Until this happens anything we mention is BS

RACERX69
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RACERX69 9/12/2012 7:32pm
9/12/2012 7:32pm
mccread wrote:
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US...
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US. Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy.

What you mean is Americans struggle outside their own country a lot more than people from other countries, because they are more insulated, hence why they don't want to ride the World championsip.
I meant exactly what I said!! Please don't put words in my mouth. Thank you!
RACERX69
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RACERX69 9/12/2012 7:36pm
9/12/2012 7:36pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 7:38pm
mccread wrote:
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US...
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US. Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy.

What you mean is Americans struggle outside their own country a lot more than people from other countries, because they are more insulated, hence why they don't want to ride the World championsip.
RACERX69 wrote:
I meant exactly what I said!! Please don't put words in my mouth. Thank you!
Wink
Lifesarutt64 9/12/2012 7:44pm
9/12/2012 7:44pm
RACERX69 wrote:
It has NOTHING to do with money and everything to do with wanting to be/beat the best in the world. As Regis said earlier, after winning...
It has NOTHING to do with money and everything to do with wanting to be/beat the best in the world. As Regis said earlier, after winning in the US there is nothing left to prove.
IMO it is mainly about money & I don't blame them for that, it is how they make a living & MX has a small window of time, in most cases, to make money.
You can not tell me that the majority of Americans would not be stoked to see a fellow American winning races & championships overseas.
Whitey
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Whitey 9/12/2012 9:16pm
9/12/2012 9:16pm
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish.

When you win the 450 Class in the USA you are the baddest mother fucker on a dirt scooter period!

The only real question is who is badder, the SX Champion or the MX Champion, but that is a debate for a different day.

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Whoops_Blitzer 9/12/2012 11:19pm
9/12/2012 11:19pm
Whitey wrote:
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish. When you win the 450 Class in the USA...
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish.

When you win the 450 Class in the USA you are the baddest mother fucker on a dirt scooter period!

The only real question is who is badder, the SX Champion or the MX Champion, but that is a debate for a different day.
Most would probably say the mx champion...but there's gotta be a reason 24-0 has happened thrice but 16/17-0 hasn't even happened once.

Oh. Sorry. We can do this tomorrow.
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CR250Rider 9/12/2012 11:31pm
9/12/2012 11:31pm
Whitey wrote:
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish. When you win the 450 Class in the USA...
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish.

When you win the 450 Class in the USA you are the baddest mother fucker on a dirt scooter period!

The only real question is who is badder, the SX Champion or the MX Champion, but that is a debate for a different day.
yes, and with Sx being the sprint race, MX the endurance race


the best are here in the USA, to argue that is just silly
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jamma10 9/13/2012 1:21am
9/13/2012 1:21am
The best are spread between BOTH series, to argue anything else is just silly.
TripleDigit 9/13/2012 1:37am
9/13/2012 1:37am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2012 1:41am
Grieby54 wrote:
[i]"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."[/i] And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA...
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."

And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA or GP track...

I'm glad that you made it to Europe, Geoff. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to claim you. Now, if you could just take a handful of these other idiots with you...
mxgeoff wrote:
I don't think any European seriously thinks America haven't earnt their victories in MXoN. Sometimes they have been lucky, but they have deserved all their success...
I don't think any European seriously thinks America haven't earnt their victories in MXoN. Sometimes they have been lucky, but they have deserved all their success. If you can find me one European who doesn't agree with that I will be surprised.

I think what gets lost in the translation is that American's assume the GP riders are not the equal of the American riders and that is totally not true.

Geoff
Regis wrote:
This thread is 5 pages and I am sure I will not get an answer, but here it goes..... When rider from Europe makes the jump...
This thread is 5 pages and I am sure I will not get an answer, but here it goes.....

When rider from Europe makes the jump into the AMA series the question is always inevitably asked by some media outlet, "which series has the fastest riders, what's the difference?" and the answer is always, depth of field, pace of the riders and not having ridden the tracks or being as used to them. When Zach comes back next year I am sure his answers will be nearly the same. (I'm guessing)

Geoff, why don't you believe the very riders that answer these questions? Do you not read these interviews or see these riders who in years passed dominate world championships come here and not do as well? We Americans feel the way we do because we see more often times then not world champions or European riders just simply not do as well here wether they are champions or 5th-15th place guys. On the flip side, we are used to having people who are struggling over here go to europe to salvage a career or try to get some more momentum, WE NEVER LOSE OUR CHAMPIONS TO EUROPE. Why? These guys are competitors right? You think they are afraid? They want to be the best in the world, the riders know that if you win a series in America. There is nothing else to prove.

The transition for an American to go to Europe is a lot harder than for a European to come to America. In most cases, the Europeans that come this way are world champions (or top riders) with a large contract and can bring an entourage (family, GF, wife) of people. They speak English (pretty much the universal language) and don't have to worry about multiple languages and for food, well Everybody likes In-N-Out.

Typically and American that goes to Europe is going there because he can't get anything here, which means it is going to be on a shoe string budget, which means no family, no friends...... Language barriers, food and traveling to all the different countries is a lot tougher then going across America where everything is the same. However, there are instances where a few come back, stronger and faster than before. (Brown, Osbourne, Hughes and others)

Whatever, this is a lame argument. The facts seem to all be there. History always seems to repeat itself. It is what it is.
TWe only lose our Champions from the feeder class,MX2,they usually all very young too,Roczen,Musquin,Reed etc,and relatively early on in their careers. They nearly always go for better contracts and the lure of more $$$.young enough to race SX too,ironically most seem to get injured in that area too in the learning curve,the top MX1 guys here just don't go,

Townley is an exception,he did a season here on a bigger bike before going over and going at it against Villopoto all season long,Roczen and Musquin would surely have done better in many other years too,this season has possibly the best 250 class in history

The opposite top American AMA Lites just wouldn't come here,they have a superb series in their own backyard,where they grew up,are earning great $$$ with great contracts with the prospect of more to come

Ask the guys that have come here how tough it is,Brown,Hughes etc and more

recently Osborne,Albertson and Leib have tried GPs,Albee's results back home show the 450 comparisons,while the others have started out on privateer teams and progressed,how they would have done if they stayed home is unknown,although Zach had an impressive SX return this year,the guy has obviously improved in the 4 years or so he's been here,being based in England must have helped

Is agree that the cultural transition for an American to race over here would probably be tougher than GP rider doing the opposite but we havn't seen a Champ come to show the comparison yet.One thing's for sure,homesickness happens,Roczen just had his Mother with him for a long time,everything is new in another country,food,surroundings,people,habitat etc,its got to be tough for any teenager either way

The other top guys who havn't gone out of the lower class,MX2 etc and stayed here and moved up are all great riders,From Desalle,Cairoli,Phillipaerts, Ramon and co of the current crop,to Everts,Beirer,Smets,Bolley,Demaria,Chiodi Puzar etc of previos year

One thing though,credit to Dungey by coming over in the one off MXdN races and dealing with it well,they are ultra specil talents,Baggett had a culture shock and Weimer struggled too in Recent years

Good is good,either side,its tough to make a change,people handle things differently too,credit where credit is due,but respect is too
mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 9/13/2012 2:28am
9/13/2012 2:28am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2012 2:32am
Whitey wrote:
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish. When you win the 450 Class in the USA...
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish.

When you win the 450 Class in the USA you are the baddest mother fucker on a dirt scooter period!

The only real question is who is badder, the SX Champion or the MX Champion, but that is a debate for a different day.
The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter might just get his ass handed to him in Lommel in two weeks. Think about that if it happens and then you might change your attitude. The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter has every chance to win in Lommel, but just as good a chance of getting beaten by not one World Champion, but two.
mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 9/13/2012 2:39am
9/13/2012 2:39am
mxgeoff wrote:
I don't think any European seriously thinks America haven't earnt their victories in MXoN. Sometimes they have been lucky, but they have deserved all their success...
I don't think any European seriously thinks America haven't earnt their victories in MXoN. Sometimes they have been lucky, but they have deserved all their success. If you can find me one European who doesn't agree with that I will be surprised.

I think what gets lost in the translation is that American's assume the GP riders are not the equal of the American riders and that is totally not true.

Geoff
Regis wrote:
This thread is 5 pages and I am sure I will not get an answer, but here it goes..... When rider from Europe makes the jump...
This thread is 5 pages and I am sure I will not get an answer, but here it goes.....

When rider from Europe makes the jump into the AMA series the question is always inevitably asked by some media outlet, "which series has the fastest riders, what's the difference?" and the answer is always, depth of field, pace of the riders and not having ridden the tracks or being as used to them. When Zach comes back next year I am sure his answers will be nearly the same. (I'm guessing)

Geoff, why don't you believe the very riders that answer these questions? Do you not read these interviews or see these riders who in years passed dominate world championships come here and not do as well? We Americans feel the way we do because we see more often times then not world champions or European riders just simply not do as well here wether they are champions or 5th-15th place guys. On the flip side, we are used to having people who are struggling over here go to europe to salvage a career or try to get some more momentum, WE NEVER LOSE OUR CHAMPIONS TO EUROPE. Why? These guys are competitors right? You think they are afraid? They want to be the best in the world, the riders know that if you win a series in America. There is nothing else to prove.

The transition for an American to go to Europe is a lot harder than for a European to come to America. In most cases, the Europeans that come this way are world champions (or top riders) with a large contract and can bring an entourage (family, GF, wife) of people. They speak English (pretty much the universal language) and don't have to worry about multiple languages and for food, well Everybody likes In-N-Out.

Typically and American that goes to Europe is going there because he can't get anything here, which means it is going to be on a shoe string budget, which means no family, no friends...... Language barriers, food and traveling to all the different countries is a lot tougher then going across America where everything is the same. However, there are instances where a few come back, stronger and faster than before. (Brown, Osbourne, Hughes and others)

Whatever, this is a lame argument. The facts seem to all be there. History always seems to repeat itself. It is what it is.
TripleDigit wrote:
TWe only lose our Champions from the feeder class,MX2,they usually all very young too,Roczen,Musquin,Reed etc,and relatively early on in their careers. They nearly always go for...
TWe only lose our Champions from the feeder class,MX2,they usually all very young too,Roczen,Musquin,Reed etc,and relatively early on in their careers. They nearly always go for better contracts and the lure of more $$$.young enough to race SX too,ironically most seem to get injured in that area too in the learning curve,the top MX1 guys here just don't go,

Townley is an exception,he did a season here on a bigger bike before going over and going at it against Villopoto all season long,Roczen and Musquin would surely have done better in many other years too,this season has possibly the best 250 class in history

The opposite top American AMA Lites just wouldn't come here,they have a superb series in their own backyard,where they grew up,are earning great $$$ with great contracts with the prospect of more to come

Ask the guys that have come here how tough it is,Brown,Hughes etc and more

recently Osborne,Albertson and Leib have tried GPs,Albee's results back home show the 450 comparisons,while the others have started out on privateer teams and progressed,how they would have done if they stayed home is unknown,although Zach had an impressive SX return this year,the guy has obviously improved in the 4 years or so he's been here,being based in England must have helped

Is agree that the cultural transition for an American to race over here would probably be tougher than GP rider doing the opposite but we havn't seen a Champ come to show the comparison yet.One thing's for sure,homesickness happens,Roczen just had his Mother with him for a long time,everything is new in another country,food,surroundings,people,habitat etc,its got to be tough for any teenager either way

The other top guys who havn't gone out of the lower class,MX2 etc and stayed here and moved up are all great riders,From Desalle,Cairoli,Phillipaerts, Ramon and co of the current crop,to Everts,Beirer,Smets,Bolley,Demaria,Chiodi Puzar etc of previos year

One thing though,credit to Dungey by coming over in the one off MXdN races and dealing with it well,they are ultra specil talents,Baggett had a culture shock and Weimer struggled too in Recent years

Good is good,either side,its tough to make a change,people handle things differently too,credit where credit is due,but respect is too
And to add to that, I don't think there are too many GP riders interested in living in America at the moment, the whole dream of going to USA has changed.

Maybe the odd French kid, but an Italian, Dutchman or just about all the others, it's not the lifestyle they are looking for. I would be surprised if Herlings ever went there full time, he's too euro.

Had this discussion with DC late last year and he assured me that Herlings and Paulin were heading to America in 2013, the only euro rider possibly going is Pourcel, but that has to be a huge question mark.

Whatever happens both series are awesome and this is the hottest topic, otherwise 150 people wouldn't reply. Us versus them, in all sports is the coolest debate you can have.

Geoff
mccread
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mccread 9/13/2012 3:11am
9/13/2012 3:11am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2012 3:22am
Whitey wrote:
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish. When you win the 450 Class in the USA...
There is no question, there is no doubt, to even think there is a question is foolish.

When you win the 450 Class in the USA you are the baddest mother fucker on a dirt scooter period!

The only real question is who is badder, the SX Champion or the MX Champion, but that is a debate for a different day.
CR250Rider wrote:
yes, and with Sx being the sprint race, MX the endurance race the best are here in the USA, to argue that is just silly
yes, and with Sx being the sprint race, MX the endurance race


the best are here in the USA, to argue that is just silly
No they are not. That is the biggest lie in the motocross world, and the biggest lie that American mx industry and sections of the media feed the rest of the world. The riders in the World Championship are just as good as American riders, it's just different.

Dungey ain't any better than Cairoli, they are all similar. Dungey is great and so is Cairoli.

To presume your riders are superior to the World Champions, without ever racing them in the world championship is superemely arrogant.

There are great riders in both series, the level is similar, but the series are totally different, it is impossible to say precisely who is the best until they all race the World Championship (with a couple of rounds in the US).
Huckster
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Huckster 9/13/2012 3:25am
9/13/2012 3:25am
mccread wrote:
No they are not. That is the biggest lie in the motocross world, and the biggest lie that American mx industry and sections of the media...
No they are not. That is the biggest lie in the motocross world, and the biggest lie that American mx industry and sections of the media feed the rest of the world. The riders in the World Championship are just as good as American riders, it's just different.

Dungey ain't any better than Cairoli, they are all similar. Dungey is great and so is Cairoli.

To presume your riders are superior to the World Champions, without ever racing them in the world championship is superemely arrogant.

There are great riders in both series, the level is similar, but the series are totally different, it is impossible to say precisely who is the best until they all race the World Championship (with a couple of rounds in the US).
But yet you can make claims like "heirlings is the fastest in the world..." although he has never raced any of our top riders in a series.....Oh and please tell me about how at the MXoN he "lapped" BB and beat RV in France last year because then I can tell you how RD has NEVER lost to your 6x champion in 3 head to head events and RV smoked Heirlings by 27+sec in France and RD and RV won the O/A in their class and on and on......You McCread are such a hypocrite.

Go read Regis post again. He nails it. There is HISTORY of GP champions coming over here and racing. There is little history in the modern past of it happening the other way around. Those GP champions tell us that the Nationals are harder and better for the reasons Regis posted. Straight from the horses mouth but yet there is still denial.....The "fastest rider" debate may never be solvable but there is no question which series is the premier motocross series and that is the Nationals.....just ask KR,MM, TR, CR, etc....
mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 9/13/2012 3:35am
9/13/2012 3:35am
mccread wrote:
No they are not. That is the biggest lie in the motocross world, and the biggest lie that American mx industry and sections of the media...
No they are not. That is the biggest lie in the motocross world, and the biggest lie that American mx industry and sections of the media feed the rest of the world. The riders in the World Championship are just as good as American riders, it's just different.

Dungey ain't any better than Cairoli, they are all similar. Dungey is great and so is Cairoli.

To presume your riders are superior to the World Champions, without ever racing them in the world championship is superemely arrogant.

There are great riders in both series, the level is similar, but the series are totally different, it is impossible to say precisely who is the best until they all race the World Championship (with a couple of rounds in the US).
Huckster wrote:
But yet you can make claims like "heirlings is the fastest in the world..." although he has never raced any of our top riders in a...
But yet you can make claims like "heirlings is the fastest in the world..." although he has never raced any of our top riders in a series.....Oh and please tell me about how at the MXoN he "lapped" BB and beat RV in France last year because then I can tell you how RD has NEVER lost to your 6x champion in 3 head to head events and RV smoked Heirlings by 27+sec in France and RD and RV won the O/A in their class and on and on......You McCread are such a hypocrite.

Go read Regis post again. He nails it. There is HISTORY of GP champions coming over here and racing. There is little history in the modern past of it happening the other way around. Those GP champions tell us that the Nationals are harder and better for the reasons Regis posted. Straight from the horses mouth but yet there is still denial.....The "fastest rider" debate may never be solvable but there is no question which series is the premier motocross series and that is the Nationals.....just ask KR,MM, TR, CR, etc....
Cairoli actually beat Dungey in Italy at the MXon in moto one. I do agree with you, Dungey has more than Cairoli's measure until now. There isn''t a lot in it though, their speed is pretty similar, Dungey is much more consistent in the MXoN thats for sure.
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Huckster 9/13/2012 3:54am
9/13/2012 3:54am
mxgeoff wrote:
Cairoli actually beat Dungey in Italy at the MXon in moto one. I do agree with you, Dungey has more than Cairoli's measure until now. There...
Cairoli actually beat Dungey in Italy at the MXon in moto one. I do agree with you, Dungey has more than Cairoli's measure until now. There isn''t a lot in it though, their speed is pretty similar, Dungey is much more consistent in the MXoN thats for sure.
yup he beat him in 1 moto....Thats 1/2 a race.....Justin Barcia just led more laps than any other lites rider at the Nationals...Did they give him a trophy for that? Nope, no one cares about laps led, qualifying races, and lap times. All that matters in professional racing is winning....Dungey is 3-0 vs AC in straight up match ups.....
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Aaryn234 9/13/2012 4:03am
9/13/2012 4:03am
mxgeoff wrote:
Can't totally agree there. I think if we split moto wins it's pretty close. Cairoli, Paulin, Searle, Herlings, Roczen and others have beaten AMA guys in...
Can't totally agree there. I think if we split moto wins it's pretty close. Cairoli, Paulin, Searle, Herlings, Roczen and others have beaten AMA guys in recent years at the MXoN and on a regular basis.

Team wise I don't even think a combined GP team could beat Team USA. Villopoto, Dungey and Baggett against Cairoli, Herlings and Desalle and I still go with Team USA for the win.

What would be awesome is two ten man teams, AMA versus FIM.

Villopoto, Dungey, Stewart, Baggett, Barcia, Tomac, Alessi, Reed, Roczen, Musquin versus Cairoli, Desalle, Herlings, Searle, Pourcel, Paulin, Van Horebeek, De Dycker and maybe Roelants.

I give that one to the AMA riders too.

Geoff
Grieby54 wrote:
Can't argue with that. Like I said, we wouldn't win every MXdN in the AMA vs FIM race, but we would win most of them. I...
Can't argue with that. Like I said, we wouldn't win every MXdN in the AMA vs FIM race, but we would win most of them. I think the top 10 would be a fun race to watch...
mccread wrote:
Cairoli wants a Europe v USA race like the ryder cup and reckons Europe could win... That would be an awesome race. Europe could have...(plus many...
Cairoli wants a Europe v USA race like the ryder cup and reckons Europe could win...
That would be an awesome race.

Europe could have...(plus many others)

Cairoli
Roczen
Herlings
Desalle
Pourcel
Nagl
Frossard
Paulin
Van Horebeek
Searle
Musquin

USA

Dungey
RV
Stewart
Tomac
Baggett
Barcia
Alessi
Grant
Weimer
Millsaps
Canard

That could be the best race ever!
Nope would not be the best race ever

It does not included

Reed
Townley
Ratray
Metcalfe
and others

Three way race

America V Europe V Rest of the World

Sure on the whole, the rest of the World would struggle with depth, but without the rest of the World you are missing some of the best riders.

12 Riders Per Region
6 on 450s (350s!) 6 on 250Fs
None of this crappy under23 age restriction on the 250F

Two Rounds One on a World Championship track, One on a Lucas Oils Pro MX Track.

(Would love to say a third round in Aus, NZ or South Africa!)
mccread
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mccread 9/13/2012 4:13am
9/13/2012 4:13am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2012 4:17am
mccread wrote:
No they are not. That is the biggest lie in the motocross world, and the biggest lie that American mx industry and sections of the media...
No they are not. That is the biggest lie in the motocross world, and the biggest lie that American mx industry and sections of the media feed the rest of the world. The riders in the World Championship are just as good as American riders, it's just different.

Dungey ain't any better than Cairoli, they are all similar. Dungey is great and so is Cairoli.

To presume your riders are superior to the World Champions, without ever racing them in the world championship is superemely arrogant.

There are great riders in both series, the level is similar, but the series are totally different, it is impossible to say precisely who is the best until they all race the World Championship (with a couple of rounds in the US).
Huckster wrote:
But yet you can make claims like "heirlings is the fastest in the world..." although he has never raced any of our top riders in a...
But yet you can make claims like "heirlings is the fastest in the world..." although he has never raced any of our top riders in a series.....Oh and please tell me about how at the MXoN he "lapped" BB and beat RV in France last year because then I can tell you how RD has NEVER lost to your 6x champion in 3 head to head events and RV smoked Heirlings by 27+sec in France and RD and RV won the O/A in their class and on and on......You McCread are such a hypocrite.

Go read Regis post again. He nails it. There is HISTORY of GP champions coming over here and racing. There is little history in the modern past of it happening the other way around. Those GP champions tell us that the Nationals are harder and better for the reasons Regis posted. Straight from the horses mouth but yet there is still denial.....The "fastest rider" debate may never be solvable but there is no question which series is the premier motocross series and that is the Nationals.....just ask KR,MM, TR, CR, etc....
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
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Huckster 9/13/2012 4:23am
9/13/2012 4:23am
mccread wrote:
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week...
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER said that there arent fast riders in the GP's. What I said is that the GP champions who come over here to race say that the Nationals are tough as Regis pointed out in his post......You can argue that point until you're blue in the face but the Roczens, Musquins, Reeds, and Rattray's of the world who have raced both say it......NOT ME.....I dont "disrespect" anyone.....Those are the words out of the mouths of guys who combined have 5 GP championships....The riders speak for themselves....GP champs come here, AMA champs don't go to the GP's unless they can't find a ride and are on the downside of their career....Again, just FACTS..not opinion....

Plus if we use your logic, Roczen owned Herlings last year and Musquin owned Roczen the year before. Roczen finished 4th and Musquin 5th this year. That would put Herlings at about 5th-6th depending on some luck in the nationals this year. Baggett, Barcia and Tomac proved that they were faster and more consistant over the course of 24 moto's than your previous Two(3 titles) GP champs.....
Rupert X
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Rupert X 9/13/2012 4:26am
9/13/2012 4:26am
mxr338 wrote:
To compare the two series is ludicrous. They are so different its impossible to compare. I've been that guy who moved to a different country and...
To compare the two series is ludicrous. They are so different its impossible to compare. I've been that guy who moved to a different country and had to adjust. It's not simple even if it is moving to the greatest country on the planet. This forum use to be fun,funny and interesting but now it's a giant Europe vs USA pissing contest on every thread! Depressing.
I believe the gentleman from Puerto Rico summed things up quite eloquently.

Big fan of the Zachirribbean, righ cheer.

Pit Row

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DonM
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DonM 9/13/2012 7:19am
9/13/2012 7:19am
mccread wrote:
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week...
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
Huckster wrote:
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER...
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER said that there arent fast riders in the GP's. What I said is that the GP champions who come over here to race say that the Nationals are tough as Regis pointed out in his post......You can argue that point until you're blue in the face but the Roczens, Musquins, Reeds, and Rattray's of the world who have raced both say it......NOT ME.....I dont "disrespect" anyone.....Those are the words out of the mouths of guys who combined have 5 GP championships....The riders speak for themselves....GP champs come here, AMA champs don't go to the GP's unless they can't find a ride and are on the downside of their career....Again, just FACTS..not opinion....

Plus if we use your logic, Roczen owned Herlings last year and Musquin owned Roczen the year before. Roczen finished 4th and Musquin 5th this year. That would put Herlings at about 5th-6th depending on some luck in the nationals this year. Baggett, Barcia and Tomac proved that they were faster and more consistant over the course of 24 moto's than your previous Two(3 titles) GP champs.....
I tried to point that out to him the other day....he only hears what he wants to hear and argue for arguments sake. don't waste your time.
DC
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DC 9/13/2012 8:19am
9/13/2012 8:19am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2012 8:20am
Geoff, nobody here doubts that Jeffrey Herlings will likely win Lommel going away -- we've been saying that for literally two years -- so don't place too much emphasis on one sandy team race. We don't have a lot of sand in the states, just as there's not a lot of hard-pack SX in Holland and Belgium for Herlings to learn supercross upon. What does it mean? It means the world is a big place with lots of diversity, and he's the best sand rider on the planet.

Every year you whip up these threads, then take offense when people argue one way or the other, and then explain away every result that does not make your side look better. Like Zach pointed out above, it's not so much fun anymore.

Also, you wrote, "I don't think there are too many GP riders interested in living in America at the moment, the whole dream of going to USA has changed..."

Maybe that's because the ones good enough to get a ride for both SX and MX are already here (or in the case of Tommy and Max have already had their chances here and gone home without any wins). I am sure there are more to come -- you should come visit them someday!

Win or lose, see you in the beer tent.

DC
MX Sports
j100
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j100 9/13/2012 8:26am
9/13/2012 8:26am
Geoff, you were very nice in our talks, but these threads make me want to punch the wall.

what you're proposing will NEVER happen, so who cares?

two different series, two champs. AC and Ryan could give a fuck less what you guys think. both a rich as hell and neither are losing sleep over this debate.

why don't you guys shut the fuck up about it and root your favorite team on at the MXDN?
pawsan
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pawsan 9/13/2012 8:32am
9/13/2012 8:32am
for fuck sake can we not just enjoy whats hopefully going to be an epic mxdn without all this my daddy's gonna beat your daddy bollocks.

every single rider that throws their leg over a dirtbike deserves respect, not shit talk.
mccread
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mccread 9/13/2012 8:34am
9/13/2012 8:34am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2012 8:35am
mccread wrote:
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week...
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
Huckster wrote:
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER...
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER said that there arent fast riders in the GP's. What I said is that the GP champions who come over here to race say that the Nationals are tough as Regis pointed out in his post......You can argue that point until you're blue in the face but the Roczens, Musquins, Reeds, and Rattray's of the world who have raced both say it......NOT ME.....I dont "disrespect" anyone.....Those are the words out of the mouths of guys who combined have 5 GP championships....The riders speak for themselves....GP champs come here, AMA champs don't go to the GP's unless they can't find a ride and are on the downside of their career....Again, just FACTS..not opinion....

Plus if we use your logic, Roczen owned Herlings last year and Musquin owned Roczen the year before. Roczen finished 4th and Musquin 5th this year. That would put Herlings at about 5th-6th depending on some luck in the nationals this year. Baggett, Barcia and Tomac proved that they were faster and more consistant over the course of 24 moto's than your previous Two(3 titles) GP champs.....
I'll say it again, the AMA national results are not a fair comparison as to who is the best rider in the world. Trying to compare based on a national championship proves nothing in a world context.

They would all need to race the World Championship (including some US GPs). That will not happen, so instead of trying to make America seem superior, just accept the fact that both are great but entirely differect series that deserve equal respect for the difficulty in winning either.

Saying the AMA nationals are better than the World Championship is disrespectful. Of course they find it hard racing the AMericans in America, they are totally up against it. The World Championship it is neutral. Americans find it pretty hard as well.

Baggett would find it harder racing Herligns in Holland than he would in America.

I have covered the reason Dungey and co. won't race the GPs, it has nothing to do with it being easier than the AMA National series.

You don't get it do you? I feel sorry for you Americanised view of the world.

World Championship is as tough as the AMA Motocross series. It is just different.
j100
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j100 9/13/2012 8:49am
9/13/2012 8:49am
mccread wrote:
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week...
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
Huckster wrote:
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER...
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER said that there arent fast riders in the GP's. What I said is that the GP champions who come over here to race say that the Nationals are tough as Regis pointed out in his post......You can argue that point until you're blue in the face but the Roczens, Musquins, Reeds, and Rattray's of the world who have raced both say it......NOT ME.....I dont "disrespect" anyone.....Those are the words out of the mouths of guys who combined have 5 GP championships....The riders speak for themselves....GP champs come here, AMA champs don't go to the GP's unless they can't find a ride and are on the downside of their career....Again, just FACTS..not opinion....

Plus if we use your logic, Roczen owned Herlings last year and Musquin owned Roczen the year before. Roczen finished 4th and Musquin 5th this year. That would put Herlings at about 5th-6th depending on some luck in the nationals this year. Baggett, Barcia and Tomac proved that they were faster and more consistant over the course of 24 moto's than your previous Two(3 titles) GP champs.....
mccread wrote:
I'll say it again, the AMA national results are not a fair comparison as to who is the best rider in the world. Trying to compare...
I'll say it again, the AMA national results are not a fair comparison as to who is the best rider in the world. Trying to compare based on a national championship proves nothing in a world context.

They would all need to race the World Championship (including some US GPs). That will not happen, so instead of trying to make America seem superior, just accept the fact that both are great but entirely differect series that deserve equal respect for the difficulty in winning either.

Saying the AMA nationals are better than the World Championship is disrespectful. Of course they find it hard racing the AMericans in America, they are totally up against it. The World Championship it is neutral. Americans find it pretty hard as well.

Baggett would find it harder racing Herligns in Holland than he would in America.

I have covered the reason Dungey and co. won't race the GPs, it has nothing to do with it being easier than the AMA National series.

You don't get it do you? I feel sorry for you Americanised view of the world.

World Championship is as tough as the AMA Motocross series. It is just different.
just quit responding and this will all go away. you guys are arguing like 10 year olds. jesus christ.
mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 9/13/2012 8:53am
9/13/2012 8:53am
DC wrote:
Geoff, nobody here doubts that Jeffrey Herlings will likely win Lommel going away -- we've been saying that for literally two years -- so don't place...
Geoff, nobody here doubts that Jeffrey Herlings will likely win Lommel going away -- we've been saying that for literally two years -- so don't place too much emphasis on one sandy team race. We don't have a lot of sand in the states, just as there's not a lot of hard-pack SX in Holland and Belgium for Herlings to learn supercross upon. What does it mean? It means the world is a big place with lots of diversity, and he's the best sand rider on the planet.

Every year you whip up these threads, then take offense when people argue one way or the other, and then explain away every result that does not make your side look better. Like Zach pointed out above, it's not so much fun anymore.

Also, you wrote, "I don't think there are too many GP riders interested in living in America at the moment, the whole dream of going to USA has changed..."

Maybe that's because the ones good enough to get a ride for both SX and MX are already here (or in the case of Tommy and Max have already had their chances here and gone home without any wins). I am sure there are more to come -- you should come visit them someday!

Win or lose, see you in the beer tent.

DC
MX Sports
DC,

I've taken no offence to anything anyone has said? And I 100% agree with you on the euro and SX thing. I have visited America probably 30 times in my life, lived there twice in the 1980s, and I will visit again soon. And as far as the beer tent goes I will be there and we will bench race, but only if Herlings and Cairoli come out on top, hahaha.

It's always fun, and just because Zach doesn't enjoy it doesn't mean the rest don't. It's just fun, I take it that way and so should everyone else.

Geoff
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 9/13/2012 8:56am
9/13/2012 8:56am
Just please everyone get through the first turn clean.
Huckster
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Huckster 9/13/2012 8:57am
9/13/2012 8:57am
mccread wrote:
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week...
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
Huckster wrote:
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER...
You have serious reading comprehension issues. If you actually read my post I stated that the "fastest rider debate may never be solvable.." I have NEVER said that there arent fast riders in the GP's. What I said is that the GP champions who come over here to race say that the Nationals are tough as Regis pointed out in his post......You can argue that point until you're blue in the face but the Roczens, Musquins, Reeds, and Rattray's of the world who have raced both say it......NOT ME.....I dont "disrespect" anyone.....Those are the words out of the mouths of guys who combined have 5 GP championships....The riders speak for themselves....GP champs come here, AMA champs don't go to the GP's unless they can't find a ride and are on the downside of their career....Again, just FACTS..not opinion....

Plus if we use your logic, Roczen owned Herlings last year and Musquin owned Roczen the year before. Roczen finished 4th and Musquin 5th this year. That would put Herlings at about 5th-6th depending on some luck in the nationals this year. Baggett, Barcia and Tomac proved that they were faster and more consistant over the course of 24 moto's than your previous Two(3 titles) GP champs.....
mccread wrote:
I'll say it again, the AMA national results are not a fair comparison as to who is the best rider in the world. Trying to compare...
I'll say it again, the AMA national results are not a fair comparison as to who is the best rider in the world. Trying to compare based on a national championship proves nothing in a world context.

They would all need to race the World Championship (including some US GPs). That will not happen, so instead of trying to make America seem superior, just accept the fact that both are great but entirely differect series that deserve equal respect for the difficulty in winning either.

Saying the AMA nationals are better than the World Championship is disrespectful. Of course they find it hard racing the AMericans in America, they are totally up against it. The World Championship it is neutral. Americans find it pretty hard as well.

Baggett would find it harder racing Herligns in Holland than he would in America.

I have covered the reason Dungey and co. won't race the GPs, it has nothing to do with it being easier than the AMA National series.

You don't get it do you? I feel sorry for you Americanised view of the world.

World Championship is as tough as the AMA Motocross series. It is just different.
semantics....look it up in the dictionary but you probably already know the meaning because your whole argument is based off it. Get over the whole "world Championship" v "National championship" word scramble.....It is so meaningless yet you continue to hang onto it in an attempt to avoid the facts. GP champions are leaving the GP's to come race the US series. THEY say its tougher and better.....Not my words, not my bias, and certainly not my "arrogance." I have no dog in the fight. I am a fan and see things objectively and use FACTS to base my statements off of....You on the other hand.....

You aren't by chance small are you?
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 9/13/2012 9:26am
9/13/2012 9:26am
Huckster wrote:
semantics....look it up in the dictionary but you probably already know the meaning because your whole argument is based off it. Get over the whole "world...
semantics....look it up in the dictionary but you probably already know the meaning because your whole argument is based off it. Get over the whole "world Championship" v "National championship" word scramble.....It is so meaningless yet you continue to hang onto it in an attempt to avoid the facts. GP champions are leaving the GP's to come race the US series. THEY say its tougher and better.....Not my words, not my bias, and certainly not my "arrogance." I have no dog in the fight. I am a fan and see things objectively and use FACTS to base my statements off of....You on the other hand.....

You aren't by chance small are you?
Hey! Way out of bounds sticking to facts! 15 yards
Bauer
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Bauer 9/13/2012 4:43pm
9/13/2012 4:43pm
I tried to pull up the MXdN results for the last decade, so I could see what the results of a USA vs Everybody Else match race would have been, but Geoff's mxlarge website, (which is apparently the official Youthstream site for results), won't give me anything but MX1 and MX2 etc.
fader418
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fader418 9/13/2012 5:36pm
9/13/2012 5:36pm
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay didn't win when he came over here? No world champion has or ever will win over here. Its that simple. If the americans were not the fastest then why the hell to all the euro's come here to race?

Post a reply to: Until this happens anything we mention is BS