is this a joke or what?

Old Mate
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Old Mate 8/6/2010 1:18am
8/6/2010 1:18am
BobbyM wrote:
Team Suzuki's Matt Moss came to REM this weekend at Glen Helen to log some saddle time during the AMA National Motocross series' two-week break. There...
Team Suzuki's Matt Moss came to REM this weekend at Glen Helen to log some saddle time during the AMA National Motocross series' two-week break. There was no doubt that Moss was the fastest rider on the track, but the 450 Pro winner had to spend 20 minutes in the first moto running down 450 Intermediate winner Justin Jones.

this kid JJ is an amateur? damn,..i feel sorry for the other kids that are REALLY amateurs.

this in a nutshell is what is wrong with amateur racing imho. i know DC runs a tight ship at LL and the races leading up to the big dance but the cheating/attempted must run rampant during the year.

i can't imagine not going as fast as i fucking could and trying to win every race i entered, going local pro and as soon as the age allowed it going AMA pro. after all...THAT is the big dance...isn't it?

wtf?
I sort of figured that, i just dont understand his point, is it age groups for nats?Or are classy riders not able to enter nats? By the way G"Day, i have been setting Jake up building our SX track for SuperX as he is back with Suzuki Aus with Matt in the 450 class,were also running supercross schools on the farm and Tony Allessi may also use the track for Mike, other than that i'm on the road coaching.
worcsracer808
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worcsracer808 8/6/2010 1:25am
8/6/2010 1:25am
knobby101 wrote:
Anyone that uses the word "QUAD" on rthis website should be banned for a fucking month.. oh, see, I'm gone, see you in september!
were you listening to the dudes story donnie? then you have no frame of reference here
Antipodean 8/6/2010 1:27am
8/6/2010 1:27am
Old Mate wrote:
I sort of figured that, i just dont understand his point, is it age groups for nats?Or are classy riders not able to enter nats? By...
I sort of figured that, i just dont understand his point, is it age groups for nats?Or are classy riders not able to enter nats? By the way G"Day, i have been setting Jake up building our SX track for SuperX as he is back with Suzuki Aus with Matt in the 450 class,were also running supercross schools on the farm and Tony Allessi may also use the track for Mike, other than that i'm on the road coaching.
Tony Alessi's coming down under! Is he bringing Mike's canoe?

Jokes aside, I hope Jake's recuperating well. I want to see him back in the States to take care of some unfinished business.
Old Mate
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Old Mate 8/6/2010 1:34am
8/6/2010 1:34am
Chad may be back for southwick but should definatly ride SuperX he has also offered to help Tony and Mike, guess Chads layed back attitude might drive Tony crazy or help some, Jake has had a horror year but from unconsious to saving his arm amputation to the broken back i think he will settle for a pro open ride in aus for 2011 and then head back to the states or Europe.

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Justinmx42
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Justinmx42 8/14/2011 11:09pm
8/14/2011 11:09pm
Ok, since I just found this on vital from a friend, I decided to defend myself a bit even though it was like a year ago. Yes I race the B class. No I'm not a sandbagger, there are plenty of other B racers faster then me. I grew up racing this track and know it very well. I got the holeshot and pulled a small gap. Moss closed the gap then tipped over behind me. I led the majority of the race, on the second to last lap he got around and beat me at around a 5 sec gap. When you race with someone fast for the first time and you actually lead a "Top" guy you learn a lot. Like speed and out of control adrenaline haha He also had a nagging wrist injury which hindered he performance. Super nice guy, an goes really fast! I had a great day and will never forget that race. An yes, i race quads every now and then in the pro class. I get it, moto guys hate quad guys. i know quads ruin a track, get over it. It takes real balls to be able to race both. An finally yes, I am a part time test rider for DirtBike mag, and Dirt Wheels mag. Any further questions can be dealt with at Glen Helen Raceway. I practically live there. So just get over it and lets go moto.
TripleFive 8/14/2011 11:14pm
8/14/2011 11:14pm
^ Nice.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 8/15/2011 12:15am
8/15/2011 12:15am
Justinmx42 wrote:
Ok, since I just found this on vital from a friend, I decided to defend myself a bit even though it was like a year ago...
Ok, since I just found this on vital from a friend, I decided to defend myself a bit even though it was like a year ago. Yes I race the B class. No I'm not a sandbagger, there are plenty of other B racers faster then me. I grew up racing this track and know it very well. I got the holeshot and pulled a small gap. Moss closed the gap then tipped over behind me. I led the majority of the race, on the second to last lap he got around and beat me at around a 5 sec gap. When you race with someone fast for the first time and you actually lead a "Top" guy you learn a lot. Like speed and out of control adrenaline haha He also had a nagging wrist injury which hindered he performance. Super nice guy, an goes really fast! I had a great day and will never forget that race. An yes, i race quads every now and then in the pro class. I get it, moto guys hate quad guys. i know quads ruin a track, get over it. It takes real balls to be able to race both. An finally yes, I am a part time test rider for DirtBike mag, and Dirt Wheels mag. Any further questions can be dealt with at Glen Helen Raceway. I practically live there. So just get over it and lets go moto.
Good to see you chimed in on this thread Justin....and welcome aboard. Hope you stick around for a while. Small warning though....it can get pretty verbally intense in here at times.
Old Mate
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Old Mate 8/15/2011 12:20am
8/15/2011 12:20am
Justinmx42,thanks for your comments on Matt and all the best to you mate,his wrist is nearly healed [taken 3 years]and should be at his best by MXoN, he won the aussie titles,thats his 4th Aus lites championship and he will head to the states again next week to be closer to Chad and Metty so you might meet him on the track again as he prepares.
希望
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希望 8/15/2011 1:16am
8/15/2011 1:16am
is bobbyM coming back or has he decided not to mess with the forums anymore?
Hoov
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Hoov 8/15/2011 5:56am
8/15/2011 5:56am
After more information came out through this thread, the particular issue bobbym was citing seems to have some explainations that would account for the appearance of "sandbagging"...but I think the larger point bobby was making was there is a gray area between Amature and Pro levels of racing that a "purist" finds hard to understand. The question of why money is involved in amature sports at all has bugged me for a long time. The "Dream Team" in basketball in the Olymics for instance. I know the other countries pay for, and have basically pro teams that compete in the Olymics, and it would be foolish for a country not to put forward their best to represent them...but the Olymics are supposed to be "Amature only" (like the USA hockey team from 1980). Its sad that money always seems to taint even the best things, like pure amature racing.
mattdavison551 8/15/2011 6:01am
8/15/2011 6:01am
Team Suzuki Matt Moss, Thought he was on a JDR KTM 250!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MX558
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MX558 8/15/2011 6:06am
8/15/2011 6:06am
danman wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty...
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty skinny at quite a few tracks.
That district is one the worst offenders. I know guys that have been top 3 vet b riders for 10 years. I hear of 17 guys buying 16 b cards and racing in district 17 because there is no enforcement to move them up.
SteveS
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SteveS 8/15/2011 6:07am
8/15/2011 6:07am
Hoov wrote:
After more information came out through this thread, the particular issue bobbym was citing seems to have some explainations that would account for the appearance of...
After more information came out through this thread, the particular issue bobbym was citing seems to have some explainations that would account for the appearance of "sandbagging"...but I think the larger point bobby was making was there is a gray area between Amature and Pro levels of racing that a "purist" finds hard to understand. The question of why money is involved in amature sports at all has bugged me for a long time. The "Dream Team" in basketball in the Olymics for instance. I know the other countries pay for, and have basically pro teams that compete in the Olymics, and it would be foolish for a country not to put forward their best to represent them...but the Olymics are supposed to be "Amature only" (like the USA hockey team from 1980). Its sad that money always seems to taint even the best things, like pure amature racing.
Why is money involved in amateur racing? Because the money is for marketing, and the marketing is to the amateur racers.
SlowOldGuy 8/15/2011 7:22am
8/15/2011 7:22am
danman wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty...
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty skinny at quite a few tracks.
MX558 wrote:
That district is one the worst offenders. I know guys that have been top 3 vet b riders for 10 years. I hear of 17 guys...
That district is one the worst offenders. I know guys that have been top 3 vet b riders for 10 years. I hear of 17 guys buying 16 b cards and racing in district 17 because there is no enforcement to move them up.
AMA advancement is now done at the national level and has nothing to do with the district you race in.
526
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526 8/15/2011 7:43am
8/15/2011 7:43am
danman wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty...
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty skinny at quite a few tracks.
MX558 wrote:
That district is one the worst offenders. I know guys that have been top 3 vet b riders for 10 years. I hear of 17 guys...
That district is one the worst offenders. I know guys that have been top 3 vet b riders for 10 years. I hear of 17 guys buying 16 b cards and racing in district 17 because there is no enforcement to move them up.
LOL True Dat !!!!!! Those three guys just do it for the fun LOL just ask them LOLOL
GuyB
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GuyB 8/15/2011 9:59am
8/15/2011 9:59am
希望 wrote:
is bobbyM coming back or has he decided not to mess with the forums anymore?
I'm sure Bobby will let me know when he can play well with others.
thatdad
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thatdad 8/15/2011 10:13am
8/15/2011 10:13am
danman wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty...
As far as I'm concerned, keep bumping riders until the gates are closer to full in all the classes. In D16, the A classes are pretty skinny at quite a few tracks.
MX558 wrote:
That district is one the worst offenders. I know guys that have been top 3 vet b riders for 10 years. I hear of 17 guys...
That district is one the worst offenders. I know guys that have been top 3 vet b riders for 10 years. I hear of 17 guys buying 16 b cards and racing in district 17 because there is no enforcement to move them up.
SlowOldGuy wrote:
AMA advancement is now done at the national level and has nothing to do with the district you race in.
Actually slow old guys son Matt's recent lorettas experience is the perfect example of why kids hide and sandbag. He is an ama 14 year old who, to put it bluntly, didn't ring bells schoolboy 2. Matt is a solid rider and more than capable of earning top five supermini finishes or maybe winning the 85 classes, but he manned up and rode a big bike. Recognition in this sport is "what can you do for me now." Even though Matt will move up the results in the years to come, there is much more recognition for a better result in an easier class.
peelout
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peelout 8/15/2011 10:29am
8/15/2011 10:29am
that peelout719 dude knows what the f*ck is up

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smoker
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smoker 8/15/2011 11:29am
8/15/2011 11:29am
peelout wrote:
that peelout719 dude knows what the f*ck is up
you two have a lot in common, never miss an opportunity to say, "I used to have a pro license", nice moves bro!

It's all good, I never was fast, nor will I ever be. I raced the washougal amateur national, rode D class, just didnt want to be last. The top 20 dudes in the D class were getting their scrub on and clearing everything on the track. I was hoping for more squids like me.
SlowOldGuy 8/15/2011 11:29am
8/15/2011 11:29am
thatdad wrote:
Actually slow old guys son Matt's recent lorettas experience is the perfect example of why kids hide and sandbag. He is an ama 14 year old...
Actually slow old guys son Matt's recent lorettas experience is the perfect example of why kids hide and sandbag. He is an ama 14 year old who, to put it bluntly, didn't ring bells schoolboy 2. Matt is a solid rider and more than capable of earning top five supermini finishes or maybe winning the 85 classes, but he manned up and rode a big bike. Recognition in this sport is "what can you do for me now." Even though Matt will move up the results in the years to come, there is much more recognition for a better result in an easier class.
Not sure why, but Matt struggled more than I expected him to at LLs this year. He had a huge get off on the start of moto 1 and I think it affected him all week. Anyway, back to the topic. Matt could have ridden another year on Supermini and even 85s although he has grown quite a bit in the last year. He decided he wanted to ride big bikes after the Mini Os last year. He was coming off of 6th and 7th in 85 stock and mod at LLs which is impressive, but doesn't have anyone calling you to give you bikes or help. We just decided to use this year as a learning year and so far it has worked out pretty good. I think there were only 4 kids his age in SB2 at LLs this year and three are full time trainers, so my expectations were to just come home healthy.

I think the current advancement system needs a few tweaks, but for the most part, works pretty well. I also think it is the right thing to do to get one year at every level. Matt will ride Schoolboy 1 and 2 next year (15 year old), B the following year (16 year old), turn a at 17 and see where it takes him.
mxtech1
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mxtech1 8/15/2011 11:30am
8/15/2011 11:30am
The AMA needs to take sand bagging and advancement more seriously. I would go to the extent to say they need to put someone in charge and make it their only responsibility to oversee advancement. The AMA runs their program by assigning districts heads and personel at the local level. They should take another step foward by creating positions at the district level where the job of that person is to attend local races - become familiar with the local riders and get to know them, attend local races every weekend where their only job is to sit and watch each class and review results. At that point, the person watching the district classes will begin to see which kids are out there waxing classes every weekend, or purposely DNF'ing at the end of a moto to reduce their year end point per race average to prevent them from bumping up. The only way they are going to see results is if they implement at the district level. With the proper riders where they should be locally, we would see better racing at the national amateur level because the qualifiers will be true to the speed the class should be running (not the top 3 to 5 riders walking away with wins because they won't move up locally.) All this is just hypothetical BS because it will probably never happen, but imho a system based around something like I just said would work a hell of a lot better than the free-for-all qualificition system used now.
peelout
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peelout 8/15/2011 11:48am
8/15/2011 11:48am
peelout wrote:
that peelout719 dude knows what the f*ck is up
smoker wrote:
you two have a lot in common, never miss an opportunity to say, "I used to have a pro license", nice moves bro! It's all good...
you two have a lot in common, never miss an opportunity to say, "I used to have a pro license", nice moves bro!

It's all good, I never was fast, nor will I ever be. I raced the washougal amateur national, rode D class, just didnt want to be last. The top 20 dudes in the D class were getting their scrub on and clearing everything on the track. I was hoping for more squids like me.
i spun a 360 on the face of the Chuck Sun table top one year racing the 80cc 12-15 class, it took me about 30 seconds to get to the top of the jump lol. the track was so snotty and slippery and we were the first moto. talk about miserable
smoker
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smoker 8/15/2011 11:53am
8/15/2011 11:53am
peelout wrote:
i spun a 360 on the face of the Chuck Sun table top one year racing the 80cc 12-15 class, it took me about 30 seconds...
i spun a 360 on the face of the Chuck Sun table top one year racing the 80cc 12-15 class, it took me about 30 seconds to get to the top of the jump lol. the track was so snotty and slippery and we were the first moto. talk about miserable
track is still slippery and snotty and they like to get their water on there, a little bit too much.

I did go snowmobiling in utah once, was following my buddy who was using a map, got us so fucking lost, we ended up ditching two sleds cause they ran out of gas, had 3 of us on my sled, ended up getting rescued by about 10 dudes a couple hours before we would've froze to death.
SlowOldGuy 8/15/2011 11:58am
8/15/2011 11:58am
mxtech1 wrote:
The AMA needs to take sand bagging and advancement more seriously. I would go to the extent to say they need to put someone in charge...
The AMA needs to take sand bagging and advancement more seriously. I would go to the extent to say they need to put someone in charge and make it their only responsibility to oversee advancement. The AMA runs their program by assigning districts heads and personel at the local level. They should take another step foward by creating positions at the district level where the job of that person is to attend local races - become familiar with the local riders and get to know them, attend local races every weekend where their only job is to sit and watch each class and review results. At that point, the person watching the district classes will begin to see which kids are out there waxing classes every weekend, or purposely DNF'ing at the end of a moto to reduce their year end point per race average to prevent them from bumping up. The only way they are going to see results is if they implement at the district level. With the proper riders where they should be locally, we would see better racing at the national amateur level because the qualifiers will be true to the speed the class should be running (not the top 3 to 5 riders walking away with wins because they won't move up locally.) All this is just hypothetical BS because it will probably never happen, but imho a system based around something like I just said would work a hell of a lot better than the free-for-all qualificition system used now.
Respectfully, I could not disagree more. Having advancement done at the local level is what got us in this mess in the first place. Having 30 different people making decisions for their local riders could not be more misguided. The current system, which has only been in place for three or four years, works. It isn't perfect and people will always be able to play they system, but for the most part, it works.

As far as DQing people for DNFing motos or riding slow in motos, that won't happen until we can prove 100% that there was nothing wrong with the bike or the rider and that will never happen. If a kid DNFs and says his bike was bogging, we as officials can't dispute that. If a kid rides slow to get 10th and says he riding slow because his wrist hurts, we can't dispute that.

While DNFing and riding slow are issues, the much bigger issues are avoiding AMA completely till the qualifiers. There is a kid who won at least two national titles on 85s and rode c class at LLs winning a title. The kid has been racing nationals forever, finishing in the top 5 or better, but never raced AMA. I think you will see non AMA nationals counting in a riders RPV in 2012.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 8/15/2011 12:16pm
8/15/2011 12:16pm
Actually, I'm stoked that a pro showed up at a local race at all. It used to happen all the time - here in Texas we raced against Wise, Stackable and Howerton every now and then, and in SoCal it wasn't unusual for Glover or one of those guys to show up at a local race. Now you never hear of it.

All you had to do was watch Bogle on Saturday to know that high level amateurs are really, really fast. And why wouldn't they be? They've effectively been pros for years...

Post a reply to: is this a joke or what?