The moto- Millsaps

peelout wrote:

Anyone who thinks the parents take 2nd and 3rd mortgages out on their houses ONLY because their kid wants it, is up in the night. Mom...

Anyone who thinks the parents take 2nd and 3rd mortgages out on their houses ONLY because their kid wants it, is up in the night.

Mom and dad want it more than junior, best believe that shit.

It would take a lot more than a few wins at Chicken Licks Raceway to convince me to pull little peelout junior out of school, spend 100k plus per year, mortgage the home 3 times, and MAKE him devote his life to a sport where only 5 guys may make a great living someday.

Ps.. My post has nothing to do with the Millsaps or the episode of The Moto.

jemcee wrote:

in my opinion and that's all it is and some or most will disagree but I think the amateur racing scene is beyond ridiculous these families...

in my opinion and that's all it is and some or most will disagree but I think the amateur racing scene is beyond ridiculous these families are spending way too much money and putting so much pressure on the kids, father and mother and something has to break as evidenced by these stories and these are the kids that 'make it'.. It sounds crazy but maybe the professionalism should start when they become professionals (16 is still probably too young).. when you're a kid you're supposed to race cause it's fun not because you can make a good living out of it in ten years and pay your parents back the half a million dollars they spent to get you there

I also think that they should cut down the amount of amateur championships to maybe just Lorretta's and let the kids stay in school

again just my opinion

jemcee wrote:

in my opinion and that's all it is and some or most will disagree but I think the amateur racing scene is beyond ridiculous these families...

in my opinion and that's all it is and some or most will disagree but I think the amateur racing scene is beyond ridiculous these families are spending way too much money and putting so much pressure on the kids, father and mother and something has to break as evidenced by these stories and these are the kids that 'make it'.. It sounds crazy but maybe the professionalism should start when they become professionals (16 is still probably too young).. when you're a kid you're supposed to race cause it's fun not because you can make a good living out of it in ten years and pay your parents back the half a million dollars they spent to get you there

I also think that they should cut down the amount of amateur championships to maybe just Lorretta's and let the kids stay in school

again just my opinion

WhipMeister wrote:

I agree. I watched it and she struck me as borderline psychotic. Motoparent to the extreme and looking to spread her brand of 'love' beyond her...

I agree. I watched it and she struck me as borderline psychotic. Motoparent to the extreme and looking to spread her brand of 'love' beyond her family so she can pay the mortgage. She looked for someone to deliberately get in a fight with another kid (her own, nonetheless)? REALLY? It's really a sad commentary on values, both her's and those who pay her money to have their kids verbally abused in pursuit of the Ryan Morais, Josh Grant or Tommy Hahn dream. No offense to those guys. They've done pretty well, on the 'pro motocross scale'. But so have riders like John Dowd and Jeremy McGrath and Mike Brown and Guy Cooper, who just did it for fun and success came along. The money and the lifestyle just ain't going to be that great for 99.99% of those kids and then they have another 40-60 years to live beyond their racing careers.

Both episodes have hurt to watch.

Adamitis is knocking it out of the park with this season highlighting an aspect of MX that many would rather pretend doesn't exist.

peelout wrote:

Anyone who thinks the parents take 2nd and 3rd mortgages out on their houses ONLY because their kid wants it, is up in the night. Mom...

Anyone who thinks the parents take 2nd and 3rd mortgages out on their houses ONLY because their kid wants it, is up in the night.

Mom and dad want it more than junior, best believe that shit.

It would take a lot more than a few wins at Chicken Licks Raceway to convince me to pull little peelout junior out of school, spend 100k plus per year, mortgage the home 3 times, and MAKE him devote his life to a sport where only 5 guys may make a great living someday.

Ps.. My post has nothing to do with the Millsaps or the episode of The Moto.

peelout wrote:

i would rather not know the story, and not speculate about what happened. hopefully they both will watch the episode and it will cause a chain...

i would rather not know the story, and not speculate about what happened.

hopefully they both will watch the episode and it will cause a chain reaction of coming to terms with their differences.

i've never gone more than a week without talking to either of my parents, can't imagine how hard that would be for all parties involved.

Hank_Thrill wrote:

I'm on the side of the fence with these two dudes. One thing I think about when i see stuff like that is intrinsic vs. extrinsic...

I'm on the side of the fence with these two dudes.

One thing I think about when i see stuff like that is intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation. Somebody mentioned that not disappointing your riding coach is a powerful tool and a good motivator. That is extrinsic motivation, outside of the self. Stories of James Stewart practicing until dark when he was on a pw50 because he wanted to "beat those kids" is intrinsic, or internal motivation. Carmichael often said external pressure on him was unnecessary and didn't phase him, because he put most the pressure on himself. That too is internal motivation.

How many kids in America go out and compete in sports today and before they begin, think to themselves, "Man, I hope I do great today so I don't disappoint, or royally piss off my parents?" And how many parents show disapproval and disgust towards their kids for having a bad performance? I just finished my master's thesis, and part of my paper touched on this (but not in a way involving sports). Withdrawing love and acceptance for bad behaviors (or poor finishes) and showing warmth and approval for positive behaviors of a child is an effective way to shape behavior, but research shows it generally comes at a negative emotional cost to the child, involving lower self-worth, fluctuating self-esteem, more resentment towards parents, poorer child-parent relationships, and short lived feelings of success following accomplishments. Not every kid is born with the potential to become a professional athlete and more parents need to realize this. No matter how much money some parents are willing spend, most kids are not going to go on to be stars of the sport, so teach them valuable lessons from motocross they can apply throughout their life. Let them know they are loved for who they are, not for what place they finish. Praise efforts, and not their results. It may seem like soft advice, but the last thing you want once you realize Little Junior can't qualify for Loretta's after selling the farm is a damaged relationship.

Regarding the episode, life is way too short to be bitter over something as little as motocross.
I hope Davi and his mother work their problems out soon, because nobody is guaranteed a tomorrow.

WhKnuckle wrote:

I get tired of all this "if you try hard enough, you can win" bullshit. Of all motorsports, motocross is the most dependent on the personal...

I get tired of all this "if you try hard enough, you can win" bullshit. Of all motorsports, motocross is the most dependent on the personal talent and personality traits of each rider. Yes, Millsaps is a great rider, but he's not on the Villo/Dungey/Stewart/Reed level and never will be. I don't care how hard he tries, he'll always be a tick off of those guys' pace. There's no shame in that - I remember Kevin Windham in one of the TGO movies at the end of the season saying, "Where am I going to find 3 seconds a lap? This is me. This is the best I can do." He's right.

Riders have fundamental limitations that no amount of effort will erase. Look at Andrew Short - one of the hardest working guys, best attitude, total commitment riders in the pits. He's not going to beat Villo or Dungey consistently no matter what he does. A victory for him - or Millsaps - is a podium and maybe the odd moto win. But they just don't have all the right ingredients to win a title.

And obviously Coleen Millsaps doesn't get that. I don't care how many risks she tells these kids to take, how many times they go out and ride injured, how many times she grabs their chin piece and jerks their heads around - every moto only has one winner and 30 losers. That's arithmetic. And the same guy is going to win most of the motos - that's talent combined with personality combined with hard work, and it's a chemistry that the other riders aren't going to beat.

Stanton876 wrote:

Villo was constantly beat by 800 as an amateur. Something always overlooked when giving the rider limitations type speeches.

WhKnuckle wrote:

I get tired of all this "if you try hard enough, you can win" bullshit. Of all motorsports, motocross is the most dependent on the personal...

I get tired of all this "if you try hard enough, you can win" bullshit. Of all motorsports, motocross is the most dependent on the personal talent and personality traits of each rider. Yes, Millsaps is a great rider, but he's not on the Villo/Dungey/Stewart/Reed level and never will be. I don't care how hard he tries, he'll always be a tick off of those guys' pace. There's no shame in that - I remember Kevin Windham in one of the TGO movies at the end of the season saying, "Where am I going to find 3 seconds a lap? This is me. This is the best I can do." He's right.

Riders have fundamental limitations that no amount of effort will erase. Look at Andrew Short - one of the hardest working guys, best attitude, total commitment riders in the pits. He's not going to beat Villo or Dungey consistently no matter what he does. A victory for him - or Millsaps - is a podium and maybe the odd moto win. But they just don't have all the right ingredients to win a title.

And obviously Coleen Millsaps doesn't get that. I don't care how many risks she tells these kids to take, how many times they go out and ride injured, how many times she grabs their chin piece and jerks their heads around - every moto only has one winner and 30 losers. That's arithmetic. And the same guy is going to win most of the motos - that's talent combined with personality combined with hard work, and it's a chemistry that the other riders aren't going to beat.

Stanton876 wrote:

Villo was constantly beat by 800 as an amateur. Something always overlooked when giving the rider limitations type speeches.

WhKnuckle wrote:

Villo was also consistently younger as an amateur. When you watch kids grow up, it's comical that people think of a 14 year old kid as...

Villo was also consistently younger as an amateur. When you watch kids grow up, it's comical that people think of a 14 year old kid as a fully developed adult. Some kids grow up a little faster, others a little slower. Motocross and gymnastics are the only two sports I can think of that treat 13 to 16 year old children as if they were adult, professional athletes and place the entire family's fortunes on their shoulders. It's pathetic and sick.

This sport needs to grow a pair and tell riders that they can't turn pro until they're 18 and that's all there is to it. Quit wimping out about it. Give these CHILDREN a chance to grow up at some sort of normal pace. And if you want a textbook example of how bad things go with acclaimed amateur "next greatest thing" riders' lives, you don't have to look any farther than the rider you mentioned. Mike Alessi was the can't-miss rider of the decade, and I'll bet he's barely making a living in the sport today.

I remember one National in '01 when David Bailey talked about that. He said he thought riders would actually become better at their sport if they started a little later. He said, "I'm getting a little tired of seeing 5 year olds riding out of semis at Loretta's".

Stanton876 wrote:

Villo was constantly beat by 800 as an amateur. Something always overlooked when giving the rider limitations type speeches.

WhKnuckle wrote:

Villo was also consistently younger as an amateur. When you watch kids grow up, it's comical that people think of a 14 year old kid as...

Villo was also consistently younger as an amateur. When you watch kids grow up, it's comical that people think of a 14 year old kid as a fully developed adult. Some kids grow up a little faster, others a little slower. Motocross and gymnastics are the only two sports I can think of that treat 13 to 16 year old children as if they were adult, professional athletes and place the entire family's fortunes on their shoulders. It's pathetic and sick.

This sport needs to grow a pair and tell riders that they can't turn pro until they're 18 and that's all there is to it. Quit wimping out about it. Give these CHILDREN a chance to grow up at some sort of normal pace. And if you want a textbook example of how bad things go with acclaimed amateur "next greatest thing" riders' lives, you don't have to look any farther than the rider you mentioned. Mike Alessi was the can't-miss rider of the decade, and I'll bet he's barely making a living in the sport today.

I remember one National in '01 when David Bailey talked about that. He said he thought riders would actually become better at their sport if they started a little later. He said, "I'm getting a little tired of seeing 5 year olds riding out of semis at Loretta's".

newmann wrote:

[i]when David Bailey talked about that. He said he thought riders would actually become better at their sport if they started a little later. He said...

when David Bailey talked about that. He said he thought riders would actually become better at their sport if they started a little later. He said, "I'm getting a little tired of seeing 5 year olds riding out of semis at Loretta's".

If there wasn't so much money poured into the am's by the OEM's, maybe there would be some money left for the pro's to make a decent living off of. And it might straighten out some of the crazed mini parents if they aren't fighting for factory support for their 7 year old. Depending on your kid to win contingency so you can afford to pay the house note AND get to the next race is laughable. If you can't afford to make the race, maybe your ass shouldn't be there. I remember a whole lot of pissing and moaning back around 09 when Suzuki dropped the amateur welfare program. Like taking away their foodstamps and five of little Johnny's stock and mod practice bikes. Instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to help promote the sales of ten thousand dirtbikes, why not just drop the price of the bikes by a grand?

MX558 wrote:

If your kid can't take a little ass chewing then they should not be in sports period. That shit is tame compared to what junior high...

If your kid can't take a little ass chewing then they should not be in sports period. That shit is tame compared to what junior high and high school football players go through.