What's wrong with Showtime?

Fred Boss Mx Dion
Edited Date/Time 7/3/2012 8:36am
The threads that claim that this rider was the best or that rider was the fastest are always turning up on this blog ( and I'm guilty of this myself ) It has occurred to me that nobody ever includes Mc Grath in these lists of fast guys...Wonder why?
He had something like 85 career national wins and around 10 Championships..
|
Stooperbike
Profile picture for user Stooperbike
Posts
270
Joined
10/6/2008
Location
Salem, NH, USA
Stooperbike 7/2/2012 12:37pm
7/2/2012 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2012 12:37pm
With all do respect to MC, maybe we are talking modern day riders? I love the guy! I remember watching the opening supercross when he was going to ride KTM and announced his retirement, me and my buddies cried, I shit you not, there was not a dry eye in the room.
Pool-eh
Profile picture for user Pool-eh
Posts
159
Joined
12/5/2010
Location
Henderson, NV, USA
Pool-eh 7/2/2012 12:37pm
7/2/2012 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2012 12:38pm
Because to be considered the "best" or "goat", you need to dominate both series. He has 1 250 mx title and a ton of sx. That's why rc is the goat. He dominated both for a good while. Plus, most fans of the sport hold outdoors higher than sx. Even though the outside world is the opposite.
neverwasfastenuf 7/2/2012 12:43pm
7/2/2012 12:43pm
"The King" found his niche, had the balls to say he was going to ride SX only and got away with it while still having his choice of sponsors, and extended his career in the process. How anyone can think any less of him for doing so is unfair.
DC
Profile picture for user DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
DC 7/2/2012 12:43pm
7/2/2012 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2012 12:54pm
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors -- he did not race much outdoors after '97 -- I am sure he would have way, way more outdoor wins and at least a couple more titles. He was a badass outdoors too.

On the Mt. Rushmore of American motocross/supercross, in my personal opinion, is Hannah, Johnson, McGrath and Carmichael.... In a few years we may need to carve out space for Stewart or RV or Dungey, a lot of races left for those guys to run.

On the Mt. Rushmore of visitors, I would put Roger DeCoster, Pierre Karsmakers, JMB, Chad Reed. (I am too young to know just how brilliant Torsten Hallman was in his prime.)

Sorry, just love a good bench race!

DC
MX Sports

The Shop

See All »
neverwasfastenuf 7/2/2012 12:47pm
7/2/2012 12:47pm
DC wrote:
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors...
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors -- he did not race much outdoors after '97 -- I am sure he would have way, way more outdoor wins and at least a couple more titles. He was a badass outdoors too.

On the Mt. Rushmore of American motocross/supercross, in my personal opinion, is Hannah, Johnson, McGrath and Carmichael.... In a few years we may need to carve out space for Stewart or RV or Dungey, a lot of races left for those guys to run.

On the Mt. Rushmore of visitors, I would put Roger DeCoster, Pierre Karsmakers, JMB, Chad Reed. (I am too young to know just how brilliant Torsten Hallman was in his prime.)

Sorry, just love a good bench race!

DC
MX Sports
Yep, nice choices on your lists.
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27635
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
jeffro503 7/2/2012 12:56pm
7/2/2012 12:56pm
MC was a badass plain and simple. He may not of been the the best "overall" type rider when you combine the two ( MX and SX ). BUT....in SX , he is and always will be the king until someone knocks that 72 wins off the top.

Jeremy has nothing to be bummed at when idiots don't mention his name.......Hell , even the goat couldn't beat his SX record!
TannerMxer
Profile picture for user TannerMxer
Posts
1496
Joined
1/5/2010
Location
Ventura, CA, USA
TannerMxer 7/2/2012 1:32pm
7/2/2012 1:32pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2012 1:32pm
DC wrote:
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors...
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors -- he did not race much outdoors after '97 -- I am sure he would have way, way more outdoor wins and at least a couple more titles. He was a badass outdoors too.

On the Mt. Rushmore of American motocross/supercross, in my personal opinion, is Hannah, Johnson, McGrath and Carmichael.... In a few years we may need to carve out space for Stewart or RV or Dungey, a lot of races left for those guys to run.

On the Mt. Rushmore of visitors, I would put Roger DeCoster, Pierre Karsmakers, JMB, Chad Reed. (I am too young to know just how brilliant Torsten Hallman was in his prime.)

Sorry, just love a good bench race!

DC
MX Sports
The takeaway from this post...

Seriously, we need an excellent artist to draw/paint a Mount Rushmore picture with Hannah, Johnson, McGrath, Carmichael, Stewart and Villopoto on it. Let's say a 72x24 poster and sell that. I would buy it.

Honestly, make it happen. I would totally buy it. Rob Kinsey, where are you for this?

EDIT: Oh, and Wardy.
Utrider
Profile picture for user Utrider
Posts
460
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
West Haven, UT, USA
Utrider 7/2/2012 1:35pm
7/2/2012 1:35pm
Jeremy has come to northern Utah the last several summers and raced the Powder Mountain MX. He has such an effortless style, and just toys with other pros who show up. His casual attitude off the track and friendly smile go a long way toward making others feel very comfortable around him. Truly a great representative of our sport and role model for how to do things right when you are ready to move on in life.
Pool-eh
Profile picture for user Pool-eh
Posts
159
Joined
12/5/2010
Location
Henderson, NV, USA
Pool-eh 7/2/2012 1:38pm
7/2/2012 1:38pm
Like the rushmore idea. Who takes what presidents spot though?
xnationalwrench 7/2/2012 2:02pm
7/2/2012 2:02pm
DC wrote:
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors...
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors -- he did not race much outdoors after '97 -- I am sure he would have way, way more outdoor wins and at least a couple more titles. He was a badass outdoors too.

On the Mt. Rushmore of American motocross/supercross, in my personal opinion, is Hannah, Johnson, McGrath and Carmichael.... In a few years we may need to carve out space for Stewart or RV or Dungey, a lot of races left for those guys to run.

On the Mt. Rushmore of visitors, I would put Roger DeCoster, Pierre Karsmakers, JMB, Chad Reed. (I am too young to know just how brilliant Torsten Hallman was in his prime.)

Sorry, just love a good bench race!

DC
MX Sports
I would also add Gary Jones & Tony D to the list (I know they were pretty much before SUPERCROSS but with what they did in MX they would have figured out SUPERCROSS).
Stooperbike
Profile picture for user Stooperbike
Posts
270
Joined
10/6/2008
Location
Salem, NH, USA
Stooperbike 7/2/2012 2:03pm
7/2/2012 2:03pm
Pool-eh wrote:
Like the rushmore idea. Who takes what presidents spot though?
George washington, Roger Decoster
Thomas Jeferson, Rick Johnson
Roosevelt, Bob Hannah
Lincoln, Mcgrath
Fred Boss Mx Dion 7/2/2012 2:28pm
7/2/2012 2:28pm
neverwasfastenuf wrote:
"The King" found his niche, had the balls to say he was going to ride SX only and got away with it while still having his...
"The King" found his niche, had the balls to say he was going to ride SX only and got away with it while still having his choice of sponsors, and extended his career in the process. How anyone can think any less of him for doing so is unfair.
Jeremy had pretty much the same winning mentality as RC, RJ, Hannah' and others in that he had a way of reaching down to find more speed when he needed it...A rare talent, indeed.
Park Boys
Profile picture for user Park Boys
Posts
3852
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
Park Boys 7/2/2012 5:05pm
7/2/2012 5:05pm
If Showtime would have beat Emig at his fav MX track in Steel City 1996, not a soul would be saying MC was SX only and would show him more respect, But he didnt.
Park Boys
Profile picture for user Park Boys
Posts
3852
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
Park Boys 7/2/2012 5:06pm
7/2/2012 5:06pm
DC wrote:
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors...
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors -- he did not race much outdoors after '97 -- I am sure he would have way, way more outdoor wins and at least a couple more titles. He was a badass outdoors too.

On the Mt. Rushmore of American motocross/supercross, in my personal opinion, is Hannah, Johnson, McGrath and Carmichael.... In a few years we may need to carve out space for Stewart or RV or Dungey, a lot of races left for those guys to run.

On the Mt. Rushmore of visitors, I would put Roger DeCoster, Pierre Karsmakers, JMB, Chad Reed. (I am too young to know just how brilliant Torsten Hallman was in his prime.)

Sorry, just love a good bench race!

DC
MX Sports
DC, I Think we need a 50 fastest list of all time. Transworld did it awhile ago, I think its time for a new one!!
Fred Boss Mx Dion 7/2/2012 5:17pm
7/2/2012 5:17pm
Park Boys wrote:
If Showtime would have beat Emig at his fav MX track in Steel City 1996, not a soul would be saying MC was SX only and...
If Showtime would have beat Emig at his fav MX track in Steel City 1996, not a soul would be saying MC was SX only and would show him more respect, But he didnt.
Showtime would have taken the 96 title, too, if he hadn't got injured at Millville, although Emig was a badass himself.
HuskyEd
Profile picture for user HuskyEd
Posts
5215
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Palmdale, CA, USA
HuskyEd 7/2/2012 5:23pm
7/2/2012 5:23pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2012 5:24pm
DC wrote:
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors...
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors -- he did not race much outdoors after '97 -- I am sure he would have way, way more outdoor wins and at least a couple more titles. He was a badass outdoors too.

On the Mt. Rushmore of American motocross/supercross, in my personal opinion, is Hannah, Johnson, McGrath and Carmichael.... In a few years we may need to carve out space for Stewart or RV or Dungey, a lot of races left for those guys to run.

On the Mt. Rushmore of visitors, I would put Roger DeCoster, Pierre Karsmakers, JMB, Chad Reed. (I am too young to know just how brilliant Torsten Hallman was in his prime.)

Sorry, just love a good bench race!

DC
MX Sports
xnationalwrench wrote:
I would also add Gary Jones & Tony D to the list (I know they were pretty much before SUPERCROSS but with what they did in...
I would also add Gary Jones & Tony D to the list (I know they were pretty much before SUPERCROSS but with what they did in MX they would have figured out SUPERCROSS).
What, no love for Brad Lackey? Put the U.S. on the world map in 82.
Fred Boss Mx Dion 7/2/2012 5:28pm
7/2/2012 5:28pm
HuskyEd wrote:
What, no love for Brad Lackey? Put the U.S. on the world map in 82.
Brad is immortal, as is De Coster!!
HuskyEd
Profile picture for user HuskyEd
Posts
5215
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Palmdale, CA, USA
HuskyEd 7/2/2012 5:31pm
7/2/2012 5:31pm
HuskyEd wrote:
What, no love for Brad Lackey? Put the U.S. on the world map in 82.
Fred Boss Mx Dion wrote:
Brad is immortal, as is De Coster!!
Smile

Pit Row

See All »
Park Boys
Profile picture for user Park Boys
Posts
3852
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
Park Boys 7/2/2012 5:45pm
7/2/2012 5:45pm
Park Boys wrote:
If Showtime would have beat Emig at his fav MX track in Steel City 1996, not a soul would be saying MC was SX only and...
If Showtime would have beat Emig at his fav MX track in Steel City 1996, not a soul would be saying MC was SX only and would show him more respect, But he didnt.
Fred Boss Mx Dion wrote:
Showtime would have taken the 96 title, too, if he hadn't got injured at Millville, although Emig was a badass himself.
He would not have taking the title because he lost it in the last race fair and square, who ever won the race won the title and that was Emig, I see were you are coming from but he made 1 huge huge mistake and Emig did not.
mark_swart
Profile picture for user mark_swart
Posts
2523
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Chapin, SC, USA
mark_swart 7/2/2012 7:45pm
7/2/2012 7:45pm
DC -- totally respect your opinion and I love RJ with every stitch of my hot pink zebra stripe Fox pants, but I have to question if Bailey shouldn't be on there instead of him? I loved watching RJ but even 20 years later I still SEE Bailey in so many riders -- he defined a style that has become the basis everyone works from. So what gives RJ the nod over DB -- pure wins? RJ's bigger than life persona? The way he could dig beyond his limits to go fast enough to catch anyone? I'm not really disagreeing so much as I'm interested in your thoughts.
It's interesting that we talk about 'woulda couldas' with MC... just think about all the woulda couldas with both RJ and DB.
Back to the OP -- there's nothing wrong with MC. I think pretty much everyone gives MC his dues, it's just that he was so awesome at SX his MX abilities were overshadowed.
Foo723
Profile picture for user Foo723
Posts
197
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Pensacola, FL, USA
Foo723 7/2/2012 7:48pm
7/2/2012 7:48pm
DC,

i would replace jeff ward over johnson on mt rushmore, but that just brings me to my point ... our sport has too many worthy champions for mt rushmore .... and i dont see nary a marty smith in sight .... one of our first american superstars.

and i can name another twenty champions easy, just on memory, and why i like them.

how many characters (Disciples) at the top of the outer perimeter of the Vatican ... 12? we need more. sounds like we need to break out a champions deck of cards, then we can civially discuss who gets the ace spots and so on. sorry for the rambling, its late and i need to turn in.

xnationationalwrenchx what the heck you doing in illinois? i thought you were a dothan boy for life?
mark_swart
Profile picture for user mark_swart
Posts
2523
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Chapin, SC, USA
mark_swart 7/2/2012 7:56pm
7/2/2012 7:56pm
Foo723 wrote:
DC, i would replace jeff ward over johnson on mt rushmore, but that just brings me to my point ... our sport has too many worthy...
DC,

i would replace jeff ward over johnson on mt rushmore, but that just brings me to my point ... our sport has too many worthy champions for mt rushmore .... and i dont see nary a marty smith in sight .... one of our first american superstars.

and i can name another twenty champions easy, just on memory, and why i like them.

how many characters (Disciples) at the top of the outer perimeter of the Vatican ... 12? we need more. sounds like we need to break out a champions deck of cards, then we can civially discuss who gets the ace spots and so on. sorry for the rambling, its late and i need to turn in.

xnationationalwrenchx what the heck you doing in illinois? i thought you were a dothan boy for life?
Maybe we should do a "Last Supper" of MX painting?!? Now it gets really dicey for who should be 'the big guy'
SMITH201
Profile picture for user SMITH201
Posts
1994
Joined
1/9/2007
Location
Frederick, MD, USA
SMITH201 7/2/2012 8:13pm
7/2/2012 8:13pm
Park Boys wrote:
If Showtime would have beat Emig at his fav MX track in Steel City 1996, not a soul would be saying MC was SX only and...
If Showtime would have beat Emig at his fav MX track in Steel City 1996, not a soul would be saying MC was SX only and would show him more respect, But he didnt.
Fred Boss Mx Dion wrote:
Showtime would have taken the 96 title, too, if he hadn't got injured at Millville, although Emig was a badass himself.
Park Boys wrote:
He would not have taking the title because he lost it in the last race fair and square, who ever won the race won the title...
He would not have taking the title because he lost it in the last race fair and square, who ever won the race won the title and that was Emig, I see were you are coming from but he made 1 huge huge mistake and Emig did not.
I believe MC said in his book or one of his interviews a while back that he regrets not finishing a moto a Washougal that year when he probably could have just gutted it out and scored a few points. He thought with his big points lead that he would be ok but, every point counts.
MCfan4life
Profile picture for user MCfan4life
Posts
5731
Joined
6/25/2009
Location
Qld, AU
MCfan4life 7/3/2012 4:30am
7/3/2012 4:30am
Not just 'anybody' gets a Legend's poster!

MCfan4life
Profile picture for user MCfan4life
Posts
5731
Joined
6/25/2009
Location
Qld, AU
MCfan4life 7/3/2012 4:31am
7/3/2012 4:31am
jeffro503 wrote:
MC was a badass plain and simple. He may not of been the the best "overall" type rider when you combine the two ( MX and...
MC was a badass plain and simple. He may not of been the the best "overall" type rider when you combine the two ( MX and SX ). BUT....in SX , he is and always will be the king until someone knocks that 72 wins off the top.

Jeremy has nothing to be bummed at when idiots don't mention his name.......Hell , even the goat couldn't beat his SX record!
"Hell, even the goat couldn't beat his SX record!"

I don't think anyone ever will Jeffro Wink
Park Boys
Profile picture for user Park Boys
Posts
3852
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
USA
Park Boys 7/3/2012 6:17am
7/3/2012 6:17am
jeffro503 wrote:
MC was a badass plain and simple. He may not of been the the best "overall" type rider when you combine the two ( MX and...
MC was a badass plain and simple. He may not of been the the best "overall" type rider when you combine the two ( MX and SX ). BUT....in SX , he is and always will be the king until someone knocks that 72 wins off the top.

Jeremy has nothing to be bummed at when idiots don't mention his name.......Hell , even the goat couldn't beat his SX record!
MCfan4life wrote:
"Hell, even the goat couldn't beat his SX record!"

I don't think anyone ever will Jeffro Wink
There is a big difference when RC walked away with 48 Wins he left while still being able to win and win titles, Jeremy got every last win he could have out of his career which is good for him.
Fred Boss Mx Dion 7/3/2012 6:25am
7/3/2012 6:25am
HuskyEd wrote:
Smile
Why not " THE SUPREME COURT OF MOTOCROSS'

A list of characters that affected the sport in their own unique ways:

Edison Dye
Super Hunky
Mike Goodwin
Evel Knevel
Motocross Cat
Malcolm Smith
Bill Spencer
Steve Mc Queen
And Chief Justice.....Bevo
Huckster
Profile picture for user Huckster
Posts
2585
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Woodstock, NY, USA
Huckster 7/3/2012 7:09am
7/3/2012 7:09am
DC wrote:
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors...
MC = 72 AMA Supercross main events, 17 outdoor national wins. Eight major titles, all but one in SX. No matter, had he applied himself outdoors -- he did not race much outdoors after '97 -- I am sure he would have way, way more outdoor wins and at least a couple more titles. He was a badass outdoors too.

On the Mt. Rushmore of American motocross/supercross, in my personal opinion, is Hannah, Johnson, McGrath and Carmichael.... In a few years we may need to carve out space for Stewart or RV or Dungey, a lot of races left for those guys to run.

On the Mt. Rushmore of visitors, I would put Roger DeCoster, Pierre Karsmakers, JMB, Chad Reed. (I am too young to know just how brilliant Torsten Hallman was in his prime.)

Sorry, just love a good bench race!

DC
MX Sports
No Everts on the visitors wall? WOW.....
DC
Profile picture for user DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
DC 7/3/2012 8:13am
7/3/2012 8:13am
Nope, no Everts on that visitors' wall -- Harry won a single Trans-AMA race on a Puch back in '74, Stefan only won the '93 Budds Creek 250cc USGP. It's about what these guys did IN America, which is also why Lackey (and Jim Pomeroy) are not on there. While they gave up the best years of their careers in chasing world titles, they get on any "all-time" list except the very short one I carved out on my mental Mt. Rushmore. And while I love David Bailey, Jeff Ward, Broc Glover and Mark Barnett, Rick Johnson won more and was more dominant in the premiere class, in both SX/MX combined....

I like the Last Supper or Supreme Court ideas!

DC
MX Sports
Fred Boss Mx Dion 7/3/2012 8:36am
7/3/2012 8:36am
DC wrote:
Nope, no Everts on that visitors' wall -- Harry won a single Trans-AMA race on a Puch back in '74, Stefan only won the '93 Budds...
Nope, no Everts on that visitors' wall -- Harry won a single Trans-AMA race on a Puch back in '74, Stefan only won the '93 Budds Creek 250cc USGP. It's about what these guys did IN America, which is also why Lackey (and Jim Pomeroy) are not on there. While they gave up the best years of their careers in chasing world titles, they get on any "all-time" list except the very short one I carved out on my mental Mt. Rushmore. And while I love David Bailey, Jeff Ward, Broc Glover and Mark Barnett, Rick Johnson won more and was more dominant in the premiere class, in both SX/MX combined....

I like the Last Supper or Supreme Court ideas!

DC
MX Sports
And I'll add another list,

Great Innovators that haven't been mentioned:

Preston Petty..What can you say...

Bruce Brown..Brought " On Any Sunday " to the world..

Don Jones..You've heard of the Jones Boys...

Geoff Fox...Great early innovator...( and brother Bob )

Mitch Payton...Just the best team owner-manager that ever lived

Tom White...Single handedly changed the face of MX and destroyed 2-stroke racing with his brilliant 4-stroke tech

Post a reply to: What's wrong with Showtime?