You watch video of his bike at Unidilla and the front is just soooo stiff, it just pushed through turns. He had to see it.
You watch video of his bike at Unidilla and the front is just soooo stiff, it just pushed through turns. He had to see it.
True but he ha always ran his bike that way even through the years of dominance..its what allows him to attack the jumps so much harder...I think it may contribute to some tip over in the corners etc....but the fact is he created the bubba scrub. Guys used to hit the back brake in the air and he would just scrub the jump...he could pull huge leads and life was good. Fast forward to now and you'll see every moto kid knows and uses the scrub...I think Trey can lay down a better one than the creator himself. The tenths these guys squeeze out of a sx track are to the point where physics won't allow a much lower scrub or a faster corner...this causes a wicked edge in order to win....some ride it better than others or some back it down a few tenths to land on the box....look at Reed, and Kdub last year...just before they went down they never looked better they were both on a wicked edge. The guy that can ride the edge, the guy that can squeeze the tenths the best twenty times in a row will win races and the guy that knows when to go for it and when to not will win the championship IMO. The Edge is why he crashes IMHO he chooses the edge over 2nd or 3rd every time
12/8/2012 10:13am
Cook441 wrote:
If Johnny O can't do it who can?
UpTiTe wrote:
You watch video of his bike at Unidilla and the front is just soooo stiff, it just pushed through turns. He had to see it.
You watch video of his bike at Unidilla and the front is just soooo stiff, it just pushed through turns. He had to see it.
Cook441 wrote:
True but he ha always ran his bike that way even through the years of dominance..its what allows him to attack the jumps so much harder...I...
True but he ha always ran his bike that way even through the years of dominance..its what allows him to attack the jumps so much harder...I think it may contribute to some tip over in the corners etc....but the fact is he created the bubba scrub. Guys used to hit the back brake in the air and he would just scrub the jump...he could pull huge leads and life was good. Fast forward to now and you'll see every moto kid knows and uses the scrub...I think Trey can lay down a better one than the creator himself. The tenths these guys squeeze out of a sx track are to the point where physics won't allow a much lower scrub or a faster corner...this causes a wicked edge in order to win....some ride it better than others or some back it down a few tenths to land on the box....look at Reed, and Kdub last year...just before they went down they never looked better they were both on a wicked edge. The guy that can ride the edge, the guy that can squeeze the tenths the best twenty times in a row will win races and the guy that knows when to go for it and when to not will win the championship IMO. The Edge is why he crashes IMHO he chooses the edge over 2nd or 3rd every time
I think the tracks are a bit easier now and he has to push to separate himself. I think if he relaxed and was happy with a second or third and just let the race come to him instead of always pushing, he would be a lot better off.
GuyB
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12/8/2012 10:16am
jndmx wrote:
Anyone that says they don't let the national tracks get rough should get the fuck outta california and go to a race. Unadilla and Southwick would...
Anyone that says they don't let the national tracks get rough should get the fuck outta california and go to a race.

Unadilla and Southwick would be my recommendation.
People who don't go to the races (and haven't in years) say that.
40Plus_922mx
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12/8/2012 10:54am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2012 10:57am
1). He won so much, and dominated so much early in his carreer that he and everyone else have the highest of expectations of himself.
2). He has surrounded himself with so much hype these last 5 years that the pressure is that much more severe.
3). He makes bad decisions on the track due to number 1 and number 2 points.
4). He is more willing than anyone to ride on the edge around guys who are just trying to finish resulting in bad crashes.
5). He has so many distractions from money money money and image image image.
6). Due to this pressure he was willing to ride a bike ( yes the Yami) before it was set up correctly resulting in crazy crashes, and NDE's last season.
7). These last 6 points I make have led to a slew of unfinished business on the track and regarding his results. He is behind the eight ball now.

James is obviously LOADED with talent and ability and heart. Over his carreer he has done things on a bike that amazes everyone. He would be the guy (if anyone) to give MC's win record a run. But now as he has worked through these last few years of inconsistency I think others have come up into the 450's that might keep that from happening. I think sometimes he spends so much time trying to counter false rumors, and answer to those who dig on him. He hints at this stuff during his interviews. So there is some distraction there. In my uneducated opinion he needs to come into the rest of his career looking to finish 3rd every time. Never read the internet. And focus on work work work. Removing his high expectations from his brain could actually free him.

Eh. What do I know?
mark_swart
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12/8/2012 12:15pm
I think the hypothesis of the original post has some merit. Look at what Reed is doing this year -- hitting those Australian races to just get out there, push the bike in race conditions, and get everything dialed. IMO James' biggest weakness has always been riding with other riders. Seems like some low-key off season stuff might help him get out some of those jitters before A1. I guess we'll see how it works out for Reed.
kongols
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12/8/2012 12:30pm
mark_swart wrote:
I think the hypothesis of the original post has some merit. Look at what Reed is doing this year -- hitting those Australian races to just...
I think the hypothesis of the original post has some merit. Look at what Reed is doing this year -- hitting those Australian races to just get out there, push the bike in race conditions, and get everything dialed. IMO James' biggest weakness has always been riding with other riders. Seems like some low-key off season stuff might help him get out some of those jitters before A1. I guess we'll see how it works out for Reed.
So you think Reed went to Australia for practice?

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