Is a aftermarket header important?

Landshark
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Landshark
Edited Date/Time 1/23/2012 11:08am
I have a 2009 RMZ 450 and want aftermarket exhaust on the cheap. Shopping on Ebay....

1. How important is it to have both header and muffler?

2. Which muffler should I buy if cost is an issue?

Thanks!
|
williamsmotowerx 6/21/2011 9:10am
6/21/2011 9:10am
Don't buy cheap , buy an FMF slip on to save money .
newmann
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newmann 6/21/2011 9:15am
6/21/2011 9:15am
First off, what do you want the exhaust system to do? More bottom end power, mid, top?? What don't you like about the one that is on there now?
Landshark
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Landshark 6/21/2011 9:27am
6/21/2011 9:27am
Would I be happy with the cheapest model FMF pipe? Looks like it would run around $350
newmann
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newmann 6/21/2011 9:29am
6/21/2011 9:29am
Landshark wrote:
Would I be happy with the cheapest model FMF pipe? Looks like it would run around $350
Not if it didn't perform the way you want it too.....

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Landshark
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Landshark 6/21/2011 9:32am
6/21/2011 9:32am
Would like to be more quiet and also more top end punch.
pie8man
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pie8man 6/21/2011 9:32am
6/21/2011 9:32am
There is always the option to just repack the one you have and ride.
It may be a good idea to call maybe one of the pipe makers. You definitely need to know what you want, More top end over rev, or more bottom to mid, or just smooth but more power all around.
Landshark
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Landshark 6/21/2011 9:39am
6/21/2011 9:39am
thanks!
The Rock
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The Rock 6/21/2011 10:02am
6/21/2011 10:02am
Landshark wrote:
Would like to be more quiet and also more top end punch.
Slip ons generally come with a sparky too PLUS of course come with new packing. Throw a quiet insert into the equation and the fact aftermarket slip ons flow better you'll accomplish your goals.
peelout
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peelout 6/21/2011 10:08am
6/21/2011 10:08am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2011 10:08am
WWDDD?

What Would Ddavis Do
queen of spodes 6/21/2011 10:12am
6/21/2011 10:12am
Better yet, buy a quality hacksaw and saw your header pipe off. Loud bikes are COOL!
njracer46
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njracer46 6/21/2011 11:07am
6/21/2011 11:07am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2011 11:10am
Slip on exhaust don't do diddly. There for looks and sound. If you want it to have greater performance gain you need to get a header to.. personally if your looking for performance why not go with an aftermarket ignition that's half the cost and will give you much more performance gain..2ndly, how much more power do you need on a 450? There already monsters straight out the box. Mxers are turning into quaders with all of them wanting to have the loudest over reviving bike out there.. ill save my 1000$ for the 2 HP gain, if that.. edit.. most exhaust make your bike louder so make sure to look with one that it has a quiet cap insert or spark arrester
HatersSuck
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HatersSuck 6/21/2011 11:28am
6/21/2011 11:28am
Landshark wrote:
I have a 2009 RMZ 450 and want aftermarket exhaust on the cheap. Shopping on Ebay.... 1. How important is it to have both header and...
I have a 2009 RMZ 450 and want aftermarket exhaust on the cheap. Shopping on Ebay....

1. How important is it to have both header and muffler?

2. Which muffler should I buy if cost is an issue?

Thanks!
If you want performance buy tires. If you want t be a poser buy a pipe
Faceaz
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Faceaz 6/21/2011 11:35am
6/21/2011 11:35am
Quickest way to make that bike go faster & have more top end punch is: Twist the throttle further.

But, or course that doesn't have the cool factor.
The Rock
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The Rock 6/21/2011 12:09pm
6/21/2011 12:09pm
njracer46 wrote:
Slip on exhaust don't do diddly. There for looks and sound. If you want it to have greater performance gain you need to get a header...
Slip on exhaust don't do diddly. There for looks and sound. If you want it to have greater performance gain you need to get a header to.. personally if your looking for performance why not go with an aftermarket ignition that's half the cost and will give you much more performance gain..2ndly, how much more power do you need on a 450? There already monsters straight out the box. Mxers are turning into quaders with all of them wanting to have the loudest over reviving bike out there.. ill save my 1000$ for the 2 HP gain, if that.. edit.. most exhaust make your bike louder so make sure to look with one that it has a quiet cap insert or spark arrester
You have dyno charts to back up your don't do diddly comment right? 1000 bucks WTF? You haven't priced slip ons or exhaust systems lately have you?

"all of them wanting to have the loudest over revving bike out there" is a gross over generalization too.

BTW you can gan two horsepower mid range and add a foot pound of torque by repacking (MXA October 2007) but in most cases need a slip on to get a sparky and quiet insert.
UpTiTe 6/21/2011 12:23pm
6/21/2011 12:23pm
No you don't need a after market header. I personally don't want to spend a million on an over price 4 stroke pipe, I would much rather have my suspesion done.

With a couple of easy mods you'll notice a huge difference cheap. Take your stock exaust end off and take it apart, drill out the baffle and repack it tightly. Then open up your air box and you'll have a different bike for 10% of the money.
40Plus_922mx
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40Plus_922mx 6/21/2011 12:38pm
6/21/2011 12:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2011 12:43pm
This oughtta do the trick!
The Rock
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The Rock 6/21/2011 1:22pm
6/21/2011 1:22pm
UpTiTe wrote:
No you don't need a after market header. I personally don't want to spend a million on an over price 4 stroke pipe, I would much...
No you don't need a after market header. I personally don't want to spend a million on an over price 4 stroke pipe, I would much rather have my suspesion done.

With a couple of easy mods you'll notice a huge difference cheap. Take your stock exaust end off and take it apart, drill out the baffle and repack it tightly. Then open up your air box and you'll have a different bike for 10% of the money.
What MX machines come with baffles (08 and 08 450 YZFs excluded) and how exactly should the baffles be drilled out?

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njracer46
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njracer46 6/21/2011 1:24pm
6/21/2011 1:24pm
njracer46 wrote:
Slip on exhaust don't do diddly. There for looks and sound. If you want it to have greater performance gain you need to get a header...
Slip on exhaust don't do diddly. There for looks and sound. If you want it to have greater performance gain you need to get a header to.. personally if your looking for performance why not go with an aftermarket ignition that's half the cost and will give you much more performance gain..2ndly, how much more power do you need on a 450? There already monsters straight out the box. Mxers are turning into quaders with all of them wanting to have the loudest over reviving bike out there.. ill save my 1000$ for the 2 HP gain, if that.. edit.. most exhaust make your bike louder so make sure to look with one that it has a quiet cap insert or spark arrester
The Rock wrote:
You have dyno charts to back up your don't do diddly comment right? 1000 bucks WTF? You haven't priced slip ons or exhaust systems lately have...
You have dyno charts to back up your don't do diddly comment right? 1000 bucks WTF? You haven't priced slip ons or exhaust systems lately have you?

"all of them wanting to have the loudest over revving bike out there" is a gross over generalization too.

BTW you can gan two horsepower mid range and add a foot pound of torque by repacking (MXA October 2007) but in most cases need a slip on to get a sparky and quiet insert.
1000$ for a full system. The fmf and pc are what 800 and some like the yoshi & hrc run well over a grand. And I can't tell you how many bikes a see with just a slip on, no header, so I'd assume my theory is not way off.. how much is a pc ignition or Tokyo mods? Last time I check about 600. And that will do much much more for half the price. Plus you have the ability to use different mapping and tune it for more bottom, top or what ever you want.. I don't need a dyno, how much power could a slip on possibly get you? It's not rocket science. True that it prob does have better air flow but what good is it if you have s stock header?
pie8man
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pie8man 6/21/2011 1:40pm
6/21/2011 1:40pm
Slip ons do make a huge difference.
Header pipe just adds to it.
The exhaust companies can accomplish nearly the same thing with a slip on or a head pipe but when you put both together you get more specific type gains.
Generally,
If you choke down the head pipe at the cylinder or in some other way slow down the exhaust flow close to the cylinder you will lose top end but gain bottom to mid. There was a time when a bills pipe slip on also came with an exhaust spacer/tube that went in between the head pipe and cylinder and fit inside the stock headpipe reducing its diameter about 1/16". It was for a low end increase, I can tell you first hand that it worked but the trade off was less on the top end.
If you lengthen the silencer you will gain bottom, Shorten it gain top.
Most exhaust companies simply increase the diameter of tube inside the silencer (this is what makes them loud) and then play with the length of the silencer until they get a good average increase.
Make no mistake a slip on adds HP and torque.
My opinion, if you can't hammer for 6 to 8 laps or whatever your race length is you would be better suited to spend your cash on a riding clinic and a gym membership.
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mjskier 6/21/2011 1:42pm
6/21/2011 1:42pm
The Rock wrote:
What MX machines come with baffles (08 and 08 450 YZFs excluded) and how exactly should the baffles be drilled out?
That's the 1000 monkeys theory. Drill enough exhausts at random and you might luck out and find the one pattern that actually works better than stock.
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Highsider 6/21/2011 2:15pm
6/21/2011 2:15pm
If you aren't fast enough to race with a stock exhaust, spend the money on professional riding lessons...seriously!
The Rock
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The Rock 6/21/2011 3:40pm
6/21/2011 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2011 3:43pm
Highsider wrote:
If you aren't fast enough to race with a stock exhaust, spend the money on professional riding lessons...seriously!
Without a duobt there is nothing like training and getting professional riding lessons. That having been said adding header and/or slip ons are not about just ADDING power it is about moving the power around in a lot of cases.

Back in 07/08 for almost a year I demo'd exhaust systems at SoCal tracks REM/Glen Helen/Perris and heard the "my 450 has enough power" so I don't need a pipe more than once. More often than not I could get most of them to try a pipe for the second moto. It was always amazing to hear comments like "man it was way easier to ride!"

njracer46-"I don't need a dyno, how much power could a slip on possibly get you?" If you don't know maybe you shouldn't make statements like "they don't do diddly"

pie8man-Great post!
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fordyone 6/21/2011 5:46pm
6/21/2011 5:46pm
njracer46 wrote:
Slip on exhaust don't do diddly. There for looks and sound. If you want it to have greater performance gain you need to get a header...
Slip on exhaust don't do diddly. There for looks and sound. If you want it to have greater performance gain you need to get a header to.. personally if your looking for performance why not go with an aftermarket ignition that's half the cost and will give you much more performance gain..2ndly, how much more power do you need on a 450? There already monsters straight out the box. Mxers are turning into quaders with all of them wanting to have the loudest over reviving bike out there.. ill save my 1000$ for the 2 HP gain, if that.. edit.. most exhaust make your bike louder so make sure to look with one that it has a quiet cap insert or spark arrester
The Rock wrote:
You have dyno charts to back up your don't do diddly comment right? 1000 bucks WTF? You haven't priced slip ons or exhaust systems lately have...
You have dyno charts to back up your don't do diddly comment right? 1000 bucks WTF? You haven't priced slip ons or exhaust systems lately have you?

"all of them wanting to have the loudest over revving bike out there" is a gross over generalization too.

BTW you can gan two horsepower mid range and add a foot pound of torque by repacking (MXA October 2007) but in most cases need a slip on to get a sparky and quiet insert.
njracer46 wrote:
1000$ for a full system. The fmf and pc are what 800 and some like the yoshi & hrc run well over a grand. And I...
1000$ for a full system. The fmf and pc are what 800 and some like the yoshi & hrc run well over a grand. And I can't tell you how many bikes a see with just a slip on, no header, so I'd assume my theory is not way off.. how much is a pc ignition or Tokyo mods? Last time I check about 600. And that will do much much more for half the price. Plus you have the ability to use different mapping and tune it for more bottom, top or what ever you want.. I don't need a dyno, how much power could a slip on possibly get you? It's not rocket science. True that it prob does have better air flow but what good is it if you have s stock header?
I happen to make a living at making exhaust pipes (slip-on's and full systems). So I can assure you slip-on's make a huge difference. Not to mention most responsible manufacturer's are making pipes quieter than stock now. As for the statement about needing a header to get maximum performance... my sales guys might tell you that.(I wouldn't) But many times we have a hard time making more power than stock headers. We can move the curve around, but then again who are we moving it for? Slow guys who buy pipes?$$$$ Or fast guys that don't have to buy pipes.

Ignitions don't do shit for the average guy. That's the last piece of equipment anybody should ever buy for they're dirt-cycle. Again this is coming from direct experience, not some jackass from jersey at his desktop dyno. Can ignitions do wonders on a race bike? sure, but not without lots of experience(past mistakes) and lots of time to test. Not to mention with the economy the way it is, people are buying pipes when they need them. (crash, dent, etc.) It would take a hell of a crash to wreck your igniton box to make it worth buying one. The Rock gets a 'lil slap happy when it comes to sound and pumping up fmf, but the dudes out there on a bike racing(gasp!) around bike people (Jody)(gasp!) and actually testing things week in and week out. He's no dummy. More people should listen to him.

And rocket science, really? Maybe you should look into the theories and science behind acoustics and then tell me its not rocket science asshole! This isn't '02 when we could throw the biggest perf core we could into a pipe and run it. We are trying to make these pipes as quiet as possible.

If all the aftermarket pipes you see at the track seem loud...that's probably because they are on the gas! No muffler on a 450 is quiet at WOT.
Long story short; njracer46 sell whatever motorcycles you own, and start playing golf.
Outsider
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Outsider 6/21/2011 6:02pm
6/21/2011 6:02pm
I've bought a lot of exhausts in the past. Cause "I needed more power".

Then I learned to properly overgrip the throttle and my bike scared the shit out me! Suspension and handlebars, imo.

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