I wonder which two stroke Reed liked the best...

Denn700
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 9:02am
The 03/04 steel framed YZ250 or the 05 aluminum frame YZ250? I remember him saying the front end pushed on the 05 or something like that. Has anyone owned both of these bikes? I had an 07 which is like the 05 but never have ridden the 03/04.
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EastFlorida
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11/28/2011 7:52pm
Denn700 wrote:
The 03/04 steel framed YZ250 or the 05 aluminum frame YZ250? I remember him saying the front end pushed on the 05 or something like that...
The 03/04 steel framed YZ250 or the 05 aluminum frame YZ250? I remember him saying the front end pushed on the 05 or something like that. Has anyone owned both of these bikes? I had an 07 which is like the 05 but never have ridden the 03/04.
I'm in the market, so I'd like to know too..
BAD10
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11/28/2011 7:58pm
I believe Reed has stated several times that the 2004 YZ250 was the most bad ass 2stroke race bike he had ever ridden. He didnt like the aluminum frame in 05 nearly as much
OW38B
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11/28/2011 7:59pm
DV12 was on Team Yamaha in that time frame, he might be able to shed some light on the subject. He is always cool when he comes on here. Cool
EastFlorida
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11/28/2011 8:02pm
BAD10 wrote:
I believe Reed has stated several times that the 2004 YZ250 was the most bad ass 2stroke race bike he had ever ridden. He didnt like...
I believe Reed has stated several times that the 2004 YZ250 was the most bad ass 2stroke race bike he had ever ridden. He didnt like the aluminum frame in 05 nearly as much
That would be my guess. All ealy AL frames seemed to have issues. I guess this is why KTM has gone to them yet.

Is it worth the cost for the '04 frame to give up the later engine and suspension improvements?

In a nut shell, which yz250 is the best to go with?

I've heard the 2004+ RMs are great too....

The Shop

Matthes
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11/28/2011 8:23pm
No contest, all the riders at Yamaha liked the steel frame bike better. We were chasing that aluminum framed bike all year to make it feel the same. The engineers at Yamaha swore it had the same flex points and as much as the 04 but the guys all said it was weird..

I did a Reed look-back on his career for an Aussie mag and here's what he said about that bike

2005- Coming into ‘05 I was determined to win the championship again. I felt like everything happened at the wrong time. I put so much effort into thinking about trying to win the title, and on top of that Yamaha had came out with new aluminum frame bike. Their claim was that it was identical to a steel frame and we had some issues. It was just a difficult year as all of our strengths were now our weaknesses. I came clean with the Yamaha guys and told them I rode a factory Suzuki and their engine smoked ours, so we needed to step it up. They were able to do that and the engine was great, but we were never able to get the chassis. Since nobody had worked with the aluminum before, we took all of our works stuff from the ’04 bike and just bolted it on the new frame expecting it to work and it didn’t
.
mojoman42
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11/28/2011 8:34pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2011 8:34pm
Matthes wrote:
No contest, all the riders at Yamaha liked the steel frame bike better. We were chasing that aluminum framed bike all year to make it feel...
No contest, all the riders at Yamaha liked the steel frame bike better. We were chasing that aluminum framed bike all year to make it feel the same. The engineers at Yamaha swore it had the same flex points and as much as the 04 but the guys all said it was weird..

I did a Reed look-back on his career for an Aussie mag and here's what he said about that bike

2005- Coming into ‘05 I was determined to win the championship again. I felt like everything happened at the wrong time. I put so much effort into thinking about trying to win the title, and on top of that Yamaha had came out with new aluminum frame bike. Their claim was that it was identical to a steel frame and we had some issues. It was just a difficult year as all of our strengths were now our weaknesses. I came clean with the Yamaha guys and told them I rode a factory Suzuki and their engine smoked ours, so we needed to step it up. They were able to do that and the engine was great, but we were never able to get the chassis. Since nobody had worked with the aluminum before, we took all of our works stuff from the ’04 bike and just bolted it on the new frame expecting it to work and it didn’t
.
Why would Yamaha bother with such a huge change to the 250 when they were on the verge of 450s taking over? Did they not realize the transition would happen so soon after?
TDeath21
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11/28/2011 8:41pm
He was definitely the guy who was hurt the most by switching to a 4 stroke. Had the 4 stroke revolution held off for 5 more years, the history books might be different.
Hando
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11/28/2011 9:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2011 9:01pm
Weird how he hated the 05 YZ250 while every magazine and every mortal who bought one claimed it was the best bike ever.

His 04 YZ250 and his 00' KX250 GP bike were the best he ever had apparently...IIRC he said Jan De Groot had his KX250 on point.

Matthes, what did Ferry have to say about this bike?

Looking forward to DV's input as well. Smile
Denn700
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11/28/2011 9:06pm
I would like to get an 03 or 04 and put the newer forks on it.
Deetsmx
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11/28/2011 9:29pm
I have an 06 and I've never gotten it to where I really like it. It just feels really rigid especially on acceleration bumps. I've played around with it for over a year and haven't been able to fine tune it. I rode an 01 last weekend and it felt much better under acceleration but the ergonomics were way off compared to mine. I say slap some new forks on an older one or get a zook.
newmann
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11/28/2011 9:35pm
Funny how McGrath refused to ride the 97 Honda, Reed couldn't come to grips with the alloy Yamaha's and other top pros have said the same things yet many of the rocket surgeons here on Vital proclaim the alloy frame the greatest thing since sliced bread. Truth is that chro-mo still reigns supreme, is lighter(because less bulk is required) and allows the bike to be much more service friendly (again due to less bulk). Had anyone suggested attaching a ten pound barbell weight to the top of a works bike cylinder head in the mid 90's everyone would have freaked. Or adding 157 additional moving parts to a fairly simple engine design.....yet here we are. Imagine a light weight motocross bike that was so difficult to start and even more difficult to restart mid moto that adding ten to fifteen pounds worth of battery, electronics and an electric starting motor was the only way to go? The only thing preventing mfgs. from pushing the 200lb. mark was the 216 lb. minimum weight rule for the 250 class. Even then there were several mfgs. who sold production 250's that would have to have weight added to be legal for AMA competition. But somehow we were sold on the idea that thirty or forty pounds heavier was better.....and lighter..... feeling anyway. We've been sold a line of shit over the last decade.
Gukamonster
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11/28/2011 9:40pm
I wonder if dominating in 2004 without Ricky Carmichael and James Stewart, and then losing to them once they showed up to race the next year had anything to do with his opinions on the two bikes.
scooter5002
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11/28/2011 9:58pm
93 CR250. My favourite bike of all time, and I've owned a lot of bikes. Had it 5 years now, pretty impressive given that it is 19 model years old now. No vibes, turns like a SONOFABITCH, forgiving through the chop and square edged curbs in the local hardpack track. And I mean SQUARE EDGED! Just needs more bottom end and more peak power. 44 h.p. is a little shy for my 265 lb ass. Had an 02 CR250 and offed it after 1 season. Like riding a blender. My 04 CR450F is now my CR500AF. Just got it finished and already thinking of finding another 93 CR250 and swap the motor into that frame.
orangecrush
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11/28/2011 10:00pm
Denn700 wrote:
The 03/04 steel framed YZ250 or the 05 aluminum frame YZ250? I remember him saying the front end pushed on the 05 or something like that...
The 03/04 steel framed YZ250 or the 05 aluminum frame YZ250? I remember him saying the front end pushed on the 05 or something like that. Has anyone owned both of these bikes? I had an 07 which is like the 05 but never have ridden the 03/04.
He'll be racing a 2 stroke at A1...I know because some dude in FL, here on Vital, said so. Smile
EvanR127
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11/28/2011 10:13pm
Steels are better!!!

People like the 06+ yz because of the suspension!

I had a 06 yz125 and ridden the 250 and never like it. Way to stiff. My 07 rm250 feels a million times better!
jeffro503
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11/28/2011 10:35pm
93 CR250. My favourite bike of all time, and I've owned a lot of bikes. Had it 5 years now, pretty impressive given that it is...
93 CR250. My favourite bike of all time, and I've owned a lot of bikes. Had it 5 years now, pretty impressive given that it is 19 model years old now. No vibes, turns like a SONOFABITCH, forgiving through the chop and square edged curbs in the local hardpack track. And I mean SQUARE EDGED! Just needs more bottom end and more peak power. 44 h.p. is a little shy for my 265 lb ass. Had an 02 CR250 and offed it after 1 season. Like riding a blender. My 04 CR450F is now my CR500AF. Just got it finished and already thinking of finding another 93 CR250 and swap the motor into that frame.
Scooter....you have a 93' CR250? damn......I will totally agree with you on that! The 93' CR250 was one of THE best machines ever produced! Weird thing.....I never owned one , but had two friends who had two brand new ones. I loved thier bikes so much , I raced them more than they did! I didn't ask......they just liked watching me ride the bikes I guess. I was an INT at the time , and both of them were total beginners. Damn.....those bikes bring back some good memories!
AUS_Twisted
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11/28/2011 10:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2011 10:48pm
newmann wrote:
Funny how McGrath refused to ride the 97 Honda, Reed couldn't come to grips with the alloy Yamaha's and other top pros have said the same...
Funny how McGrath refused to ride the 97 Honda, Reed couldn't come to grips with the alloy Yamaha's and other top pros have said the same things yet many of the rocket surgeons here on Vital proclaim the alloy frame the greatest thing since sliced bread. Truth is that chro-mo still reigns supreme, is lighter(because less bulk is required) and allows the bike to be much more service friendly (again due to less bulk). Had anyone suggested attaching a ten pound barbell weight to the top of a works bike cylinder head in the mid 90's everyone would have freaked. Or adding 157 additional moving parts to a fairly simple engine design.....yet here we are. Imagine a light weight motocross bike that was so difficult to start and even more difficult to restart mid moto that adding ten to fifteen pounds worth of battery, electronics and an electric starting motor was the only way to go? The only thing preventing mfgs. from pushing the 200lb. mark was the 216 lb. minimum weight rule for the 250 class. Even then there were several mfgs. who sold production 250's that would have to have weight added to be legal for AMA competition. But somehow we were sold on the idea that thirty or forty pounds heavier was better.....and lighter..... feeling anyway. We've been sold a line of shit over the last decade.
I remember most of the locals at the tracks around here that owned or ridden a 97 didn't like it, most everyone was complaining about the stiffness. Seemed like a few riders didn't mind it though
loftyair
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11/28/2011 11:22pm
I had an 01 and then 03 yz 250, now I have an 06 yz 125 and I think of the 06 is the better bike.
Crush
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11/29/2011 3:10am
I wonder if dominating in 2004 without Ricky Carmichael and James Stewart, and then losing to them once they showed up to race the next year...
I wonder if dominating in 2004 without Ricky Carmichael and James Stewart, and then losing to them once they showed up to race the next year had anything to do with his opinions on the two bikes.
Reed started the 2005 season 17 points down from A1... He was done there... But still had rides like this...

if 2 strokes stayed a few more years he had RC covered in SX, the question would be if James would have kept grenading himself...

dv12.com
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11/29/2011 3:29am
BAD10 wrote:
I believe Reed has stated several times that the 2004 YZ250 was the most bad ass 2stroke race bike he had ever ridden. He didnt like...
I believe Reed has stated several times that the 2004 YZ250 was the most bad ass 2stroke race bike he had ever ridden. He didnt like the aluminum frame in 05 nearly as much
Bingo
themrtoad
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11/29/2011 4:09am
I also liked steelframes rather than aluminium. I loved my 1997 CR125 but hated my 1998 one. I really liked all my RM250's 96-99. Liked the YZ 250 2001, kind of liked my SX380 2001 but nevet got a good feeling with the CR 250 2002.

The steelframes felt more connected to the ground, less stiff on choppy parts and I felt the hooked up better.

Steelframe= lika bmx in a good way
Aluminium= a bus in a bad way
MX_Andrew83
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11/29/2011 4:20am
I wonder if dominating in 2004 without Ricky Carmichael and James Stewart, and then losing to them once they showed up to race the next year...
I wonder if dominating in 2004 without Ricky Carmichael and James Stewart, and then losing to them once they showed up to race the next year had anything to do with his opinions on the two bikes.
Crush wrote:
Reed started the 2005 season 17 points down from A1... He was done there... But still had rides like this... if 2 strokes stayed a few...
Reed started the 2005 season 17 points down from A1... He was done there... But still had rides like this...

if 2 strokes stayed a few more years he had RC covered in SX, the question would be if James would have kept grenading himself...

Of course he would have covered them, that is why he never won a championship when JS7, or RC4 finished the season. Reed is a very consistent rider, but the facts are Reed 's career is much like Dungey's at this point, they both have championships, but there will always be an asterisk from a lot of fans, for not winning when the top competitors were there.

I am not trying to take anything away from his championships, I know I haven't won any, but it was his consistency, and lack of injury that won his championships, not plain beating the pants off RC4, or JS7.
xeroxed74
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11/29/2011 5:23am
I have an 04 YZ250 with 06 suspension. The 06 suspension is so much better then the 04. Im pretty sure with stock bikes the 04 and 05 motors are identical. Ive had my 04 since the spring of 05 and still dont plan on selling it anytime soon. Its deffinetly my favorite bike ive owned or ridden.
mccread
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11/29/2011 5:34am
If I remember right didn't Reed have the opportunity to join Suzuki at the end of 04? If he had went then, instead of RC, things could have been much different. That 250 suzuki was awesome and there 450 was ahead of the Yamaha 450 too..
Hando
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11/29/2011 6:02am
I doubt anyone here would notice the difference between a steel & alum framed bike other then the amount it vibrates nor would it make them any faster or slower.

The 3rd gen cr's are quite complient compared to the earlier ones and handle really good...and they dont look beat to shit after a few rides either.

Aluinum is cheaper too Smile
Jharper
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11/29/2011 6:34am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2011 6:35am
I owned an 03 before and own an 06 now. Big difference as far as feel goes. Not necessarily weight, but feel. I would take the 06 every time. Way better overall feel, although, for the type of riding I do, the 03 is much more stable in the air whereas the 06 moves around a lot more. All preference though. I will say that my 03 was a lot faster than my 06. It was jetted better and had reeds and a pipe and such, so I attribute it to that. Anyway, new technology isn't always better. Heck, suzuki still has steel framed 2 smokes, well did until they gave up on them. If I was going out and buying one I wouldn't be discouraged from buying either or. Find one for the right price and buy it. They are both good bikes.
MtnBoy
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11/29/2011 8:32am
I owned both (several of each actually), like somebody else stated, the 05-06 is a little harsh on acceleration bumps but other than that it's all good. I really don't think you'd be able to tell the difference whichever one you got, both bikes are amazing and you can't go wrong getting a YZ 250.

If it were me, I'd get the aluminum frame version just to have the "newest" model, if you plan on having it for a few years I just think it would be beneficial.
Suns_PSD
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11/29/2011 8:56am
I can't really make a direct comparison but I'll make a generalization.

I rode aluminum framed bikes (CRF450s) and had big get offs all of the time. I usually got flicked off the high side. One day I came up 1' short on a basic table top I had done 100s of times, did a death bounce, landed slightly sideways on the flats, and just had a huge flick that took me weeks to recover from. That was typical of my crashes back then.

I then bought a steel framed 2 stroke (250SX) . I really believe that 75% of the handling improvement came from that steel frame (not the 2 stroke itself) because I went from not being able to get away w/ anything to riding on the ragged edge for years w/ no crashes. I literally went from a guy that struggled as a novice and crashed constantly, to an Intermediate that never crashed.

Whatever it was, between the WFO all of the time and the chassis that allowed me to get away w/ murder, riding became a hell of a lot more entertaining (and fast) for me.
Deetsmx
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11/29/2011 9:34am
Suns_PSD wrote:
I can't really make a direct comparison but I'll make a generalization. I rode aluminum framed bikes (CRF450s) and had big get offs all of the...
I can't really make a direct comparison but I'll make a generalization.

I rode aluminum framed bikes (CRF450s) and had big get offs all of the time. I usually got flicked off the high side. One day I came up 1' short on a basic table top I had done 100s of times, did a death bounce, landed slightly sideways on the flats, and just had a huge flick that took me weeks to recover from. That was typical of my crashes back then.

I then bought a steel framed 2 stroke (250SX) . I really believe that 75% of the handling improvement came from that steel frame (not the 2 stroke itself) because I went from not being able to get away w/ anything to riding on the ragged edge for years w/ no crashes. I literally went from a guy that struggled as a novice and crashed constantly, to an Intermediate that never crashed.

Whatever it was, between the WFO all of the time and the chassis that allowed me to get away w/ murder, riding became a hell of a lot more entertaining (and fast) for me.
You may have a point, but once 450's get out of shape they are much harder to bring back. My brother has an 06 cr250 and it's not nearly as harsh as my YZ. My main issue with the YZ is when the dirt is intermediate/hard terrain, that's where you really feel the rigidity.
bvm111
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11/29/2011 11:04am
Suns_PSD wrote:
I can't really make a direct comparison but I'll make a generalization. I rode aluminum framed bikes (CRF450s) and had big get offs all of the...
I can't really make a direct comparison but I'll make a generalization.

I rode aluminum framed bikes (CRF450s) and had big get offs all of the time. I usually got flicked off the high side. One day I came up 1' short on a basic table top I had done 100s of times, did a death bounce, landed slightly sideways on the flats, and just had a huge flick that took me weeks to recover from. That was typical of my crashes back then.

I then bought a steel framed 2 stroke (250SX) . I really believe that 75% of the handling improvement came from that steel frame (not the 2 stroke itself) because I went from not being able to get away w/ anything to riding on the ragged edge for years w/ no crashes. I literally went from a guy that struggled as a novice and crashed constantly, to an Intermediate that never crashed.

Whatever it was, between the WFO all of the time and the chassis that allowed me to get away w/ murder, riding became a hell of a lot more entertaining (and fast) for me.
Funny you mention that about the aluminum framed CR then going to a steel frame and feeling like a Hero... I did the same thing with 98 CR250, crashed alot the same way you mentioned. I would be riding along and the thing would just spit you off the highside! I switched to a 2000 KX250 when they first came out and I also started riding better and had almost zero crashes on that bike and thats when I moved from a pretty fast novice to being able to hang with my friends that were Intermediate and Local Pro... they were like whoah what happened to you when did you get that fast!

I loved that bike and I am looking to get my hands on one if I can!

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