Airforks/shocks really working?

Big
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Big
Edited Date/Time 1/17/2013 3:11pm
Only one rider in Nationals (Tickle) and Bobryshev crasching every second moto and doesn't look to happy about it. Lost a lot of speed as well. He used to be safe like a pacecar last season. I should keep my -12 suspension if i ride a Honda for sure. If it was that good , why on hearth don't the rest use them already?Wink
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newmann
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newmann 8/2/2012 9:25am
8/2/2012 9:25am
Works best with a 20 inch front tire. Laughing
Skip376
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Skip376 8/2/2012 9:32am
8/2/2012 9:32am
Why not try it for yourself before you judge?
T-Fish
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T-Fish 8/2/2012 9:35am
8/2/2012 9:35am
Skip376 wrote:
Why not try it for yourself before you judge?
That's not how it works around here.
Big
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Big 8/2/2012 9:57am
8/2/2012 9:57am
Tested airshocks back in the days (Fox) Also friends tested on skii-doos. They where dangerus when hot. Loong time ago of course.But they put it on new Hondas etc and do you seen them on many racers Hondas lately? Also putting in air is ridiculus. Every racer here knows what happens when temperature changes. That's why no one use it in rear shocks of course. And suddenly weekendwarriors should buy a pump?Laughing That's really funny as hell.....

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Big
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Big 8/2/2012 10:00am
8/2/2012 10:00am
newmann wrote:
Works best with a 20 inch front tire. Laughing
Yeah! Laughing They tested that too! I guess there is a younger generation of techs at Honda that was wearin dipers when we throw that crap away?
Skip376
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Skip376 8/2/2012 1:04pm
8/2/2012 1:04pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2012 1:06pm
Big wrote:
Tested airshocks back in the days (Fox) Also friends tested on skii-doos. They where dangerus when hot. Loong time ago of course.But they put it on...
Tested airshocks back in the days (Fox) Also friends tested on skii-doos. They where dangerus when hot. Loong time ago of course.But they put it on new Hondas etc and do you seen them on many racers Hondas lately? Also putting in air is ridiculus. Every racer here knows what happens when temperature changes. That's why no one use it in rear shocks of course. And suddenly weekendwarriors should buy a pump?Laughing That's really funny as hell.....
You will see them on many more bikes next year. I've even heard Bones from Pro Circuit say they're easier to setup for riders than normal suspension and really liked them.
rrdecals
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rrdecals 8/2/2012 1:07pm
8/2/2012 1:07pm
Question- So with the air fork are you going to have to check air pressure after every moto. Now we all bleed air out after,so bleed or fill I'm so confused!!
reded
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reded 8/2/2012 1:17pm
8/2/2012 1:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2012 1:23pm
There's a video somewhere in which Bones from Pro-Circuit explains how the system works..
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reded 8/2/2012 1:26pm
8/2/2012 1:26pm
Here
Motodave15
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Motodave15 8/2/2012 1:29pm
8/2/2012 1:29pm
I was at my buddies shop last night.. and my dad and him were talking about the ssf forks and how fox had a air system back in the day

and the fox air fork back in the day was really dangerous etc, so there really wondering how this fork will hold up for alot of riders... (im too young to remember the fox air forks... so i have no idea what they were talking about in that respect )

so far i do know. if i have the cash I'm going to buy them hahaha.
UpTiTe 8/2/2012 1:35pm
8/2/2012 1:35pm
Big wrote:
Only one rider in Nationals (Tickle) and Bobryshev crasching every second moto and doesn't look to happy about it. Lost a lot of speed as well...
Only one rider in Nationals (Tickle) and Bobryshev crasching every second moto and doesn't look to happy about it. Lost a lot of speed as well. He used to be safe like a pacecar last season. I should keep my -12 suspension if i ride a Honda for sure. If it was that good , why on hearth don't the rest use them already?Wink
The whole PC team is running them and has for two years now.
mx317
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mx317 8/2/2012 1:41pm
8/2/2012 1:41pm
I like mine on my 2013 KX450F, that's all that matters.
newmann
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newmann 8/2/2012 1:51pm
8/2/2012 1:51pm
Big wrote:
Only one rider in Nationals (Tickle) and Bobryshev crasching every second moto and doesn't look to happy about it. Lost a lot of speed as well...
Only one rider in Nationals (Tickle) and Bobryshev crasching every second moto and doesn't look to happy about it. Lost a lot of speed as well. He used to be safe like a pacecar last season. I should keep my -12 suspension if i ride a Honda for sure. If it was that good , why on hearth don't the rest use them already?Wink
UpTiTe wrote:
The whole PC team is running them and has for two years now.
SFF or SSF?
Bret
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Bret 8/2/2012 1:52pm
8/2/2012 1:52pm
Air forks do not generate enough heat to result in a large pressure increase. The pressure may go up slightly, but not enough to make big difference. As for using nitrogen vs air, the difference is negligible for an air fork. Fill one leg up with air and the other with nitrogen, go ride, check the pressure in both forks, and you will see that it is not worth worrying about.
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Bret 8/2/2012 1:53pm
8/2/2012 1:53pm
By the way, the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen.
Big
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Big 8/2/2012 3:12pm
8/2/2012 3:12pm
Thanks for info gentlemen. Not sure whole PC-team use them? I personally belive it's gonna be a extreme odd feeling without the distinct stiffness you got with springs? Personally been on Ohlinstests when rider sayes they are too "smooth" or they are too "good". They want a stiffer feeling not like jumping on a big football. But you guys know the testdeal sometimes? Most riders can't put words on a feeling. Honda have 2 riders in the GP that looks like they are afraid to push their limit. Opposit Bagget who just pull the trigger. How much air do he needs when overjumping many times? No way he use airfork in my opinion.Unsure
fmfred
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fmfred 8/2/2012 3:36pm
8/2/2012 3:36pm
I thought PC has been running showa SFF forks for the past two years, they are different then the kyb air forks.
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 8/2/2012 4:04pm
8/2/2012 4:04pm
Bret wrote:
Air forks do not generate enough heat to result in a large pressure increase. The pressure may go up slightly, but not enough to make big...
Air forks do not generate enough heat to result in a large pressure increase. The pressure may go up slightly, but not enough to make big difference. As for using nitrogen vs air, the difference is negligible for an air fork. Fill one leg up with air and the other with nitrogen, go ride, check the pressure in both forks, and you will see that it is not worth worrying about.
Removing the water is what makes the difference. Running dehumidified air will work exactly the same as pure nitrogen

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Bret
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Bret 8/2/2012 4:24pm
8/2/2012 4:24pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Removing the water is what makes the difference. Running dehumidified air will work exactly the same as pure nitrogen
Dry air is definitely the best.
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GuyB 8/2/2012 5:43pm
8/2/2012 5:43pm
Skip376 wrote:
Why not try it for yourself before you judge?
T-Fish wrote:
That's not how it works around here.
It does for people with common sense.
machine
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machine 8/2/2012 5:58pm
8/2/2012 5:58pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Removing the water is what makes the difference. Running dehumidified air will work exactly the same as pure nitrogen
Bret wrote:
Dry air is definitely the best.
I would assume nitrogen would be the bestest.
machine
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machine 8/2/2012 5:59pm
8/2/2012 5:59pm
mx317 wrote:
I like mine on my 2013 KX450F, that's all that matters.
you should do a little write up for us poor folk who can't get a 2013. Tell us how they differ.
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T-MAC 8/2/2012 6:08pm
8/2/2012 6:08pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2012 6:11pm
rrdecals wrote:
Question- So with the air fork are you going to have to check air pressure after every moto. Now we all bleed air out after,so bleed...
Question- So with the air fork are you going to have to check air pressure after every moto. Now we all bleed air out after,so bleed or fill I'm so confused!!
Air in an oil bathed system = bad. Air in an air based system = supposed to be there. The air that you get in your oil bath system is from cavitation (The oil bubbling up). This won't happen in the air system. Now you should periodically check the pressure to make sure it's maintaining the correct psi. The endless possibilities of effortlessly experimenting with spring rates is really cool to me. Just thread the shock pump on and go to town.

This tech has been used in mtb for years and more and more of the world cup dh dudes are switching over to it. Almost all of them run air forks now and most run air shocks in the rear.

EDIT: I also think that air forks will have much better bottom feel to them. The system we use now is a lot more linear of a stroke than you can achieve with air springs I'm pretty sure.

I know on the forks on my dh bike, the air forks ramp up pretty good at the end of the stroke and alleviate harsh bottom-outs big time.
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 8/2/2012 6:16pm
8/2/2012 6:16pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Removing the water is what makes the difference. Running dehumidified air will work exactly the same as pure nitrogen
Bret wrote:
Dry air is definitely the best.
machine wrote:
I would assume nitrogen would be the bestest.
There's no significant difference. The heat capacity of oxygen and nitrogen are pretty much the same.
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machine 8/2/2012 6:20pm
8/2/2012 6:20pm
Bret wrote:
Dry air is definitely the best.
machine wrote:
I would assume nitrogen would be the bestest.
Derpin' DJ wrote:
There's no significant difference. The heat capacity of oxygen and nitrogen are pretty much the same.
It's the dry factor I was refering to. Moist air heats up and expands right? Heck, they use nitrogen in tires for that reason. I'm just guessing here, I have no clue about these new fangled dealeos.
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 8/2/2012 6:33pm
8/2/2012 6:33pm
Any gas expands when heated. But the moisture acts differently to oxygen and nitrogen. Dry air would work the same as Nitrogen, but nitrogen is pretty cheap so they just use that. People don't often have the need for dry air
machine
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machine 8/2/2012 6:37pm
8/2/2012 6:37pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Any gas expands when heated. But the moisture acts differently to oxygen and nitrogen. Dry air would work the same as Nitrogen, but nitrogen is pretty...
Any gas expands when heated. But the moisture acts differently to oxygen and nitrogen. Dry air would work the same as Nitrogen, but nitrogen is pretty cheap so they just use that. People don't often have the need for dry air
The weird thing, is they show the technicians using a standard air pump when adjusting the forks.
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T-MAC 8/2/2012 6:55pm
8/2/2012 6:55pm Edited Date/Time 8/2/2012 6:56pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Any gas expands when heated. But the moisture acts differently to oxygen and nitrogen. Dry air would work the same as Nitrogen, but nitrogen is pretty...
Any gas expands when heated. But the moisture acts differently to oxygen and nitrogen. Dry air would work the same as Nitrogen, but nitrogen is pretty cheap so they just use that. People don't often have the need for dry air
machine wrote:
The weird thing, is they show the technicians using a standard air pump when adjusting the forks.
They are high pressure pumps though. A regular floor pump won't work. They push small volumes of air at high pressures. Floor pumps push large volumes of air at low pressures.
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 8/2/2012 7:21pm
8/2/2012 7:21pm
The forks rest position of the forks are only just above atmospheric pressure, you don't need high pressure.

I don't think running regular air would be all that bad. The fork temperature probably doesn't get anywhere near as hot as road tyres, so there's no real point running a dry gas.
mx317
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mx317 8/2/2012 7:31pm
8/2/2012 7:31pm
T-MAC wrote:
They are high pressure pumps though. A regular floor pump won't work. They push small volumes of air at high pressures. Floor pumps push large volumes...
They are high pressure pumps though. A regular floor pump won't work. They push small volumes of air at high pressures. Floor pumps push large volumes of air at low pressures.
They are not high pressure pumps. They are 0-60 psi pumps and are very common. The standard pressure for a KX450F is 35 lbs and I used a regular pump and no loss gauge until I got the pump from Kawasaki. I have found the same pump that Kawasaki sells on eBay for $39. It is made by Progressive suspension.

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