from MXA...Italy 4-stroke banned for kids in competition

Motodude
Posts
5168
Joined
2/2/2008
Location
Sydney AU
1/27/2012 10:19pm
= Italian austerity measures.

Honda sell millions of scooters in Vietnam alone...you think they'll bother with a few piddly MX bikes?
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
13502
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX US
1/27/2012 10:30pm
500guy wrote:
My point is the MFG's don't give a shit about this rule, they will make what they want. 2 strokes are not making a comeback just...
My point is the MFG's don't give a shit about this rule, they will make what they want. 2 strokes are not making a comeback just because Italians are not smart enough to work on 4 strokes.
mxrose3 wrote:
Funny... 4 stroke engines have been around for a long time. Most car or streetbike mechanics can work on a modern 4 stroke engine with there...
Funny... 4 stroke engines have been around for a long time. Most car or streetbike mechanics can work on a modern 4 stroke engine with there eyes closed.... But ask those same mechanics to work on a two stroke, and they don't even know where to begin. I've seen it - supposedly these shops have 'certified' mechanics, but when my buddy dropped his '04 CR250 to have a new crank put in at his local Honda dealer, they were lost. They kept the thing for 2 months, and finally returned it to him, and said they couldn't find the specs on it, nor did they know how to work on it. Tell me again who's smart?
waitn4 wrote:
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any...
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any certified motorcycle mechanic that can't order a crank and split a case. I am gonna have to call bs on that.
MXrose Your shop sucks. Totally. Like sucks bad...Like so bad one can't respond correctly...Just know they suck if they can't sort out a CR250.
Tiki
Posts
10571
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA US
Fantasy
1/27/2012 11:46pm
Sherwood wrote:
Fathers are to dumb to work on 4-strokes in Italy? "This is great news. We must keep down the cost at entry level to our sport...
Fathers are to dumb to work on 4-strokes in Italy?

"This is great news. We must keep down the cost at entry level to our sport and many fathers can work on a two-stroke but not on a four-stroke"
Funny, I read it the same. If they are too stupid to line up 2 dots, and they are worried about costs why not take up wheel barrel racing. This has to be the dumbest thing in motorsports.

At least come up with a legitimate reason. Be honest and say you like the sound and smell. Don't say they are too difficult.
hothands
Posts
269
Joined
10/26/2011
Location
Bloomington, IN US
1/27/2012 11:54pm
nickm wrote:
Good move by the Italians to protect their own moto industry...I'm sure you all remember that TM, Beta, Aprila and Husqvarna are all Italian made motorcycles...
Good move by the Italians to protect their own moto industry...I'm sure you all remember that TM, Beta, Aprila and Husqvarna are all Italian made motorcycles and they all still make 2 strokes. So they would be idiots NOT to do this.

Cheaper bikes + support their own country's industry? Wow, what a brilliant idea....good on them for pulling this move!
\
This would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that none of those companies currently produce an 85cc bike in any country. In fact Aprila and Beta don't make any 2 stroke dirt bikes (except for Beta's 50cc line). If Honda was worried about losing European sales on their 150r all they have to do is make a 85cc 2 stroke only for the European market out of the HM factory. Much like they do with their adult-sized 500, 300, and 125 4 stroke and 125, and 50 2 stroke models. Just look at all the different models they have for dirt bikes in Italy: http://www.hmmoto.it/ita/default.asp

The Shop

1/28/2012 12:03am
Same rules (no four-strokes under age15) in Italy, France, Spain and Sweden. I think its good for the sport.
chump6784
Posts
1770
Joined
5/9/2011
Location
AU
1/28/2012 1:18am
Sherwood wrote:
Fathers are to dumb to work on 4-strokes in Italy? "This is great news. We must keep down the cost at entry level to our sport...
Fathers are to dumb to work on 4-strokes in Italy?

"This is great news. We must keep down the cost at entry level to our sport and many fathers can work on a two-stroke but not on a four-stroke"
Tiki wrote:
Funny, I read it the same. If they are too stupid to line up 2 dots, and they are worried about costs why not take up...
Funny, I read it the same. If they are too stupid to line up 2 dots, and they are worried about costs why not take up wheel barrel racing. This has to be the dumbest thing in motorsports.

At least come up with a legitimate reason. Be honest and say you like the sound and smell. Don't say they are too difficult.
i have not done a top end rebuild on a 4 stroke but have read a manual on how to do it. its not as easy as a two stroke but its doable. the only thing is my dad and i could rebuild a 2 stroke at the track between moto's if something happened. i doubt there would be many moto dads that could do that with a 4 stroke
jock
Posts
1664
Joined
9/25/2006
Location
Postmans Ridge, QLD AU
Fantasy
1/28/2012 1:24am
JustMX wrote:
That might be just a little exreme. There should at least be an option for the 150F, like allowing it in the 125 cc class where...
That might be just a little exreme.

There should at least be an option for the 150F, like allowing it in the 125 cc class where it is comparable to the other machines and doesn't have a large displacement advantage.

I sincerely hope that any proposals at AMA congress to allow the 150F in the classes currently offered for 85cc machines fail like they did last year.
Why? Why show sympathy for a piece of machinery? especially when that piece of machinery is an overpriced, overweight piece of shit with an antiquated chassis...
Why? Why show sympathy for a piece of machinery? especially when that piece of machinery is an overpriced, overweight piece of shit with an antiquated chassis that was never anything more than a sales ploy.

.
True, 4 bangers are an over priced, over weight piece of shit that has ten times as many engine parts, and needs a double displacement rule to compete.
I am a Honda man thru and thru, but if my 450 blows, I will go the 500AF route. A real bike. Cool
1/28/2012 5:58am
This will most certainly mean a return of the RM125.

I spoke to the test rider who is going to be doing the endurance testing next year. Expect to see aluminum framed RM 2strokes either next year or the following.
reded
Posts
3682
Joined
3/26/2011
Location
KS US
1/28/2012 7:08am
This will most certainly mean a return of the RM125. I spoke to the test rider who is going to be doing the endurance testing next...
This will most certainly mean a return of the RM125.

I spoke to the test rider who is going to be doing the endurance testing next year. Expect to see aluminum framed RM 2strokes either next year or the following.
Dude, don't be F'n with me like that, is this true?
1/28/2012 7:19am Edited Date/Time 1/28/2012 7:20am
This will most certainly mean a return of the RM125. I spoke to the test rider who is going to be doing the endurance testing next...
This will most certainly mean a return of the RM125.

I spoke to the test rider who is going to be doing the endurance testing next year. Expect to see aluminum framed RM 2strokes either next year or the following.
reded wrote:
Dude, don't be F'n with me like that, is this true?
Not fucking with you. 100% true.

I know the "Suzuki 2stroke return" rumor has been around for a long time. But this is the first time I heard it from a legitimate source, not some sales rep at a dealership.

I can't remember if my friend said the 250 would be back also. And I cant remember if he said the bikes would be available in the US. But they most certainly will be made for Europe.

This move by Suzuki sure will help their dealerships and unit sales if brought to the USA. While Suzuki's sales worldwide are good, they could use a boost in the States.
TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
1/28/2012 7:45am
If an organizing body sets a rule, the manufactures will build a bike to suit it. If they want to sell bikes, they have no choice. the only reason the manufacturers are allowed to push the AMA around was because the AMA allows them to.
1/28/2012 7:51am
TerryK wrote:
If an organizing body sets a rule, the manufactures will build a bike to suit it. If they want to sell bikes, they have no choice...
If an organizing body sets a rule, the manufactures will build a bike to suit it. If they want to sell bikes, they have no choice. the only reason the manufacturers are allowed to push the AMA around was because the AMA allows them to.
not according to 500guy. "they'll build whatever they want."
TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
1/28/2012 8:00am
500guy wrote:
My point is the MFG's don't give a shit about this rule, they will make what they want. 2 strokes are not making a comeback just...
My point is the MFG's don't give a shit about this rule, they will make what they want. 2 strokes are not making a comeback just because Italians are not smart enough to work on 4 strokes.
mxrose3 wrote:
Funny... 4 stroke engines have been around for a long time. Most car or streetbike mechanics can work on a modern 4 stroke engine with there...
Funny... 4 stroke engines have been around for a long time. Most car or streetbike mechanics can work on a modern 4 stroke engine with there eyes closed.... But ask those same mechanics to work on a two stroke, and they don't even know where to begin. I've seen it - supposedly these shops have 'certified' mechanics, but when my buddy dropped his '04 CR250 to have a new crank put in at his local Honda dealer, they were lost. They kept the thing for 2 months, and finally returned it to him, and said they couldn't find the specs on it, nor did they know how to work on it. Tell me again who's smart?
waitn4 wrote:
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any...
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any certified motorcycle mechanic that can't order a crank and split a case. I am gonna have to call bs on that.
Calling bull as well. Its always a "it happened to a buddy". Well Im quite sure the certified Honda mechanics knew very well how to fix a simple two stroke but I'm guessing "buddy" didn't want to pay the labor rate so he blamed the dealer. I've worked at enough dealerships to know this is most likely the case.
1/28/2012 8:43am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2012 2:44pm
This will most certainly mean a return of the RM125. I spoke to the test rider who is going to be doing the endurance testing next...
This will most certainly mean a return of the RM125.

I spoke to the test rider who is going to be doing the endurance testing next year. Expect to see aluminum framed RM 2strokes either next year or the following.
reded wrote:
Dude, don't be F'n with me like that, is this true?
Not fucking with you. 100% true. I know the "Suzuki 2stroke return" rumor has been around for a long time. But this is the first time...
Not fucking with you. 100% true.

I know the "Suzuki 2stroke return" rumor has been around for a long time. But this is the first time I heard it from a legitimate source, not some sales rep at a dealership.

I can't remember if my friend said the 250 would be back also. And I cant remember if he said the bikes would be available in the US. But they most certainly will be made for Europe.

This move by Suzuki sure will help their dealerships and unit sales if brought to the USA. While Suzuki's sales worldwide are good, they could use a boost in the States.
.
mxrose3
Posts
2325
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Delmar, DE US
1/28/2012 9:12am
mxrose3 wrote:
Funny... 4 stroke engines have been around for a long time. Most car or streetbike mechanics can work on a modern 4 stroke engine with there...
Funny... 4 stroke engines have been around for a long time. Most car or streetbike mechanics can work on a modern 4 stroke engine with there eyes closed.... But ask those same mechanics to work on a two stroke, and they don't even know where to begin. I've seen it - supposedly these shops have 'certified' mechanics, but when my buddy dropped his '04 CR250 to have a new crank put in at his local Honda dealer, they were lost. They kept the thing for 2 months, and finally returned it to him, and said they couldn't find the specs on it, nor did they know how to work on it. Tell me again who's smart?
waitn4 wrote:
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any...
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any certified motorcycle mechanic that can't order a crank and split a case. I am gonna have to call bs on that.
TerryK wrote:
Calling bull as well. Its always a "it happened to a buddy". Well Im quite sure the certified Honda mechanics knew very well how to fix...
Calling bull as well. Its always a "it happened to a buddy". Well Im quite sure the certified Honda mechanics knew very well how to fix a simple two stroke but I'm guessing "buddy" didn't want to pay the labor rate so he blamed the dealer. I've worked at enough dealerships to know this is most likely the case.
believe what you want. I know the truth.
oh, and ask Mr. Engine Ice about some of the factory mechanics at LL's this year when they had to rebuild a few two strokes.
seth505
Posts
10170
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
SD, CA US
1/28/2012 9:41am
Rudeboy119 wrote:
love it, common sense, this is what it looks like. I almost forgot
!!! yes
1/28/2012 10:39am
waitn4 wrote:
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any...
Are you sure that is what really happened? Maybe your buddy did not want to pay for their repair costs. I don't think there is any certified motorcycle mechanic that can't order a crank and split a case. I am gonna have to call bs on that.
TerryK wrote:
Calling bull as well. Its always a "it happened to a buddy". Well Im quite sure the certified Honda mechanics knew very well how to fix...
Calling bull as well. Its always a "it happened to a buddy". Well Im quite sure the certified Honda mechanics knew very well how to fix a simple two stroke but I'm guessing "buddy" didn't want to pay the labor rate so he blamed the dealer. I've worked at enough dealerships to know this is most likely the case.
mxrose3 wrote:
believe what you want. I know the truth. oh, and ask Mr. Engine Ice about some of the factory mechanics at LL's this year when they...
believe what you want. I know the truth.
oh, and ask Mr. Engine Ice about some of the factory mechanics at LL's this year when they had to rebuild a few two strokes.
I don't know what else to say other than anyone who calls themselves a "mechanic" but can't rebuild a two stroke is a complete fucking idiot, and should not be collecting a paycheck from any manufacturer, especially one that still produces two stroke engines.


Also, I don't buy that a certified mechanic at a dealership can't rebuild one. Complete bullshit.
MBR
Posts
1217
Joined
9/1/2011
Location
FI
1/28/2012 11:21am Edited Date/Time 1/28/2012 11:36am
Same rules (no four-strokes under age15) in Italy, France, Spain and Sweden. I think its good for the sport.
Really in Sweden? Are you sure? I know KTM tried to get CRF150's banned there (as they did here in Finland) but as far as I know it didn't go through (not enough free/heavily discounted bikes for federation people?). There was a info letter that clarified that CRF150 are ok for next 4 years in Sweden, but I can't find it right now. Anyways you can see from here that 150 cc four strokes can race in Sweden:
http://www.svemo.se/Grenar/Motocross/Regler/KlasserNummerplatar/

As far as I know you can race CRF150 at least in UK, Ireland, Belgium, Spain, Finland (this one I'm sure), Portugal and Greece.

Also CRF:s aren't banned by FIM at Italy either, it's their federation. There's Honda Extreme Academy (a race series just for Honda CRF150) in Italy also, so you can race CRF 150 there.
MBR
Posts
1217
Joined
9/1/2011
Location
FI
1/28/2012 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2012 1:23pm
Did some ivestigation on this and....

4-strokes are NOT banned for kids in competiton in Italy!

See it yourself (for example page 281):
http://www.federmoto.it/home/commissione-sviluppo/norme-sportive-2012.a…

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art. 2 - CLASSI E PESO DEI MOTOCICLI
Classe Cilindrata Peso
65 2T fino a 65cc. Min. kg 53
85 2T da 65cc. a 85cc. Min. kg 63
4T da 100cc. a 150cc. Min. kg 71
125 2T da 100cc. a 125cc. Min. kg 88
MX2 2T da 100cc. a 144cc. Min. kg 88
4T da 175cc. a 250cc. Min. kg 95
MX1 2T da 175cc. a 250cc. Min. kg 98
4T da 290cc. a 450cc. Min. kg 102
MX3 2T da 290cc. a 500cc. Min. kg 102
4T da 475cc. a 650cc. Min. kg 102
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny thing that MXA claims this kind of shit (without any proof or link to the original news) and everyone just think this is the truth. Nice work MXA ; )
TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
1/28/2012 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2012 1:24pm
mxrose3 wrote:
believe what you want. I know the truth. oh, and ask Mr. Engine Ice about some of the factory mechanics at LL's this year when they...
believe what you want. I know the truth.
oh, and ask Mr. Engine Ice about some of the factory mechanics at LL's this year when they had to rebuild a few two strokes.
"factory" mechanics at LL???? lol, you mean a guy spinning wrenches for an amateur kid? Hardly a certified technician, in most cases anyway.

I still call bullshit on the dealer not being able to fix it. So you're telling me that a customer brings his two stroke grass trimmer/snowmobile/water pump/generator/lawn mower/watercraft/motorcycle for a top end job and said dealer is going to tell the customer to go somewhere else because his mechanics don't to know how repair two strokes?
OW38B
Posts
3619
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Coto de Caza, CA US
1/28/2012 1:24pm
Sherwood wrote:
Fathers are to dumb to work on 4-strokes in Italy? "This is great news. We must keep down the cost at entry level to our sport...
Fathers are to dumb to work on 4-strokes in Italy?

"This is great news. We must keep down the cost at entry level to our sport and many fathers can work on a two-stroke but not on a four-stroke"
Most comical post on here in this month.

TWO - as in, more than one and less than three.

TO - as in, going TO the store.

TOO - as in, Fathers are TOO dumb.

Laughing
newmann
Posts
24438
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
1/28/2012 1:31pm
I would 100% believe that a "certified" technician wouldn't know anything about a 2 stroke. These so called technicians coming out of technical schools are dumber than a box of rocks. BUT, they are "certified".

I had a kook that had a certificate for advanced steering and suspension systems sit a automobile strut on the ground and zap the nut off the top of it with a 1/2 inch air impact. Two years of school and $24,000.00 of his parents money down the drain. I've had them not know the difference between 80 grit and 600 grit sandpaper. BUT, they were "certified".

Certified does not in any way shape or form relate to capable.
AUS_Twisted
Posts
1146
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Melbourne AU
1/28/2012 2:22pm
newmann wrote:
I would 100% believe that a "certified" technician wouldn't know anything about a 2 stroke. These so called technicians coming out of technical schools are dumber...
I would 100% believe that a "certified" technician wouldn't know anything about a 2 stroke. These so called technicians coming out of technical schools are dumber than a box of rocks. BUT, they are "certified".

I had a kook that had a certificate for advanced steering and suspension systems sit a automobile strut on the ground and zap the nut off the top of it with a 1/2 inch air impact. Two years of school and $24,000.00 of his parents money down the drain. I've had them not know the difference between 80 grit and 600 grit sandpaper. BUT, they were "certified".

Certified does not in any way shape or form relate to capable.
lol reminds me of some of the dumb asses I used to get working in a Hobby shop over one summer when I was handling all the R/C car stuff
Dozer
Posts
85
Joined
5/24/2010
Location
US
1/29/2012 7:13am
It is ironic that people say 4 strokes cost too much to race for kids.

Meanwhile, 50cc 2 STROKE kid's race bikes cost $4K and are extremely expensive to maintain.
Remember, 50s are the entry level and you must have a 2 stroke to be competitive.

Post a reply to: from MXA...Italy 4-stroke banned for kids in competition

The Latest