2-Stroke Reality Dose

miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 8:23am
7/6/2011 8:23am
burn1986 wrote:
Well, it may not have changed yet, but there is 4480 people that I know of so far that want to see a change. I have...
Well, it may not have changed yet, but there is 4480 people that I know of so far that want to see a change. I have asked MXA (and just about every other mag) time and time again to do a full 250 shootout to at least include a 2-stroke over 125cc to no avail. To say that MXA is not influenced by the OEMs is completely absurd and foolhearted. Dear Lord.
jmar wrote:
Honest question here.

Out of those 4480 people that signed this. How many of them have bought a new two stroke in the last five years?
Jmar you make me laugh, really. You know for a fact that 2 strokes, while somewhat available, had 0 push from dealers and magazines alike. When there is equal push and fair rules, please please come back and tell me how many bought new 4 strokes...

Burn, whenever you ask that question, it goes dark. So I guess I'll give the answer, that no one else will say from magazines. What would it look like, if every magazine in production for MX has the KTM 250SX win the 250cc shootout, and a Husky 300 CR or something like that, win the Open shootout. Then everyone who read those magazines, goes to the supercross or outdoor mx and sees only 4 strokes racing. They will start to wonder WTF, just like we are right now. We all know the answer, but I'm just tired of hearing people praise these guys talk out of both sides of their mouths.
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 8:23am
7/6/2011 8:23am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 8:25am
WORCSRacer wrote:
How many people need a "modded" 450? Now if by needing you mean so you can impress your buddys in the pits while you stand around...
How many people need a "modded" 450? Now if by needing you mean so you can impress your buddys in the pits while you stand around talking about how badass you are (instead of actually riding) and how the 450 just wasn't enough for you...


Hey BTW how is your new race series coming along? Jackass.
Really? I never stated "need" Jackass. How many stock piped Fucking 450F's vs modded, are in the pits every weekend. Spring and map switch, vs 4 stroke exhausts. STFU. Oh wait, before you STFU, I'll ask again, 4th time.
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 8:25am
7/6/2011 8:25am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Jmar you make me laugh, really. You know for a fact that 2 strokes, while somewhat available, had 0 push from dealers and magazines alike. When...
Jmar you make me laugh, really. You know for a fact that 2 strokes, while somewhat available, had 0 push from dealers and magazines alike. When there is equal push and fair rules, please please come back and tell me how many bought new 4 strokes...

Burn, whenever you ask that question, it goes dark. So I guess I'll give the answer, that no one else will say from magazines. What would it look like, if every magazine in production for MX has the KTM 250SX win the 250cc shootout, and a Husky 300 CR or something like that, win the Open shootout. Then everyone who read those magazines, goes to the supercross or outdoor mx and sees only 4 strokes racing. They will start to wonder WTF, just like we are right now. We all know the answer, but I'm just tired of hearing people praise these guys talk out of both sides of their mouths.
Hey you should start your own magazine! Call it ProNMX and you can push your own agenda and not have to worry about the OEM filter...
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 8:29am
7/6/2011 8:29am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 8:38am
WORCSRacer wrote:
Hey you should start your own magazine! Call it ProNMX and you can push your own agenda and not have to worry about the OEM filter...
Oh, wait, so you are saying now that OEM are the reason. Dumbass, go back and read what you wrote before.
I'll help you out there, since you seem to be having problems figuring all this shit out.
and just an fyi...

Dirtbike and MXA don't have to color their opinions on reviews of Japanese OEM offerings because they are fearful they will pull their ads. The OEMS for all intent and purpose don't place ads in their books.

and that's why you get their opinion about the bikes they test instead of a PR.

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Kryan5
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Kryan5 7/6/2011 8:39am
7/6/2011 8:39am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 8:40am
jmar wrote:
[b]2-Stroke Reality Dose[/b] What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW"...
2-Stroke Reality Dose

What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW" two stroke.
If you want them available, then make sure that there is a market for them.

Some of you are your own worse enemy.
burn1986 wrote:
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is...
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is that your only arguement to this thread and any thread concerning the current state of 2-strokes? New 2-strokes sales are as good as they ever have been and even if they were better than 4-strokes, the OEMs wouldn't make more of them. We have gone over and over this.

Who are you now, the AMA champion? Have you read the article or are you just bored at work too.
jmar wrote:
The only stupid thing with this whole thread, is that some of you think that the OEMs should be forced to make what a small minority...
The only stupid thing with this whole thread, is that some of you think that the OEMs should be forced to make what a small minority of the buying public wants. Another silly thing about this subject is that this AMA rule affects very few local organizations, so in short, so it has to be some what market driven, considering that there are not a large number of AMA pro racers, and a decent number of these riders don't even buy their bikes.

Bottom line. Things change, things progress. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. At least those of you that don't like this progression have a choice. And that choice will be there as long as the demand is there.
Small minority? I would agree with that a year or 2 ago. Not sure what its like where you live, but the amount of 2 strokes i see now at the tracks makes me step back and think. Used to be just a handful. Now i see a lot of them at practice tracks and racedays and usually 1 or 2 in the top three in the 250 class. Not only that, but i see 4 stoke riders picking them up as well. And to your next comment about how many have bought a new 2 stroke. Kind of hard to do when you either have to go to KTM or support a manufacture that keeps raising the price on there "05" model for bold new graphics and a brake change(although i do give them kudos for making them still). I can guarantee you this if say kaw or zook made a new 2 stroke it would sell fast and quick and i would be the first in line. I would love to replace my beat kx, but don't have many options and bet a lot of other feel the same way.
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burn1986 7/6/2011 8:57am
7/6/2011 8:57am
Kryan, you're talking to a wall.

Jmar has this crystalized fantasy that if 4480 persons went out and bought new 2-strokes then all of the sudden the OEMs would step back and say, "hey, these people like 2-strokes, so let's just make a whole bunch more." And then the AMA and the OEMs would welcome 2-strokes back with open arms, then we could all stop whining.

Man, I'm laughing even as I write this.
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 9:01am
7/6/2011 9:01am
burn1986 wrote:
Kryan, you're talking to a wall. Jmar has this crystalized fantasy that if 4480 persons went out and bought new 2-strokes then all of the sudden...
Kryan, you're talking to a wall.

Jmar has this crystalized fantasy that if 4480 persons went out and bought new 2-strokes then all of the sudden the OEMs would step back and say, "hey, these people like 2-strokes, so let's just make a whole bunch more." And then the AMA and the OEMs would welcome 2-strokes back with open arms, then we could all stop whining.

Man, I'm laughing even as I write this.
Don't mention the fact that EVERY 2 stroke sold out last year, so many couldn't buy them...
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bwh998 7/6/2011 9:21am
7/6/2011 9:21am
burn1986 wrote:
Well, it may not have changed yet, but there is 4480 people that I know of so far that want to see a change. I have...
Well, it may not have changed yet, but there is 4480 people that I know of so far that want to see a change. I have asked MXA (and just about every other mag) time and time again to do a full 250 shootout to at least include a 2-stroke over 125cc to no avail. To say that MXA is not influenced by the OEMs is completely absurd and foolhearted. Dear Lord.
jmar wrote:
Honest question here.

Out of those 4480 people that signed this. How many of them have bought a new two stroke in the last five years?
Oh, you mean all of those new 2 stroke models that the big four have introduced in the last five years? KTM's smokers seem to be selling rather well while dealers are still trying to get rid of brand new 2007 model crf450's.

I wonder how many 2007 ktm or yz 2 strokes are wasting away on ebay waiting for someone to scoop them up at a discounted price?
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nytsmaC 7/6/2011 9:25am
7/6/2011 9:25am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 9:26am
I like my 2-strokes, but damn it's embarrassing to get lumped in with some of you kooks. Just STFU already. Same shit in every thread and it gets dumber each time. Stop trying to convince everyone that they must see it your way.

Put 2-stroke in the title of ANY thread and the same clowns show up to lead the parade.
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jndmx 7/6/2011 9:30am
7/6/2011 9:30am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Don't mention the fact that EVERY 2 stroke sold out last year, so many couldn't buy them...
Don't mention the fact that they stocked vastly fewer two-stroke than four-strokes which would explain why EVERY one sold out.

Our dealer sold out of his stock of YZ250's by mid-season last year because they only took 4 into stock.

I love the smokers too but you're comparing apples to oranges with that argument.
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Kryan5 7/6/2011 9:33am
7/6/2011 9:33am
nytsmaC wrote:
I like my 2-strokes, but damn it's embarrassing to get lumped in with some of you kooks. Just STFU already. Same shit in every thread and...
I like my 2-strokes, but damn it's embarrassing to get lumped in with some of you kooks. Just STFU already. Same shit in every thread and it gets dumber each time. Stop trying to convince everyone that they must see it your way.

Put 2-stroke in the title of ANY thread and the same clowns show up to lead the parade.
Is that just your .02 cents in the clown topic? Clown! Sorry something came up that interests some of us and there is a discussion in a discussion forum.
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bwh998 7/6/2011 9:36am
7/6/2011 9:36am
nytsmaC wrote:
I like my 2-strokes, but damn it's embarrassing to get lumped in with some of you kooks. Just STFU already. Same shit in every thread and...
I like my 2-strokes, but damn it's embarrassing to get lumped in with some of you kooks. Just STFU already. Same shit in every thread and it gets dumber each time. Stop trying to convince everyone that they must see it your way.

Put 2-stroke in the title of ANY thread and the same clowns show up to lead the parade.
You ever heard of "closing the thread?"

Perhaps even going outside?

With almost 1200 posts in 3 years I would guess not.
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Fearo 7/6/2011 9:38am
7/6/2011 9:38am
Fearo wrote:
I wonder of there's any truth to this part: Imagine that I told you that a motorcycle manufacturer was working on a revolutionary engine design for...
I wonder of there's any truth to this part:

Imagine that I told you that a motorcycle manufacturer was working on a revolutionary engine design for 2013 that was eight pounds lighter, revved quicker, produced ten more horsepower (per quarter liter), had one-tenth the moving parts, was cheap to produce, cost less to maintain and could be rebuilt for a quarter of the price of your four-stroke? Would you be interested?

If so, he's obviously talking about ktm, and according to his statement, a KTM 150 would go up roughly 5 HP :O, wow.
ccoady454 wrote:
Quarter liter......250cc 2st vs 250f
He says 10hp per quarter liter... So roughly 5 hp for a 150 Wink .
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ccoady454 7/6/2011 9:44am
7/6/2011 9:44am
Fearo wrote:
He says 10hp per quarter liter... So roughly 5 hp for a 150 Wink .
What are the HP figures for a Honda CR150f vs a KTM 150SX?

Anyone got these?
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2011 9:46am
7/6/2011 9:46am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Don't mention the fact that EVERY 2 stroke sold out last year, so many couldn't buy them...
jndmx wrote:
Don't mention the fact that they stocked vastly fewer two-stroke than four-strokes which would explain why EVERY one sold out. Our dealer sold out of his...
Don't mention the fact that they stocked vastly fewer two-stroke than four-strokes which would explain why EVERY one sold out.

Our dealer sold out of his stock of YZ250's by mid-season last year because they only took 4 into stock.

I love the smokers too but you're comparing apples to oranges with that argument.
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want to ride, and he still get's shit from these guys.

Like I said, you are either against them or for them. There is no logic, no middle ground.
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gotwings 7/6/2011 9:46am
7/6/2011 9:46am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 9:48am
I got your "Reality Dose" right here:

I guess you don't see the writing on the wall, guys. Two strokes are being phased out, four strokes are replacing them. The type of engine in these things is a moot point, the top 20 450 guys could jump on a 250f or a 125t and still qualify for a AMA Outdoor 450 National. Same thing that happened with MotoGp, same thing that happened when jet engines took over from piston-engined prop planes. "That'll never fly, it's too heavy and complicated! Look at all the parts it has!"

Get over it, it's a done deal, no sense crying about it, move on, just be glad we still have bikes to ride and racing to watch.

Oh yeah,here's one to put the "four strokes get a HUGE capacity advantage, that's why they beat two-strokes" arguement: Look at the lap times from the top half of the 250f field in ANY race weekend where guys on 250t's qualified in the 450 class.
You'll find the average and fastest lap times are ALWAYS better for the 250f's.
C.c. for c.c., heads up. Now wadda ya gotta say???
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 9:47am
7/6/2011 9:47am
nytsmaC wrote:
I like my 2-strokes, but damn it's embarrassing to get lumped in with some of you kooks. Just STFU already. Same shit in every thread and...
I like my 2-strokes, but damn it's embarrassing to get lumped in with some of you kooks. Just STFU already. Same shit in every thread and it gets dumber each time. Stop trying to convince everyone that they must see it your way.

Put 2-stroke in the title of ANY thread and the same clowns show up to lead the parade.
Kryan5 wrote:
Is that just your .02 cents in the clown topic? Clown! Sorry something came up that interests some of us and there is a [u]discussion[/u] in...
Is that just your .02 cents in the clown topic? Clown! Sorry something came up that interests some of us and there is a discussion in a discussion forum.
It is not the same 4 stroke sided guys on the other side in each 2 stroke thread, that flames this argument every week. Nope. Like I've said before, it takes them to make these threads gems. If not for them, it would wither and die each time. It's not that they say the same dumb shit that we have to over and over again debunk. nope.
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 9:47am
7/6/2011 9:47am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Oh, wait, so you are saying now that OEM are the reason. Dumbass, go back and read what you wrote before. I'll help you out there...
Oh, wait, so you are saying now that OEM are the reason. Dumbass, go back and read what you wrote before.
I'll help you out there, since you seem to be having problems figuring all this shit out.
and just an fyi...

Dirtbike and MXA don't have to color their opinions on reviews of Japanese OEM offerings because they are fearful they will pull their ads. The OEMS for all intent and purpose don't place ads in their books.

and that's why you get their opinion about the bikes they test instead of a PR.
Actually what I am suggesting, and you are proving, is that you are too stupid to insult.


When is your first ProNMX event?

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queen of spodes 7/6/2011 9:50am
7/6/2011 9:50am
hellion wrote:
Jody's the only one brave enough to call a spade a spade. He know four strokes are fun and admits to racing them often. He just...
Jody's the only one brave enough to call a spade a spade. He know four strokes are fun and admits to racing them often. He just wants the rules to be fair so that a two stroke can compete. He thinks if the rules were different most would switch back to two strokes, I think he's right.
He's a fraud. Until his rag begins testing two and four stroke 250s in the 250 shootouts he is blowing hot air. Amateurs pick between 2 or 4 stroke in the 250 classes.. same with woods guys. The only racing that disallows is in professional SX/MX. Pretty sure the mags don't live off of 100 or so pro sx riders.
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 9:55am
7/6/2011 9:55am
jmar wrote:
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want...
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want to ride, and he still get's shit from these guys.

Like I said, you are either against them or for them. There is no logic, no middle ground.
Its like trying to discuss whether a stick or paddle shift auto is faster with a bunch of car guys.. or politics with bonepony
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Kryan5 7/6/2011 10:04am
7/6/2011 10:04am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 10:19am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Don't mention the fact that EVERY 2 stroke sold out last year, so many couldn't buy them...
jndmx wrote:
Don't mention the fact that they stocked vastly fewer two-stroke than four-strokes which would explain why EVERY one sold out. Our dealer sold out of his...
Don't mention the fact that they stocked vastly fewer two-stroke than four-strokes which would explain why EVERY one sold out.

Our dealer sold out of his stock of YZ250's by mid-season last year because they only took 4 into stock.

I love the smokers too but you're comparing apples to oranges with that argument.
jmar wrote:
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want...
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want to ride, and he still get's shit from these guys.

Like I said, you are either against them or for them. There is no logic, no middle ground.
It obvious i prefer 2 strokes. I don't try and push them on anyone. They are just more enjoyable to ride for me regardless of cost and price yadda yadda, cuz lord knows i put a boat load of money in my bike and would do so no matter what it was. I just wish i had more choices and they weren't "a dieing breed". Hey a guy can dream can't he. What i think is pointless is a bunch of guys commenting in a thread that they claim they could give two shits about and starting crap. If its a thread about 2 strokes then so what, let it be a thread about to strokes.....
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 10:11am
7/6/2011 10:11am
jmar wrote:
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want...
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want to ride, and he still get's shit from these guys.

Like I said, you are either against them or for them. There is no logic, no middle ground.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Its like trying to discuss whether a stick or paddle shift auto is faster with a bunch of car guys.. or politics with bonepony
Just too easy. You posted exactly of what we make fun of. The 4 stroke guys talk about how great the 4 strokes are, and sit there and try to explain how they are better and faster, ignoring the obvious that 2 strokes per cc kick the living shit out of 4 strokes. They are lighter, and less maintence at the same cc. It's a FACT that the only reason 4 strokes even exist in MX today because of the cc limit was lifted. So your reference to idiots in the car side, posting dumb reasons why the stick is faster, matches exactly with the nitwits that say a 4 stroke is better. LMFAO. Oh by the way, I got an email that said I made you look stupid so you went personal. Bingo.
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burn1986 7/6/2011 10:17am
7/6/2011 10:17am
jmar wrote:
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want...
No room for logic in a two stroke taliban thread. Guy's like nytsmaC just put their money where their mouth is and buy what they want to ride, and he still get's shit from these guys.

Like I said, you are either against them or for them. There is no logic, no middle ground.
Okay, jmar, explain your reason about everyone buying a new 2-stroke, and what you mean.
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CamP 7/6/2011 10:23am
7/6/2011 10:23am
The worst thing about 4-strokes is they cost 25% more to build and sell. With the economy in the tank, the four stroke revolution couldn't have come at a worse time. People have less money to spend and the additional cost for new bikes directly translates into fewer new bike sales, which means less people lining up to race and ultimately, a shrinking sport. The OEM's sold 200,000 competition dirt bike units 15 years ago and they sold less than 50,000 last year. A 50% increase in the mrsp translates into a 80% decrease in unit sales. The four strokes are great bikes but this is a blue collar sport and for it to thrive, the bikes must be less expensive.
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reded 7/6/2011 10:26am
7/6/2011 10:26am
CamP wrote:
The worst thing about 4-strokes is they cost 25% more to build and sell. With the economy in the tank, the four stroke revolution couldn't have...
The worst thing about 4-strokes is they cost 25% more to build and sell. With the economy in the tank, the four stroke revolution couldn't have come at a worse time. People have less money to spend and the additional cost for new bikes directly translates into fewer new bike sales, which means less people lining up to race and ultimately, a shrinking sport. The OEM's sold 200,000 competition dirt bike units 15 years ago and they sold less than 50,000 last year. A 50% increase in the mrsp translates into a 80% decrease in unit sales. The four strokes are great bikes but this is a blue collar sport and for it to thrive, the bikes must be less expensive.
THIS!
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 10:30am
7/6/2011 10:30am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 10:36am
Kryan5 wrote:
It obvious i prefer 2 strokes. I don't try and push them on anyone. They are just more enjoyable to ride [u]for me[/u] regardless of cost...
It obvious i prefer 2 strokes. I don't try and push them on anyone. They are just more enjoyable to ride for me regardless of cost and price yadda yadda, cuz lord knows i put a boat load of money in my bike and would do so no matter what it was. I just wish i had more choices and they weren't "a dieing breed". Hey a guy can dream can't he. What i think is pointless is a bunch of guys commenting in a thread that they claim they could give two shits about and starting crap. If its a thread about 2 strokes then so what, let it be a thread about to strokes.....
What I get tired of is the two strokers acting like that if not for the displacement advantage two strokes would rule the world. Fact is in 99% of the MX and XC racing in the USA you can run straight up 2 v 4 and people have chosen to run four strokes. They spoke with their pocket books. Now that money is tight they are looking to lower their costs and two strokes are gaining favor again. I have no doubt two strokes are going to be around in 5 years and Yamaha won't be the only Japanese OEM with them. Just don't expect them to be FI and have a massive updates beyond cosmetics.

As far as competitive machinery goes I believe its the rider not the bike that wins races and people have a really tough time with that. There is no reason why you can't take a seven to ten year old two stroke and win at 99% of the racing going on in the US. What this industry needs more than anything else is 5K 125/150cc bikes that NORMAL people can buy and race.

Further I say DC and MX Sports ought to dump the WMA and run a east/west with a single national championship race for 125/150 class in its place. and not have it be a class for only juniors either. Personally I would love to see guys like Brown, Dowd, Bradshaw ect... be able to race again regionally. Just think you could run the series for the price of two PC 250F motors...
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 10:33am
7/6/2011 10:33am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 10:33am
WORCSRacer wrote:
What I get tired of is the two strokers acting like that if not for the displacement advantage two strokes would rule the world. Fact is...
What I get tired of is the two strokers acting like that if not for the displacement advantage two strokes would rule the world. Fact is in 99% of the MX and XC racing in the USA you can run straight up 2 v 4 and people have chosen to run four strokes. They spoke with their pocket books. Now that money is tight they are looking to lower their costs and two strokes are gaining favor again. I have no doubt two strokes are going to be around in 5 years and Yamaha won't be the only Japanese OEM with them. Just don't expect them to be FI and have a massive updates beyond cosmetics.

As far as competitive machinery goes I believe its the rider not the bike that wins races and people have a really tough time with that. There is no reason why you can't take a seven to ten year old two stroke and win at 99% of the racing going on in the US. What this industry needs more than anything else is 5K 125/150cc bikes that NORMAL people can buy and race.

Further I say DC and MX Sports ought to dump the WMA and run a east/west with a single national championship race for 125/150 class in its place. and not have it be a class for only juniors either. Personally I would love to see guys like Brown, Dowd, Bradshaw ect... be able to race again regionally. Just think you could run the series for the price of two PC 250F motors...
What year did that rule change? Honest question. I know Texas just changed for 2011
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 10:33am
7/6/2011 10:33am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Just too easy. You posted exactly of what we make fun of. The 4 stroke guys talk about how great the 4 strokes are, and sit...
Just too easy. You posted exactly of what we make fun of. The 4 stroke guys talk about how great the 4 strokes are, and sit there and try to explain how they are better and faster, ignoring the obvious that 2 strokes per cc kick the living shit out of 4 strokes. They are lighter, and less maintence at the same cc. It's a FACT that the only reason 4 strokes even exist in MX today because of the cc limit was lifted. So your reference to idiots in the car side, posting dumb reasons why the stick is faster, matches exactly with the nitwits that say a 4 stroke is better. LMFAO. Oh by the way, I got an email that said I made you look stupid so you went personal. Bingo.
Was the email from the same guy who told you to watch out for the OEM's...
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 7/6/2011 10:39am
7/6/2011 10:39am
I dumped my four stroke weed eater last weekend for a two stroke Hitachi. Smells great with Klotz Benol. A lot lighter and easier to whip around, too.
ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/6/2011 10:43am
7/6/2011 10:43am
WORCSRacer wrote:
What I get tired of is the two strokers acting like that if not for the displacement advantage two strokes would rule the world. Fact is...
What I get tired of is the two strokers acting like that if not for the displacement advantage two strokes would rule the world. Fact is in 99% of the MX and XC racing in the USA you can run straight up 2 v 4 and people have chosen to run four strokes. They spoke with their pocket books. Now that money is tight they are looking to lower their costs and two strokes are gaining favor again. I have no doubt two strokes are going to be around in 5 years and Yamaha won't be the only Japanese OEM with them. Just don't expect them to be FI and have a massive updates beyond cosmetics.

As far as competitive machinery goes I believe its the rider not the bike that wins races and people have a really tough time with that. There is no reason why you can't take a seven to ten year old two stroke and win at 99% of the racing going on in the US. What this industry needs more than anything else is 5K 125/150cc bikes that NORMAL people can buy and race.

Further I say DC and MX Sports ought to dump the WMA and run a east/west with a single national championship race for 125/150 class in its place. and not have it be a class for only juniors either. Personally I would love to see guys like Brown, Dowd, Bradshaw ect... be able to race again regionally. Just think you could run the series for the price of two PC 250F motors...
The amateur rules weren't changed until after the manufacturers already STOPPED making or halted development on two strokes, so I would say the cards were pretty well stacked in favor of the 4 strokes already. Of course people spoke with their pocket books. They mostly want what the racers they idolize ride, or what bike, regardless of the rider, was piloted in the championship that year. Also, they take on misleading information the media bombarded them with. It's pretty simple to fool the naive when the cards are stacked in your favor and continuing to do so is what marketing dollars are currently being spent on.

So NOW you can run cc for cc, but 2 strokes are limited in availability, and if a rider gets to the point where they aspire to go pro OR are good enough to go pro, they are at a severs disadvantage on a 2 stroke and will never get factory support until they switch to a 4 stroke, which rides completely different and would likely ruin that rider.

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