Until this happens anything we mention is BS

mxgeoff
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9/12/2012 6:45am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 6:47am
mccread wrote:
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US...
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US. Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy.

What you mean is Americans struggle outside their own country a lot more than people from other countries, because they are more insulated, hence why they don't want to ride the World championsip.
Switch wrote:
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy" So if the World guys won over there at such...
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy"

So if the World guys won over there at such diverse places, they should expect to adapt to America and win the same way right?

Everyones entire arguement circles around the fact that its hard to adapt in the US. Then you turn around and say they have to adapt to race the world races anyway and have no trouble doing that.

What?

Edit: And calling someone stupid definitely does not make you look smarter.
tns wrote:
i'm with you on the travelling thing as its a bollox argument when all the riders do really is fly in and either eat in a...
i'm with you on the travelling thing as its a bollox argument when all the riders do really is fly in and either eat in a hotel or what is prepared in the team truck,its not like the old days when they drove from country to country stopping at a restaurant to eat and then getting the shits because they were not use to the food .
As i have said its the style of racing thats different and the intensity.
I agree with you on that one. I don''t think we have one REAL AMA styled track in Europe. These guys get there and it is like WOW, the pace is flat out. They can not deal with it. Mind you that is a pretty difficult thing to change I imagine. Going from throttle control in europe compared to nearly all the AMA tracks, which is flat out. No surprise Roczen and Musquin did well at Unadilla, which is all about throttle control.

Adding to that, had the AMA series been run on Unadilla type circuits you can be sure Roczen and Musquin would have done a lot better.
Derpin' DJ
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9/12/2012 6:48am
Huckster wrote:
There you go again not telling the whole story....Baggett got lapped but he still beat your 6x champ Cairoli....why don't you say that? Just answer one...
There you go again not telling the whole story....Baggett got lapped but he still beat your 6x champ Cairoli....why don't you say that?

Just answer one question. If an individual rider beats another rider at the MXoN, does that make him better in your opinion? This is a yes or no answer.......

Roczen has 24 chances to beat the best lites riders in the world this year and he did it once......
You're also not telling the whole story. He beat each of them numerous times. But he could only beat them all together one time.
Huckster
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9/12/2012 6:55am
Huckster wrote:
There you go again not telling the whole story....Baggett got lapped but he still beat your 6x champ Cairoli....why don't you say that? Just answer one...
There you go again not telling the whole story....Baggett got lapped but he still beat your 6x champ Cairoli....why don't you say that?

Just answer one question. If an individual rider beats another rider at the MXoN, does that make him better in your opinion? This is a yes or no answer.......

Roczen has 24 chances to beat the best lites riders in the world this year and he did it once......
Derpin' DJ wrote:
You're also not telling the whole story. He beat each of them numerous times. But he could only beat them all together one time.
that is true and a valid point.............
DonM
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9/12/2012 7:15am
Switch wrote:
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy" So if the World guys won over there at such...
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy"

So if the World guys won over there at such diverse places, they should expect to adapt to America and win the same way right?

Everyones entire arguement circles around the fact that its hard to adapt in the US. Then you turn around and say they have to adapt to race the world races anyway and have no trouble doing that.

What?

Edit: And calling someone stupid definitely does not make you look smarter.
tns wrote:
i'm with you on the travelling thing as its a bollox argument when all the riders do really is fly in and either eat in a...
i'm with you on the travelling thing as its a bollox argument when all the riders do really is fly in and either eat in a hotel or what is prepared in the team truck,its not like the old days when they drove from country to country stopping at a restaurant to eat and then getting the shits because they were not use to the food .
As i have said its the style of racing thats different and the intensity.
mxgeoff wrote:
I agree with you on that one. I don''t think we have one REAL AMA styled track in Europe. These guys get there and it is...
I agree with you on that one. I don''t think we have one REAL AMA styled track in Europe. These guys get there and it is like WOW, the pace is flat out. They can not deal with it. Mind you that is a pretty difficult thing to change I imagine. Going from throttle control in europe compared to nearly all the AMA tracks, which is flat out. No surprise Roczen and Musquin did well at Unadilla, which is all about throttle control.

Adding to that, had the AMA series been run on Unadilla type circuits you can be sure Roczen and Musquin would have done a lot better.
Geoff, I don't think that the speed of the tracks is that much different, the us has some fast tracks and so do the GP's. The biggest difference is the length of the tracks, the GP's typically have lap times of 1:45 to 1:55, the US tracks are typically 2:15 to 2:30 with exception being Lake Elsinore which was just under 3 minutes! When I looked at the total time of both race this weekend I was surprised that the US race was only 1 minute shorter even though the timed length of the motos is 5 minutes different! The Us tracks seem to have a few sections of what I call point and shoot sections where horsepower has it advantages while the GP tracks don't typically have that (this is where Alessi excels). The GP tracks seem to have more flow and rhythm, then throw in the different track prep and the differences become obvious. And don't forget that crazy green fencing that the GP's have because if we had that here Dungey would have DNFed at least 3 motos because he would have got that wrapped up in his rear wheel and our championship would have been much closer!!

The Shop

TMV
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9/12/2012 7:25am
DonM wrote:
Geoff, I don't think that the speed of the tracks is that much different, the us has some fast tracks and so do the GP's. The...
Geoff, I don't think that the speed of the tracks is that much different, the us has some fast tracks and so do the GP's. The biggest difference is the length of the tracks, the GP's typically have lap times of 1:45 to 1:55, the US tracks are typically 2:15 to 2:30 with exception being Lake Elsinore which was just under 3 minutes! When I looked at the total time of both race this weekend I was surprised that the US race was only 1 minute shorter even though the timed length of the motos is 5 minutes different! The Us tracks seem to have a few sections of what I call point and shoot sections where horsepower has it advantages while the GP tracks don't typically have that (this is where Alessi excels). The GP tracks seem to have more flow and rhythm, then throw in the different track prep and the differences become obvious. And don't forget that crazy green fencing that the GP's have because if we had that here Dungey would have DNFed at least 3 motos because he would have got that wrapped up in his rear wheel and our championship would have been much closer!!
The oh so stupid "green shit" as i like to call it. It should be manufactured by a Giuseppe's friend, this is the only reason I found to explain the fact it's still there...
Ing
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9/12/2012 7:32am
I think we should see what goes on at the MXoN before we give Herlings the worlds best rider award. I mean, he hasn't won it yet. That's why they race.
TDeath21
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9/12/2012 7:38am
1. At the Des Nations, a US rider usually wins the overall regardless of where it is.

2. The two recent times it was in the US, a US rider went 1-1.

3. When everyone raced on a track that was new to everyone (Lake Elsinore), the results were the same.

That pretty much takes away a lot of excuses for a European rider's success in the US. Last year, I think Roczen would have gotten 1st or 2nd to Wilson in the 250 MX Championship. This year, however, Barcia and Tomac stepped it up and Baggett became more consistent.
jamma10
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9/12/2012 7:48am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 7:49am
Last year, I think Roczen would have gotten 1st or 2nd to Wilson in the 250 MX Championship. This year, however, Barcia and Tomac stepped it up and Baggett became more consistent.

I agree. Unfortunately this is usually completely overlooked by the morons who like to shout about Roczen having "his ass handed to him" or whatever hyperbolic statement they choose for consistently finishing on the podium and leading a large number of laps over the course of the season.
mccread
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9/12/2012 8:00am
Ing wrote:
I think we should see what goes on at the MXoN before we give Herlings the worlds best rider award. I mean, he hasn't won it...
I think we should see what goes on at the MXoN before we give Herlings the worlds best rider award. I mean, he hasn't won it yet. That's why they race.
He is world mx2 champion...he already has the award Wink
FreshTopEnd
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9/12/2012 8:21am
Well, no one can argue with the proposition that the best riders in the world are not all in the same series, or that until all the best riders are in the same series at the same time, the fans' arguments are opinions and not facts based on series results. Just as no one can argue with the proposition that top talent from the GPs goes to the US to race, and that no top US riders feel the need to go overseas.

I'm not sure I'd go with Geoff's grip on economic issues.
Skip376
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9/12/2012 8:24am
Everyone races on the same track so I don't see how it's not fair. Ken Roc and Musquin have lived here long enough to get the idea and Roczen sure didn't seem to struggle with SX. The 350 proved that.

Everyone bragged about how the riders in the Workd championship had to adapt to all sorts of countries and conditions yet now they can't adapt to a single country. I'm not buying it.
ML512
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9/12/2012 8:26am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 8:32am
Hey Geoff, on the big fish lil pond comment. Everts himself stated the best advice he ever took was "do you want to be a lil fish in a big pond or a big fish in a lil pond" he chose big fish lil pond Wink . One main problem I have with winning a world championship vs AMA nationals. Is the lack of a full gate in the GP's. Say you crash first corner, your back in a points scoring position very quickly. In the nationals we always have 40 riders... You go down first corner your gonna have to pass 19 guys to score 1 point...

I also agree with skip above me, about adapting to different countries....
DC
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9/12/2012 8:42am
"No surprise Roczen and Musquin did well at Unadilla, which is all about throttle control...." Geoff, you're kidding, right? Unadilla is one of the fastest tracks on the circuit. It was more about ruts than slick, hard-pack this time around. But it's still faster than almost all of the other tracks.

Maybe what you meant was that it was the "coolest" track in that it was not so hot that day. In fact, after the race Roger DeCoster asked me if we could make all of the races that cool.

But then again, you had to be there to really understand what happens and why...

DC
MX Sports
mxgeoff
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9/12/2012 8:45am
DC wrote:
"No surprise Roczen and Musquin did well at Unadilla, which is all about throttle control...." Geoff, you're kidding, right? Unadilla is one of the fastest tracks...
"No surprise Roczen and Musquin did well at Unadilla, which is all about throttle control...." Geoff, you're kidding, right? Unadilla is one of the fastest tracks on the circuit. It was more about ruts than slick, hard-pack this time around. But it's still faster than almost all of the other tracks.

Maybe what you meant was that it was the "coolest" track in that it was not so hot that day. In fact, after the race Roger DeCoster asked me if we could make all of the races that cool.

But then again, you had to be there to really understand what happens and why...

DC
MX Sports
DC,

All I know is Musquin said Unadilla was a circuit you needed throttle control and not just wide open. I''ve been to Unadilla a handful of times and it always looked like a euro circuit to me. Can't have changed that much, or has it?

The temp would also answer a lot of questions about why the euro guys did well there. Thanks for that.

Geoff
mxgeoff
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9/12/2012 8:47am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 8:48am
Skip376 wrote:
Everyone races on the same track so I don't see how it's not fair. Ken Roc and Musquin have lived here long enough to get the...
Everyone races on the same track so I don't see how it's not fair. Ken Roc and Musquin have lived here long enough to get the idea and Roczen sure didn't seem to struggle with SX. The 350 proved that.

Everyone bragged about how the riders in the Workd championship had to adapt to all sorts of countries and conditions yet now they can't adapt to a single country. I'm not buying it.
Skip,

When the GP riders go to a different track, they all go together, it''s the same for everyone. When a GP rider goes to an AMA circuit its new to them, but not to everyone else. Thats the difference and I''ve talked to enough GP riders who rode both series and most of them say the tracks in America are a lot more wide open than the GP circuits. From watching it on tv I get the impression that the AMA circuits are really nice, well prepared, flowing circuits. GP circuits are not flowing, ruts cross eachother, the lines are often a mess, they are often stop and start types of circuits. Totally different riding style needed.

Geoff
Tbteam
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9/12/2012 8:52am
Let me paraphrase Geoff's initial post:

"Until one of our guys comes over there and dominates your guys in the American series, or until one of your guys comes over here and dominates our guys in the world championship series, no other race tells the story of the skill level of riders from each series, even though when we go head to head once a year, you guys kick our asses."

That's my take, anyway. Smile
jamma10
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9/12/2012 8:53am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 8:58am
ML512 wrote:
Hey Geoff, on the big fish lil pond comment. Everts himself stated the best advice he ever took was "do you want to be a lil...
Hey Geoff, on the big fish lil pond comment. Everts himself stated the best advice he ever took was "do you want to be a lil fish in a big pond or a big fish in a lil pond" he chose big fish lil pond Wink . One main problem I have with winning a world championship vs AMA nationals. Is the lack of a full gate in the GP's. Say you crash first corner, your back in a points scoring position very quickly. In the nationals we always have 40 riders... You go down first corner your gonna have to pass 19 guys to score 1 point...

I also agree with skip above me, about adapting to different countries....
20th-40th in the Nats are hardly the quickest. The race winner in the States regularly laps up to 13/14th while Dungey started almost a full lap behined at Southwick last year and had passed his way up to 7th by the end!

As for the adapting to a different country/environment thing, Its not that European riders can't adjust to life and the racing structure in the US, its simply the fact that they HAVE to while the American riders don't. How do you think Baggett would have fared had moved on his own to Italy or Belgium as a 17 year old to race in a different country every other week?

The fact that some of you guys don't quite grasp the significance of this level playing field theory is because nearly all the major sports in America are played solely on US soil. It's not uncommon for a US rider to perform better at their home National circuit - well magnify that by about 10 and you might have some idea of the psychological advantage a French or Dutch rider has when he races his home GP. GP riders nearly ALWAYS perform better at their home GP, but take that rider somewhere else, where the language, culture, weather and track surface is different and he will find it more of a challenge at least.

This is one reason why most 'World Championships' take in a variety of different countries, so that no one nation has an advantage.
9/12/2012 8:53am
In a recent RacerX interview Tomac himself said that one of the biggest things that helped him this year (his 3rd year), was finally learning the National tracks.
DC
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9/12/2012 8:54am
Unadila has changed a lot over the years, none more so than the last two years.

Please give this discounting of our results a rest. The Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship is very diverse and competitive series, and it would have been even more competitive had the defending champion -- Dean Wilson -- been out there battling for the title. Your best guys came over and performed well, and with experience they will be even better.

We don't discount Ken and Marvin, so please have the same respect and don't discount our races unless you actually attend them to see the full story.

I went to Valkenswaard last year and came back and wrote that Jeffrey Herlings would win either class at Southwick if he showed up, and I still believe that. I don't discount what he did against Tommy Searle or Zach Osborne or whoever else is out there.

That's the "B.S." part of this ridiculous argument: you guys are arguing with actual results, in this case 24 different motos.

DC
MX Sports
mxgeoff
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9/12/2012 9:01am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 9:04am
DC wrote:
Unadila has changed a lot over the years, none more so than the last two years. Please give this discounting of our results a rest. The...
Unadila has changed a lot over the years, none more so than the last two years.

Please give this discounting of our results a rest. The Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship is very diverse and competitive series, and it would have been even more competitive had the defending champion -- Dean Wilson -- been out there battling for the title. Your best guys came over and performed well, and with experience they will be even better.

We don't discount Ken and Marvin, so please have the same respect and don't discount our races unless you actually attend them to see the full story.

I went to Valkenswaard last year and came back and wrote that Jeffrey Herlings would win either class at Southwick if he showed up, and I still believe that. I don't discount what he did against Tommy Searle or Zach Osborne or whoever else is out there.

That's the "B.S." part of this ridiculous argument: you guys are arguing with actual results, in this case 24 different motos.

DC
MX Sports
DC,

The AMA series is awesome, great tracks and great riders. Not for once do I see it any other way. I''ve been a fan of the AMA riders since the early 1970s, my first non Aussie MX hero was Marty Smith. This isn''t about the series, it''s about the fact GP riders have a tough time getting used to the different style of circuits. Thats all.

You have some of the best riders in the World there and you should be proud of that.

Geoff
ML512
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9/12/2012 9:03am
ML512 wrote:
Hey Geoff, on the big fish lil pond comment. Everts himself stated the best advice he ever took was "do you want to be a lil...
Hey Geoff, on the big fish lil pond comment. Everts himself stated the best advice he ever took was "do you want to be a lil fish in a big pond or a big fish in a lil pond" he chose big fish lil pond Wink . One main problem I have with winning a world championship vs AMA nationals. Is the lack of a full gate in the GP's. Say you crash first corner, your back in a points scoring position very quickly. In the nationals we always have 40 riders... You go down first corner your gonna have to pass 19 guys to score 1 point...

I also agree with skip above me, about adapting to different countries....
jamma10 wrote:
20th-40th in the Nats are hardly the quickest. The race winner in the States regularly laps up to 13/14th while Dungey started almost a full lap...
20th-40th in the Nats are hardly the quickest. The race winner in the States regularly laps up to 13/14th while Dungey started almost a full lap behined at Southwick last year and had passed his way up to 7th by the end!

As for the adapting to a different country/environment thing, Its not that European riders can't adjust to life and the racing structure in the US, its simply the fact that they HAVE to while the American riders don't. How do you think Baggett would have fared had moved on his own to Italy or Belgium as a 17 year old to race in a different country every other week?

The fact that some of you guys don't quite grasp the significance of this level playing field theory is because nearly all the major sports in America are played solely on US soil. It's not uncommon for a US rider to perform better at their home National circuit - well magnify that by about 10 and you might have some idea of the psychological advantage a French or Dutch rider has when he races his home GP. GP riders nearly ALWAYS perform better at their home GP, but take that rider somewhere else, where the language, culture, weather and track surface is different and he will find it more of a challenge at least.

This is one reason why most 'World Championships' take in a variety of different countries, so that no one nation has an advantage.
Still 20 riders the GP's don't even have... And I'm just stating the country language food thing not changing week to week. What was interesting is what tommy Searle told me what he thought of the week in week out schedule. He mentioned in the GP's more travel time to each race because you almost always drive. Plus the 2-3 days you are actually at a GP and having more weeks off between races. He said quite often he would ride once between races. But over here flying in and out he couldn't believe how crazy the schedule was, flying every week and most riders riding 3-4 times a week between races and he said the US teams do way more bike testing. And less weeks off between races.
jamma10
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9/12/2012 9:05am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 9:12am
DC, I think you're missing the point here slightly - no one is discrediting the Nationals. Everyone knows its an exceptional series, arguably the most most competitive in the world!

Most of these posts (at least mine) are alluding to why European riders start off at a slight disadvantage when they move over there.

Roczen was beaten this year by three incredibly fast Americans who have all improved on last years performances. There is no argument about that.
mxgeoff
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9/12/2012 9:06am
Tbteam wrote:
Let me paraphrase Geoff's initial post: "Until one of our guys comes over there and dominates your guys in the American series, or until one of...
Let me paraphrase Geoff's initial post:

"Until one of our guys comes over there and dominates your guys in the American series, or until one of your guys comes over here and dominates our guys in the world championship series, no other race tells the story of the skill level of riders from each series, even though when we go head to head once a year, you guys kick our asses."

That's my take, anyway. Smile
Did I ever deny American''s are not kicking euros asses? Happens every year.
FreshTopEnd
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9/12/2012 9:06am
Unadilla is among the fastest tracks on the circuit. It rutted up this year.

I'll grant you that many of out tracks were faster than Brazil and Sweden this year. Wink Otherwise, the track "differences" between the two series seem to me to be immaterial for the most part other than the deep sand in the low countries. And I suspect that the tracks here are a bit longer given the FIM regs (which had to be suspended for Glen Helen when it was on the calendar).

Geoff, you said yourself a month or so ago that the "technical" aspects of the current GP tracks were more the artificial rhythm/timing sections than traditional old school features.

These supposed differences in travel burden and tracks seemed to get argued one way or another depending on how the wind blows.
jamma10
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9/12/2012 9:11am
ML512 wrote:
Still 20 riders the GP's don't even have... And I'm just stating the country language food thing not changing week to week. What was interesting is...
Still 20 riders the GP's don't even have... And I'm just stating the country language food thing not changing week to week. What was interesting is what tommy Searle told me what he thought of the week in week out schedule. He mentioned in the GP's more travel time to each race because you almost always drive. Plus the 2-3 days you are actually at a GP and having more weeks off between races. He said quite often he would ride once between races. But over here flying in and out he couldn't believe how crazy the schedule was, flying every week and most riders riding 3-4 times a week between races and he said the US teams do way more bike testing. And less weeks off between races.
Which in itself is something the riders have to get used to - none more so than 17 year old kids who just want to mess around all day.

It probably sounds like Im just another 'moaning euro' but Im not (I don't think many of us are in reality but it's virtually impossible to convey any sense of tone or sensitivity when you're writing down your thoughts). We all LOVE the Outdoor Nationals, thats why we waste so many goddamn hours on this place like the rest of you. But there is a difference between the series, quite a significant one and its frustrating to read people (not you ML) make blanket statements without really understanding the intricacies.
tns
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9/12/2012 9:13am
ML512 wrote:
Hey Geoff, on the big fish lil pond comment. Everts himself stated the best advice he ever took was "do you want to be a lil...
Hey Geoff, on the big fish lil pond comment. Everts himself stated the best advice he ever took was "do you want to be a lil fish in a big pond or a big fish in a lil pond" he chose big fish lil pond Wink . One main problem I have with winning a world championship vs AMA nationals. Is the lack of a full gate in the GP's. Say you crash first corner, your back in a points scoring position very quickly. In the nationals we always have 40 riders... You go down first corner your gonna have to pass 19 guys to score 1 point...

I also agree with skip above me, about adapting to different countries....
you also forgot that 5 of the riders in front of you at the fly away races are 10 seconds a lap slower i.e brazil and mexico
TDeath21
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9/12/2012 9:14am
jamma10 wrote:
[i]Last year, I think Roczen would have gotten 1st or 2nd to Wilson in the 250 MX Championship. This year, however, Barcia and Tomac stepped it...
Last year, I think Roczen would have gotten 1st or 2nd to Wilson in the 250 MX Championship. This year, however, Barcia and Tomac stepped it up and Baggett became more consistent.

I agree. Unfortunately this is usually completely overlooked by the morons who like to shout about Roczen having "his ass handed to him" or whatever hyperbolic statement they choose for consistently finishing on the podium and leading a large number of laps over the course of the season.
Yes absolutely. Had those three riders not made huge leaps forward in terms of speed (Barcia, Tomac) and consistency (Baggett), then Roczen would have won this championship. It was all about those three stepping it up, not Roczen being a big fish entering a big pond for the first time.
mxgeoff
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9/12/2012 9:17am
Unadilla is among the fastest tracks on the circuit. It rutted up this year. I'll grant you that many of out tracks were faster than Brazil...
Unadilla is among the fastest tracks on the circuit. It rutted up this year.

I'll grant you that many of out tracks were faster than Brazil and Sweden this year. Wink Otherwise, the track "differences" between the two series seem to me to be immaterial for the most part other than the deep sand in the low countries. And I suspect that the tracks here are a bit longer given the FIM regs (which had to be suspended for Glen Helen when it was on the calendar).

Geoff, you said yourself a month or so ago that the "technical" aspects of the current GP tracks were more the artificial rhythm/timing sections than traditional old school features.

These supposed differences in travel burden and tracks seemed to get argued one way or another depending on how the wind blows.
FTE,

From memory GP circuits were wide open and dust, hahahaha. GP riders didn''t know a whoop from a double, remember Smets complaining in 1996 at the MXoN in Spain about the double jumps.

Thats changed big time and our tracks have a lot of supercross type sections, wave sections, little jumps here and there and some big jumps. But that slows riders down, it doesn''t make the circuit faster.

I don''t know, I keep hearing how AMA circuits are slow, but I keep hearing from riders who have raced them that they are wide open. I just comment on what I am told by riders. I don't use my own opinion, because I am not a racer and don''t have the balls to be one.

Geoff
jamma10
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9/12/2012 9:22am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 9:29am
Who the hell says AMA circuits are slow???

Most AMA circuits are filled with sections where the riders are absolutely pinned for a significant amount of time. There are few GP circuits where you can say that - to me that is one of most obvious differences in riding styles; the GP guys tend to chop the throttle more while the US guys keep the throttle wound on for longer and therefore carry a bit more momentum.
APLMAN99
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9/12/2012 9:25am
mxgeoff wrote:
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about...
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about who is better is just that BS. A non American racing in America has his back to the wall straight away, and because top American's don't want to race in Europe, we can never get a level idea of how they would deal with that change.

Even with the American economy being like it is the biggest money is still in America, maybe not like it was, but still it is a good place to earn a dollar if you are one of the top five guys. Europe does not pay their top five like America pay theirs and Americans are not interested in anything that is not American, so forget seeing a Villopoto, Dungey or Stewart doing the GPs.

What the whole Roczen affair has taught me is that the fastest MX2 rider in the World, and he clearly showed that in the 2010 and 2011 MXoN, beating all the top MX2 riders and a bunch of the leading MX1 and Open riders found it tough racing a series that suits the American riders.

No disrespect to Baggett, Barcia and Tomac, because clearly those guys are the fastest three 250cc riders in America, no matter who the World sent, but they can not lay claim to being the fastest MX2 riders in the World and there is no way of finding out if they are or not.

It doesn't matter who comes up against Herlings in Lommel, they ain''t going to beat him. His advantage in sand is even greater than the advantage the American riders have in America. he could crash and still pass nearly the whole field, MXoN or GP. Herling might just be the greatest sand rider we have ever seen, he is that good. Put him in the AMA series and he might finish 6th. Put an AMA rider up against him in sand and he will make them look slow.

So all the bragging about who is best can not be resolved by anything that has occured for non American riders racing in America and until we have a series with all the riders racing eachother, in different countries, then nobody knows who the best is.

We can guess that Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World (he gets my vote), but again it is just a guess.

Geoff
Interesting that the results of an entire series are basically invalid in your opinion, but the results of a one-off team race is solid evidence for you...........

You should stop having such an inferiority complex.........

Post a reply to: Until this happens anything we mention is BS

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