Who are the top 10 450 riders in the world?

P
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P 9/25/2011 12:02pm
9/25/2011 12:02pm
flarider wrote:
If Stewart isn't on it, it's bullshit
I agree.


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FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 9/25/2011 12:07pm
9/25/2011 12:07pm
Villo and Dungey are not faster than bubba. I like both the dudes but... Its jus not so.
Ddavis
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Ddavis 9/25/2011 12:08pm
9/25/2011 12:08pm
1. Ricky Carmichael, retired but with pure speed he can probably still win, by 2 minutes Tongue
2. Chad Reed, badass mothafucker.
3. Ryan Villopoto, sx champ, mx champ, mxdn champ.
4. Ryan Dungey, threat whenever he races.
5. Antonio Cairoli, world champion.
6. Mike Alessi, he can still win.
7. Christophe Pourcel, he can still win titles... in America.
8. James Stewart, he can still make everyone look like novices.
9. Clement Desalle, talented, if he can stay healthy he can win a world title.
10. Justin Barcia, barciabarciabarcia!
Riesenberg448 9/25/2011 12:11pm
9/25/2011 12:11pm
Ddavis wrote:
1. Ricky Carmichael, retired but with pure speed he can probably still win, by 2 minutes :P 2. Chad Reed, badass mothafucker. 3. Ryan Villopoto, sx...
1. Ricky Carmichael, retired but with pure speed he can probably still win, by 2 minutes Tongue
2. Chad Reed, badass mothafucker.
3. Ryan Villopoto, sx champ, mx champ, mxdn champ.
4. Ryan Dungey, threat whenever he races.
5. Antonio Cairoli, world champion.
6. Mike Alessi, he can still win.
7. Christophe Pourcel, he can still win titles... in America.
8. James Stewart, he can still make everyone look like novices.
9. Clement Desalle, talented, if he can stay healthy he can win a world title.
10. Justin Barcia, barciabarciabarcia!
Trey Canard ought to be somewhere on there I would think.

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Outsider
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Outsider 9/25/2011 12:16pm
9/25/2011 12:16pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Villo and Dungey are not faster than bubba. I like both the dudes but... Its jus not so.
Define "faster"..

I disagree.
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 9/25/2011 12:25pm
9/25/2011 12:25pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Villo and Dungey are not faster than bubba. I like both the dudes but... Its jus not so.
Outsider wrote:
Define "faster"..

I disagree.
fast 1 (fst)
adj. fast·er, fast·est
1. Acting, moving, or capable of acting or moving quickly; swift.
2.
a. Accomplished in relatively little time: a fast visit.
b. Acquired quickly with little effort and sometimes unscrupulously: made a fast buck scalping tickets.
3. Quick to understand or learn; mentally agile: a class for the faster students.
4. Indicating a time somewhat ahead of the actual time: The clock is fast.
5. Allowing rapid movement or action: a fast running track.
6. Designed for or compatible with a short exposure time: fast film.
7.
a. Disposed to dissipation; wild: ran with a fast crowd.
b. Flouting conventional moral standards; sexually promiscuous.
8. Resistant, as to destruction or fading: fast colors.
9. Firmly fixed or fastened: a fast grip.
10. Fixed firmly in place; secure: shutters that are fast against the rain.
11. Firm in loyalty: fast friends.
12. Lasting; permanent: fast rules and regulations.
13. Deep; sound: in a fast sleep.
adv. faster, fastest
1. In a secure manner; tightly: hold fast.
2. To a sound degree; deeply: fast asleep.
3. In a rapid manner; quickly.
4. In quick succession: New ideas followed fast.
5. Ahead of the correct or expected time: a watch that runs fast.
6. In a dissipated, immoderate way: living fast.
7. Archaic Close by; near.
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kongols 9/25/2011 12:27pm
9/25/2011 12:27pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Villo and Dungey are not faster than bubba. I like both the dudes but... Its jus not so.
Outsider wrote:
Define "faster"..

I disagree.
What a shocker !!!Laughing Wink Cool
Outsider
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Outsider 9/25/2011 12:43pm
9/25/2011 12:43pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Villo and Dungey are not faster than bubba. I like both the dudes but... Its jus not so.
Outsider wrote:
Define "faster"..

I disagree.
kongols wrote:
What a shocker !!!Laughing Wink Cool
I guess results don't count
cmess77
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cmess77 9/25/2011 1:07pm
9/25/2011 1:07pm
FIREfish148 wrote:
Villo and Dungey are not faster than bubba. I like both the dudes but... Its jus not so.
Outsider wrote:
Define "faster"..

I disagree.
If Dungey or RV are ever going faster than Stewart he'll just throw on the lights and pull em over.
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Rizzo 9/25/2011 1:58pm
9/25/2011 1:58pm
No Metcalfe, he has been horrible on 450's, all he could do in the series was 2nd last year and 4th this year,(sarcasm) and what about Shorty? Pourcel has not completed a single season on a 450 and to be fair, Canard and Barcia as well. Credit has to be given for puting up solid results for multiple season on a 450.
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PressPassP 9/25/2011 2:02pm
9/25/2011 2:02pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2011 2:06pm
No matter how I try I can't seem to narrow it down to just 10 so I can only split into two as well

AMA (in some kind of order)

RV
Dungey
Stewart
Reed
Canard

Barcia,Alessi

GPs (in much less of an order)

Cairoli
Desalle
Pourcel
Frossard
Bobby

Paulin,Philipaerts
akmx17
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akmx17 9/25/2011 2:18pm
9/25/2011 2:18pm
RV
RD
Reed
Windham
Alessi
Cairoli
Paulin
Canard
Metty
JS
brakkeman_ 9/25/2011 2:21pm
9/25/2011 2:21pm
No order:

Stewart
RV
RD
Reed
Cairoli
Desalle
Paulin(won a GP and 2 races at MXON on his 450, without much testing)
Pourcel
Canard
Frossard
St Ann More 9/25/2011 2:29pm
9/25/2011 2:29pm
Canard and Stewart should be there, but other than that, it's pretty damn accurate!
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broman64 9/25/2011 2:35pm
9/25/2011 2:35pm
brakkeman_ wrote:
No order:

Stewart
RV
RD
Reed
Cairoli
Desalle
Paulin(won a GP and 2 races at MXON on his 450, without much testing)
Pourcel
Canard
Frossard
It is getting clearer...
BMan-
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broman64 9/25/2011 3:02pm
9/25/2011 3:02pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2011 3:28pm
pure conjecture and speculation... The real answer is lost in the opinion poles... They are all fast or faster, quick or quicker, aggressive or more aggressive, intense or more intense... Whatever, The most intense, most aggressive, quickest and fastest motocross racer, at this moment, isn't even on Geoff''s list, if he has been on your list, then he has been robbed by personal subjection that has placed others ahead of him... In my eyes, I see it as it is... So do you... However, we will all see for ourselves, won't we?... BTW, I think. reality is that JS is the Top of the ladder in America, and CP is the Top of the ladder in the GPs... I'd put my money on either, for the bottom line fastest guys, furthermore, they are in a world alone, atop everyone else... Out of the two, you ask?... That would be James Stewart, of course...
Your opinion means "NADA", to me...
BMan-
nc97
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nc97 9/25/2011 4:28pm
9/25/2011 4:28pm
Outsider wrote:
Define "faster"..

I disagree.
kongols wrote:
What a shocker !!!Laughing Wink Cool
Outsider wrote:
I guess results don't count
Fastest man on the planet!Laughing Laughing
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RaceFace 9/25/2011 4:38pm
9/25/2011 4:38pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Stewart's an active rider, even if he hasn't ridden outdoors. Can anyone really say that all things being equal in terms of preparation that if Stewart...
Stewart's an active rider, even if he hasn't ridden outdoors. Can anyone really say that all things being equal in terms of preparation that if Stewart lined up he wouldn't be in contention for top 15?

I don't see how you don't at least acknowledge the guy and then punt on it because he hasn't ridden outdoors for a couple years.

He also doesn't mention Canard at all, but includes Barcia.

Posted in the other thread where I first raised this, but this appears to be the one with legs on this issue even, sorry for the dup.
RaceFace wrote:
So should Roczen or Herlings be on the list? If they lined up in the 450 class with all things being equal in terms of peparation.......
Sherwood wrote:
Have roczen or herlings won 450 championships, had a perfect outdoor season and still race?
James has not raced outdoors since 2008. If this is a 450 SX list he belongs near the top. But that would drop ALL the Euros other than Pourcel off it. I was only making the point that James being off the list is not that far-fetched since there is no indication he races MX anymore. It could be construed as pretty stupid to include someone on the list who may never race outdoors again (although I think he might when money is a factor....like this year?).

I think he belongs on the list, but can also see why he isn't.

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chrisbuehler 9/25/2011 4:39pm
9/25/2011 4:39pm
Outsider wrote:
Define "faster"..

I disagree.
kongols wrote:
What a shocker !!!Laughing Wink Cool
Outsider wrote:
I guess results don't count
X100
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bama205 9/25/2011 5:14pm
9/25/2011 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2011 5:15pm
broman64 wrote:
pure conjecture and speculation... The real answer is lost in the opinion poles... They are all fast or faster, quick or quicker, aggressive or more aggressive...
pure conjecture and speculation... The real answer is lost in the opinion poles... They are all fast or faster, quick or quicker, aggressive or more aggressive, intense or more intense... Whatever, The most intense, most aggressive, quickest and fastest motocross racer, at this moment, isn't even on Geoff''s list, if he has been on your list, then he has been robbed by personal subjection that has placed others ahead of him... In my eyes, I see it as it is... So do you... However, we will all see for ourselves, won't we?... BTW, I think. reality is that JS is the Top of the ladder in America, and CP is the Top of the ladder in the GPs... I'd put my money on either, for the bottom line fastest guys, furthermore, they are in a world alone, atop everyone else... Out of the two, you ask?... That would be James Stewart, of course...
Your opinion means "NADA", to me...
BMan-
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jeffro503 9/25/2011 5:16pm
9/25/2011 5:16pm
It has to be an "out door" list Geoff was referring to there. And in that case , I could see why Stewart wasn't included on the list. He hasn't competed in an out door series since 2008. Except for one showing at dilla where he only did one moto , and didn't start the second moto. It can't be an SX list.....because all the Euro guys wouldn't be on the damn list.

The list of riders that were mentioned in previous posts ( except for RD and Desalle ) we're not racing at Unadilla. But those two guys beat him pretty easily. Now throw in the rest of those Euro's and the Americans on that list in a race , with one more year of Stewart not racing.......and if you are smart , you'll see the big picture.

SX.....different story all together. Stewart has the speed to win on just about any given night , no questions asked. I don't think he is going to be considered a favorite to win another SX title with who he has to line up against , as his consistency will probably be terrible ( like last year ). I would not be surprised if James comes out , and actually wins the first few rounds ( maybe 3 or 4?). But he always seems to have that one , two or three bad race(s) when there is stiff competition on the gate.

There are a few other guys out there that could have that "Ballistic" type speed Stewart has........but they also seem like riders whom want to make it out of the race in one piece.
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bama205 9/25/2011 5:21pm
9/25/2011 5:21pm
RaceFace wrote:
So should Roczen or Herlings be on the list? If they lined up in the 450 class with all things being equal in terms of peparation.......
Sherwood wrote:
Have roczen or herlings won 450 championships, had a perfect outdoor season and still race?
RaceFace wrote:
James has not raced outdoors since 2008. If this is a 450 SX list he belongs near the top. But that would drop ALL the Euros...
James has not raced outdoors since 2008. If this is a 450 SX list he belongs near the top. But that would drop ALL the Euros other than Pourcel off it. I was only making the point that James being off the list is not that far-fetched since there is no indication he races MX anymore. It could be construed as pretty stupid to include someone on the list who may never race outdoors again (although I think he might when money is a factor....like this year?).

I think he belongs on the list, but can also see why he isn't.
Actually it has nothing to do with MX. Or SX. Or racing. It's the top 10 450 riders in the world.
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jeffro503 9/25/2011 5:41pm
9/25/2011 5:41pm
Sherwood wrote:
Have roczen or herlings won 450 championships, had a perfect outdoor season and still race?
RaceFace wrote:
James has not raced outdoors since 2008. If this is a 450 SX list he belongs near the top. But that would drop ALL the Euros...
James has not raced outdoors since 2008. If this is a 450 SX list he belongs near the top. But that would drop ALL the Euros other than Pourcel off it. I was only making the point that James being off the list is not that far-fetched since there is no indication he races MX anymore. It could be construed as pretty stupid to include someone on the list who may never race outdoors again (although I think he might when money is a factor....like this year?).

I think he belongs on the list, but can also see why he isn't.
bama205 wrote:
Actually it has nothing to do with MX. Or SX. Or racing. It's the top 10 450 riders in the world.
Well....if you have Stewart who only does SX , and the Euro's only do outdoors.......shouldn't the list only contain riders who race both? Either that , or you have to make an "out door" list and an "indoor" list .....and keep them separate.

Also.....and since Desalle beat Stewart pretty bad the last time they met , but Desalle has lost against guys like AC , CP and quite a few other GP guys......why would they not be considered better than Stewart?

Outdoors......i think a lot of those guys would beat Stewart. Indoors however......I think Stewart would cream them.

hard to make an accurate list with guys who only race one discipline ( or one series ) and then compare them.
madmaxperformance 9/25/2011 5:51pm
9/25/2011 5:51pm
Outdoors or SX... Stewart is on that list. Now if it was a list for crappy tv reality shows.......
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broman64 9/25/2011 5:55pm
9/25/2011 5:55pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2011 5:57pm
jeffro503 wrote:
It has to be an "out door" list Geoff was referring to there. And in that case , I could see why Stewart wasn't included on...
It has to be an "out door" list Geoff was referring to there. And in that case , I could see why Stewart wasn't included on the list. He hasn't competed in an out door series since 2008. Except for one showing at dilla where he only did one moto , and didn't start the second moto. It can't be an SX list.....because all the Euro guys wouldn't be on the damn list.

The list of riders that were mentioned in previous posts ( except for RD and Desalle ) we're not racing at Unadilla. But those two guys beat him pretty easily. Now throw in the rest of those Euro's and the Americans on that list in a race , with one more year of Stewart not racing.......and if you are smart , you'll see the big picture.

SX.....different story all together. Stewart has the speed to win on just about any given night , no questions asked. I don't think he is going to be considered a favorite to win another SX title with who he has to line up against , as his consistency will probably be terrible ( like last year ). I would not be surprised if James comes out , and actually wins the first few rounds ( maybe 3 or 4?). But he always seems to have that one , two or three bad race(s) when there is stiff competition on the gate.

There are a few other guys out there that could have that "Ballistic" type speed Stewart has........but they also seem like riders whom want to make it out of the race in one piece.
Mx or Sx, it just doesn't matter... you can justify anything.. hell, right now, AC wouldn't be in the top 20 in American Sx, so I know G.M. wasn't refering to SX... JS is the most aggressive, most feared, most intense, fastest, quickest, craziest, takes the biggest risks, accomplishes more obtacles, overcomes more technical track roadblocks, that noone will even touch, SX or MX,... He always will raise the bar to make the pass... American Motocross, if not World Motocross knows he is there and coming, "oh good, hes hurt", is a common thought, amongst his peers, I understand ... He is the Top of American Motocross,.. if you don''t believe me... you better ask someone, anyone that knows, ask his comp... I would say the same for CP, but, JS has him covered...
Thats just the way it is,
BMan-
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Outsider 9/25/2011 6:04pm
9/25/2011 6:04pm
broman64 wrote:
Mx or Sx, it just doesn't matter... you can justify anything.. hell, right now, AC wouldn't be in the top 20 in American Sx, so I...
Mx or Sx, it just doesn't matter... you can justify anything.. hell, right now, AC wouldn't be in the top 20 in American Sx, so I know G.M. wasn't refering to SX... JS is the most aggressive, most feared, most intense, fastest, quickest, craziest, takes the biggest risks, accomplishes more obtacles, overcomes more technical track roadblocks, that noone will even touch, SX or MX,... He always will raise the bar to make the pass... American Motocross, if not World Motocross knows he is there and coming, "oh good, hes hurt", is a common thought, amongst his peers, I understand ... He is the Top of American Motocross,.. if you don''t believe me... you better ask someone, anyone that knows, ask his comp... I would say the same for CP, but, JS has him covered...
Thats just the way it is,
BMan-
Was he hurt this year in SX?

Wow, you take it deep "Bro"
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Premixed 9/25/2011 6:07pm
9/25/2011 6:07pm
Sherwood wrote:
Have roczen or herlings won 450 championships, had a perfect outdoor season and still race?
RaceFace wrote:
James has not raced outdoors since 2008. If this is a 450 SX list he belongs near the top. But that would drop ALL the Euros...
James has not raced outdoors since 2008. If this is a 450 SX list he belongs near the top. But that would drop ALL the Euros other than Pourcel off it. I was only making the point that James being off the list is not that far-fetched since there is no indication he races MX anymore. It could be construed as pretty stupid to include someone on the list who may never race outdoors again (although I think he might when money is a factor....like this year?).

I think he belongs on the list, but can also see why he isn't.
bama205 wrote:
Actually it has nothing to do with MX. Or SX. Or racing. It's the top 10 450 riders in the world.
has nothing to do with SX or MX? ok, then throw Nate Adams on there. I'm pretty sure no one does cliffhanger flips quite like him... LOL
jeffro503
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jeffro503 9/25/2011 6:14pm
9/25/2011 6:14pm
jeffro503 wrote:
It has to be an "out door" list Geoff was referring to there. And in that case , I could see why Stewart wasn't included on...
It has to be an "out door" list Geoff was referring to there. And in that case , I could see why Stewart wasn't included on the list. He hasn't competed in an out door series since 2008. Except for one showing at dilla where he only did one moto , and didn't start the second moto. It can't be an SX list.....because all the Euro guys wouldn't be on the damn list.

The list of riders that were mentioned in previous posts ( except for RD and Desalle ) we're not racing at Unadilla. But those two guys beat him pretty easily. Now throw in the rest of those Euro's and the Americans on that list in a race , with one more year of Stewart not racing.......and if you are smart , you'll see the big picture.

SX.....different story all together. Stewart has the speed to win on just about any given night , no questions asked. I don't think he is going to be considered a favorite to win another SX title with who he has to line up against , as his consistency will probably be terrible ( like last year ). I would not be surprised if James comes out , and actually wins the first few rounds ( maybe 3 or 4?). But he always seems to have that one , two or three bad race(s) when there is stiff competition on the gate.

There are a few other guys out there that could have that "Ballistic" type speed Stewart has........but they also seem like riders whom want to make it out of the race in one piece.
broman64 wrote:
Mx or Sx, it just doesn't matter... you can justify anything.. hell, right now, AC wouldn't be in the top 20 in American Sx, so I...
Mx or Sx, it just doesn't matter... you can justify anything.. hell, right now, AC wouldn't be in the top 20 in American Sx, so I know G.M. wasn't refering to SX... JS is the most aggressive, most feared, most intense, fastest, quickest, craziest, takes the biggest risks, accomplishes more obtacles, overcomes more technical track roadblocks, that noone will even touch, SX or MX,... He always will raise the bar to make the pass... American Motocross, if not World Motocross knows he is there and coming, "oh good, hes hurt", is a common thought, amongst his peers, I understand ... He is the Top of American Motocross,.. if you don''t believe me... you better ask someone, anyone that knows, ask his comp... I would say the same for CP, but, JS has him covered...
Thats just the way it is,
BMan-
Ok? So......he shows up for one outdoor race and goes 3rd-DNF. And then shows up at SX and gets 4th in the standings ( would have been 5th if Canard didn't get hurt )............and those are only the guys here in the USA that beat him ( except Desalle ). So from reading your very well thought out post..........do you care to show me and others what makes him the greatest on the planet compared to all these other riders on these lists? Because his results sure don't show it. Outdoors........he hasn't shown anything since 2008........so I'll be waiting for you response.

And since you won't be able to show me these results , please fill me in " Broman " on why Stewart is your favorite rider. I know why......but I don't think you'll say it.
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broman64 9/25/2011 6:16pm
9/25/2011 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2011 6:17pm
Outsider wrote:
Was he hurt this year in SX?

Wow, you take it deep "Bro"
the other common thought is " oh sh_ _, hes here"...
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machine 9/25/2011 6:23pm
9/25/2011 6:23pm
FastEddy wrote:
Lets see your list... Here is MXGeoffs list. http://www.mxlarge.com/news/5553-top-ten-450cc-riders-in-the-world Here is my list...[b](in no particular order)[/b]. 1 RV 2 RD 3 Stewart 4 AC 5 Canard...
Lets see your list...

Here is MXGeoffs list.
http://www.mxlarge.com/news/5553-top-ten-450cc-riders-in-the-world

Here is my list...(in no particular order).
1 RV
2 RD
3 Stewart
4 AC
5 Canard
6 Barcia
7 Alessi
8 Desalle
9 Reed
10 C. Pourcel
mxlarge's list is pure BS, only 3 American riders, that's comedy right there.

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