After watching the moto:inside the outoors..

ocscottie
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11/13/2012 1:48pm
lostboy819 wrote:
A riders union will never happen because the best riders have no reason to join and the riders will never all agree not to race. Everyone...
A riders union will never happen because the best riders have no reason to join and the riders will never all agree not to race. Everyone said they would not race at Vegas, McGrath sat it out and guess what Jeff Emig sneaks up and gets his first SX win even after he said he would not race. The only thing more cut throat than pro racing is the pro racers themselves.
..and there is one of the biggest problems, (as why something like my above post will NEVER work) spot on Ed.
11/13/2012 1:49pm
Motodave15 wrote:
So under your thinking... People like construction worker's... (all branches included) should not have a union? To guarantee wages? To me no matter what you are...
So under your thinking... People like construction worker's... (all branches included) should not have a union? To guarantee
wages?

To me no matter what you are doing. When the Risk Goes up (no matter if its a sport or working in a cave) you should be guaranteed a decent workable living wage... people who have no risk as in politicians should get paid less.
Swing and a miss..... You do realize it's the year 2012. Unions are also a business and they also make their money on the backs of their employees and don't guarantee shit.
11/13/2012 1:53pm
lostboy819 wrote:
A riders union will never happen because the best riders have no reason to join and the riders will never all agree not to race. Everyone...
A riders union will never happen because the best riders have no reason to join and the riders will never all agree not to race. Everyone said they would not race at Vegas, McGrath sat it out and guess what Jeff Emig sneaks up and gets his first SX win even after he said he would not race. The only thing more cut throat than pro racing is the pro racers themselves.
ocscottie wrote:
..and there is one of the biggest problems, (as why something like my above post will NEVER work) spot on Ed.
And amateur racing is even more cut throat and back stabbing than the prosWink
11/13/2012 2:01pm
The main difference between mx and other sports is that the other sport have a TONS of athletes pursuing them. The more athletes the more fans, apparel, video games, food at the games.

Dont get me wrong a supercross event gets packed but its no where near the size of a d1 college football or pro football game. Those sports survive due to numbers, mx doesnt have the numbers unfortunetly..

The Shop

11/13/2012 2:11pm
I'm sorry but your comparisons don't work for me. A lot of money is being made on the backs of riders and pretending that it's O.K...
I'm sorry but your comparisons don't work for me. A lot of money is being made on the backs of riders and pretending that it's O.K. is NONSENSE! That is my opinion and it's not going to change..

It's the money that's being made, that NOT going to the people that put on the show! Again, RIDERS UNION!!

I dislike Unions personally but leaving the financial decisions to a "suit" is like giving a politician FREE REIGN!
This will be my last reply then i will move on...... A riders union will never happen. The top guys won't share the wealth and why...
This will be my last reply then i will move on......


A riders union will never happen. The top guys won't share the wealth and why should they....?

Guy's like DC don't wear suit's.......

All companies are made on the backs of their employees, why should Sx/Mx be any different....? Oh yeah that's right because they get paralzed.....lol

The problem with your opinion is that it's based on your personal feelings and not reality.

And for the most part politicians do have free reign.

Remember, " Passion is a good thing until you're blinded by it "..... I just made that shit up... but you can use it. mail me a royalty if you use it.
Spot on in everyone of your posts on this subject. Some of these guys think that these guys racing HAVE to race. Well with their education levels and people skills they probably do but you live with the consequences of your choices or in a lot of racers' cases their parents' choices.
11/13/2012 2:17pm
newmann wrote:
Very short window of opportunity in this sport. Grinds up, spits out. RC kept it real with a old Chevrolet truck and parents who didn't splurge...
Very short window of opportunity in this sport. Grinds up, spits out. RC kept it real with a old Chevrolet truck and parents who didn't splurge. Anyone who gets caught up in the rock star mode in this sport is setting themselves up for future disappointment.

Enter Ryan Dungey.....head screwed on straight. Everybody likes to pile on the Dunge, but he won't ever be seen crying on national tv about being broke after being on top.
There are many Ryan Dungey's out there in motocross. They are the ones who choose to hang up the boots and go become an electrician, start a business or get a job that they are content with living.


Look at Broc Hepler. Working class parents. Tons of talent as a rider. Made sure he didn't DROP OUT of school, he obtained his GED early. Quit racing the pro scene, went to college. Now races for fun when he can. IE At Western Reserve MC last weekend in a GP event they put on.


These riders need to get off the MX-Cocaine. Step away from using every day to only using once in a while to keep their fix after they come home from a job that they can in their own eyes make a sustainable income. (for some people its 50,000 a year, others its Millions)

Bottom line is: You have to know when to step away from something that is destroying you. The suits will deal, the riders will use. At the end of the day whose the junkie? The Dealer or the User?

GET A JOB. BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW WHEN YOUR JOB ISN'T PAYING YOU ENOUGH, AND FIND ANOTHER.
C.Worthy
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11/13/2012 2:38pm
Motodave15 wrote:
Wow, wow, wow... Damn i did not know this sport is this brutal money wise. I always had a hunch but wtf seriously! I'm glad this...
Wow, wow, wow... Damn i did not know this sport is this brutal money wise. I always had a hunch but wtf seriously!
I'm glad this show is like documentary form and they are showing the harsh reality of it. The side that never gets talked about!



On a plus side the sand track grant rides is right of the 15 freeway... nice little fun spot been there a couple of times.



And even though i don't have kids yet.. But when i do, they are not racing lol. (Unless hes scrubbing at like 4)


@oscottie- yea 100 mil to ride the bench, I'll take it lol. But it's pretty absurd when you think about it. I think baseball athletes should earn no more than 150,000 a year max! Baseball is the laziest sport by far.
That spot he's at looks familiar and I've been somewhere that looks real similar. Is it near fontana?
Motodave15
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11/13/2012 2:40pm
Spot on in everyone of your posts on this subject. Some of these guys think that these guys racing HAVE to race. Well with their education...
Spot on in everyone of your posts on this subject. Some of these guys think that these guys racing HAVE to race. Well with their education levels and people skills they probably do but you live with the consequences of your choices or in a lot of racers' cases their parents' choices.
That's the saddest part about it.

The riders are thrown into this position with no say until there like 15.

I'm going to say it all starts with PARENT EDUCATION!! not the riders, they have been riding since they were like 4 yrs old.. and when your that small you love motocross so of course your going to tell your parents you want to continue racing.
shit even when your in your mid teens you still want to continue what you love.

It's in all honesty its the parents gamble on their kids life, and to me in my eyes that is sad.
Motodave15
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11/13/2012 2:42pm
C.Worthy wrote:
That spot he's at looks familiar and I've been somewhere that looks real similar. Is it near fontana?
sure is, its off of 3rd street i believe.
kijen
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11/13/2012 2:45pm
newmann wrote:
Very short window of opportunity in this sport. Grinds up, spits out. RC kept it real with a old Chevrolet truck and parents who didn't splurge...
Very short window of opportunity in this sport. Grinds up, spits out. RC kept it real with a old Chevrolet truck and parents who didn't splurge. Anyone who gets caught up in the rock star mode in this sport is setting themselves up for future disappointment.

Enter Ryan Dungey.....head screwed on straight. Everybody likes to pile on the Dunge, but he won't ever be seen crying on national tv about being broke after being on top.
There are many Ryan Dungey's out there in motocross. They are the ones who choose to hang up the boots and go become an electrician, start...
There are many Ryan Dungey's out there in motocross. They are the ones who choose to hang up the boots and go become an electrician, start a business or get a job that they are content with living.


Look at Broc Hepler. Working class parents. Tons of talent as a rider. Made sure he didn't DROP OUT of school, he obtained his GED early. Quit racing the pro scene, went to college. Now races for fun when he can. IE At Western Reserve MC last weekend in a GP event they put on.


These riders need to get off the MX-Cocaine. Step away from using every day to only using once in a while to keep their fix after they come home from a job that they can in their own eyes make a sustainable income. (for some people its 50,000 a year, others its Millions)

Bottom line is: You have to know when to step away from something that is destroying you. The suits will deal, the riders will use. At the end of the day whose the junkie? The Dealer or the User?

GET A JOB. BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW WHEN YOUR JOB ISN'T PAYING YOU ENOUGH, AND FIND ANOTHER.
sad, but your right, I'm no expert but it would seem the business model would ensure enough justification (i.e. money) for more riders to make a living to ensure sustainment of the business. how would the sport survive at the pro level, if all but the top 3 were smart enough to go pursue a better paying job? In other sports they have a commissioner who is responsible for growing or managing the sport, MX seems a little disorganized, everybody is on their own, both racers and the industry itself.
DrSweden
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11/13/2012 2:46pm
lostboy819 wrote:
A riders union will never happen because the best riders have no reason to join and the riders will never all agree not to race. Everyone...
A riders union will never happen because the best riders have no reason to join and the riders will never all agree not to race. Everyone said they would not race at Vegas, McGrath sat it out and guess what Jeff Emig sneaks up and gets his first SX win even after he said he would not race. The only thing more cut throat than pro racing is the pro racers themselves.
Totally disagree. The same argument could be used towards any union, the best workers will newer be sick, or be threatened to be sacked ect. There's always some imperfection, but the point with a union is not black and white as in not to race, or race and have blackfeet people like Emig to prosper, or Osborne in Mexico.

I'm totally confident, that one needs competition as in power, and that despite being the little guy as a union might be, it will always have some leverage, and maybe some dumbass present pro will figure that one day, he might be that guy in need of help.

I agree that the system is imperfect, and it's newer in balance, but it's the only solution.
velocitygear
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11/13/2012 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 11/13/2012 3:31pm
As you said politicians have free reign...

Look what that's done to the USA..

If you truly love the sport you would look for ways to solve the problem rather than condone greed and business as usual ethics.

It's a solvable problem and pretending otherwise is only hurting our sport

Just because that's the way it is doesn't mean that's the way it should be.

Oh, and I can't recall the LAST TIME Walmart Employees packed a stadium! This Industry exists because of the riders and that is where I see fault!

BECAUSE of ALL of the riders not just the top 5
nealbo129
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11/13/2012 4:17pm
As you said politicians have free reign... Look what that's done to the USA.. If you truly love the sport you would look for ways to...
As you said politicians have free reign...

Look what that's done to the USA..

If you truly love the sport you would look for ways to solve the problem rather than condone greed and business as usual ethics.

It's a solvable problem and pretending otherwise is only hurting our sport

Just because that's the way it is doesn't mean that's the way it should be.

Oh, and I can't recall the LAST TIME Walmart Employees packed a stadium! This Industry exists because of the riders and that is where I see fault!

BECAUSE of ALL of the riders not just the top 5
So are you saying up the pay for riders? or split it more evenly? Because if you up the pay for riders where is the money going to come from? and splitting it up more evenly just flat out won't work
velocitygear
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11/13/2012 4:30pm
To answer that question you would have to know where all the money is going. Clearly money is being made, but it's a free for all and relying on executives to do the right thing, will ensure it never happens..
normanmx
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11/13/2012 4:44pm
C mon!!! please someone air this on youtube or someplace for us the less fortunate...please
dkg
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11/13/2012 4:58pm
I suspect that the actual profit margin on the race side of things isn't as profitable as many on here wish. I've heard of some of the outdoor nationals even being operated at or near breakeven. So, where is the money going to come from and how would a union solve this problem?

Realistically, ticket prces are at or near max the market will bare. A union is not going to be able to deal with distribution or redistribution of payments for promotional efforts/advertising that the successful riders receive. (Be realistic, the highly paid riders are compensated because of the ability to win races or podium for that matter. I doubt we would see many manufacturers or advertising groups willing the kick in additional funds to be divided amongst other racers. Where's the upside for doing so?) Given the recent round of collapse of racing teams, it is pretty clear that the teams themselves are not rolling in cash.

A good example of some of the difficulties in the economics of the situation include the example of ticket prices in many professional sports. Frankly, they have reached a level where the idea of a family of four attending an NFL games is unrealtistic in many cases. How many here would go to a SX event if the tickets were $150 a seat so that there was a money pool to be divided amongst all the racers? Unlike most professional sports, SX/MX doesn't have the proverbial cash cow of television licensing rights generating a pool that can be used to guarantee minimum compensation, etc. (Try a google search on the subject). So again, I pose the question, where is the money pot that is going to be distributed? And how is a union the answer to dividing something that just isn't there?
11/13/2012 5:20pm
dkg wrote:
I suspect that the actual profit margin on the race side of things isn't as profitable as many on here wish. I've heard of some of...
I suspect that the actual profit margin on the race side of things isn't as profitable as many on here wish. I've heard of some of the outdoor nationals even being operated at or near breakeven. So, where is the money going to come from and how would a union solve this problem?

Realistically, ticket prces are at or near max the market will bare. A union is not going to be able to deal with distribution or redistribution of payments for promotional efforts/advertising that the successful riders receive. (Be realistic, the highly paid riders are compensated because of the ability to win races or podium for that matter. I doubt we would see many manufacturers or advertising groups willing the kick in additional funds to be divided amongst other racers. Where's the upside for doing so?) Given the recent round of collapse of racing teams, it is pretty clear that the teams themselves are not rolling in cash.

A good example of some of the difficulties in the economics of the situation include the example of ticket prices in many professional sports. Frankly, they have reached a level where the idea of a family of four attending an NFL games is unrealtistic in many cases. How many here would go to a SX event if the tickets were $150 a seat so that there was a money pool to be divided amongst all the racers? Unlike most professional sports, SX/MX doesn't have the proverbial cash cow of television licensing rights generating a pool that can be used to guarantee minimum compensation, etc. (Try a google search on the subject). So again, I pose the question, where is the money pot that is going to be distributed? And how is a union the answer to dividing something that just isn't there?
Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out.
11/13/2012 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/13/2012 6:03pm
Walter wrote:
I don't get all of the angst in this thread directed at the "industry." The great divide between the haves and the have nots and the...
I don't get all of the angst in this thread directed at the "industry." The great divide between the haves and the have nots and the sometimes short earning life of a participant in MX is no different from many other businesses, professions, and other sports. If you can deliver as a designer, ad acct mgr, salesman, ball player, etc., you can get paid very handsomely. If you do not, you are shown the door.

The reality is that there are riders who have made huge money over the years...and many who have not. No different than in many other fields of endeavor.

The industry has also provided a fine living for many folks who are not riders both in racing and in the related fields.

The problems associated with parents pushing their kids or later taking their money and kids without adequate preparation, education and social skills-wise, for life after MX are not the fault of the industry and are not endemic solely to this sport.

The reality is that in MX, as is the case in many other sports and professions, a tiny percentage of those who try it on for size hit the top wrung...and there is nothing wrong with that...it is just the way life is. Folks make choices and take their shot.

(I do not work in the motorcycle industry)
"The great divide between the haves and the have nots and the sometimes short earning life of a participant in MX is no different from many...
"The great divide between the haves and the have nots and the sometimes short earning life of a participant in MX is no different from many other businesses, professions, and other sports. If you can deliver as a designer, ad acct mgr, salesman, ball player, etc."

Compare the top 20 ball players to the top 20 motocross guys, then you'll see the DIVIDE!! Part of the issue is in regard to the danger of the sport, OUR athletes do not get what they deserve in regard to compensation, unless you only count the "best".

Do you think the people making money off of supercross (whoever that may be) are going hungry. The "suits" aren't hurting, I assure you...
Compare the amount of people that watch the top 20 ball players compared to MX racing and you get the answer.
velocitygear
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11/13/2012 6:09pm
"Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out. "

I'm sure a few on this board would see that as justified! Unreal...
11/13/2012 6:10pm Edited Date/Time 11/13/2012 6:13pm
"Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out. " I'm sure a few on this board...
"Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out. "

I'm sure a few on this board would see that as justified! Unreal...
And how much a year do they put into running the series? How much is not enough and how much is to much to make? Also how many people is that 13 mill divided between?
Hando
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11/13/2012 6:13pm
"Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out. " I'm sure a few on this board...
"Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out. "

I'm sure a few on this board would see that as justified! Unreal...
Profits above people, DUR!!
11/13/2012 6:14pm
Make money bad! Go broke good! That's about all I get from people complaining about the OWNERS of the series making money.
dkg
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11/13/2012 6:20pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out.
Before or after felds internal costs?
11/13/2012 6:23pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out.
dkg wrote:
Before or after felds internal costs?
Or taxes?
haydos25
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11/13/2012 6:41pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Feld puts 13 million a year into their pockets every supercross season, they could afford to help out.
Where'd you get that figure from? Not saying you're wrong but im just supicious of figures quoted with know proof is all

The problem with saying the promoters, be they Feld, MX sports, youthstream or whoever, are making money and they should swallow the pill and give back to the entertainers is, what incentive is there for them to do that? Take away the profit from these companies and they take their ball and go home. They need to make money or they're not interested, simple as that. Racers are showing up and entering their events right now, they have full grids and are still turning riders away and holding qualifying races. How much better would the racing for the lead be if 38th place in the nats got a couple of grand? Probably exactly the same imo.

I agree that the racers don't get enough money for the risk they put out. However that doesnt magically make more money available. The key is to grow the pie, sure the big fish are gonna get more money as this happens, thats only natural, people wanna follow the best. But it will have a trickle down effect in terms of more sponsorship money, more teams, more paid rides, etc. etc.

Maybe people need to realise that running around in 30th outdoors, no matter how impressive that is to me, isnt ever gonna cut it if you want to make a living and retire off riding dirt bikes. The sooner people realise this and re-assess their choices the less heartbreaking stories we're going to hear.
dkg
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11/13/2012 7:15pm Edited Date/Time 11/13/2012 7:17pm
Motodave15 wrote:
That's the saddest part about it. The riders are thrown into this position with no say until there like 15. I'm going to say it all...
That's the saddest part about it.

The riders are thrown into this position with no say until there like 15.

I'm going to say it all starts with PARENT EDUCATION!! not the riders, they have been riding since they were like 4 yrs old.. and when your that small you love motocross so of course your going to tell your parents you want to continue racing.
shit even when your in your mid teens you still want to continue what you love.

It's in all honesty its the parents gamble on their kids life, and to me in my eyes that is sad.
So much truth there. I simply can't fathom making a decision to race to the exclusion of basic fundamental education. I am not talking about everyone going to college, but, come on any parent that promotes racing to the exclusion of a basic high school education needs to seriously reevaluate things. The success rate is just too speculative to not want your child to at least complete a high school level curriculum.

Damn, I feel for Grant not only does she apparently steal his money, but, also gave him an incredibly tough hill to climb by allowing him to quit school at the 9th grade. I was at a complete loss for words when I heard his story. At least it seems he now has a good wife by his side.
observer
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11/13/2012 7:34pm
Gettting back to Josh Grants situation....I just thought it was particularly sad that his mom took earnings that Josh had made in the sport. Felt so bad for the guy. I'd be curious to know what his dad would have to say about that deal. I recall seeing him on last years episodes, and he seemed pretty passionate about Joshs racing.

Boy this sport's sure changed a lot from back in the day....man.
FreshTopEnd
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11/13/2012 7:47pm
Would love to see more money for more people, but there will always be tension between that and keeping the gate open to more privateers to get to take a shot (US Outdoors) rather than limiting the field (SX and GPs).

There's also the tension we saw a lot over the summer about bitching about TV and wanting live internet for the core fans regardless of whether it. Guys aren't going to make more money at all levels unless we get more outside money in to support the talent and not end up with untalented buy in riders.
86init
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11/13/2012 7:52pm
Motodave15 wrote:
That's the saddest part about it. The riders are thrown into this position with no say until there like 15. I'm going to say it all...
That's the saddest part about it.

The riders are thrown into this position with no say until there like 15.

I'm going to say it all starts with PARENT EDUCATION!! not the riders, they have been riding since they were like 4 yrs old.. and when your that small you love motocross so of course your going to tell your parents you want to continue racing.
shit even when your in your mid teens you still want to continue what you love.

It's in all honesty its the parents gamble on their kids life, and to me in my eyes that is sad.
dkg wrote:
So much truth there. I simply can't fathom making a decision to race to the exclusion of basic fundamental education. I am not talking about everyone...
So much truth there. I simply can't fathom making a decision to race to the exclusion of basic fundamental education. I am not talking about everyone going to college, but, come on any parent that promotes racing to the exclusion of a basic high school education needs to seriously reevaluate things. The success rate is just too speculative to not want your child to at least complete a high school level curriculum.

Damn, I feel for Grant not only does she apparently steal his money, but, also gave him an incredibly tough hill to climb by allowing him to quit school at the 9th grade. I was at a complete loss for words when I heard his story. At least it seems he now has a good wife by his side.
She didn't allow josh to quit school, I was the one who decided for josh to be home schooled. You do not know the whole story. Josh said he is going to write a book about it, and the story is not over yet, his best years are yet to come. 2013

Mike Grant
mdub45
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11/13/2012 7:53pm
racerx217 wrote:
kinda off track but, i downloaded the torrent , downloaded vuze player and all i get is sound no video, what did i do wrong?
kinda off track but, i downloaded the torrent , downloaded vuze player and all i get is sound no video, what did i do wrong?
Open it with quicktime, the media player associated with iTunes

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