Off the cliff?

borg wrote:

I hope, and I also think that many on capital hill secretly hope, that we go off. The puny shit that these guys are talking about...

I hope, and I also think that many on capital hill secretly hope, that we go off. The puny shit that these guys are talking about wont make a dent even if they do get a deal. It's time to do something about deficits. I doubt we will ever pay down the debt, but we have to stop adding to it. If and when that happens, the Democrats will probably win the blame game but I don't really care. At least we will start getting some deficit reduction if only for 2 years. After that, the greedy, whiny bitches in this country will probably vote in an all Dem government in '14 and it will all be for naught. Taxes will go up some more and we'll get another bullshit stimulus.

APLMAN99 wrote:

Lower the income tax rates and raise the capital gains rates on everything but primary residence. Get money back into producing goods and services and out...

Lower the income tax rates and raise the capital gains rates on everything but primary residence. Get money back into producing goods and services and out of simply speculating on securities.

That's the theory behind "trickle down" economics, but as long as you pay less tax on investment income, why would you want to actually produce anything or employ anyone?

borg wrote:

I hope, and I also think that many on capital hill secretly hope, that we go off. The puny shit that these guys are talking about...

I hope, and I also think that many on capital hill secretly hope, that we go off. The puny shit that these guys are talking about wont make a dent even if they do get a deal. It's time to do something about deficits. I doubt we will ever pay down the debt, but we have to stop adding to it. If and when that happens, the Democrats will probably win the blame game but I don't really care. At least we will start getting some deficit reduction if only for 2 years. After that, the greedy, whiny bitches in this country will probably vote in an all Dem government in '14 and it will all be for naught. Taxes will go up some more and we'll get another bullshit stimulus.

WhKnuckle wrote:

Just in the numbers, if we take all the cuts and tax revenue out of the economy, we'll be in a recession. It's simple arithmetic. And...

Just in the numbers, if we take all the cuts and tax revenue out of the economy, we'll be in a recession. It's simple arithmetic. And if we go into a recession, tax revenue will drop, leaving us not only with high unemployment and negative growth, but the same deficits that we were trying to fix in the first place. Not to mention that people are going to take a huge hit to their retirement funds. 401ks aren't arranged so that you can switch investments at will, so very volatile markets are a killer to them. Doing nothing is a recipe for disaster.

WhKnuckle wrote:

Just in the numbers, if we take all the cuts and tax revenue out of the economy, we'll be in a recession. It's simple arithmetic. And...

Just in the numbers, if we take all the cuts and tax revenue out of the economy, we'll be in a recession. It's simple arithmetic. And if we go into a recession, tax revenue will drop, leaving us not only with high unemployment and negative growth, but the same deficits that we were trying to fix in the first place. Not to mention that people are going to take a huge hit to their retirement funds. 401ks aren't arranged so that you can switch investments at will, so very volatile markets are a killer to them. Doing nothing is a recipe for disaster.

borg wrote:

How long should the government borrow money to prop up our economy? Forever? It's been going on now for 30 years or so. The government has...

How long should the government borrow money to prop up our economy? Forever? It's been going on now for 30 years or so. The government has borrowed 10 trillion in the last 8 years alone. Time to suck it up. The economy will have to find it's own sea legs. And yes. There will be pain.

WhKnuckle wrote:

If we go off the cliff into recession, they'll have to keep borrowing. How does that help?

flarider wrote:

Let's just say "IF".....If the House, which is really the one negotiating since the Senate is Democratically controlled, does not come to some agreement with the...

Let's just say "IF".....If the House, which is really the one negotiating since the Senate is Democratically controlled, does not come to some agreement with the WH, all of the Bush Tax cuts go bye-bye and we are all back to Clinton-era taxation rates for all.

So, then here is your political question...Could it be said that Republicans caused or created tax increases?

Now, that said, if we do go over that cliff, who winds up in a better position afterwards? Boehner or Obama?
The President can then push for tax cuts (to middle and lower class) which the Republicans will then be in a position to accept or refuse, and if the Republicans refuse, in the next election cycle it can all be held over their heads that they refused tax cuts for 98% of Americans to protect the upper 2%....how will that play in that election cycle?

If they do go off that fiscal cliff, doesn't that actually benefit the WH and Dem party? Doesn't it put Obama in a better negotiating position where he can offer tax relief to 98% of Americans and the Republicans will be placed in a position to refuse tax cuts?

Forget your political leanings, look at it strategically from a political standpoint.

RocketLab wrote:

When are you people gonna stop swallowing the DEFICIT Kool-Aid? Turn off Fox News. Quit listening to politicians who want to slash spending in a down...

When are you people gonna stop swallowing the DEFICIT Kool-Aid? Turn off Fox News. Quit listening to politicians who want to slash spending in a down economy.. The deficit is not our big problem right now. The growth or lack of is our big problem. Fix the economy, get it humming then you can worry about the fuggin deficit. Which in fact will start to heal itself with a strong economy.

RocketLab wrote:

When are you people gonna stop swallowing the DEFICIT Kool-Aid? Turn off Fox News. Quit listening to politicians who want to slash spending in a down...

When are you people gonna stop swallowing the DEFICIT Kool-Aid? Turn off Fox News. Quit listening to politicians who want to slash spending in a down economy.. The deficit is not our big problem right now. The growth or lack of is our big problem. Fix the economy, get it humming then you can worry about the fuggin deficit. Which in fact will start to heal itself with a strong economy.

borg wrote:

When are you going to stop swallowing the politicians kool-aid that THEY can fix this economy? Show me anything that supports that asinine theory.

Stanton876 wrote:

Neither side understands what compromise is. I think we should send all these politicians back to kindergarten to learn how to get along and share. After...

Neither side understands what compromise is.

I think we should send all these politicians back to kindergarten to learn how to get along and share.

After that we can teach them about the federalist papers, the constitution, bill of rights and why it's bad to have a currency based off jack shit.

When that's done we can teach them to enforce the laws we currently have as apposed to making new ones.

Stanton876 wrote:

Neither side understands what compromise is. I think we should send all these politicians back to kindergarten to learn how to get along and share. After...

Neither side understands what compromise is.

I think we should send all these politicians back to kindergarten to learn how to get along and share.

After that we can teach them about the federalist papers, the constitution, bill of rights and why it's bad to have a currency based off jack shit.

When that's done we can teach them to enforce the laws we currently have as apposed to making new ones.

RocketLab wrote:

I don't disagree but remember Obama and the democrat's won this election. Compromise should be more on the Republican's shoulders/

JLong wrote:

You can't save your way to prosperity but you can spend your way into poverty.

Stanton876 wrote:

Neither side understands what compromise is. I think we should send all these politicians back to kindergarten to learn how to get along and share. After...

Neither side understands what compromise is.

I think we should send all these politicians back to kindergarten to learn how to get along and share.

After that we can teach them about the federalist papers, the constitution, bill of rights and why it's bad to have a currency based off jack shit.

When that's done we can teach them to enforce the laws we currently have as apposed to making new ones.

RocketLab wrote:

I don't disagree but remember Obama and the democrat's won this election. Compromise should be more on the Republican's shoulders/

Stanton876 wrote:

What did my first sentence say? As for them "winning" we don't have a king as much as people want. The president needs to work with...

What did my first sentence say? As for them "winning" we don't have a king as much as people want. The president needs to work with the house and senate and vice versa.

WhKnuckle wrote:

Well, our fearless politicians in Washington are finding more and more ways to get farther apart in the fiscal negotiations instead of coming together. Now Obama...

Well, our fearless politicians in Washington are finding more and more ways to get farther apart in the fiscal negotiations instead of coming together. Now Obama wants to lower the Estate tax exemption to 3.5 million, while Boehner insists that tax rates can't change for high earners. If we lower the estate tax exemption that much, people in the Midwest who inherit farms and stuff like that are going to get hit. And insisting that rates can't change at all, capital gins can't change at all, dividends can't change at all, really means nothing substantial can change. Neither of these guys are serious.

These guys need to get serious, lock themselves in a room and come out when they have a deal. All this negotiation through the press is going to hurt markets, which is going to hurt average Americans' 401Ks. Then EVERYBODY is going to get mad.

In '89, HW Bush locked himself in a room at Andrews Air Force Base with Democrats and made a deal. Lots of people didn't like the deal so much, but at least it made sense. These guys need to do the same thing.

WhKnuckle wrote:

Well, our fearless politicians in Washington are finding more and more ways to get farther apart in the fiscal negotiations instead of coming together. Now Obama...

Well, our fearless politicians in Washington are finding more and more ways to get farther apart in the fiscal negotiations instead of coming together. Now Obama wants to lower the Estate tax exemption to 3.5 million, while Boehner insists that tax rates can't change for high earners. If we lower the estate tax exemption that much, people in the Midwest who inherit farms and stuff like that are going to get hit. And insisting that rates can't change at all, capital gins can't change at all, dividends can't change at all, really means nothing substantial can change. Neither of these guys are serious.

These guys need to get serious, lock themselves in a room and come out when they have a deal. All this negotiation through the press is going to hurt markets, which is going to hurt average Americans' 401Ks. Then EVERYBODY is going to get mad.

In '89, HW Bush locked himself in a room at Andrews Air Force Base with Democrats and made a deal. Lots of people didn't like the deal so much, but at least it made sense. These guys need to do the same thing.

Spahnzuki wrote:

And yet, Obama chooses to go on vacation to Hawaii....perhaps to search for his birth certificate.

WhKnuckle wrote:

His family went on vacation without him because he's trying to work out this fiscal issue. You need a better news source.

Spahnzuki wrote:

You mean the fiscal issue he created with his out of control spending?