Lance Armstrong

Torco1 wrote:

I have no idea what really happened, but my question is in regards to the "witnesses". If he did indeed "dope" I find it odd that...

I have no idea what really happened, but my question is in regards to the "witnesses". If he did indeed "dope" I find it odd that it would be done in front of other people or even talked about around other people. You would think that it would be kept pretty secretive while it was going on. I mean, were there doping parties going on where they all just sat around and did what they had to do in front of each other? If I was a professional athlete and I was doping, I would make damn sure only myself and the doctor or whoever supplied it was the only other person that knew about it.

neverwasfastenuf wrote:

No doubt.

BAMX wrote:

I too think that he used PEDs but then again so did MOST of his competitors. What really troubles me is a conviction based solely on...

I too think that he used PEDs but then again so did MOST of his competitors. What really troubles me is a conviction based solely on hearsay evidence. He never tested dirty.

Cycling needs to stop the witch hunts for the better of the sport and just say that what happened in the past is in the past. They gain nothing by convicting a guy who has tested clean every time on the hearsay.

FYI DV12's twitter has a great link to top 5 finishers of the years Lance won. Essentially all of them have have been busted or implicated.

kongols wrote:

This is absolute bullshit. I hope somebody can prove that USADA has o jurisdiction to do that. Like somebody said in a other thread -USADA tactics...

This is absolute bullshit. I hope somebody can prove that USADA has o jurisdiction to do that. Like somebody said in a other thread -USADA tactics is that you are guilty until proven innocent. Bullshit lawyers. Only in Amerika.

ocscottie wrote:

If you read/watch/listen to some of the testimonials, they are pretty brutal, full blown "doping parties". There is some good info in the thread i started...

If you read/watch/listen to some of the testimonials, they are pretty brutal, full blown "doping parties". There is some good info in the thread i started in non-moto, but that thread has been "Pathetic'ized" Maybe the 1st couple pages are worth reading, after that...its just another Vitard fest.

Bigfoot wrote:

Anyone with even a passing interest in all of this should give this a listen: http://www.danpatrick.com/2012/08/24/usadas-tygart-comments-on-decision…

Hanaa80 wrote:

Total BS! Unbeliavable hypocrisy to dishonor just one guy, when it's pretty obvious that all top guys are taking PED's. Armstrong was and will allways be...

Total BS! Unbeliavable hypocrisy to dishonor just one guy, when it's pretty obvious that all top guys are taking PED's. Armstrong was and will allways be a badass.

neverwasfastenuf wrote:

Armstrong passed all of the approximately 500 tests he was given. He is either innocent, the tests were rigged to show his innocence, or he and/or...

Armstrong passed all of the approximately 500 tests he was given.

He is either innocent, the tests were rigged to show his innocence, or he and/or his people are smarter than those giving the test.

Can't believe they are able to consider him guilty of cheating unless they can substantiate that the test results were tampered with or get a positive on a test.

Seems like they have had a long time (in fact going over their time limit) to prove him guilty.

Prove something or get off his ass!

Hanaa80 wrote:

Total BS! Unbeliavable hypocrisy to dishonor just one guy, when it's pretty obvious that all top guys are taking PED's. Armstrong was and will allways be...

Total BS! Unbeliavable hypocrisy to dishonor just one guy, when it's pretty obvious that all top guys are taking PED's. Armstrong was and will allways be a badass.

Big wrote:

Yes you Finnish guys remember when whole Finlands skiteam was cought with their pants down! Whole Finnish Team was banned and dishonored for a long time...

Yes you Finnish guys remember when whole Finlands skiteam was cought with their pants down! Whole Finnish Team was banned and dishonored for a long time. Badasses? Today Finland is a B-nation in skiing without the dope. Finnish sisu was Ped nothing else and Armstrong is a scumbag pretending to collect millions of dollar to cancer. He's a f....n cheater and he and the other bikeguys should be banned for life. There was a Swedish tour d France cyclist got a 2 year penalty. He said same as some people on this forum....Buuuuhbuuuh everyone else is doing it so im no different? He got 4 year instead because he didn't realize that he was cheating. Game over for him. In MX it's like standing in the startcorner. Is that ok? Badass?

newmann wrote:

If they take the titles, who gets them? How far back in the peloton and the history of the sport do they have to go to...

If they take the titles, who gets them?

How far back in the peloton and the history of the sport do they have to go to declare a clean winner?

Hanaa80 wrote:

Total BS! Unbeliavable hypocrisy to dishonor just one guy, when it's pretty obvious that all top guys are taking PED's. Armstrong was and will allways be...

Total BS! Unbeliavable hypocrisy to dishonor just one guy, when it's pretty obvious that all top guys are taking PED's. Armstrong was and will allways be a badass.

Big wrote:

Yes you Finnish guys remember when whole Finlands skiteam was cought with their pants down! Whole Finnish Team was banned and dishonored for a long time...

Yes you Finnish guys remember when whole Finlands skiteam was cought with their pants down! Whole Finnish Team was banned and dishonored for a long time. Badasses? Today Finland is a B-nation in skiing without the dope. Finnish sisu was Ped nothing else and Armstrong is a scumbag pretending to collect millions of dollar to cancer. He's a f....n cheater and he and the other bikeguys should be banned for life. There was a Swedish tour d France cyclist got a 2 year penalty. He said same as some people on this forum....Buuuuhbuuuh everyone else is doing it so im no different? He got 4 year instead because he didn't realize that he was cheating. Game over for him. In MX it's like standing in the startcorner. Is that ok? Badass?

Hanaa80 wrote:

Sorry, but I couldn't care less about nordic skiing. There is no such thing as "clean" endurance sport at a professional level. And yes, i Do...

Sorry, but I couldn't care less about nordic skiing. There is no such thing as "clean" endurance sport at a professional level. And yes, i Do think that anyone who has beaten cancer is a badass.

kzizok wrote:

It's nice to see someone see through the "PR machine" that Lance Armstrong has behind him. My opinion has been, at the very beginning of these...

It's nice to see someone see through the "PR machine" that Lance Armstrong has behind him. My opinion has been, at the very beginning of these allegations, that he cheated. Furthermore, the Armstrong "story" has made him bigger than life and his PR people have perpetuated it for so long. The bottom line is that he isn't near the myth that he has promoted himself to be and at the end of the day A LOT of his success and popularity is based on cheating. I know about his battle with testicular cancer and while I would wish that upon no one in the world it has a 98% success rate which is much better than, let's say influenza. His Livestrong foundation has been a wonderful help to many of those that have need, no knock on that. All that I am saying is that most of his mantra has been based on a foundation of cheating. Finally, I realize that my opinon may not be the same as many, however, I am entitled to it and before those of you dismantle it, it really is an opinon of a whole and not just of one subject like cancer, et al.

Dsigner wrote:

Lets hear it for Greg LeMond the only American male to win the Tour!

Big wrote:

i Do think that anyone who has beaten cancer is a badass? Of course! But that wasn't the point here. He pretending to collect millions to...

i Do think that anyone who has beaten cancer is a badass? Of course! But that wasn't the point here. He pretending to collect millions to fight cancer. He put most dollart in his own pocket. He's not better than tv-priests begging for money in gods name and then take the limo to hookers. They are all fu....asses in my opinion. There is no such thing as "clean" endurance sport at a professional level? That is some real bullshit right there. 100%

mag23 wrote:

ok... so now what? USADA, great job guys! You deserve a medal, or something... you finally did it! Does anybody care what Lance Armstrong did, or...

ok... so now what? USADA, great job guys! You deserve a medal, or something... you finally did it! Does anybody care what Lance Armstrong did, or did not do? The only people that do care, have something to gain or lose... the population doesn't give a shit what Lance Armstrong did or didn't do. In a perfect world of irony, every cyclist from the seven tours, Lance won, would come out and say 'sorry, I'm a doper'. USADA is a disgrace... Lance, maybe is too, but I don't care what he took, America is a nation of 'win at all cost' people...

Neil_Romero wrote:

Wow, it truly does surprise me how so many supporters just continue to parrot "he's a badass" or "everyone cheated, so it doesnt matter". Oh well...

Wow, it truly does surprise me how so many supporters just continue to parrot "he's a badass" or "everyone cheated, so it doesnt matter".
Oh well - I'm done reading about Lance.
Back to moto.

Bigfoot wrote:

The jurisdiction question is a prime example of the huge PR machine that Lance has behind him as in reality there is absolutely no question that...

The jurisdiction question is a prime example of the huge PR machine that Lance has behind him as in reality there is absolutely no question that USADA has the authority. ANY US rider is licensed by USA Cycling (sort of the bicycling AMA). When accepting a license a racer accepts USAC rules, which state, "Section 1. USA Cycling has adopted and participates in the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) protocol. The USADA protocol is incorporated herein by reference and shall prevail over any USA Cycling Regulation to the contrary. Their medical control regulations shall apply to USA Cycling, its Associations, and all members, licensees, participants in races granted permits by USA Cycling or Associations, and organizations affiliated with USA Cycling or Associations. For information on or a copy of the USADA protocol can be obtained from USADA at (800) 233-0393 or the USADA web site www.usantidoping.org." Pretty cut and dry.

As to those who will dismiss that the evidence was all "hearsay," that again come straight from the Armstrong camp and is based on a misunderstanding of what hearsay evidence actually is. Example, a witness testifies, "Billy Bob told me that he saw Lance injecting EPO." THAT is hearsay. But, if Billy Bob himself testifies, "I saw Lance injecting EPO," THAT is direct testimony. The same type of direct testimony that convicted Sandusky.

Saying that it's all in the past is ridiculous. Lance last raced just two seasons ago and the very doctors and staffers who perpetuated his and his team's doping were still in the sport....until several of them were banned as a result of this case just a few weeks ago. Lance's right-hand man, Johan Bruyneel has also been named. He's the current director sportiff (team manager) for the Radio Shack team. So it's not all in the past...it's here and now. But unlike Lance, Bruyneel has chosen to accept arbitration. So it looks as if Lance's strategy of backing down and accepting his fate to prevent all of the evidence from being aired is going to backfire. It will all come out in the Bruyneel case.

kzizok wrote:

It's nice to see someone see through the "PR machine" that Lance Armstrong has behind him. My opinion has been, at the very beginning of these...

It's nice to see someone see through the "PR machine" that Lance Armstrong has behind him. My opinion has been, at the very beginning of these allegations, that he cheated. Furthermore, the Armstrong "story" has made him bigger than life and his PR people have perpetuated it for so long. The bottom line is that he isn't near the myth that he has promoted himself to be and at the end of the day A LOT of his success and popularity is based on cheating. I know about his battle with testicular cancer and while I would wish that upon no one in the world it has a 98% success rate which is much better than, let's say influenza. His Livestrong foundation has been a wonderful help to many of those that have need, no knock on that. All that I am saying is that most of his mantra has been based on a foundation of cheating. Finally, I realize that my opinon may not be the same as many, however, I am entitled to it and before those of you dismantle it, it really is an opinon of a whole and not just of one subject like cancer, et al.