Pro riders not wearing neck protection

Roscoe33
Profile picture for user Roscoe33
Posts
942
Joined
12/10/2009
Location
London, CA
Roscoe33 1/24/2012 7:49pm
1/24/2012 7:49pm
Moto619 wrote:
Hey guys i'm new to the forum and have a question. Why is it now that alot of pro riders that used to wear neck protection...
Hey guys i'm new to the forum and have a question. Why is it now that alot of pro riders that used to wear neck protection are not wearing them anymore? There is a ever growing list such as Weimer,MC,Josh Grant,Cheyne Boyd (aussie),Ping,Townley and Rattray to name a few. This is not a rant about pro's should be setting a example or anything like that it is just a question. Does it come down to money or have they information that they don't help you at all in the event of a crash?
Thanks
Ktm_martyn_125 wrote:
i have been told that Reed stop wearing his Astar one after Andrew 'Sharkey' Farlane died with head injuries, many believe that neck braces cause head...
i have been told that Reed stop wearing his Astar one after Andrew 'Sharkey' Farlane died with head injuries, many believe that neck braces cause head injuries and this is what killed Sharkey. Whether this is true or not hasn't been proved, but it was enough to scare Reed into not wearing one
The question is whether the brace catches the EDGE of the helmet and pulls it off, rather than the brace absorbing the force of the crash on the SIDE of the helmet and the helmet staying secure.
dak446
Profile picture for user dak446
Posts
1052
Joined
3/28/2011
Location
Louisville, KY, USA
dak446 1/24/2012 7:52pm
1/24/2012 7:52pm
Ktm_martyn_125 wrote:
i have been told that Reed stop wearing his Astar one after Andrew 'Sharkey' Farlane died with head injuries, many believe that neck braces cause head...
i have been told that Reed stop wearing his Astar one after Andrew 'Sharkey' Farlane died with head injuries, many believe that neck braces cause head injuries and this is what killed Sharkey. Whether this is true or not hasn't been proved, but it was enough to scare Reed into not wearing one
His name was Andrew MCFARLANE. Good try though.
burnside
Profile picture for user burnside
Posts
4095
Joined
6/17/2009
Location
London, USA
burnside 1/24/2012 8:57pm
1/24/2012 8:57pm Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 8:59pm
How do you think Morais would have faired a neck brace? With that kind of full frontal body slam, surely a Leatt would have pulverised his neck/wind pipe?

Like someone else mentioned, you got to question a company that markets fear to sell their products. Almost distasteful in some cases.
yamaha581
Profile picture for user yamaha581
Posts
293
Joined
12/8/2008
Location
Butler, PA, USA
yamaha581 1/24/2012 9:11pm
1/24/2012 9:11pm
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have it on and to be honest I feel weird riding without it.

The Shop

See All »
sbarrington314 1/24/2012 10:19pm
1/24/2012 10:19pm
yamaha581 wrote:
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have...
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have it on and to be honest I feel weird riding without it.
you dont notice its there, but feel weird without it? lol.
jemcee
Profile picture for user jemcee
Posts
12802
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
jemcee 1/24/2012 10:39pm
1/24/2012 10:39pm
burnside wrote:
How do you think Morais would have faired a neck brace? With that kind of full frontal body slam, surely a Leatt would have pulverised his...
How do you think Morais would have faired a neck brace? With that kind of full frontal body slam, surely a Leatt would have pulverised his neck/wind pipe?

Like someone else mentioned, you got to question a company that markets fear to sell their products. Almost distasteful in some cases.
I'm not sure about a Leatt doing damage to a neck but
he has fractures to his C1-2 C6 and C7 and extremely, extremely lucky no cord damage

would he have had all those if he was wearing one?
I don't KNOW but I know what I think

how do you think canard would have faired without his on? Again I don't know but i know what I think
PressPassP
Profile picture for user PressPassP
Posts
3329
Joined
3/3/2010
Location
Ipswich, GB
PressPassP 1/25/2012 4:49am
1/25/2012 4:49am
jemcee wrote:
If i was still riding I would [b]DEFINATELY[/b] wear one but i'm not riding anymore because i broke my neck and I have no doubt a...
If i was still riding I would DEFINATELY wear one

but i'm not riding anymore because i broke my neck and I have no doubt a brace would have saved me but I've said this so many times and some people want more data and testing before they wear them so ... people will believe what they want

but i've had both a broken collarbone and a smashed c7 in my neck resulting in an almost complete severance of the spinal chord which means i can't feel or move anything below my nipples

no prizes for guessing which injury i'd rather
Me too,I'm C6/7 and 10 years in and I'm pretty positive that a brace would have helped me,if it resulted in a huge amount of other different injuries I'm sure I'd have taken it,even if it was an inch further down at least 1 fucking hand would work properly and breathe 100%

Believe me,spend a day or so as someone in a chair and you'd be doing everything thought feasible to protect yourself against potential injury,including chest/back protectors,the one Scottie posted of Kenny's is excellent,I don't know the regs but they should make stuff like that compulsory,the heart,lungs,kidneys,liver etc and all other vital organs are a handlebar end away from being impaled and the thickness of a Thor jersey ain't gonna save you,seems crazy to me,but if its a fucking fashion show you're after,I guess you're lookin great.
TerryK
Profile picture for user TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
TerryK 1/25/2012 4:55am
1/25/2012 4:55am
Ktm_martyn_125 wrote:
i have been told that Reed stop wearing his Astar one after Andrew 'Sharkey' Farlane died with head injuries, many believe that neck braces cause head...
i have been told that Reed stop wearing his Astar one after Andrew 'Sharkey' Farlane died with head injuries, many believe that neck braces cause head injuries and this is what killed Sharkey. Whether this is true or not hasn't been proved, but it was enough to scare Reed into not wearing one
Digging up a two year old thread instead of starting a new one? First post fail.
burnside
Profile picture for user burnside
Posts
4095
Joined
6/17/2009
Location
London, USA
burnside 1/25/2012 5:15am
1/25/2012 5:15am Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 5:18am
jemcee wrote:
I'm not sure about a Leatt doing damage to a neck but he has fractures to his C1-2 C6 and C7 and extremely, extremely lucky no...
I'm not sure about a Leatt doing damage to a neck but
he has fractures to his C1-2 C6 and C7 and extremely, extremely lucky no cord damage

would he have had all those if he was wearing one?
I don't KNOW but I know what I think

how do you think canard would have faired without his on? Again I don't know but i know what I think
Like you, I don't know either way. Just seemed like with Ryan's impact if there was an object that protruded, what 3-4 inches from his neck, it would have been forced backwards into his wind pipe with the impact. As for Trey, aren't the braces designed to stop your neck flexing? Hard to tell if his injury was from this, or simply from the impact and weight of Ryan and his 450f. Eitherways, at least they can both still walk eh. And neither has a serious brain injury.
steveada
Profile picture for user steveada
Posts
396
Joined
5/6/2011
Location
Evans, GA, USA
steveada 1/25/2012 5:49am
1/25/2012 5:49am
For those that don't wear a brace because it transfers forces lower in the spine, think about this. First of all, the thoracic spine is composed of larger vertebrae that also get a lot of support from the surrounding muscles and rib cage. The cervical spine is made up of smaller vertebae, has no axial support from other parts of the body, and has much more freedom to flex and extend. This means that it takes considerably more force to fracture the thoracic spine than it takes to fracture the cervical spine. In addition, due to the lack of support, a cervical fracture is much more likely to displace, causing an injury to the spinal cord. For these reasons, it makes a lot of sense to transmit forces from a weak area to a stronger area. If the forces in an accident are great enough to cause a neck brace to break the thoracic spine, those forces would surely cause a fracture of the weaker c-spine if the neck brace was not there. In addition, in the worst case scenario where a severe accident wearing a neck brace did cause a thoracic spine fracture with associated spinal cord injury, having the cord injury lower in the spine could make the difference between paralysis involving the entire torso, arms and legs, and paralysis involving only the legs. Just as seat belts can break your pelvis and airbags can break your arms, the alternative without them would almost positively be much worse.
MiSledder
Profile picture for user MiSledder
Posts
252
Joined
3/7/2011
Location
USA
MiSledder 1/25/2012 5:54am
1/25/2012 5:54am
This is just like the seat belt topic in the 90's before it became law, I heard a few people talk about the one incident wear a seat belt hurt someone or trapped someone as a defense to not use them, I think a neck brace has a better chance of helping you then hurting you just like the seatbelt, I don't wear a brace but I'm a slow trail rider, My son wears one cause he races MX
MiSledder
Profile picture for user MiSledder
Posts
252
Joined
3/7/2011
Location
USA
MiSledder 1/25/2012 5:56am
1/25/2012 5:56am
yamaha581 wrote:
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have...
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have it on and to be honest I feel weird riding without it.
sbarrington314 wrote:
you dont notice its there, but feel weird without it? lol.
Yep! My son will tell you the same thing, He has wore one since day one, To him it feels right, I think as the younger neck brace generation comes of age they will be as common as helmets
mj731
Profile picture for user mj731
Posts
164
Joined
12/24/2011
Location
Mount Horeb, WI, USA
mj731 1/25/2012 6:00am
1/25/2012 6:00am
I heard that Reed quit wearing one because of Andrews death also. I think that the fact that Trey did not break any C vertabrae and Ryan did makes a case for wearing one. I know every accident is different and you can't stop every neck injury but that's like me saying I'm not going to wear a helmet anymore because I still had a concussion with one on so they must not help. I'd also like to hear what Ryan Hughes thinks about the "bear trap" after seeing the crash and Trey not having a neck injury.
burnside
Profile picture for user burnside
Posts
4095
Joined
6/17/2009
Location
London, USA
burnside 1/25/2012 6:20am
1/25/2012 6:20am
mj731 wrote:
I heard that Reed quit wearing one because of Andrews death also. I think that the fact that Trey did not break any C vertabrae and...
I heard that Reed quit wearing one because of Andrews death also. I think that the fact that Trey did not break any C vertabrae and Ryan did makes a case for wearing one. I know every accident is different and you can't stop every neck injury but that's like me saying I'm not going to wear a helmet anymore because I still had a concussion with one on so they must not help. I'd also like to hear what Ryan Hughes thinks about the "bear trap" after seeing the crash and Trey not having a neck injury.
I expect he doesn't have a neck injury because Ryan's back wheel landed on his lower back.
crashnburn11 1/25/2012 6:42am
1/25/2012 6:42am
burnside wrote:
I expect he doesn't have a neck injury because Ryan's back wheel landed on his lower back.
I'm not looking to argue, but Ryan's Engine Cases were on trey's head pushing it down. This type of force I think is what the brace protects against, whereas I THINK in Ryan's frontal impact the brace would not have helped at all, and may have been harmful.
chrisbuehler
Profile picture for user chrisbuehler
Posts
3346
Joined
2/9/2009
Location
North Stonington, CT, USA
chrisbuehler 1/25/2012 6:54am
1/25/2012 6:54am
Is RV wearing one still? I have noticed in quite a few of the ads he's pictured in he's not wearing it.
CamP
Profile picture for user CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX, USA
CamP 1/25/2012 7:28am
1/25/2012 7:28am
burnside wrote:
I expect he doesn't have a neck injury because Ryan's back wheel landed on his lower back.
I guess you haven't seen this pic. Check out Morais' shock linkage smashing the back of Trey's neck and the frame rails driving his head into his lap. This is definitely one case of the brace saving someone from more serious injury.

Pit Row

See All »
flyinb501
Profile picture for user flyinb501
Posts
674
Joined
7/25/2011
Location
Lakewood Ranch, FL, USA
flyinb501 1/25/2012 7:36am
1/25/2012 7:36am
steveada wrote:
For those that don't wear a brace because it transfers forces lower in the spine, think about this. First of all, the thoracic spine is composed...
For those that don't wear a brace because it transfers forces lower in the spine, think about this. First of all, the thoracic spine is composed of larger vertebrae that also get a lot of support from the surrounding muscles and rib cage. The cervical spine is made up of smaller vertebae, has no axial support from other parts of the body, and has much more freedom to flex and extend. This means that it takes considerably more force to fracture the thoracic spine than it takes to fracture the cervical spine. In addition, due to the lack of support, a cervical fracture is much more likely to displace, causing an injury to the spinal cord. For these reasons, it makes a lot of sense to transmit forces from a weak area to a stronger area. If the forces in an accident are great enough to cause a neck brace to break the thoracic spine, those forces would surely cause a fracture of the weaker c-spine if the neck brace was not there. In addition, in the worst case scenario where a severe accident wearing a neck brace did cause a thoracic spine fracture with associated spinal cord injury, having the cord injury lower in the spine could make the difference between paralysis involving the entire torso, arms and legs, and paralysis involving only the legs. Just as seat belts can break your pelvis and airbags can break your arms, the alternative without them would almost positively be much worse.
That's good info.

I broke my C6, and had a C5/C6 subluxation (C5 jumped over C6) due to extreme whip lash from casing a triple almost 12 years ago now. I'm confident a neck brace would've restricted my head from snapping forward so far, which would've prevented my injury. Thankfully I made a full recovery.

After taking 10 years off I'm now riding again, and plan on racing again in the spring. I was going to buy myself a neck brace this winter, but my GF bought me a Leatt Carbon Pro for Christmas before I had a chance. I'm glad we now have this technology Smile
flyinb501
Profile picture for user flyinb501
Posts
674
Joined
7/25/2011
Location
Lakewood Ranch, FL, USA
flyinb501 1/25/2012 7:42am
1/25/2012 7:42am
Just out of curiosity... Does anyone have any stories of riders with neck injuries that were wearing a neck brace? You don't really ever seem to hear about them. Coincidence?
yamaha581
Profile picture for user yamaha581
Posts
293
Joined
12/8/2008
Location
Butler, PA, USA
yamaha581 1/25/2012 8:05am
1/25/2012 8:05am
yamaha581 wrote:
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have...
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have it on and to be honest I feel weird riding without it.
sbarrington314 wrote:
you dont notice its there, but feel weird without it? lol.
Yea I feel weird without it because some people say they dont like the neck braces because they cant move around as much. For me I feel better with the neck brace on and im used to how much I can move, but when I dont have a neck brace it feels weird to me because of all the movement.
sbarrington314 1/25/2012 11:57am
1/25/2012 11:57am
yamaha581 wrote:
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have...
Ive had a Leatt Brace for the past 2 or 3 years and I dont ride without it. I dont even notice it when I have it on and to be honest I feel weird riding without it.
sbarrington314 wrote:
you dont notice its there, but feel weird without it? lol.
yamaha581 wrote:
Yea I feel weird without it because some people say they dont like the neck braces because they cant move around as much. For me I...
Yea I feel weird without it because some people say they dont like the neck braces because they cant move around as much. For me I feel better with the neck brace on and im used to how much I can move, but when I dont have a neck brace it feels weird to me because of all the movement.
it just sounds contradicting. you claim you dont know its there but yet know when its not there. so really you do know its there when wearing it.
Laith488
Profile picture for user Laith488
Posts
10
Joined
11/10/2011
Location
Fayetteville, AR, USA
Laith488 1/25/2012 1:26pm
1/25/2012 1:26pm
I am paraphrasing here, but when asked "what his thoughts were on specific pro riders being so vocal about neck braces not working" I was hoping Cornell DeJongh would have said something to the affect of "I would trust the research that engineers and medical staff have put together and not some homeschooled pro racers opinion."

That isn't a nock on homeschooled individuals, but I just don't understand how someone win zero engineering skills or medical knowledge is going to tell someone they are wrong. If you saw me ride a motorcycle then the next week heard me telling JS7 how to scrub a motorcycle everyone would be laughing at me. This isn't much different.
uk125250
Profile picture for user uk125250
Posts
3947
Joined
10/4/2009
Location
Gnome, AQ
uk125250 1/25/2012 2:17pm
1/25/2012 2:17pm
DanDunes818 wrote:
When I started racing again in 08 everyone out at the track had one on. It actually scared the piss out of me that I couldn't...
When I started racing again in 08 everyone out at the track had one on. It actually scared the piss out of me that I couldn't afford one at the time. Because everyone else at the track had one it made me feel like I wasn't wearing a helmet when I didn't have one. Before they had neck braces , i of course, never thought about it but since everyone had one I felt like I was tempting fate by not wearing one.

What I'm getting at is ,whether they work or not, the companies that make them bank on the guys like me that ,because everyone has one, feel scared not to have one on. I personally think ,from what I've read, they need more independent testing done before I'd be totally sold on it. As of now most people wear them out of fear rather then wearing them because they know they'll help. When a companies #1 marketing campaign is fear rather than actual tests and real world results it makes me wonder. I think that it's the same w/parents out at the track. Most parents I talk to these days don't know if they work but if their little Johnny breaks his neck while not wearing a brace they'll feel guilty as hell so they buy one for little Johnny. If that neck brace breaks little Johny's collar bone the parents have been programed to think better the collar bone then the neck when in reality we really don't know if the neck brace does more harm then good.
Spot on.
JOHN CHOATE
Profile picture for user JOHN CHOATE
Posts
2024
Joined
9/18/2008
Location
Dallas, NC, USA
JOHN CHOATE 1/25/2012 3:14pm
1/25/2012 3:14pm
flyinb501 wrote:
Just out of curiosity... Does anyone have any stories of riders with neck injuries that were wearing a neck brace? You don't really ever seem to...
Just out of curiosity... Does anyone have any stories of riders with neck injuries that were wearing a neck brace? You don't really ever seem to hear about them. Coincidence?
I've seen numerous stories about riders and their paralyzing injuries while wearing neck braces. I remember one riders statement saying that he firmly believes that having the brace on was what caused his injury as he was not able to tuck his chin to his chest and roll with the crash. Instead, he was unable to tuck his chin and landed with all his weight on the top of his head and now lives in a chair.

This debate will go on for a long time I'm sure.
JOHN CHOATE
Profile picture for user JOHN CHOATE
Posts
2024
Joined
9/18/2008
Location
Dallas, NC, USA
JOHN CHOATE 1/25/2012 3:16pm
1/25/2012 3:16pm
DanDunes818 wrote:
When I started racing again in 08 everyone out at the track had one on. It actually scared the piss out of me that I couldn't...
When I started racing again in 08 everyone out at the track had one on. It actually scared the piss out of me that I couldn't afford one at the time. Because everyone else at the track had one it made me feel like I wasn't wearing a helmet when I didn't have one. Before they had neck braces , i of course, never thought about it but since everyone had one I felt like I was tempting fate by not wearing one.

What I'm getting at is ,whether they work or not, the companies that make them bank on the guys like me that ,because everyone has one, feel scared not to have one on. I personally think ,from what I've read, they need more independent testing done before I'd be totally sold on it. As of now most people wear them out of fear rather then wearing them because they know they'll help. When a companies #1 marketing campaign is fear rather than actual tests and real world results it makes me wonder. I think that it's the same w/parents out at the track. Most parents I talk to these days don't know if they work but if their little Johnny breaks his neck while not wearing a brace they'll feel guilty as hell so they buy one for little Johnny. If that neck brace breaks little Johny's collar bone the parents have been programed to think better the collar bone then the neck when in reality we really don't know if the neck brace does more harm then good.
uk125250 wrote:
Spot on.
Well worded, Dan.
burnside
Profile picture for user burnside
Posts
4095
Joined
6/17/2009
Location
London, USA
burnside 1/25/2012 3:29pm
1/25/2012 3:29pm
CamP wrote:
I guess you haven't seen this pic. Check out Morais' shock linkage smashing the back of Trey's neck and the frame rails driving his head into...
I guess you haven't seen this pic. Check out Morais' shock linkage smashing the back of Trey's neck and the frame rails driving his head into his lap. This is definitely one case of the brace saving someone from more serious injury.

My bad, should have rechecked the pic before posting that.
Ktm_martyn_125 1/26/2012 7:51am
1/26/2012 7:51am
dak446 wrote:
His name was Andrew MCFARLANE. Good try though.
i meant to write McFarlane but i was trying to remember what people had told me about them and i was writing too fast, hands going faster than my brain lol, thanks
Ktm_martyn_125 1/26/2012 7:54am
1/26/2012 7:54am
flyinb501 wrote:
Just out of curiosity... Does anyone have any stories of riders with neck injuries that were wearing a neck brace? You don't really ever seem to...
Just out of curiosity... Does anyone have any stories of riders with neck injuries that were wearing a neck brace? You don't really ever seem to hear about them. Coincidence?
The one about Andrew McFarlane i posted earlier, he died from head injuries that people believe were cause by a neck brace, whether this is true or not, i can not comment on
Ktm_martyn_125 1/26/2012 8:00am
1/26/2012 8:00am
It's such a hard decision to make (for me personally), i would pay the money if the they were proved to be life saving equipment but theres so many horror stories as there is life saving stories. Then after i make that deicision i have the decision of picking between Leatt or Alpinestar, can anyone help me with what one to get?

Post a reply to: Pro riders not wearing neck protection