The future of dirt bikes...

Sherwood
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Sherwood 10/30/2011 2:38pm
10/30/2011 2:38pm
jsanger211 wrote:
Does anyone know why they still are useing a steel frame?
WhKnuckle wrote:
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only...
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only flexes in the directions and degree you want. With an aluminum frame, you start with a naturally inflexible structure and you have to find ways to feed flex into it so it's not too rigid. I have two CR500AFs, one built on a pretty rigid CR250R chassis, and the other built on a more flexible CRF250R chassis. The more flexible (forgiving) one is far superior in my opinion.

Since the invention of the aluminum frame, factories have been trying to find ways to make them "feel" like steel frames. Why not just start with steel? Especially when you can build the bikes just as light as an aluminum frame one?
RaceFace wrote:
I tend to agree but also expect KTM to make the switch within a few years. The aluminum frames are a sales ploy, as is EFI...
I tend to agree but also expect KTM to make the switch within a few years. The aluminum frames are a sales ploy, as is EFI. Yes, EFI has advantages but do we need it and at what cost? Same with the aluminum frames. There are some that see steel frames as archaic as they do now with carbureted bikes.

As for KTM taking over completely, not until they are head and shoulders the best choice for moto. They rule in offroad because they are the best setup for the task at hand. In moto though, they aren't the only game and most likely not the best performance across the board. Then it has to be factored in that KTMs sell for $300-$400 more than the Japanese counterparts. I think that is a big source of this "quality build" that exists. Much of KTMs perceived impending dominance in the U.S. will ride on Dungey looking like he moves forward in speed this year. If he falters, KTM takes a bit of a hit, as far as taking over.
How long did KTM swear by no linkage, the 350 being the future and other crazy ideas?
eThug
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eThug 10/30/2011 2:44pm
10/30/2011 2:44pm
aluminum is obviously cheaper then steel..lol.

I dont like ktm's..never rode one and dont think i'd buy one but i like them as a company.

they support fmx riders, woods guys..mx'ers.......KTM is motorcycles. cant knock that.
StatutoryApe
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StatutoryApe 10/30/2011 2:48pm
10/30/2011 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 10/30/2011 2:48pm
ky_savage wrote:
Will they not make them, or will we not import them? Or worse than that, will they own the USA?
The USA sold out to China/Japan a long time ago bud, they already own us.
machine
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machine 10/30/2011 2:49pm
10/30/2011 2:49pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only...
Personally, I'm not all that infatuated with aluminum frames. With a steel frame, you start with a naturally flexible structure and reinforce it so it only flexes in the directions and degree you want. With an aluminum frame, you start with a naturally inflexible structure and you have to find ways to feed flex into it so it's not too rigid. I have two CR500AFs, one built on a pretty rigid CR250R chassis, and the other built on a more flexible CRF250R chassis. The more flexible (forgiving) one is far superior in my opinion.

Since the invention of the aluminum frame, factories have been trying to find ways to make them "feel" like steel frames. Why not just start with steel? Especially when you can build the bikes just as light as an aluminum frame one?
RaceFace wrote:
I tend to agree but also expect KTM to make the switch within a few years. The aluminum frames are a sales ploy, as is EFI...
I tend to agree but also expect KTM to make the switch within a few years. The aluminum frames are a sales ploy, as is EFI. Yes, EFI has advantages but do we need it and at what cost? Same with the aluminum frames. There are some that see steel frames as archaic as they do now with carbureted bikes.

As for KTM taking over completely, not until they are head and shoulders the best choice for moto. They rule in offroad because they are the best setup for the task at hand. In moto though, they aren't the only game and most likely not the best performance across the board. Then it has to be factored in that KTMs sell for $300-$400 more than the Japanese counterparts. I think that is a big source of this "quality build" that exists. Much of KTMs perceived impending dominance in the U.S. will ride on Dungey looking like he moves forward in speed this year. If he falters, KTM takes a bit of a hit, as far as taking over.
Sherwood wrote:
How long did KTM swear by no linkage, the 350 being the future and other crazy ideas?
About as long as the japs have sworn by aluminum frames and 4-strokes. By thinking out of the box, KTM is moving the sport forward.

Oh, and my no link suspension doesn't hold me back, my skill level does. Meanwhile, I enjoy a bike that weighs 5 lbs lighter due to no linkage weight.

The Shop

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RaceFace
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RaceFace 10/30/2011 2:58pm
10/30/2011 2:58pm
Sherwood wrote:
How long did KTM swear by no linkage, the 350 being the future and other crazy ideas?
Yeah, and remember for 10 years they pushed the linkageless design and the masses kept talking about linkage, linkage, linkage. Linkage is another marketing ploy in my opinion, and I do think KTM was on the right track with that but just couldn't get good settings with it. The biggest problem from a sales stance is that everyone had the opinion that linkage is needed. When the 350 came out all I heard was "Linkage!" including being touted by KTM as a new break-through? People ate it up though.
eThug
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eThug 10/30/2011 3:02pm
10/30/2011 3:02pm
Everts came in and told Pit Beirer that they needed the Linkage..

it looks like they have been getting better and better every year..
aFACEdismembered 10/30/2011 3:24pm
10/30/2011 3:24pm
eThug wrote:
aluminum is obviously cheaper then steel..lol. I dont like ktm's..never rode one and dont think i'd buy one but i like them as a company. they...
aluminum is obviously cheaper then steel..lol.

I dont like ktm's..never rode one and dont think i'd buy one but i like them as a company.

they support fmx riders, woods guys..mx'ers.......KTM is motorcycles. cant knock that.
While I get your analogy with KTM's its like saying you're a vegetarian because you hate the taste of meat even though you've never ate meat before... you just like it as a global product. Silly
ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 3:25pm
10/30/2011 3:25pm
StatutoryApe wrote:
The USA sold out to China/Japan a long time ago bud, they already own us.
This is true.
Antipodean 10/30/2011 3:41pm
10/30/2011 3:41pm
StatutoryApe wrote:
The USA sold out to China/Japan a long time ago bud, they already own us.
ky_savage wrote:
This is true.
If not "own", they hold the mortgage documents.

As for KTM; just think: 3 Year Plan - of which, Year 1 has just about concluded and look at how much everybody is already talkin' about them.
ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 3:48pm
10/30/2011 3:48pm
I want KTM to take over. The Japanese brands have had their way for too long. Time for a change.
Antipodean 10/30/2011 4:00pm
10/30/2011 4:00pm
ky_savage wrote:
I want KTM to take over. The Japanese brands have had their way for too long. Time for a change.
Hang on, isn't that what the whole OWS thing is all about?!
ky_savage
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ky_savage 10/30/2011 4:28pm
10/30/2011 4:28pm
I'm not familiar with the OWS.
Antipodean 10/30/2011 4:30pm
10/30/2011 4:30pm
ky_savage wrote:
I'm not familiar with the OWS.
You are; however, you probably know it as Occupy Wall Street.
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 10/31/2011 9:58am
10/31/2011 9:58am
I rode and raced Japanese (mostly street bikes) for years.

I purchased 2 new KTMs in '07 and then '08. The recession has prevented me from purchasing more but fortunately they are incredibly well built machines and are holding up very well indeed.

I doubt I'll ever purchase a new Jap bike again.

My 2 best friends have switched over as well.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/31/2011 10:55am
10/31/2011 10:55am Edited Date/Time 10/31/2011 1:32pm
I actually had an 86 KTM 500. Was a little stodgy but held up well.

The only thing holding KTMs back is their front fender. IMO they should have kept PDS on the 2-strokes. It wouldn't matter on the 4-strokes, since they're boat anchors anyway.
Racer92
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Racer92 10/31/2011 12:03pm
10/31/2011 12:03pm
rocrac wrote:
They can all choke on their $8,000 dirt bikes as far as I'm concerned KTM included.
Ditto that. Im gonna ride & rebuild my '05 (that I paid under 5K for brand new) until Im pushing daisies.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 10/31/2011 12:45pm
10/31/2011 12:45pm
rocrac wrote:
They can all choke on their $8,000 dirt bikes as far as I'm concerned KTM included.
Racer92 wrote:
Ditto that. Im gonna ride & rebuild my '05 (that I paid under 5K for brand new) until Im pushing daisies.
Steve's gonna have to keep that '012 running through '016 too. That's when he gets out of college, and then he can buy his own bikes. BTW, we went out to Rio on Sunday and he had a blast on it - and I found one good thing about his 125, it doesn't throw as much roost. Tongue
2smokers
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2smokers 10/31/2011 3:30pm
10/31/2011 3:30pm
Have never really liked KTM's, but they seem to be the only main brand continuing to advance the 2 strokes so it may be a KTM for my next bike. Sad to see other manufactures totally stop producing 2 strokes. Hopefully they will be back someday.

Pit Row

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