Thanks FMF For Helping a Privateer

motoeast
Posts
2
Joined
4/26/2012
Location
Ocala, FL, USA
Edited Date/Time 4/27/2012 12:09pm
Hey guys.. Im not here to start trouble. I just thought I should express my experience from this year. I was signed up to race several of the East Coast SX races. The first being ATL. Well we showed up ready to roll fresh packed pipe for sound.. After Failing sound 7 times and then 3 times with a brand new pipe we had (all FMF). We finally figured out a way to shut the bike up. (from the help of the mobile fmf rider support rep). For those of you who care, Im sure you can fill in the blanks. FMF knows exactly who I am. I rode under their support for 5 years, and what the rider support rep was asking them had been done multiple times.

ME to FMF Rider Support Rep:
I'm leaving for Daytona this Sunday. Would like exhaust before I leave if possible. If not I'll have to send to a address in Florida.
--
This message was forwarded to FMF From THEIR support rep (I removed his name since he was a huge help):

Hey Jeff, Our rider is riding SX on a 10' CRF250. What can we do about getting
him a RCT muffler? Will you get back with him? Also since this is the case
would it be worthwhile just to have the shop make a run of 5 so we had them
on standby for guys like this? If they sat on the shelf after the season we
could sell them at the track prob. Just wondering?

Trackside Support
www.FMFracing.com
--
From FMF:
Eric, would need to purchase a 2011 subframe to make the 4.1 RCT muffler work on his bike. Unfortunately Honda changed the muffler mount on the 2011 models from 2010. 2011 subframe works perfect!
--
ME to FMF:
I can't afford a new pipe and a subframe. I guess I'll have to find a different company who I can get exhaust from so I can pass sound.... Really sucks. I have been very happy with fmf
--
From FMF:
You can run our 94db insert if you need to pass sound. If you are ridding at the supercross level you should think about updating to the better performance and sound 4.1 RCT muffler for the future.

Thanks!
--
From ME to FMF:
Yeah that's what we tried. As well as a new pipe. Still didn't pass. I definately want to upgrade. Just money is so tight
--
From FMF:
Usually on new pipes its good to run for about 10-15 minutes to break in the muffler packing. You can always try and tape up your airbox? Rags in airbox?

So I guess I should fork out the $600 bucks for a new frame THEN their exhaust, or as FMF suggested: "Tape or Rag the airbox". Remember I was willing to buy the new exhaust...the one they modified to work for the older bike.
|
500guy
Posts
12469
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
4/26/2012 3:24pm
it's 2012 and you are racing a 2010 ?

What do you possibly hope to gain by racing SX on a 2 yr old bike ? What's a night show pay $200 after a $230 entry fee ?
Landshark
Posts
450
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
4/26/2012 3:29pm
Just buy a ticket to the nights show.... you will probably end up watching anyways and it will be cheaper.
wawazat
Posts
816
Joined
5/6/2011
Location
Corona, CA, USA
4/26/2012 4:53pm
Damn you guys are harsh. I thought we all loved the privateer, yes even the guy with a bike a couple years old? Guess not. I say switch to a Yosh pipe. I suck, but I had a problem with a my Yosh pipe and they really hooked me up. I had to pay for it, but I did get three extra clamps, in case it breaks again. They only charged me for one. Pro Yosh!!
500guy
Posts
12469
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
4/26/2012 4:59pm
wawazat wrote:
Damn you guys are harsh. I thought we all loved the privateer, yes even the guy with a bike a couple years old? Guess not. I...
Damn you guys are harsh. I thought we all loved the privateer, yes even the guy with a bike a couple years old? Guess not. I say switch to a Yosh pipe. I suck, but I had a problem with a my Yosh pipe and they really hooked me up. I had to pay for it, but I did get three extra clamps, in case it breaks again. They only charged me for one. Pro Yosh!!
I do love the Privateer's but there comes a time when you can't afford to race at that level.

My point being, He could do better for less at a local race. not bashing anyone.

And the whole stuffing the Air Box with Rags and Taping it is fine until you get tested after the race.

The Shop

Xeno
Posts
3740
Joined
12/30/2010
Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
4/26/2012 5:11pm
So the pipe vendor sucks because they won't make a compliant muffler for a bike that nobody else is racing?
Triton
Posts
618
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
Redmond, WA, USA
4/26/2012 5:17pm
Looks like FMF did what they could to help you. Sure you tried some of the things they suggested. Looks like the attitude adjustment needs to come from you not FMF. Immediately throwing out the "... I guess I'll have to try a new company.." while trying to get help tells a lot. Good luck to you.

I do media coaching on the side, I'd be happy to help so you don't stick your foot in your mouth next time.
4/26/2012 5:19pm
Xeno wrote:
So the pipe vendor sucks because they won't make a compliant muffler for a bike that nobody else is racing?
Who says nobody else is racing it? I'm sure there are other guys in supercross and all across
the country who still have a 2010. FMF is a great company and one I rode for my whole time in
the amateur scene except my last 2 years when I went to White Brothers, It does seem to me a
little crazy that they made this sweet new exhaust for the '11 and '12, but couldnt manufacture one
with the bracket just a little offset, and a different tweak to the midpipe if needed with the subframe.
And 500guy's pretty much right on the Local Level Pro races. I made 3-450$ racing the pro class
out at Boulder City in Nevada, and that was with 4-5 pros at 150% payback.
BAMX
Posts
2899
Joined
1/22/2012
Location
Fallbrook, CA, USA
4/26/2012 5:32pm
500guy wrote:
it's 2012 and you are racing a 2010 ? What do you possibly hope to gain by racing SX on a 2 yr old bike...
it's 2012 and you are racing a 2010 ?

What do you possibly hope to gain by racing SX on a 2 yr old bike ? What's a night show pay $200 after a $230 entry fee ?
Then don't complain that there are 32 guys going for 40 spots in the night show.
35smom
Posts
1428
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Asbury, USA
4/26/2012 5:33pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2012 5:41pm
wawazat wrote:
Damn you guys are harsh. I thought we all loved the privateer, yes even the guy with a bike a couple years old? Guess not. I...
Damn you guys are harsh. I thought we all loved the privateer, yes even the guy with a bike a couple years old? Guess not. I say switch to a Yosh pipe. I suck, but I had a problem with a my Yosh pipe and they really hooked me up. I had to pay for it, but I did get three extra clamps, in case it breaks again. They only charged me for one. Pro Yosh!!
The Yosh pipe broke the subframe on my sons 2011 YZ450F 3 seperate times. We kept trying to make it work as he was sponsored by them. They tried to help us but obviously wasnt the right fit. Same instance here, if it doesnt work switch. He is now with FMF again (our team sponsor) and they have been AWESOME.
MXD
Posts
2711
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
4/26/2012 5:38pm
This thread has epic potential
MX628
Posts
21
Joined
5/29/2011
Location
Encinitas, CA, USA
4/26/2012 7:04pm
DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
4/27/2012 7:08am
A few comments..........
- Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc. greatly effect sound.
- The airbox needs to be modified in order to make sound. You can pull out 2 db's.
- Go to sound check and listen to the bigger teams bikes. They all have specific maps for sound test.
- The privateers get production mufflers from PC, FMF etc. The supported teams get much different mufflers because those teams have access to advanced electronics. Just take a look down a PC race bike muffler. it ain't what you buy at the dealer.
- As for your 2010 sub-frame we add a new mount so you can use the the 11-12 hanger position.
rocrac
Posts
2454
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Indianapolis, IN, USA
4/27/2012 7:21am
DL wrote:
A few comments.......... - Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc...
A few comments..........
- Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc. greatly effect sound.
- The airbox needs to be modified in order to make sound. You can pull out 2 db's.
- Go to sound check and listen to the bigger teams bikes. They all have specific maps for sound test.
- The privateers get production mufflers from PC, FMF etc. The supported teams get much different mufflers because those teams have access to advanced electronics. Just take a look down a PC race bike muffler. it ain't what you buy at the dealer.
- As for your 2010 sub-frame we add a new mount so you can use the the 11-12 hanger position.
So if I'm reading this correctly, after sound check the bigger supported teams re-map their bikes?
DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
4/27/2012 7:29am
DL wrote:
A few comments.......... - Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc...
A few comments..........
- Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc. greatly effect sound.
- The airbox needs to be modified in order to make sound. You can pull out 2 db's.
- Go to sound check and listen to the bigger teams bikes. They all have specific maps for sound test.
- The privateers get production mufflers from PC, FMF etc. The supported teams get much different mufflers because those teams have access to advanced electronics. Just take a look down a PC race bike muffler. it ain't what you buy at the dealer.
- As for your 2010 sub-frame we add a new mount so you can use the the 11-12 hanger position.
rocrac wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly, after sound check the bigger supported teams re-map their bikes?
After sound check? No. AMA pulls bikes from practice and races for spot checks. The AMA is fully aware of what's going on and it's my guess that they will have new rules come 2013.
jeffro503
Posts
27645
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
4/27/2012 7:59am
DL wrote:
A few comments.......... - Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc...
A few comments..........
- Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc. greatly effect sound.
- The airbox needs to be modified in order to make sound. You can pull out 2 db's.
- Go to sound check and listen to the bigger teams bikes. They all have specific maps for sound test.
- The privateers get production mufflers from PC, FMF etc. The supported teams get much different mufflers because those teams have access to advanced electronics. Just take a look down a PC race bike muffler. it ain't what you buy at the dealer.
- As for your 2010 sub-frame we add a new mount so you can use the the 11-12 hanger position.
rocrac wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly, after sound check the bigger supported teams re-map their bikes?
DL wrote:
After sound check? No. AMA pulls bikes from practice and races for spot checks. The AMA is fully aware of what's going on and it's my...
After sound check? No. AMA pulls bikes from practice and races for spot checks. The AMA is fully aware of what's going on and it's my guess that they will have new rules come 2013.
Mr Lieb......they don't have those strict sound checks across the pond do they? This kind of sucks for the guys who race here.....not only are they getting heavier......but now they are making them complete turds by restricting the hell out of the motor. You need to have a bunch of money into your bike to make it quite...AND.....fast.
DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
4/27/2012 8:06am
rocrac wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly, after sound check the bigger supported teams re-map their bikes?
DL wrote:
After sound check? No. AMA pulls bikes from practice and races for spot checks. The AMA is fully aware of what's going on and it's my...
After sound check? No. AMA pulls bikes from practice and races for spot checks. The AMA is fully aware of what's going on and it's my guess that they will have new rules come 2013.
jeffro503 wrote:
Mr Lieb......they don't have those strict sound checks across the pond do they? This kind of sucks for the guys who race here.....not only are they...
Mr Lieb......they don't have those strict sound checks across the pond do they? This kind of sucks for the guys who race here.....not only are they getting heavier......but now they are making them complete turds by restricting the hell out of the motor. You need to have a bunch of money into your bike to make it quite...AND.....fast.
Very interesting you mention across the pond. From what I can tell the Euro mindset is very different. In MXGP the bikes legitimately pass sound and there is very little funny business going on. In the US it's more of a game to find the gray area of the rules and push it. I'm not sure why but this is the case IMHO. No doubt it's not a level playing field here!
jeffro503
Posts
27645
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR, USA
4/27/2012 8:27am
DL wrote:
After sound check? No. AMA pulls bikes from practice and races for spot checks. The AMA is fully aware of what's going on and it's my...
After sound check? No. AMA pulls bikes from practice and races for spot checks. The AMA is fully aware of what's going on and it's my guess that they will have new rules come 2013.
jeffro503 wrote:
Mr Lieb......they don't have those strict sound checks across the pond do they? This kind of sucks for the guys who race here.....not only are they...
Mr Lieb......they don't have those strict sound checks across the pond do they? This kind of sucks for the guys who race here.....not only are they getting heavier......but now they are making them complete turds by restricting the hell out of the motor. You need to have a bunch of money into your bike to make it quite...AND.....fast.
DL wrote:
Very interesting you mention across the pond. From what I can tell the Euro mindset is very different. In MXGP the bikes legitimately pass sound and...
Very interesting you mention across the pond. From what I can tell the Euro mindset is very different. In MXGP the bikes legitimately pass sound and there is very little funny business going on. In the US it's more of a game to find the gray area of the rules and push it. I'm not sure why but this is the case IMHO. No doubt it's not a level playing field here!
Point being......make your bike a quite turd.....or shell out a bunch of coin ( which most privateers don't have )......to make it quite and a competitive bike.

What is the difference in the sound testing for indoor SX and outdoor MX? Can they be slightly louder for the outdoors?
DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
4/27/2012 8:35am
jeffro503 wrote:
Mr Lieb......they don't have those strict sound checks across the pond do they? This kind of sucks for the guys who race here.....not only are they...
Mr Lieb......they don't have those strict sound checks across the pond do they? This kind of sucks for the guys who race here.....not only are they getting heavier......but now they are making them complete turds by restricting the hell out of the motor. You need to have a bunch of money into your bike to make it quite...AND.....fast.
DL wrote:
Very interesting you mention across the pond. From what I can tell the Euro mindset is very different. In MXGP the bikes legitimately pass sound and...
Very interesting you mention across the pond. From what I can tell the Euro mindset is very different. In MXGP the bikes legitimately pass sound and there is very little funny business going on. In the US it's more of a game to find the gray area of the rules and push it. I'm not sure why but this is the case IMHO. No doubt it's not a level playing field here!
jeffro503 wrote:
Point being......make your bike a quite turd.....or shell out a bunch of coin ( which most privateers don't have )......to make it quite and a competitive...
Point being......make your bike a quite turd.....or shell out a bunch of coin ( which most privateers don't have )......to make it quite and a competitive bike.

What is the difference in the sound testing for indoor SX and outdoor MX? Can they be slightly louder for the outdoors?
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the AMA is more lenient. AMA SX and MX use the same test.
slipdog
Posts
10054
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA, USA
4/27/2012 9:03am
DL wrote:
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the...
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the AMA is more lenient. AMA SX and MX use the same test.
What would be your thoughts on a spec muffler? Core length, diameter etc... all companies must make to a certin spec to be AMA Pro legal...
jmb227
Posts
148
Joined
4/27/2012
Location
Yukon, OK, USA
4/27/2012 9:05am
MXD wrote:
This thread has epic potential
Especially if someone goes and looks up his lap times from those 2 races........... I have
DL
Posts
2627
Joined
8/20/2006
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
4/27/2012 9:10am
DL wrote:
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the...
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the AMA is more lenient. AMA SX and MX use the same test.
slipdog wrote:
What would be your thoughts on a spec muffler? Core length, diameter etc... all companies must make to a certin spec to be AMA Pro legal...
It's a difficult question due to the various muffler shapes/volumes as well as core designs that are being produced. That being said if you look at Europe, who in my opinion are playing by the rules, most of the mufflers are 17" and use straight core designs with smaller outlet nozzles. I am not a fan of a spec that says you must use a certain length muffler with a specific core and outlet nozzle. It's racing and testing and development is all part of it. The AMA just needs to get the rules and testing procedures figured out.
FGR01
Posts
6139
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
USA
Fantasy
4/27/2012 9:49am
rocrac wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly, after sound check the bigger supported teams re-map their bikes?
Ever see the switch on the handlebar?? They had you believing it's for the start and the rest of the track, didn't they?
slipdog
Posts
10054
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA, USA
4/27/2012 9:51am
DL wrote:
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the...
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the AMA is more lenient. AMA SX and MX use the same test.
slipdog wrote:
What would be your thoughts on a spec muffler? Core length, diameter etc... all companies must make to a certin spec to be AMA Pro legal...
DL wrote:
It's a difficult question due to the various muffler shapes/volumes as well as core designs that are being produced. That being said if you look at...
It's a difficult question due to the various muffler shapes/volumes as well as core designs that are being produced. That being said if you look at Europe, who in my opinion are playing by the rules, most of the mufflers are 17" and use straight core designs with smaller outlet nozzles. I am not a fan of a spec that says you must use a certain length muffler with a specific core and outlet nozzle. It's racing and testing and development is all part of it. The AMA just needs to get the rules and testing procedures figured out.
Was just a thought to help level the field.

I holeshot one moto at Millville back in the 90's on a KX 125 with an FMF exhaust and a cylinder ported by John Lamson. I can't see that even being realistic today on a 250f with $500 worth of mods...LOL!
MotoGUY
Posts
168
Joined
8/25/2010
Location
Huntersville, NC, USA
4/27/2012 10:07am
I had the same problem with FMF. With the remap and a full spark arrestor I couldnt get my bike to pass sound. I tried to get them to help our race team out and they wouldnt. I started running the akrapovic pipe and pass sound without a sound map and it makes more power and torque then the FMF Without an insert. I would get ahold of Micheal Larkin at Arkapovic great guy to deal with and there systems are badass.
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
4/27/2012 10:58am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2012 10:58am
DL wrote:
A few comments.......... - Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc...
A few comments..........
- Nobody has a system that will pass with modified engine, especially if the rev limiter has been moved up. Cams, porting etc. greatly effect sound.
- The airbox needs to be modified in order to make sound. You can pull out 2 db's.
- Go to sound check and listen to the bigger teams bikes. They all have specific maps for sound test.
- The privateers get production mufflers from PC, FMF etc. The supported teams get much different mufflers because those teams have access to advanced electronics. Just take a look down a PC race bike muffler. it ain't what you buy at the dealer.
- As for your 2010 sub-frame we add a new mount so you can use the the 11-12 hanger position.
Maybe you guys can help out motoeast. It would be good PR, and it sounds like you have what he needs.
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
4/27/2012 11:00am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2012 11:01am
DL wrote:
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the...
The AMA adopted from the FIM what is called the 2 Meter Max Sound Test. It's the same as what they do in MXGP although the AMA is more lenient. AMA SX and MX use the same test.
slipdog wrote:
What would be your thoughts on a spec muffler? Core length, diameter etc... all companies must make to a certin spec to be AMA Pro legal...
There isn't any pipe manufacturer out there who wants to see a spec muffler. Mufflers are a lot more than a shell with packing, steel wool and a core....they're an essential tuning device.

What's the difference between sound testing for indoor SX and outdoor MX? They actually sound test for indoor SX while outdoor MX has used a "voluntary" sound compliance program for the last few years.
4/27/2012 11:00am
i dont get why there needs to be such a strict sound limit at a pro supercross? or a national for that matter. ever been to the drag races? i can understand the local tracks that run every weekend next to houses. but not the pro events.
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
4/27/2012 11:02am
i dont get why there needs to be such a strict sound limit at a pro supercross? or a national for that matter. ever been to...
i dont get why there needs to be such a strict sound limit at a pro supercross? or a national for that matter. ever been to the drag races? i can understand the local tracks that run every weekend next to houses. but not the pro events.
Yeah, really
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
4/27/2012 11:07am
FGR01 wrote:
Ever see the switch on the handlebar?? They had you believing it's for the start and the rest of the track, didn't they?
When they do random track side tests during SX practice/qualifying the riders are flagged then sound tested without letting the riders turn off their motors. This is supposed to prevent racers from changing maps.

The reality is the sound test folks in SX can now tell just by listening who is trying to skirt the rules when the bikes are out on the track. You may pass 2 M Max in the pits but you'll get flagged if you're playing any games after the bike is on the track.

To me what is funny is since this sport still remains more about the rider than it does the bike, pushing the sound envelope doesn't make that much sense to me.
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
4/27/2012 11:16am
i dont get why there needs to be such a strict sound limit at a pro supercross? or a national for that matter. ever been to...
i dont get why there needs to be such a strict sound limit at a pro supercross? or a national for that matter. ever been to the drag races? i can understand the local tracks that run every weekend next to houses. but not the pro events.
burn1986 wrote:
Yeah, really
Let's keep this simple. In the US SX has sound testing MX doesn't.

Feld is a sound testing advocate due to OSHA compliance.

MX Sports doesn't sound test...at least not in 2010 and 2011. The equipment is available at the Nationals for teams who want to test but there isn't a sound check at the Nationals. If you had an outdoor team what would you do under this current set up? Have your bikes pass sound for the sake of being a good guy or have your team bikes be louder since there isn't any sound testing?

BTW I spoke with Mitch Payton year before last at Southwick and he wasn't pleased there isn't any outdoor sound testing to speak of. Mitch said PC puts out considerable resources to make their bikes compliant but he knows there are teams out there who don't comply with sound limits during the Nationals........

Post a reply to: Thanks FMF For Helping a Privateer

The Latest