How about that brand new KTM

Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 2/12/2012 4:45pm
2/12/2012 4:45pm
RaceFace wrote:
The question will be outdoors where we know he is capable of winning races frequently. If he is noticeably off the pace there, then things will...
The question will be outdoors where we know he is capable of winning races frequently. If he is noticeably off the pace there, then things will get a little uncomfortable over at KTM. The really true test will be if he continues with the team after his contract is up or heads for greener pastures. So far I would say that it doesn't look to be working for him as well as the Suzuki did, but it is still too small of a sample. Outdoors will tell the tale.
I don't think they have anything to worry about outdoors. That's KTM's forte.
Ing
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Ing 2/12/2012 4:55pm
2/12/2012 4:55pm
Ing wrote:
Same bike he won on a couple weeks ago.
SlowMoFo wrote:
Good Lord! Different day Different starting gate Different track layout Different dirt Longer set of whoops 20 other guys at the gate And we can go...
Good Lord!

Different day
Different starting gate
Different track layout
Different dirt
Longer set of whoops
20 other guys at the gate

And we can go on and on!

Why isn't the same guy winning every week, they are all on the same bike week after week!
That's exactly my point.
newmann
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newmann 2/12/2012 4:59pm
2/12/2012 4:59pm
willmoto wrote:
Suzukis have always been good in the whoops. But honesty for a factory bike and racer . That KTM was just awful ,maybe worse.
Since when have Suzuki's been good in the whoops? Just a few years back there was this thing called the Suzuki Curse and it was the end of any riders career that tried to tame it. Now had you said that Suzuki's have always been good in corners.....Wink
fader418
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fader418 2/12/2012 5:31pm
2/12/2012 5:31pm
newmann wrote:
Since when have Suzuki's been good in the whoops? Just a few years back there was this thing called the Suzuki Curse and it was the...
Since when have Suzuki's been good in the whoops? Just a few years back there was this thing called the Suzuki Curse and it was the end of any riders career that tried to tame it. Now had you said that Suzuki's have always been good in corners.....Wink
Yeah maybe back in 1997 just ask MC

The Shop

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willmoto
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willmoto 2/12/2012 6:43pm
2/12/2012 6:43pm
sorry I meant the last 10 years. But my 83 rm was good in the whoops though.now the TM 400 is another matter
Bulldog Racing 2/12/2012 8:30pm
2/12/2012 8:30pm
You would think for $10,000 that thing would go through the woops by itself!!!!!
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gsxr6 2/12/2012 8:40pm
2/12/2012 8:40pm
dv12.com wrote:
Actually Rob Henricksen from RG3 is doing RD's stuff at KTM and has been doing Ryan's suspension since he turned pro at Suzuki...
mxb2 wrote:
Do you think RD s ktm suspension is better than his suzuki A kit from rg3?
mxav8r wrote:
DO I think you don't realize RD was not using "A Kit" suspension from RG3 on his Suzuki? RD had "Factory", "Works", or "Unattainable" what ever...
DO I think you don't realize RD was not using "A Kit" suspension from RG3 on his Suzuki? RD had "Factory", "Works", or "Unattainable" what ever you want to call it, on his Suzuki.

BTW, the answer is "Yes"
exactly. when dungey signed with ktm he said he was excited to reunite with rob from his 250f days
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Motodude 2/12/2012 8:44pm
2/12/2012 8:44pm
KTM looked ok, watching it in slow mo maybe rebound was a little slow for such a long whoops section. Even KDub managed to yard sale on the last lap ala Jimmy's getoff. RD5 will be ok this year.
newmann
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newmann 2/12/2012 9:32pm
2/12/2012 9:32pm
I remember Albertyn being a professional lawn dart on Suzuki's for years and years, especially in SX rhythm sections. Suzuki did wonders for Windham with their famous huckabucka suspension. Wasn't till some little redheaded dude came along that anybody was willing to take them serious......oh, wait....the US Open was the end of RC. The Suzuki curse struck. The clutch couldn't hang, it was junk, biggest mistake he ever made.....lol
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hothands 2/12/2012 11:10pm
2/12/2012 11:10pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2012 11:11pm
It was the first race this year with whoops like that and that pretty much means they haven't had to set up this bike for this rider for these whoops ever before.

People need to stop searching for any reason to call the KTM junk. I doubt even Japanese riders who only use Bridgestone tires, Yosh exhaust, Showa suspension and Arai helmets and listen to J-Pop on their Walkman while riding hate European bikes as much as some people on Vital do.
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IceMan446 2/12/2012 11:33pm
2/12/2012 11:33pm
newmann wrote:
Brand new team, brand new rider, brand new bike.....and a podium. How'd that third year Yamaturd look for the Fastest Man On The Planet? LMAO.
Newmann....Hate must be a strange feeling.

Funny because, I could have sworn, James is on a new team, riding a WAY different bike then he did last year and is having to learn as he goes.

Just like the Dunge.

And just a question, have you even rode the new Yamaha?
OriolMassot
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OriolMassot 2/13/2012 12:40am
2/13/2012 12:40am
newmann wrote:
Brand new team, brand new rider, brand new bike.....and a podium. How'd that third year Yamaturd look for the Fastest Man On The Planet? LMAO.
+1.000.000



WP suspension crew has a lot to learn with a rider of Dungeys caliber, JMO


Sometimes I ask myself wherefrom it comes both your hate to KTM and stupidity.
bultokid
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bultokid 2/13/2012 4:49am
2/13/2012 4:49am
All I know is RD blitzed pass him after the race to go give his podium speech.
FARANG
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FARANG 2/13/2012 5:39am
2/13/2012 5:39am
bartziokas123 wrote:
Looked a lot better in the woops than that JGR yamaha.
fader418 wrote:
Not sure what race you were watching, but the race I was watching that JGR passed that KTM twice in the whoops like he was standing...
Not sure what race you were watching, but the race I was watching that JGR passed that KTM twice in the whoops like he was standing still...
Then the JGR Yamaha WAS standing still. Next to the whoops. Off the side of the track, with FMOTP trapped underneath.
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karnivool 2/13/2012 5:58am
2/13/2012 5:58am
newmann wrote:
Brand new team, brand new rider, brand new bike.....and a podium. How'd that third year Yamaturd look for the Fastest Man On The Planet? LMAO.
ktm has been around a while, they know how to build a bike i think and whoops are nothing new are they?

the new bike excuse is getting old...

new team? how so?
new rider? uh, pretty sure he is a season professional

yamaturd was killing dungey, especially in the whoops, until...
RaceFace
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RaceFace 2/13/2012 6:13am
2/13/2012 6:13am
hothands wrote:
It was the first race this year with whoops like that and that pretty much means they haven't had to set up this bike for this...
It was the first race this year with whoops like that and that pretty much means they haven't had to set up this bike for this rider for these whoops ever before.

People need to stop searching for any reason to call the KTM junk. I doubt even Japanese riders who only use Bridgestone tires, Yosh exhaust, Showa suspension and Arai helmets and listen to J-Pop on their Walkman while riding hate European bikes as much as some people on Vital do.
I don't know if many think KTM's are junk. I think some are just being objective. I own a KTM, my next bike will probably be a KTM, but I do not have a problem with admitting if Dungey looked like shit in the whoops. Believe me, they have tested for whoops in the offseason. For some reason, KTM fans can't be objective as if admitting what their eyeballs tell them will have Roger stopping in at their house and taking away their KTM Sportscycle membership card. It is okay to be objective. Yes there are those going overboard in the other direction, who do appear to hate KTM for whatever reason, but they should try to be objective as well. I have said that I think Dungey will struggle all year with bike setup, but that has more to do with Dungey being dialed in with the Suzuki than KTM issues. Afterall, we're talking about running with a few of the top riders on the planet and the margin for error is very very small. It took Roger how many years to get titles with Suzuki?
newmann
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newmann 2/13/2012 6:17am
2/13/2012 6:17am
newmann wrote:
Brand new team, brand new rider, brand new bike.....and a podium. How'd that third year Yamaturd look for the Fastest Man On The Planet? LMAO.
IceMan446 wrote:
Newmann....Hate must be a strange feeling. Funny because, I could have sworn, James is on a new team, riding a WAY different bike then he did...
Newmann....Hate must be a strange feeling.

Funny because, I could have sworn, James is on a new team, riding a WAY different bike then he did last year and is having to learn as he goes.

Just like the Dunge.

And just a question, have you even rode the new Yamaha?
Hate?

Because the OEM's are churning out 250 pound motocross bikes in a sport that used to be defined by "light weight"?

Because Yamaha is pulling support from motocross and not providing the necessary R&D for their reverse engined marvel?

Because James has three years of testing and racing on the reverse engined bike with a couple teams and still can't come to grips with it?


Some of you guys crack me up.
Loose
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Loose 2/13/2012 7:02am
2/13/2012 7:02am
A couple of weeks ago it was 'Wow KTM on the podium!'
Then it was 'Wow KTM's first win!'
Now it's 'Wow that KTM is a pile!'

Man this is a tough crowd.......

I will say this though, it was faster through the whoops than Kdubs Honda, Metty's RM, Hansens KX and Davi's YZ. Not bad for a work in progress.

Carry on

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Loose
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Loose 2/13/2012 7:07am
2/13/2012 7:07am
Off topic but a serious question for newmann.

Over the last 10 years has the weight of major components like forks, frame, swingarm and rims increased? If so why?
ToolMaker 2/13/2012 7:43am
2/13/2012 7:43am
willmoto wrote:
Suzukis have always been good in the whoops. But honesty for a factory bike and racer . That KTM was just awful ,maybe worse.
It was so awful he finished behind how many Suzukis? They should just start over. With no history settings to fall back on they (at KTM) are extatic that their program is light years ahead of anything they have ever accomplished here. I'm sure they recognize they need work ther but awful?
TM
tbanks
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tbanks 2/13/2012 8:19am
2/13/2012 8:19am
KTM suspension has always been a problem. Compared to most bikes, KTM is arguably equal or better in all other areas sans suspension. I know for a fact that Ryan and KTM will get better with them, and it will take some time to gather the settings for that new bike. But IMO that is to be expected....

However just because he finished in front of Stewart in no way means he was better through the whoops than he was. That is like saying those who finished 12th, 13th, and 14th were better than James in those whoops as well and that is ludicrous. Had James stayed up Ryan would have finished 4th, and on Saturday night he was clearly the 4th fastest in the main event and the whoops.
Karl Landrus 2/13/2012 8:38am
2/13/2012 8:38am
Here is my two cents! It was clear on the whoop section the KTM has its difficulties to say the least and it is not a Dungey problem. Can anyone say "Steel Frame" KTM is a fine machine but they always try to outsmart everyone by half. They finally conceded and put a link suspension back on and the results have been awesome. Next step, Aluminum Frame, equals more rigidity, equals rider confidence, equals faster Whoops. Until they do that they had better do a better job of tying that motor to the frame with a few more mounting brackets to make that "steel flexy flyer" a little more rigid. To a guy like You or Me we would never notice the flex in the frame, but at that level of riding everything counts. If you want this example in the extreme you need not look any further than Top Fuel Dragsters that still use the 4130 frames as a suspension component.

The sad thing is the AMA production rule would not allow KTM to hand build an aluminum frame to test, then race, as in the old "Works Bikes"days, " Because it is not in production". This is a perfect example and the reason, I for one am not in favor of that rule. They claim it is a good rule for the privateer and I say I do not think one privateer has been made any better because of that rule. What it has hurt is a company like BBR who could so make an alloy prototype frame and give them some extra business research and developing. KL .
Bob454
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Bob454 2/13/2012 9:08am
2/13/2012 9:08am
Karl Landrus wrote:
Here is my two cents! It was clear on the whoop section the KTM has its difficulties to say the least and it is not a...
Here is my two cents! It was clear on the whoop section the KTM has its difficulties to say the least and it is not a Dungey problem. Can anyone say "Steel Frame" KTM is a fine machine but they always try to outsmart everyone by half. They finally conceded and put a link suspension back on and the results have been awesome. Next step, Aluminum Frame, equals more rigidity, equals rider confidence, equals faster Whoops. Until they do that they had better do a better job of tying that motor to the frame with a few more mounting brackets to make that "steel flexy flyer" a little more rigid. To a guy like You or Me we would never notice the flex in the frame, but at that level of riding everything counts. If you want this example in the extreme you need not look any further than Top Fuel Dragsters that still use the 4130 frames as a suspension component.

The sad thing is the AMA production rule would not allow KTM to hand build an aluminum frame to test, then race, as in the old "Works Bikes"days, " Because it is not in production". This is a perfect example and the reason, I for one am not in favor of that rule. They claim it is a good rule for the privateer and I say I do not think one privateer has been made any better because of that rule. What it has hurt is a company like BBR who could so make an alloy prototype frame and give them some extra business research and developing. KL .
I can see where your theories are coming from, but do you have any type of data to support your claims that an aluminum frame would cure the "problem"? It sounds to me you are basing all of your theory on a general assumptions of metal qualities without any actual knowledge of the flex of the frame....
newmann
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newmann 2/13/2012 9:22am
2/13/2012 9:22am
Karl Landrus wrote:
Here is my two cents! It was clear on the whoop section the KTM has its difficulties to say the least and it is not a...
Here is my two cents! It was clear on the whoop section the KTM has its difficulties to say the least and it is not a Dungey problem. Can anyone say "Steel Frame" KTM is a fine machine but they always try to outsmart everyone by half. They finally conceded and put a link suspension back on and the results have been awesome. Next step, Aluminum Frame, equals more rigidity, equals rider confidence, equals faster Whoops. Until they do that they had better do a better job of tying that motor to the frame with a few more mounting brackets to make that "steel flexy flyer" a little more rigid. To a guy like You or Me we would never notice the flex in the frame, but at that level of riding everything counts. If you want this example in the extreme you need not look any further than Top Fuel Dragsters that still use the 4130 frames as a suspension component.

The sad thing is the AMA production rule would not allow KTM to hand build an aluminum frame to test, then race, as in the old "Works Bikes"days, " Because it is not in production". This is a perfect example and the reason, I for one am not in favor of that rule. They claim it is a good rule for the privateer and I say I do not think one privateer has been made any better because of that rule. What it has hurt is a company like BBR who could so make an alloy prototype frame and give them some extra business research and developing. KL .
Bob454 wrote:
I can see where your theories are coming from, but do you have any type of data to support your claims that an aluminum frame would...
I can see where your theories are coming from, but do you have any type of data to support your claims that an aluminum frame would cure the "problem"? It sounds to me you are basing all of your theory on a general assumptions of metal qualities without any actual knowledge of the flex of the frame....
Karl knows a little bit about aluminum.

But having said that, please Karl, do not give KTM any ideas for an alloy frame. As much as I like giving you money for beefy flex free swingarms for my old vintage stuff I (as a spode level rider) love the feel of a steel frame. Hate the overly rigid feel of aluminum.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 2/13/2012 11:13am
2/13/2012 11:13am
Aquafresh wrote:
WOW!! Now the problem is the steel frame!? After they change the frame to aluminium (i hope not), i wonder what will some of you discover...
WOW!! Now the problem is the steel frame!?
After they change the frame to aluminium (i hope not), i wonder what will some of you discover to be KTM's problem.
I think the biggest problem for them is the name.
Let's not forget the color.
gjbruny
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gjbruny 2/13/2012 11:38am
2/13/2012 11:38am
tbanks wrote:
KTM suspension has always been a problem. Compared to most bikes, KTM is arguably equal or better in all other areas sans suspension. I know for...
KTM suspension has always been a problem. Compared to most bikes, KTM is arguably equal or better in all other areas sans suspension. I know for a fact that Ryan and KTM will get better with them, and it will take some time to gather the settings for that new bike. But IMO that is to be expected....

However just because he finished in front of Stewart in no way means he was better through the whoops than he was. That is like saying those who finished 12th, 13th, and 14th were better than James in those whoops as well and that is ludicrous. Had James stayed up Ryan would have finished 4th, and on Saturday night he was clearly the 4th fastest in the main event and the whoops.
that statement might have held water if JS had not crashed in the whoops...... RD kept the bike on 2 wheels for 20 sets of whoops, same could not be said for JS7 who, for all intents and purposes, spent one solid minute longer in the whoop section than any other rider of the night. going "ass over tea-kettle" in the whoops makes for a slower rider in that section...... even if only once out of 20.
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jasonward73 2/13/2012 1:25pm
2/13/2012 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/13/2012 1:32pm
Let's set aside what you all think about how he "looks" on the bike and take a different approach. Let's take a look at the results from 2011 and 2012. Keep in mind 2012 is supposed to be the "MOST STACKED" class ever.

I know, it's a very abstract way to measure success but I think most people would agree checking the scoreboard is always the best measure.

Through 6 rounds Dungey has gone...

2011 - 2, 5, 3, 3, 20, 2 Average finish = 5.8333 (with years and years of development)

2012 - 3, 1, 2, 4, 4, 3 Average Finish = 2.83333 (With NO SX wins ever)

Dungey is averaging a 3 position gain on the KTM vs the Suzuki.

Just for fun here are Andrew Shorts finishes

2011 - 10, 7, 14, 9, 6, 5 Average finish = 8.5 (on the POS underpowered KTM 350)

2012 - 7, 6, 14, 5, 14, 20 Average finish = 11 (on the holy grail of all Factory bikes)

Even if you take out Short's finish last week because he crashed the average finish through the first 5 rounds is the same from 2011 and 2012. Short is no better this year than last, he's actually worse. Shorty finished an average 2.5 positions better on the KTM vs the Honda. Hmmmmm......

Do the #s lie?

Jason
Cygnus
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Cygnus 2/13/2012 1:37pm
2/13/2012 1:37pm
Short was almost taken out of the sport forever by the pumpkin. If he were still on it I would bet he would be doing worse this year.
newmann
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newmann 2/13/2012 1:56pm
2/13/2012 1:56pm Edited Date/Time 2/13/2012 1:57pm
Cygnus wrote:
Short was almost taken out of the sport forever by the pumpkin. If he were still on it I would bet he would be doing worse...
Short was almost taken out of the sport forever by the pumpkin. If he were still on it I would bet he would be doing worse this year.
And Alessi almost taken out by the Suzuki.


Desert test facility spy cam work courtesy of Y0smithy.

Never mind the KTM sidepanel, never happened.....LOL
Bob454
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Bob454 2/13/2012 2:37pm
2/13/2012 2:37pm
Cygnus wrote:
Short was almost taken out of the sport forever by the pumpkin. If he were still on it I would bet he would be doing worse...
Short was almost taken out of the sport forever by the pumpkin. If he were still on it I would bet he would be doing worse this year.
Your theoretical really brings alot of facts to this topic BRO, Ill wager you 400 billion dollars

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