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Adding to that, had the AMA series been run on Unadilla type circuits you can be sure Roczen and Musquin would have done a lot better.
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2. The two recent times it was in the US, a US rider went 1-1.
3. When everyone raced on a track that was new to everyone (Lake Elsinore), the results were the same.
That pretty much takes away a lot of excuses for a European rider's success in the US. Last year, I think Roczen would have gotten 1st or 2nd to Wilson in the 250 MX Championship. This year, however, Barcia and Tomac stepped it up and Baggett became more consistent.
I agree. Unfortunately this is usually completely overlooked by the morons who like to shout about Roczen having "his ass handed to him" or whatever hyperbolic statement they choose for consistently finishing on the podium and leading a large number of laps over the course of the season.
I'm not sure I'd go with Geoff's grip on economic issues.
Everyone bragged about how the riders in the Workd championship had to adapt to all sorts of countries and conditions yet now they can't adapt to a single country. I'm not buying it.
I also agree with skip above me, about adapting to different countries....
Maybe what you meant was that it was the "coolest" track in that it was not so hot that day. In fact, after the race Roger DeCoster asked me if we could make all of the races that cool.
But then again, you had to be there to really understand what happens and why...
DC
MX Sports
All I know is Musquin said Unadilla was a circuit you needed throttle control and not just wide open. I''ve been to Unadilla a handful of times and it always looked like a euro circuit to me. Can't have changed that much, or has it?
The temp would also answer a lot of questions about why the euro guys did well there. Thanks for that.
Geoff
When the GP riders go to a different track, they all go together, it''s the same for everyone. When a GP rider goes to an AMA circuit its new to them, but not to everyone else. Thats the difference and I''ve talked to enough GP riders who rode both series and most of them say the tracks in America are a lot more wide open than the GP circuits. From watching it on tv I get the impression that the AMA circuits are really nice, well prepared, flowing circuits. GP circuits are not flowing, ruts cross eachother, the lines are often a mess, they are often stop and start types of circuits. Totally different riding style needed.
Geoff
"Until one of our guys comes over there and dominates your guys in the American series, or until one of your guys comes over here and dominates our guys in the world championship series, no other race tells the story of the skill level of riders from each series, even though when we go head to head once a year, you guys kick our asses."
That's my take, anyway.
As for the adapting to a different country/environment thing, Its not that European riders can't adjust to life and the racing structure in the US, its simply the fact that they HAVE to while the American riders don't. How do you think Baggett would have fared had moved on his own to Italy or Belgium as a 17 year old to race in a different country every other week?
The fact that some of you guys don't quite grasp the significance of this level playing field theory is because nearly all the major sports in America are played solely on US soil. It's not uncommon for a US rider to perform better at their home National circuit - well magnify that by about 10 and you might have some idea of the psychological advantage a French or Dutch rider has when he races his home GP. GP riders nearly ALWAYS perform better at their home GP, but take that rider somewhere else, where the language, culture, weather and track surface is different and he will find it more of a challenge at least.
This is one reason why most 'World Championships' take in a variety of different countries, so that no one nation has an advantage.
Pit Row
Please give this discounting of our results a rest. The Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship is very diverse and competitive series, and it would have been even more competitive had the defending champion -- Dean Wilson -- been out there battling for the title. Your best guys came over and performed well, and with experience they will be even better.
We don't discount Ken and Marvin, so please have the same respect and don't discount our races unless you actually attend them to see the full story.
I went to Valkenswaard last year and came back and wrote that Jeffrey Herlings would win either class at Southwick if he showed up, and I still believe that. I don't discount what he did against Tommy Searle or Zach Osborne or whoever else is out there.
That's the "B.S." part of this ridiculous argument: you guys are arguing with actual results, in this case 24 different motos.
DC
MX Sports
The AMA series is awesome, great tracks and great riders. Not for once do I see it any other way. I''ve been a fan of the AMA riders since the early 1970s, my first non Aussie MX hero was Marty Smith. This isn''t about the series, it''s about the fact GP riders have a tough time getting used to the different style of circuits. Thats all.
You have some of the best riders in the World there and you should be proud of that.
Geoff
Most of these posts (at least mine) are alluding to why European riders start off at a slight disadvantage when they move over there.
Roczen was beaten this year by three incredibly fast Americans who have all improved on last years performances. There is no argument about that.
I'll grant you that many of out tracks were faster than Brazil and Sweden this year.
Geoff, you said yourself a month or so ago that the "technical" aspects of the current GP tracks were more the artificial rhythm/timing sections than traditional old school features.
These supposed differences in travel burden and tracks seemed to get argued one way or another depending on how the wind blows.
It probably sounds like Im just another 'moaning euro' but Im not (I don't think many of us are in reality but it's virtually impossible to convey any sense of tone or sensitivity when you're writing down your thoughts). We all LOVE the Outdoor Nationals, thats why we waste so many goddamn hours on this place like the rest of you. But there is a difference between the series, quite a significant one and its frustrating to read people (not you ML) make blanket statements without really understanding the intricacies.
From memory GP circuits were wide open and dust, hahahaha. GP riders didn''t know a whoop from a double, remember Smets complaining in 1996 at the MXoN in Spain about the double jumps.
Thats changed big time and our tracks have a lot of supercross type sections, wave sections, little jumps here and there and some big jumps. But that slows riders down, it doesn''t make the circuit faster.
I don''t know, I keep hearing how AMA circuits are slow, but I keep hearing from riders who have raced them that they are wide open. I just comment on what I am told by riders. I don't use my own opinion, because I am not a racer and don''t have the balls to be one.
Geoff
Most AMA circuits are filled with sections where the riders are absolutely pinned for a significant amount of time. There are few GP circuits where you can say that - to me that is one of most obvious differences in riding styles; the GP guys tend to chop the throttle more while the US guys keep the throttle wound on for longer and therefore carry a bit more momentum.
You should stop having such an inferiority complex.........
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