350 vs 450

Yamaharider1474
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 2:53pm
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem to get the speed up like it does here in the US. plus our tracks seem to have more of a soft top soil and the 350 can't seem to pull the rider out and get him up to speed. No doubt that there are some sand tracks in Europe but at those places i see guys like Tony222 jumping and hopping his way thru the track instead of just plowing thru and using the bike to motor around the place. just my 2 bits.
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Shawn142
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Shawn142 7/7/2011 7:34am
7/7/2011 7:34am
I think it does well in Europe because KTM paid big bucks to hire the best guy in that series to race it. The best riders will win on anything within reason.
DPR250R
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DPR250R 7/7/2011 7:52am
7/7/2011 7:52am
Shawn142 wrote:
I think it does well in Europe because KTM paid big bucks to hire the best guy in that series to race it. The best riders...
I think it does well in Europe because KTM paid big bucks to hire the best guy in that series to race it. The best riders will win on anything within reason.
+1

I think Short is about where he would be on a 450.

1 Chad Reed
2 Ryan Villopoto
3 Ryan Dungey
4 Brett Metcalfe
5 David Millsaps
6 Kevin Windham
7 Andrew Short
8 Christian Craig
9 Mike Alessi
10 Jacob Weimer


Given the field this year he isn't doing to shabby.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 7/7/2011 7:55am
7/7/2011 7:55am
Shawn142 wrote:
I think it does well in Europe because KTM paid big bucks to hire the best guy in that series to race it. The best riders...
I think it does well in Europe because KTM paid big bucks to hire the best guy in that series to race it. The best riders will win on anything within reason.
DPR250R wrote:
+1 I think Short is about where he would be on a 450. 1 Chad Reed 2 Ryan Villopoto 3 Ryan Dungey 4 Brett Metcalfe 5...
+1

I think Short is about where he would be on a 450.

1 Chad Reed
2 Ryan Villopoto
3 Ryan Dungey
4 Brett Metcalfe
5 David Millsaps
6 Kevin Windham
7 Andrew Short
8 Christian Craig
9 Mike Alessi
10 Jacob Weimer


Given the field this year he isn't doing to shabby.
Looking at the point standings doesn't tell the whole story imo. On the Honda 450 Short got good starts and battled at the front. He was able to mix it up with Dungey at times. Now he's pretty much an afterthought.
gotwings
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gotwings 7/7/2011 7:58am
7/7/2011 7:58am
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy.
It's a built-in excuse to fail, or look like superman when you don't.

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burn1986
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burn1986 7/7/2011 8:05am
7/7/2011 8:05am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 8:05am
How do you know that, gotwings? There is no doubt that Short and Cairoli would do better with 450s. I could possible see the benefit of it on the rough European tracks, but Cairoli will fly on anything he rides.
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 8:11am
7/7/2011 8:11am
gotwings wrote:
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy. It's a built-in excuse...
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy.
It's a built-in excuse to fail, or look like superman when you don't.
Ummm, they have been tore down and checked by ProAMA, 350cc.
ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/7/2011 8:34am
7/7/2011 8:34am
I remember when RV got the holeshot on his 250f agaisnt a BUNCH of 450f pros. MXON 2007.

In some situations, less power gives you more speed because of traction.
The 350 might just work better for some in SOME situation, but not most.
Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 7/7/2011 8:37am
7/7/2011 8:37am
Shawn142 wrote:
I think it does well in Europe because KTM paid big bucks to hire the best guy in that series to race it. The best riders...
I think it does well in Europe because KTM paid big bucks to hire the best guy in that series to race it. The best riders will win on anything within reason.
Well said sir!
ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/7/2011 8:38am
7/7/2011 8:38am
OH, and RC was in that race on a 450, lol

lucero10x
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lucero10x 7/7/2011 8:47am
7/7/2011 8:47am
gotwings wrote:
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy. It's a built-in excuse...
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy.
It's a built-in excuse to fail, or look like superman when you don't.
what is your fuckin deal, bro?
ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/7/2011 8:49am
7/7/2011 8:49am
gotwings wrote:
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy. It's a built-in excuse...
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy.
It's a built-in excuse to fail, or look like superman when you don't.
lucero10x wrote:
what is your fuckin deal, bro?
I bet he watches and believes FOX News too.
Motocross83 7/7/2011 8:59am
7/7/2011 8:59am
Yamaharider1474 wrote:
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem...
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem to get the speed up like it does here in the US. plus our tracks seem to have more of a soft top soil and the 350 can't seem to pull the rider out and get him up to speed. No doubt that there are some sand tracks in Europe but at those places i see guys like Tony222 jumping and hopping his way thru the track instead of just plowing thru and using the bike to motor around the place. just my 2 bits.
I agree with this.
MX Sports Medicine 7/7/2011 9:03am
7/7/2011 9:03am
gotwings wrote:
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy. It's a built-in excuse...
Stop calling them 350's. Short's bike is a 390, and the euro ones are probably bigger. 350 is just a marketing ploy.
It's a built-in excuse to fail, or look like superman when you don't.
lucero10x wrote:
what is your fuckin deal, bro?
ccoady454 wrote:
I bet he watches and believes FOX News too.
Where do people get this $hit they spooge out?

And I too bet he watches AND believes fox news!!
kongols
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kongols 7/7/2011 9:09am
7/7/2011 9:09am
burn1986 wrote:
How do you know that, gotwings? There is no doubt that Short and Cairoli would do better with 450s. I could possible see the benefit of...
How do you know that, gotwings? There is no doubt that Short and Cairoli would do better with 450s. I could possible see the benefit of it on the rough European tracks, but Cairoli will fly on anything he rides.
Cairoli`s Yamaha was around 400cc`s. He thought 450 is too much.
matrixlee
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matrixlee 7/7/2011 9:28am
7/7/2011 9:28am
burn1986 wrote:
How do you know that, gotwings? There is no doubt that Short and Cairoli would do better with 450s. I could possible see the benefit of...
How do you know that, gotwings? There is no doubt that Short and Cairoli would do better with 450s. I could possible see the benefit of it on the rough European tracks, but Cairoli will fly on anything he rides.
carioli old yam was a 390 by all accounts he had it tamed down did not like all the power
matrixlee
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matrixlee 7/7/2011 9:28am
7/7/2011 9:28am
burn1986 wrote:
How do you know that, gotwings? There is no doubt that Short and Cairoli would do better with 450s. I could possible see the benefit of...
How do you know that, gotwings? There is no doubt that Short and Cairoli would do better with 450s. I could possible see the benefit of it on the rough European tracks, but Cairoli will fly on anything he rides.
kongols wrote:
Cairoli`s Yamaha was around 400cc`s. He thought 450 is too much.
just seen your post
TFS
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TFS 7/7/2011 9:41am
7/7/2011 9:41am
350s will never happen.

Smile
skidsteer16
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skidsteer16 7/7/2011 9:48am
7/7/2011 9:48am
TFS wrote:
350s will never happen.

Smile
Correct.

DRZ400's are the future...

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TFS
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TFS 7/7/2011 10:03am
7/7/2011 10:03am
Good one!
mccread
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mccread 7/7/2011 10:13am
7/7/2011 10:13am
Yamaharider1474 wrote:
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem...
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem to get the speed up like it does here in the US. plus our tracks seem to have more of a soft top soil and the 350 can't seem to pull the rider out and get him up to speed. No doubt that there are some sand tracks in Europe but at those places i see guys like Tony222 jumping and hopping his way thru the track instead of just plowing thru and using the bike to motor around the place. just my 2 bits.
Motocross83 wrote:
I agree with this.
Me too! I still think Tony would be up with the big three on th 350 though... he was the same speed as Dungey in Colorado
BobbyM
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BobbyM 7/7/2011 10:26am
7/7/2011 10:26am
Yamaharider1474 wrote:
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem...
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem to get the speed up like it does here in the US. plus our tracks seem to have more of a soft top soil and the 350 can't seem to pull the rider out and get him up to speed. No doubt that there are some sand tracks in Europe but at those places i see guys like Tony222 jumping and hopping his way thru the track instead of just plowing thru and using the bike to motor around the place. just my 2 bits.
apples to oranges...nuff said. and it isn't a 350 in europe
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/7/2011 2:56pm
7/7/2011 2:56pm
TFS wrote:
350s will never happen.

Smile
skidsteer16 wrote:
Correct. DRZ400's are the future... [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/lumpy790/396490-tfsleap800.jpg[/img]
Correct.

DRZ400's are the future...

That's a SuperMo 400...WTF?
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/7/2011 2:58pm
7/7/2011 2:58pm
Yamaharider1474 wrote:
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem...
The reason i think that 350 does better in the GP's is the style of tracks they have most are crazy rough and they don't seem to get the speed up like it does here in the US. plus our tracks seem to have more of a soft top soil and the 350 can't seem to pull the rider out and get him up to speed. No doubt that there are some sand tracks in Europe but at those places i see guys like Tony222 jumping and hopping his way thru the track instead of just plowing thru and using the bike to motor around the place. just my 2 bits.
BobbyM wrote:
apples to oranges...nuff said. and it isn't a 350 in europe
Bobby, are you goin' public with the 408?

Are you sure ya wanna "Step in that"?

Uh,...never-mind.
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 3:18pm
7/7/2011 3:18pm
TFS wrote:
350s will never happen.

Smile
skidsteer16 wrote:
Correct. DRZ400's are the future... [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/lumpy790/396490-tfsleap800.jpg[/img]
Correct.

DRZ400's are the future...

TeamGreen wrote:
That's a SuperMo 400...WTF?
No, Not WTF, It's TFS. LOL
motoarmageddon 7/7/2011 3:24pm
7/7/2011 3:24pm
who says the 350 is doing that well in Eurpoe now? Cairoli isnt dominating at all like last year. I think that 350 was built for Cairoli. he is small and likes 250f's. If you are a dude who hates 450s (in other words you suck on a 450) then a 350 might be good. but if you are like 99% of MXers, then a 450 is God's gift to fast lap times.
The Universe
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The Universe 7/7/2011 3:59pm
7/7/2011 3:59pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Ummm, they have been tore down and checked by ProAMA, 350cc.
You're allowed to bore an engine out to 450cc's for MX, but not for SX (as long as it's the stock cylinder)

The 350 has a stock stroke of 57.5mm. Here are the cc's of various bores:

88mm (stock): 349.7
90mm (1mm bore job): 365.8
92mm (2mm bore job): 382.2
94mm (3mm bore job): 399.0

Most bike cylinders these days can handle a 1mm bore job. I'm not sure of the sleeve thickness on a 350 so I have no idea how far you can take it... However, when Yamaha introduced the "YZ400F" they had some extra room on the cylinder to bore it out much closer to the AMA limit. I'm not sure if this was planned or not. I hope KTM had the foresight to leave a little extra room between the cylinder and the water jacket to allow for a little overbore.

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