2-Stroke Reality Dose

ccoady454 wrote:

The amateur rules weren't changed until after the manufacturers already STOPPED making or halted development on two strokes, so I would say the cards were pretty...

The amateur rules weren't changed until after the manufacturers already STOPPED making or halted development on two strokes, so I would say the cards were pretty well stacked in favor of the 4 strokes already. Of course people spoke with their pocket books. They mostly want what the racers they idolize ride, or what bike, regardless of the rider, was piloted in the championship that year. Also, they take on misleading information the media bombarded them with. It's pretty simple to fool the naive when the cards are stacked in your favor and continuing to do so is what marketing dollars are currently being spent on.

So NOW you can run cc for cc, but 2 strokes are limited in availability, and if a rider gets to the point where they aspire to go pro OR are good enough to go pro, they are at a severs disadvantage on a 2 stroke and will never get factory support until they switch to a 4 stroke, which rides completely different and would likely ruin that rider.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

I dumped my four stroke weed eater last weekend for a two stroke Hitachi. Smells great with Klotz Benol. A lot lighter and easier to whip...

I dumped my four stroke weed eater last weekend for a two stroke Hitachi. Smells great with Klotz Benol. A lot lighter and easier to whip around, too.

miedosoracing1 wrote:

Just too easy. You posted exactly of what we make fun of. The 4 stroke guys talk about how great the 4 strokes are, and sit...

Just too easy. You posted exactly of what we make fun of. The 4 stroke guys talk about how great the 4 strokes are, and sit there and try to explain how they are better and faster, ignoring the obvious that 2 strokes per cc kick the living shit out of 4 strokes. They are lighter, and less maintence at the same cc. It's a FACT that the only reason 4 strokes even exist in MX today because of the cc limit was lifted. So your reference to idiots in the car side, posting dumb reasons why the stick is faster, matches exactly with the nitwits that say a 4 stroke is better. LMFAO. Oh by the way, I got an email that said I made you look stupid so you went personal. Bingo.

WORCSRacer wrote:

Was the email from the same guy who told you to watch out for the OEM's...

miedosoracing1 wrote:

The person who sent me that message and a virus along with it, that almost put my computer under, was Spinner. No, this person that emailed...

The person who sent me that message and a virus along with it, that almost put my computer under, was Spinner. No, this person that emailed me today is a friend.
Again, per your rant, What year did your WORCS stuff change to cc vs cc?

miedosoracing1 wrote:

The person who sent me that message and a virus along with it, that almost put my computer under, was Spinner. No, this person that emailed...

The person who sent me that message and a virus along with it, that almost put my computer under, was Spinner. No, this person that emailed me today is a friend.
Again, per your rant, What year did your WORCS stuff change to cc vs cc?

WORCSRacer wrote:

WORCS has always been straight up. We believe the rider wins races not the bikes.

miedosoracing1 wrote:

Really, so before the AMA dropped the Crosscountry or grand prix in the rulebook, you were already going against the AMA rules of 250 vs 125...

Really, so before the AMA dropped the Crosscountry or grand prix in the rulebook, you were already going against the AMA rules of 250 vs 125 and 450 vs 250? Even though you used them as a sanctioning body until then?
By the way, this page lists you as sanctioning body. Go check the cc classes for 125 and 250. 500 has been added, but still lists 125 vs 250F. http://www.taftracing.com/rules.php

miedosoracing1 wrote:

Really, so before the AMA dropped the Crosscountry or grand prix in the rulebook, you were already going against the AMA rules of 250 vs 125...

Really, so before the AMA dropped the Crosscountry or grand prix in the rulebook, you were already going against the AMA rules of 250 vs 125 and 450 vs 250? Even though you used them as a sanctioning body until then?
By the way, this page lists you as sanctioning body. Go check the cc classes for 125 and 250. 500 has been added, but still lists 125 vs 250F. http://www.taftracing.com/rules.php

WORCSRacer wrote:

So in summary, You let the 20 people who test and write about motocross bikes in the press dictate to you what to buy... You let...

So in summary,

You let the 20 people who test and write about motocross bikes in the press dictate to you what to buy...

You let the 200 AMA pros in this country dictate to you what to buy...

and you have to ride a four stroke or you won't be able to become one of the 30 riders in the entire USA that make a living riding dirtbikes dictate to you what to buy...

Got it, it makes perfect sense now.

WORCSRacer wrote:

Look under displacement...


WORCS Rules

miedosoracing1 wrote:

By the way, you may wanna check in what year you were dropped from AMA. The post was made in Feb 2008, so I think your...

By the way, you may wanna check in what year you were dropped from AMA. The post was made in Feb 2008, so I think your years are off there alittle bud. http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/GNCC-WORCS-Endurocross,40/AMA-Offroad-Rul…

miedosoracing1 wrote:

By the way, you may wanna check in what year you were dropped from AMA. The post was made in Feb 2008, so I think your...

By the way, you may wanna check in what year you were dropped from AMA. The post was made in Feb 2008, so I think your years are off there alittle bud. http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/GNCC-WORCS-Endurocross,40/AMA-Offroad-Rul…

WORCSRacer wrote:

2009 was the only year. Try again.

miedosoracing1 wrote:

Really, so before the AMA dropped the Crosscountry or grand prix in the rulebook, you were already going against the AMA rules of 250 vs 125...

Really, so before the AMA dropped the Crosscountry or grand prix in the rulebook, you were already going against the AMA rules of 250 vs 125 and 450 vs 250? Even though you used them as a sanctioning body until then?
By the way, this page lists you as sanctioning body. Go check the cc classes for 125 and 250. 500 has been added, but still lists 125 vs 250F. http://www.taftracing.com/rules.php

WORCSRacer wrote:

You're truly an idiot. Taft Racing? Really?

WORCSRacer wrote:

Pretty sure I know the WORCS rules better than you do and I'm pretty sure I know when the association with the AMA was... Hey are...

Pretty sure I know the WORCS rules better than you do and I'm pretty sure I know when the association with the AMA was...

Hey are you still looking for a sanctioning body for ProNMX?

Try here...

FreshTopEnd wrote:

I dumped my four stroke weed eater last weekend for a two stroke Hitachi. Smells great with Klotz Benol. A lot lighter and easier to whip...

I dumped my four stroke weed eater last weekend for a two stroke Hitachi. Smells great with Klotz Benol. A lot lighter and easier to whip around, too.

jndmx wrote:

Yeah but you will never get the weeds off the gate as well as you can with the 4-stroke.....not to mention the inside corner speed near...

Yeah but you will never get the weeds off the gate as well as you can with the 4-stroke.....not to mention the inside corner speed near your walkways.

WORCSRacer wrote:

What I get tired of is the two strokers acting like that if not for the displacement advantage two strokes would rule the world. Fact is...

What I get tired of is the two strokers acting like that if not for the displacement advantage two strokes would rule the world. Fact is in 99% of the MX and XC racing in the USA you can run straight up 2 v 4 and people have chosen to run four strokes. They spoke with their pocket books. Now that money is tight they are looking to lower their costs and two strokes are gaining favor again. I have no doubt two strokes are going to be around in 5 years and Yamaha won't be the only Japanese OEM with them. Just don't expect them to be FI and have a massive updates beyond cosmetics.

As far as competitive machinery goes I believe its the rider not the bike that wins races and people have a really tough time with that. There is no reason why you can't take a seven to ten year old two stroke and win at 99% of the racing going on in the US. What this industry needs more than anything else is 5K 125/150cc bikes that NORMAL people can buy and race.

Further I say DC and MX Sports ought to dump the WMA and run a east/west with a single national championship race for 125/150 class in its place. and not have it be a class for only juniors either. Personally I would love to see guys like Brown, Dowd, Bradshaw ect... be able to race again regionally. Just think you could run the series for the price of two PC 250F motors...

FreshTopEnd wrote:

I dumped my four stroke weed eater last weekend for a two stroke Hitachi. Smells great with Klotz Benol. A lot lighter and easier to whip...

I dumped my four stroke weed eater last weekend for a two stroke Hitachi. Smells great with Klotz Benol. A lot lighter and easier to whip around, too.

jndmx wrote:

Yeah but you will never get the weeds off the gate as well as you can with the 4-stroke.....not to mention the inside corner speed near...

Yeah but you will never get the weeds off the gate as well as you can with the 4-stroke.....not to mention the inside corner speed near your walkways.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

It sure starts easier though.

tns wrote:

whats the point in arguing about it 10 years time we will all be riding high reving desiel

tns wrote:

whats the point in arguing about it 10 years time we will all be riding high reving desiel

race wrote:

I thought we were going electric? And let me say ... after shelling out $$ for a jug of race gas .... electric might not be...

I thought we were going electric?

And let me say ... after shelling out $$ for a jug of race gas .... electric might not be a bad thing.

You know, these little 2 vs 4 threads wouldn't drag on forever if people stopped posting bullshite to support their side. It was a series of events and circumstances that has brought about the demise of two-strokes .... and a series of events and circumstances that is still keeping them down, even though there are indications that they are making somewhat of a small comeback at the local level. Trying to just single out one cause or factor shows that people still don't get the entire picture. I've yet to see anyone post the full story and get it right.

One example - trying to claim that the rules allow amateurs to race either type and that riders aren't flocking to buy smokers ignores a vicious circle of factors:

- There is not much choice of smokers to choose from
- Of the two big OEMs that still offer them, Yamaha has not made much in the way of updates for 6 or so years.
- Often the local distributor is immediately sold out.
- The largest racing segment is probably the Vet and above class these days .... and it is tough to battle a full gate of 450s on your 250 smoker. It can certainly be done but often depends on the track and conditions.

The damage has been done and it will probably take some OEM effort to get the two-strokes back in the game.

Or a technology shift might do it. Wasn't Jody recently talking about a new two-stroke design that could shake things up -

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/ALLNEW-TWOSTROKE-ENGINE-THE-FOR…

gotwings wrote:

I got your "Reality Dose" right here: I guess you don't see the writing on the wall, guys. Two strokes are being phased out, four strokes...

I got your "Reality Dose" right here:

I guess you don't see the writing on the wall, guys. Two strokes are being phased out, four strokes are replacing them. The type of engine in these things is a moot point, the top 20 450 guys could jump on a 250f or a 125t and still qualify for a AMA Outdoor 450 National. Same thing that happened with MotoGp, same thing that happened when jet engines took over from piston-engined prop planes. "That'll never fly, it's too heavy and complicated! Look at all the parts it has!"

Get over it, it's a done deal, no sense crying about it, move on, just be glad we still have bikes to ride and racing to watch.

Oh yeah,here's one to put the "four strokes get a HUGE capacity advantage, that's why they beat two-strokes" arguement: Look at the lap times from the top half of the 250f field in ANY race weekend where guys on 250t's qualified in the 450 class.
You'll find the average and fastest lap times are ALWAYS better for the 250f's.
C.c. for c.c., heads up. Now wadda ya gotta say???

WELL?