about racing 250t vs 250f...

Kryan5
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Kryan5 10/19/2011 11:08am
10/19/2011 11:08am
flyinb501 wrote:
In my district you can ride 250T's in the 250 class.
reded wrote:
For you guys whose districts allow it, is there a resurgence of the 2stroke with some of the fast guys or is it pretty much a...
For you guys whose districts allow it, is there a resurgence of the 2stroke with some of the fast guys or is it pretty much a dead horse?
its allowed in our district and there is def. a resurgence. They win some. Its nice to see, but at the same time I don't really care. I have fun on my 2 stroke and hope to soon have a new 250sx and thats all that really matters to me being a 28y/o racing some fast as shit teenieboopers. To be honest i think the open classes is easier anyways because of all the fast minis coming up usually just ride the 250 class even on my 250t.
reded
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reded 10/19/2011 11:09am
10/19/2011 11:09am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 11:11am
adamdf wrote:
dude, i may have agreed with you on the fashionable comment a year ago....but people are getting wiser and 2 strokes are popping up all over...
dude, i may have agreed with you on the fashionable comment a year ago....but people are getting wiser and 2 strokes are popping up all over the place, slowly, but surely
That was pretty much a nudge in the guts at the guys who claim to be "CORE".
fader418
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fader418 10/19/2011 11:18am
10/19/2011 11:18am
Like I said before I like everything that DC does for the nationals. Not allowing 250 2 strokes in the 250 class just doesn't make sense. I mean what is the worst that can happen? The way it is now Mitch wins damn near every moto and almost sweeps every podium. So why change anything?
reded
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reded 10/19/2011 11:30am
10/19/2011 11:30am
To be honest with you, the 250 class bores me to death. I'm not sure why anyone else even wastes their money on that class. They should just call it the Pro-Circuit class and let Mitchs boys duke it out for the title.

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fader418
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fader418 10/19/2011 11:33am
10/19/2011 11:33am
reded wrote:
To be honest with you, the 250 class bores me to death. I'm not sure why anyone else even wastes their money on that class. They...
To be honest with you, the 250 class bores me to death. I'm not sure why anyone else even wastes their money on that class. They should just call it the Pro-Circuit class and let Mitchs boys duke it out for the title.
True
miedosoracing1 10/19/2011 11:50am
10/19/2011 11:50am Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 12:08pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Last week I had a great conversation with the promoter of the biggest MX series on the West Coast about why 250 four strokes can't race...
Last week I had a great conversation with the promoter of the biggest MX series on the West Coast about why 250 four strokes can't race 250 two strokes heads up.

"Basically it comes down to this for every 1 call i got asking if I would allow 250 two strokes to race in the 250 class against 250 four strokes, I got 10 calls to tell me if I allowed it they wouldn't race my series. This was not factory pressure it was from families with kids racing. So I had a choice, take a big chance with my business or just keep things as they are. Besides its only the Vet's who want to race a two stroke and they can race anything they want now."

So for all the hand wringing, bitching and whining that goes on about how its just not fair, the evil promoters, the factories are behind it all and basically the 250F has ruined MX as we know it, the driving force (at least out here) is its the Amateur Racing families, the ones the change is supposed to benefit, don't want it to happen.
Hey Worcs, I can dig what he is worried about. But something to consider. The exact same thing was said, when locals asked if 450F's and 250F's were gonna be allowed to race in the same class as the 125 and 250. I'm not racing a 250F against my 125. So although I sympathise with this guy, he doesn't have a fact, he just has the "who screams the loudest." I'm sure you know the owner of Oak Hill here in the DFW. Call him and ask him if, just because he made the rules cc vs cc, has he had people not race. People aren't racing for the economy, not because of what bike is allowed. Sure Oak Hill is down probably, everywhere is, but not because of the bikes cc vs cc rules. Actually in the end, because 2 strokes are cheaper in all aspects and this economy blows, maybe this guy would actually increase riders due to the change. So for facts, I'd ask a person who has changed the rules. Ask Wardy on here from District 17. He's had a surge in 125's. I think he pointed out he has the biggest turnouts in that class. So tell your buddy/promoter, that maybe he will lose some in some classes, but will gain in others. Did he mention he would have a ton of 125's show up?

By the way, I thought all the 4 stroke guys weren't worried about 2 strokes, because they were dead, or something like that??? I think someone else hit the nail on the head, saying it's the papi's who paid Pro Circuit a bunch of dough, and doesn't want a smack down from a 2002 RM.
queen of spodes 10/19/2011 12:00pm
10/19/2011 12:00pm
I haven't raced locally since '06 so things may have changed since. I was allowed to run my kx250 in the 250f class. I was still slow and finished back of the pack. Rider trump bike.
NP301
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NP301 10/19/2011 12:03pm
10/19/2011 12:03pm
flyinb501 wrote:
In my district you can ride 250T's in the 250 class.
reded wrote:
For you guys whose districts allow it, is there a resurgence of the 2stroke with some of the fast guys or is it pretty much a...
For you guys whose districts allow it, is there a resurgence of the 2stroke with some of the fast guys or is it pretty much a dead horse?
I raced one this past weekend and had a blast!! and there are (in the intermediate and expert) about 10 out of 25 people a weekend racing them. We've also seen a few 500s!
burn1986
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burn1986 10/19/2011 12:30pm
10/19/2011 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 12:33pm
X2 What Mied said!
cpj36
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cpj36 10/19/2011 1:11pm
10/19/2011 1:11pm
They bitch & whine because they've already converted to the more expensive 4 stk program and the thought of giving up performance and financial advantage irks them I guess. Didn't matter when the 125 was rendered obsolete and it was just tough shit for everyone still on one.
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WORCSRacer 10/19/2011 1:29pm
10/19/2011 1:29pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Last week I had a great conversation with the promoter of the biggest MX series on the West Coast about why 250 four strokes can't race...
Last week I had a great conversation with the promoter of the biggest MX series on the West Coast about why 250 four strokes can't race 250 two strokes heads up.

"Basically it comes down to this for every 1 call i got asking if I would allow 250 two strokes to race in the 250 class against 250 four strokes, I got 10 calls to tell me if I allowed it they wouldn't race my series. This was not factory pressure it was from families with kids racing. So I had a choice, take a big chance with my business or just keep things as they are. Besides its only the Vet's who want to race a two stroke and they can race anything they want now."

So for all the hand wringing, bitching and whining that goes on about how its just not fair, the evil promoters, the factories are behind it all and basically the 250F has ruined MX as we know it, the driving force (at least out here) is its the Amateur Racing families, the ones the change is supposed to benefit, don't want it to happen.
ML512 wrote:
Steve isn't making this stuff up, Personally i work at a track to make extra money here in southern california and before our last race series...
Steve isn't making this stuff up, Personally i work at a track to make extra money here in southern california and before our last race series started i was getting tons of phone calls about this same question. We had way more calls from parents that were asking if there would be 250T's in the 250 class and they said if there was they wouldn't race, there was very few who wanted to race them in the amateur classes, most did not want them mixed together. In the vet classes however the percentage was nearly reversed in wanting to race them in their classes.
seth505 wrote:
This has me perplexed. The only real reason I can think of for this being true is that because every young racer/moto parent thinks they are...
This has me perplexed. The only real reason I can think of for this being true is that because every young racer/moto parent thinks they are going to be the next big pro...so they "have to" ride what the pros ride for when they make their big debut at A1 some dayWhistling
Ding ding ding.... You are correct sir.

And every insecure racer that is "living the factory fantasy". You can't pose as a factory or support guy if your not running a four stroke right?

Pssssst dude the Monster graphics and gear aren't fooling anyone.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/19/2011 1:34pm
10/19/2011 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 1:35pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Ding ding ding.... You are correct sir. And every insecure racer that is "living the factory fantasy". You can't pose as a factory or support guy...
Ding ding ding.... You are correct sir.

And every insecure racer that is "living the factory fantasy". You can't pose as a factory or support guy if your not running a four stroke right?

Pssssst dude the Monster graphics and gear aren't fooling anyone.
So what have you done so far WORCS? I mean, are the 250s racing together? Just curious.
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 10/19/2011 1:39pm
10/19/2011 1:39pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Ding ding ding.... You are correct sir. And every insecure racer that is "living the factory fantasy". You can't pose as a factory or support guy...
Ding ding ding.... You are correct sir.

And every insecure racer that is "living the factory fantasy". You can't pose as a factory or support guy if your not running a four stroke right?

Pssssst dude the Monster graphics and gear aren't fooling anyone.
burn1986 wrote:
So what have you done so far WORCS? I mean, are the 250s racing together? Just curious.
They have been racing together for two years in WORCS.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 10/19/2011 1:41pm
10/19/2011 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 1:42pm
You can race either kind of 250 in the 250 class in our dist. also. There is 250 A,B,and C and Open A,B,and C.
flyinb501
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flyinb501 10/19/2011 1:46pm
10/19/2011 1:46pm
flyinb501 wrote:
In my district you can ride 250T's in the 250 class.
reded wrote:
For you guys whose districts allow it, is there a resurgence of the 2stroke with some of the fast guys or is it pretty much a...
For you guys whose districts allow it, is there a resurgence of the 2stroke with some of the fast guys or is it pretty much a dead horse?
I haven't been to the races in 11 years, and hadn't even ridden in about 10 years up until 3 weeks ago so I couldn't tell you. But when I learned this, it pretty much made up my mind on buying and racing a 250T for next year. For now I just picked up a cheap, clean 2000 YZ 125 to get some rides in before winter, and I've been having a blast.

IMO though when you're back in the B and C classes it is much more rider skill than bike. I was out at an open practice at one of the local tracks last weekend, and I was passing all kinds of guys on the big 4 strokes. A lot of these guys just do not know how to ride fast period.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/19/2011 1:46pm
10/19/2011 1:46pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
They have been racing together for two years in WORCS.
Gotcha. I have to say, that's a tough situation. Hope it goes better for you.
miedosoracing1 10/19/2011 1:53pm
10/19/2011 1:53pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Ding ding ding.... You are correct sir. And every insecure racer that is "living the factory fantasy". You can't pose as a factory or support guy...
Ding ding ding.... You are correct sir.

And every insecure racer that is "living the factory fantasy". You can't pose as a factory or support guy if your not running a four stroke right?

Pssssst dude the Monster graphics and gear aren't fooling anyone.
burn1986 wrote:
So what have you done so far WORCS? I mean, are the 250s racing together? Just curious.
WORCSRacer wrote:
They have been racing together for two years in WORCS.
So, what you are saying, is that it didn't make the 4 strokes up and leave? That racing went on? Just clarifying. Maybe the guy you spoke too, should have known a prior outcome of similar situations.
Hallzilla
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Hallzilla 10/19/2011 1:57pm
10/19/2011 1:57pm
reded wrote:
Two strokes will not become fashionable again until some big name starts beating other big names on one. Then all of a sudden it'll be cool...
Two strokes will not become fashionable again until some big name starts beating other big names on one. Then all of a sudden it'll be cool to ride a 2stroke again and all the little sheep will flock to the dealers and snatch up the 2strokes.

I say fuck the fashion show and enjoy the ride. I ride 2strokes and wouldn't be a lick faster on a new 450 of any brand so I keep it simple.
Fashionable ? How about just straight up better technology, If that's fashionable than sign me up. The 4 strokes are far superior machines period.

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MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/19/2011 2:00pm
10/19/2011 2:00pm
"Ask Wardy on here from District 17"

And this is exactly were we race, along with D18. 2 strokes are on the rise like you wouldn't believe.
Ddavis
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Ddavis 10/19/2011 2:03pm
10/19/2011 2:03pm
I'm really considering getting a 250t and racing it, cheaper.
mxpunk
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mxpunk 10/19/2011 2:13pm
10/19/2011 2:13pm
i had an 01 cr250 in 2005-2006 ...i moto'd 3 times a week and the bike never gave me a SINGLE problem. i cleaned the filter every ride, changed the oil every 3 rides and adjusted the chain.

that would have never happened on a 250 thumper
Hallzilla
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Hallzilla 10/19/2011 2:16pm
10/19/2011 2:16pm
Ddavis wrote:
I'm really considering getting a 250t and racing it, cheaper.
This is why you see more at the track these days .... F'nn Economy
miedosoracing1 10/19/2011 2:34pm
10/19/2011 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 2:57pm
Ddavis wrote:
I'm really considering getting a 250t and racing it, cheaper.
Hallzilla wrote:
This is why you see more at the track these days .... F'nn Economy
I'm gonna just throw this into the mix. The rules being changed to cc vs cc in most areas, had nothing to do with the return of the 2 stroke... Sarc alert
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OldYZRider1 10/19/2011 3:13pm
10/19/2011 3:13pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Last week I had a great conversation with the promoter of the biggest MX series on the West Coast about why 250 four strokes can't race...
Last week I had a great conversation with the promoter of the biggest MX series on the West Coast about why 250 four strokes can't race 250 two strokes heads up.

"Basically it comes down to this for every 1 call i got asking if I would allow 250 two strokes to race in the 250 class against 250 four strokes, I got 10 calls to tell me if I allowed it they wouldn't race my series. This was not factory pressure it was from families with kids racing. So I had a choice, take a big chance with my business or just keep things as they are. Besides its only the Vet's who want to race a two stroke and they can race anything they want now."

So for all the hand wringing, bitching and whining that goes on about how its just not fair, the evil promoters, the factories are behind it all and basically the 250F has ruined MX as we know it, the driving force (at least out here) is its the Amateur Racing families, the ones the change is supposed to benefit, don't want it to happen.
ML512 wrote:
Steve isn't making this stuff up, Personally i work at a track to make extra money here in southern california and before our last race series...
Steve isn't making this stuff up, Personally i work at a track to make extra money here in southern california and before our last race series started i was getting tons of phone calls about this same question. We had way more calls from parents that were asking if there would be 250T's in the 250 class and they said if there was they wouldn't race, there was very few who wanted to race them in the amateur classes, most did not want them mixed together. In the vet classes however the percentage was nearly reversed in wanting to race them in their classes.
seth505 wrote:
This has me perplexed. The only real reason I can think of for this being true is that because every young racer/moto parent thinks they are...
This has me perplexed. The only real reason I can think of for this being true is that because every young racer/moto parent thinks they are going to be the next big pro...so they "have to" ride what the pros ride for when they make their big debut at A1 some dayWhistling
I'd say your right. The parents of kids who they feel have a shot at progressing up into pro ranks probably aren't going to even consider running the two stroke bikes as theres no continuation of that path in the pro ranks. Were that to change, as so many of us suggest, we might see more riders switch to two strokes as amateurs.

Also I'd expect some of the families/riders referred to by the OP are likely sponsored by a dealer of a Japanese brand who does not offer a two stroke for them to compete with, if they did they might be all for it.
Premixed
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Premixed 10/19/2011 4:07pm
10/19/2011 4:07pm
it just blows my mind to see two strokes spoken of like they are some unknown voodoo. i guess im just getting old.

i think what is going to blow hte lid off all this i going to be the confirmation (or lack of) the 2014 honda/yamaha EFI two stroke rumors
Mr. Ted
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Mr. Ted 10/19/2011 4:12pm
10/19/2011 4:12pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 4:13pm
What I don't understand is, if the 4 stroke technology is so superior and is so much more rideable, then why would anyone care if a 250 2 stroke raced a 250 4 stroke? Certainly everyone would want the best technology and therefore choose based on need. So, IMO, it makes the pro 4 stroke argument moot. If it is such a huge issue, then obviously 4 strokes must not be that superior. You can't have it both ways.
Premixed
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Premixed 10/19/2011 4:18pm
10/19/2011 4:18pm
i blame it all the the hormones they give the cows. its causing kids sacks to not drop. you've got all these kids with a Beiber hair-do, gnawing on a leatt brace and thats why they cant handle anything with a mid range snap like a YZ250 with a hogged out cylinder and a pipe.

i seriously feel so bad for the current crowd of young MX guys. they dont even have a clue how good it was in the early 90s. terrafirma on VHS, RM buck-&quarter in the garage, art eckman and david bailey in the booth

shit was BAR TO BAR
TDeath21
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TDeath21 10/19/2011 4:46pm
10/19/2011 4:46pm
The two stroke is harder to learn to ride, and subsequently a rider will take longer to learn how to go faster on. Solution? Four strokes! That way you can go faster without actually being a better rider! ....... Oh shit why is everyone getting paralyzed or killed every other week now? Hmmm.........
chump6784
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chump6784 10/19/2011 4:56pm
10/19/2011 4:56pm
Hallzilla wrote:
Fashionable ? How about just straight up better technology, If that's fashionable than sign me up. The 4 strokes are far superior machines period.
so you wouldnt be worried about 250 2 strokes racing against 250 4 strokes then because they are superior?

we have it so simple in oz. over here every track is registered with Motorcycling Australia (MA). They dictate classes and so forth and every track has to follow those.

For Junior Lites, a junior being a rider under 16, the bikes are up to 250cc 4 stroke, up to 150cc 2 stroke
Senior lites, riders over 16 and up, 250cc 4 stroke, 250cc 2 stroke

every track has those classes and there are no issues. where i live on the gold coast there is still far more 4 strokes than 2 strokes racing. our economy is much better than over there and the gold coast is a wealthier part of the country. one of my mates lives up in far north queensland where there isnt the same amount of money and up there the fastest guys in the 250 class are on 2 strokes.

i do agree with what has been said above, the people complaining about the 2 strokes racing the 4 strokes are the ones scared their latest model bike with all the latest technology will get beaten by someone that actually learned real riding skills
Hallzilla
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Hallzilla 10/19/2011 4:59pm
10/19/2011 4:59pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2011 5:01pm
Mr. Ted wrote:
What I don't understand is, if the 4 stroke technology is so superior and is so much more rideable, then why would anyone care if a...
What I don't understand is, if the 4 stroke technology is so superior and is so much more rideable, then why would anyone care if a 250 2 stroke raced a 250 4 stroke? Certainly everyone would want the best technology and therefore choose based on need. So, IMO, it makes the pro 4 stroke argument moot. If it is such a huge issue, then obviously 4 strokes must not be that superior. You can't have it both ways.
I say let the 2 strokes race with the 4 strokes. If you think there is no tech gap between the 2, go back to the early days of 4 strokes at supercross, and how 1 by 1 the die hard 2 stroke rider had to jump ship to keep up .......

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