'Use these cities as training grounds'

olds cool
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10/1/2025 5:02am
olds cool wrote:

What’s so embarrassing about telling the military to shape up, look, act and be professional and capable, or ship out? 🤷‍♂️

It's about leading by example, the Commander in Chief should set the example.

Was the leader of your great nation the guy that was having people locked up for leaving their homes a few years back?  If he was, what kind of example was that?

Asking for a friend…

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3
10/1/2025 6:09am
olds cool wrote:

What’s so embarrassing about telling the military to shape up, look, act and be professional and capable, or ship out? 🤷‍♂️

It's about leading by example, the Commander in Chief should set the example.

olds cool wrote:
Was the leader of your great nation the guy that was having people locked up for leaving their homes a few years back?  If he was...

Was the leader of your great nation the guy that was having people locked up for leaving their homes a few years back?  If he was, what kind of example was that?

Asking for a friend…

No, the federal government never locked up people for leaving their homes, but some states did.

1
4
olds cool
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10/1/2025 6:25am Edited Date/Time 10/1/2025 6:40am

It's about leading by example, the Commander in Chief should set the example.

olds cool wrote:
Was the leader of your great nation the guy that was having people locked up for leaving their homes a few years back?  If he was...

Was the leader of your great nation the guy that was having people locked up for leaving their homes a few years back?  If he was, what kind of example was that?

Asking for a friend…

No, the federal government never locked up people for leaving their homes, but some states did.

Fair enough.

So, I guess “leadership by example” can happen at any level of government!

1
TeamGreen
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10/1/2025 6:45am Edited Date/Time 10/1/2025 6:49am
TeamGreen wrote:

Go look at the acceleration of those ranks over the last 40 years…it’s insane. 

Remember when a 3 or 4 star was rare? I do.

 

APLMAN99 wrote:

The available numbers show that the total of O-7 and above is actually lower than 40 years ago. 

Sully wrote:
"A summary of the number of active-duty GFOs and the proportion of GFOs relative to the total force over the past five decades is provided in...

"A summary of the number of active-duty GFOs and the proportion of GFOs relative to the total force over the past five decades is provided in Table 5. A review of GFO levels indicates a 2.8% increase in the number of four-star officers (36 on September 30, 1965, versus 37 on September 30, 2023) and an 11% increase in the number of three-star officers (119 versus 132), with variations over time related to current events. At the same time, the number of one-star and two-star officers has decreased by about 43.3% (1,129 versus 640).

During this time, the size of the total force dropped by approximately 51.5%, from 2.66 million on September 30, 1965, to 1.29 million on September 30, 2023. Thus, a more salient measure may be the proportion of GFOs to the total force.

Looking at the data from this perspective, it is clear that although GFOs have always made up a very small percentage of the total force, the GFO corps has increased as a percentage of the total force over the past five decades. GFOs made up about one-twentieth of one percent (0.048%) of the total force in 1965, whereas they made up about one-sixteenth of one percent (0.063%) of the total force in 2023, indicating that the share of the total force made up of GFOs has increased by 31%. This historical trend is more pronounced with respect to four-star officers (which grew from 0.0014% of the total force to 0.0029%, a 107% increase) and three-star officers (which grew from 0.0045% of the total force to 0.0103%, a 129% increase). One- and two-star officers as a percentage of the total force increased less demonstrably (from 0.0425% of the total force to 0.0500%, a 17.6% increase).

These increases occurred at the same time that the size of the officer corps in general was increasing as a percentage of the total force. As indicated in the last column of Table 5, between 1965 and 2023, the officer corps increased from 12.76% of the total force in 1965 to 18.22% in 2023, indicating that the share of the total force made up of officers increased by 42.8%."

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R44389

*I added the bold

At the Pentagon…at command level locations like the offices of CINCPAC…

3 & 4 stars can be seen much more often than 40 years ago….& I’m not just talking E ring. They seem to be everywhere.

As to O-7 and O-8…there was a house-cleaning during Obama whereby they cleansed the system of potential “candidates” and fast-movers (Majors-Colonels) that didn’t align with their new world values…which is how you got Groomers like Milley…you know…THAT Milley…? The guy that got one of Biden’s “Get Out Of Jail FREE” Pardons?

About the statistics: there are now 6 branches of The War Dept. 
Navy, Army, Marines, Air Force, Space Force & Coast Guard.

When they reach Full Staffing for all 6 branches in the General Officers ranks? That should be an interesting number. But, then..again, the current administration appears to be addressing this. 

Well, I’ve heard and read that this administration is addressing the issue…but, who knows?

I have seen quite a few generals billets filled with 0-5s and O-6s during the last 15 or so years…but, again, that was greatly affected by the aforementioned 2008-2012 house-cleaning. That period is a known issue and one positive outcome was a back-lash among the entire Officer Ranks which is currently starting to truly show itself.

I have seen what I can easily call “better officers” in the pipeline…I’m talking about very recent years…young officers that are actual Total Force minded people that don’t appear to be the ass kissing politicos that have been the norm these last 15 or so years….seriously…how the fuck did we end up with ”Woke Generals”…WTF? “Thanks Obama!” 🤣

Something I read on the matter 

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/05/hegseth-to-slash-20-percent-of-4-star-billets-in-dramatic-cuts-to-active-duty-ranks/

While we’re here…there are those that witness these things for themselves…and those that believe whatever they find on Google.

I’m jus’ sayin’…

6
7

The Shop

10/1/2025 7:00am
olds cool wrote:
Was the leader of your great nation the guy that was having people locked up for leaving their homes a few years back?  If he was...

Was the leader of your great nation the guy that was having people locked up for leaving their homes a few years back?  If he was, what kind of example was that?

Asking for a friend…

No, the federal government never locked up people for leaving their homes, but some states did.

olds cool wrote:

Fair enough.

So, I guess “leadership by example” can happen at any level of government!

Politicians everywhere are self serving, they don't deserve our respect.

3
Joey Bridges
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Location
Kingston, TN, USA
10/1/2025 8:10am
TeamGreen wrote:
At the Pentagon…at command level locations like the offices of CINCPAC…3 & 4 stars can be seen much more often than 40 years ago….& I’m not...

At the Pentagon…at command level locations like the offices of CINCPAC…

3 & 4 stars can be seen much more often than 40 years ago….& I’m not just talking E ring. They seem to be everywhere.

As to O-7 and O-8…there was a house-cleaning during Obama whereby they cleansed the system of potential “candidates” and fast-movers (Majors-Colonels) that didn’t align with their new world values…which is how you got Groomers like Milley…you know…THAT Milley…? The guy that got one of Biden’s “Get Out Of Jail FREE” Pardons?

About the statistics: there are now 6 branches of The War Dept. 
Navy, Army, Marines, Air Force, Space Force & Coast Guard.

When they reach Full Staffing for all 6 branches in the General Officers ranks? That should be an interesting number. But, then..again, the current administration appears to be addressing this. 

Well, I’ve heard and read that this administration is addressing the issue…but, who knows?

I have seen quite a few generals billets filled with 0-5s and O-6s during the last 15 or so years…but, again, that was greatly affected by the aforementioned 2008-2012 house-cleaning. That period is a known issue and one positive outcome was a back-lash among the entire Officer Ranks which is currently starting to truly show itself.

I have seen what I can easily call “better officers” in the pipeline…I’m talking about very recent years…young officers that are actual Total Force minded people that don’t appear to be the ass kissing politicos that have been the norm these last 15 or so years….seriously…how the fuck did we end up with ”Woke Generals”…WTF? “Thanks Obama!” 🤣

Something I read on the matter 

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/05/hegseth-to-slash-20-percent-of-4-star-billets-in-dramatic-cuts-to-active-duty-ranks/

While we’re here…there are those that witness these things for themselves…and those that believe whatever they find on Google.

I’m jus’ sayin’…

Google links are about as credible as wikipedia. 

And here, it's easy to see who lives and dies by them.

Especially the one who gets into every damn thread around the 2nd page or so, and literally floods it with his "endless supply of worthless information".

1
8
LoudLove
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10/1/2025 8:27am

The military, like any organization, must change and adapt to survive. And like any organization, individuals reaching senior leadership may have motives other than duty, honor, country. This is an inescapable fact that has always existed. 

Staff reductions across the ranks are not unusual. Some are matrix-based while others are more arbitrary. Some of Hegseth’s recent decisions appear personally driven and not based on merit. This is where we should question decision-making and nit automatically fall in line simply because someone’s appointed by Trump. That’s a slippery slope with potentially dangerous repercussions. 

1
2
10/1/2025 8:50am

Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated people friendly to their views and eliminated people resistant to their views? This is not "new territory" that's going on here, it's just out in the open now. Did Gen. Stanley McChrystal get asked for his resignation because he was doing a bad job?

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APLMAN99
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Fantasy
10/1/2025 9:11am

If we get to the point that the number of pushups from a 2 or 3 star general is the deciding factor in our military being victorious or not, we’ll probably regret firing some that were very intelligent but may have been a little bit heavy…….

3
LoudLove
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10/1/2025 9:13am
ToolMaker wrote:
Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated...

Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated people friendly to their views and eliminated people resistant to their views? This is not "new territory" that's going on here, it's just out in the open now. Did Gen. Stanley McChrystal get asked for his resignation because he was doing a bad job?

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

1
Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
10/1/2025 9:25am
ns503 wrote:

Are all you supporters, still supporting? Still not finding even one tiny thing to be critical about?

There is not a trace of non-fascism in those words.

eins4eins wrote:
People will only understand once these authoritarian methods affect them or people they care about. But that time will come rather sooner than later, as deporting...

People will only understand once these authoritarian methods affect them or people they care about. But that time will come rather sooner than later, as deporting immigrants or oppressing lgbtq people won't appease their crowd forever. 

Deporting ILLEGAL immigrants...and rightly so...I'll join you in your criticism if legal law abiding immigrants start being deported.  

The LGBT are not being oppressed.  They've lost no rights.  As soon as LGBT start losing rights that others have (there is nothing, as a straight white man, that I can do that LGBT can't do), I'll join you in your criticism.  

There is not need to be dramatic to try and score political points.  

11
3
olds cool
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10/1/2025 9:25am
ToolMaker wrote:
Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated...

Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated people friendly to their views and eliminated people resistant to their views? This is not "new territory" that's going on here, it's just out in the open now. Did Gen. Stanley McChrystal get asked for his resignation because he was doing a bad job?

LoudLove wrote:
You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700...

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

Do you believe that what was televised for the public was the only “business” that took place yesterday?  Is it not possible that there could have been any number of other items discussed in that room?

3
10/1/2025 9:53am
ToolMaker wrote:
Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated...

Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated people friendly to their views and eliminated people resistant to their views? This is not "new territory" that's going on here, it's just out in the open now. Did Gen. Stanley McChrystal get asked for his resignation because he was doing a bad job?

LoudLove wrote:
You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700...

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been handled on a "zoom call" falls flat. The first question is "did the military suffer any catastrophic event by not having their leaders "present"? NO, and why not?  Because they could interact with their underlings via ZOOM if needed. But, in fact it was not needed right? If it's good enough one way, it's good enough the other right? They needed to be there in person so Pete and 47 know they have their undivided attention vs just turning off the noise if they don't like what Pete or 47 are saying, then later saying they had to tend to an "urgent matter". No, they can't do that now. And their posture shows their approval or disapproval, very important feed back that you don't get from ZOOM. It also shows, whether they like it or not, 47 gets to run the show. "Get on board or get the FU@K out.". Don't like it? Boo Hoo, there's a change happening and Pete's right, the military is not about protecting "feelings". Just like "the world is going to end in 10 years if we don't stop global warming" The Chicken Littles (many Chicken Littles) cries, again, like the boy who cried wolf, are just that, hollow hysteria.

TM

8
4
Joey Bridges
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Kingston, TN, USA
10/1/2025 10:00am
ToolMaker wrote:
We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been...

We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been handled on a "zoom call" falls flat. The first question is "did the military suffer any catastrophic event by not having their leaders "present"? NO, and why not?  Because they could interact with their underlings via ZOOM if needed. But, in fact it was not needed right? If it's good enough one way, it's good enough the other right? They needed to be there in person so Pete and 47 know they have their undivided attention vs just turning off the noise if they don't like what Pete or 47 are saying, then later saying they had to tend to an "urgent matter". No, they can't do that now. And their posture shows their approval or disapproval, very important feed back that you don't get from ZOOM. It also shows, whether they like it or not, 47 gets to run the show. "Get on board or get the FU@K out.". Don't like it? Boo Hoo, there's a change happening and Pete's right, the military is not about protecting "feelings". Just like "the world is going to end in 10 years if we don't stop global warming" The Chicken Littles (many Chicken Littles) cries, again, like the boy who cried wolf, are just that, hollow hysteria.

TM

It sounds like everything yesterday was well received by the rank and file members of our military. 

4
3
LoudLove
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Location
USA
10/1/2025 10:12am
ToolMaker wrote:
Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated...

Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated people friendly to their views and eliminated people resistant to their views? This is not "new territory" that's going on here, it's just out in the open now. Did Gen. Stanley McChrystal get asked for his resignation because he was doing a bad job?

LoudLove wrote:
You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700...

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

ToolMaker wrote:
We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been...

We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been handled on a "zoom call" falls flat. The first question is "did the military suffer any catastrophic event by not having their leaders "present"? NO, and why not?  Because they could interact with their underlings via ZOOM if needed. But, in fact it was not needed right? If it's good enough one way, it's good enough the other right? They needed to be there in person so Pete and 47 know they have their undivided attention vs just turning off the noise if they don't like what Pete or 47 are saying, then later saying they had to tend to an "urgent matter". No, they can't do that now. And their posture shows their approval or disapproval, very important feed back that you don't get from ZOOM. It also shows, whether they like it or not, 47 gets to run the show. "Get on board or get the FU@K out.". Don't like it? Boo Hoo, there's a change happening and Pete's right, the military is not about protecting "feelings". Just like "the world is going to end in 10 years if we don't stop global warming" The Chicken Littles (many Chicken Littles) cries, again, like the boy who cried wolf, are just that, hollow hysteria.

TM

I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military personnel?  Hell, yes!  Focus on war fighting, with a budget to match?  F’ing A, bubba! (although Congress owns the checkbook).  This meeting in Quantico gave Hegseth the chance to look his leaders in the eye and say “it’s a new day, folks!” .

Trump, on the other hand, gave a stump speech that was unseemly, knowing the audience. He’s accustomed to fawning masses, and the lukewarm reception had him scrambling. So he resorted to passive aggressive statements and shaking his fist as his adversaries. 

At the end of the day, it was a nothing burger. The generals and admirals flew back to their commands to carry out the plan of the day. The usual suspects chastised or praised the event, and the military kept on trucking. Much ado about nothing, really.  Which is a shame. 

1
mvd61
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1329
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Location
Brandon, SD, USA
10/1/2025 11:09am
ToolMaker wrote:
Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated...

Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated people friendly to their views and eliminated people resistant to their views? This is not "new territory" that's going on here, it's just out in the open now. Did Gen. Stanley McChrystal get asked for his resignation because he was doing a bad job?

LoudLove wrote:
You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700...

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

The congress and senate are always flying all over fuck on our dime for much dumber shit. We could cut lots of cost by making those lazy self serving fuck bags do zoom meetings.

3
10/1/2025 11:23am

I heard the Marriot in downtown Portland has excellent rooms with a view to watch the training exercises.

Does anybody have a coupon code?

3
1
olds cool
Posts
4295
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Location
Claremont, NC, USA
10/1/2025 11:39am
ToolMaker wrote:
Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated...

Was the "slippery slope" not already there? You frame this like Trump is doing something that has never been done before. Have other administrations not elevated people friendly to their views and eliminated people resistant to their views? This is not "new territory" that's going on here, it's just out in the open now. Did Gen. Stanley McChrystal get asked for his resignation because he was doing a bad job?

LoudLove wrote:
You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700...

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

mvd61 wrote:
The congress and senate are always flying all over fuck on our dime for much dumber shit. We could cut lots of cost by making those...

The congress and senate are always flying all over fuck on our dime for much dumber shit. We could cut lots of cost by making those lazy self serving fuck bags do zoom meetings.

They should do their jobs on zoom meetings from their home districts and states.  That would cut out a LOT of the BS that happens in the swamp and they would feel more accountable to their constituents because they would have to face them every day.  It might even put a big hurt on the lobbyist industry.

10/1/2025 11:46am
LoudLove wrote:
You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700...

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

ToolMaker wrote:
We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been...

We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been handled on a "zoom call" falls flat. The first question is "did the military suffer any catastrophic event by not having their leaders "present"? NO, and why not?  Because they could interact with their underlings via ZOOM if needed. But, in fact it was not needed right? If it's good enough one way, it's good enough the other right? They needed to be there in person so Pete and 47 know they have their undivided attention vs just turning off the noise if they don't like what Pete or 47 are saying, then later saying they had to tend to an "urgent matter". No, they can't do that now. And their posture shows their approval or disapproval, very important feed back that you don't get from ZOOM. It also shows, whether they like it or not, 47 gets to run the show. "Get on board or get the FU@K out.". Don't like it? Boo Hoo, there's a change happening and Pete's right, the military is not about protecting "feelings". Just like "the world is going to end in 10 years if we don't stop global warming" The Chicken Littles (many Chicken Littles) cries, again, like the boy who cried wolf, are just that, hollow hysteria.

TM

LoudLove wrote:
I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military...

I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military personnel?  Hell, yes!  Focus on war fighting, with a budget to match?  F’ing A, bubba! (although Congress owns the checkbook).  This meeting in Quantico gave Hegseth the chance to look his leaders in the eye and say “it’s a new day, folks!” .

Trump, on the other hand, gave a stump speech that was unseemly, knowing the audience. He’s accustomed to fawning masses, and the lukewarm reception had him scrambling. So he resorted to passive aggressive statements and shaking his fist as his adversaries. 

At the end of the day, it was a nothing burger. The generals and admirals flew back to their commands to carry out the plan of the day. The usual suspects chastised or praised the event, and the military kept on trucking. Much ado about nothing, really.  Which is a shame. 

Well Trump is Trump. He does tend to toot his own horn a lot. That aside, he has been the most pro-military president in a long time. So they like that he gets them $$s but they don't like that he has control over them. But at the end of the day, he is Commander in Chief. They might resent this power play "when I summon you, you WILL show up" but sometimes it's necessary to show who's in control.

And they did not win any election, they knew going up through the ranks they would always be under the president.

On a side note, I met the Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James T. Conway. If you spoke words of what you were to describe as a perfect physical specimen, there would be a picture of him. A great leader, that kept himself in better shape that those he was in charge of, not just his physical shape but how he moved, carried himself, interacted with people less than him. I walked away telling my wife, why can't people like that run for president. The answer is simple, if you're not going to make people a lot of money, they won't fund your campaign. Trump funded his own campaign so that wasn't a requirement for him.

TM

6
2
LoudLove
Posts
3002
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
USA
10/1/2025 12:31pm
ToolMaker wrote:
We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been...

We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been handled on a "zoom call" falls flat. The first question is "did the military suffer any catastrophic event by not having their leaders "present"? NO, and why not?  Because they could interact with their underlings via ZOOM if needed. But, in fact it was not needed right? If it's good enough one way, it's good enough the other right? They needed to be there in person so Pete and 47 know they have their undivided attention vs just turning off the noise if they don't like what Pete or 47 are saying, then later saying they had to tend to an "urgent matter". No, they can't do that now. And their posture shows their approval or disapproval, very important feed back that you don't get from ZOOM. It also shows, whether they like it or not, 47 gets to run the show. "Get on board or get the FU@K out.". Don't like it? Boo Hoo, there's a change happening and Pete's right, the military is not about protecting "feelings". Just like "the world is going to end in 10 years if we don't stop global warming" The Chicken Littles (many Chicken Littles) cries, again, like the boy who cried wolf, are just that, hollow hysteria.

TM

LoudLove wrote:
I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military...

I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military personnel?  Hell, yes!  Focus on war fighting, with a budget to match?  F’ing A, bubba! (although Congress owns the checkbook).  This meeting in Quantico gave Hegseth the chance to look his leaders in the eye and say “it’s a new day, folks!” .

Trump, on the other hand, gave a stump speech that was unseemly, knowing the audience. He’s accustomed to fawning masses, and the lukewarm reception had him scrambling. So he resorted to passive aggressive statements and shaking his fist as his adversaries. 

At the end of the day, it was a nothing burger. The generals and admirals flew back to their commands to carry out the plan of the day. The usual suspects chastised or praised the event, and the military kept on trucking. Much ado about nothing, really.  Which is a shame. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Well Trump is Trump. He does tend to toot his own horn a lot. That aside, he has been the most pro-military president in a long...

Well Trump is Trump. He does tend to toot his own horn a lot. That aside, he has been the most pro-military president in a long time. So they like that he gets them $$s but they don't like that he has control over them. But at the end of the day, he is Commander in Chief. They might resent this power play "when I summon you, you WILL show up" but sometimes it's necessary to show who's in control.

And they did not win any election, they knew going up through the ranks they would always be under the president.

On a side note, I met the Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James T. Conway. If you spoke words of what you were to describe as a perfect physical specimen, there would be a picture of him. A great leader, that kept himself in better shape that those he was in charge of, not just his physical shape but how he moved, carried himself, interacted with people less than him. I walked away telling my wife, why can't people like that run for president. The answer is simple, if you're not going to make people a lot of money, they won't fund your campaign. Trump funded his own campaign so that wasn't a requirement for him.

TM

Reminds me of when Clinton flew out to the TR (CVN-71) about a month after being sworn in (1993).  He toured the ship wearing a flight jacket and a USMC XO said “does this count as his military service?”.  Unfortunately he made the comment within earshot of a reporter, and the blowback wasn’t pleasant. 

A few days later we lost an E-2 Hawkeye and all 5 crew members perished. Clinton was on TV a couple of days later and spoke a heartfelt tribute in their memory.  It was the first casualties as CinC and it had an impact. 

10/1/2025 1:38pm
LoudLove wrote:
I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military...

I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military personnel?  Hell, yes!  Focus on war fighting, with a budget to match?  F’ing A, bubba! (although Congress owns the checkbook).  This meeting in Quantico gave Hegseth the chance to look his leaders in the eye and say “it’s a new day, folks!” .

Trump, on the other hand, gave a stump speech that was unseemly, knowing the audience. He’s accustomed to fawning masses, and the lukewarm reception had him scrambling. So he resorted to passive aggressive statements and shaking his fist as his adversaries. 

At the end of the day, it was a nothing burger. The generals and admirals flew back to their commands to carry out the plan of the day. The usual suspects chastised or praised the event, and the military kept on trucking. Much ado about nothing, really.  Which is a shame. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Well Trump is Trump. He does tend to toot his own horn a lot. That aside, he has been the most pro-military president in a long...

Well Trump is Trump. He does tend to toot his own horn a lot. That aside, he has been the most pro-military president in a long time. So they like that he gets them $$s but they don't like that he has control over them. But at the end of the day, he is Commander in Chief. They might resent this power play "when I summon you, you WILL show up" but sometimes it's necessary to show who's in control.

And they did not win any election, they knew going up through the ranks they would always be under the president.

On a side note, I met the Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James T. Conway. If you spoke words of what you were to describe as a perfect physical specimen, there would be a picture of him. A great leader, that kept himself in better shape that those he was in charge of, not just his physical shape but how he moved, carried himself, interacted with people less than him. I walked away telling my wife, why can't people like that run for president. The answer is simple, if you're not going to make people a lot of money, they won't fund your campaign. Trump funded his own campaign so that wasn't a requirement for him.

TM

LoudLove wrote:
Reminds me of when Clinton flew out to the TR (CVN-71) about a month after being sworn in (1993).  He toured the ship wearing a flight...

Reminds me of when Clinton flew out to the TR (CVN-71) about a month after being sworn in (1993).  He toured the ship wearing a flight jacket and a USMC XO said “does this count as his military service?”.  Unfortunately he made the comment within earshot of a reporter, and the blowback wasn’t pleasant. 

A few days later we lost an E-2 Hawkeye and all 5 crew members perished. Clinton was on TV a couple of days later and spoke a heartfelt tribute in their memory.  It was the first casualties as CinC and it had an impact. 

"Reminds me of when Clinton flew out to the TR (CVN-71) about a month after being sworn in (1993).  He toured the ship wearing a flight jacket and a USMC XO said “does this count as his military service?”.  Unfortunately he made the comment within earshot of a reporter, and the blowback wasn’t pleasant. "

Oops, did I just say that out loud? Oh shit!

JustMX
Posts
5354
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
10/1/2025 3:33pm
LoudLove wrote:
You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700...

You’re entirely right, TM. Trump’s appointments and the rationale behind them are not dramatically different from his predecessors.  Where Trump differs was this recall of 700 O-7s and above for no operational reason. That’s a lot of senior leadership pulled away from their duties for something that could have been managed via Zoom call. 

We’ve all been there. Senior leadership concocts some “vision” that their underlings fawn over. Next thing you know we’re booking flights to an event that almost always fails to deliver. Which is fine for us corporate shills; it’s a different story for the leadership of the free world’s largest military. 

ToolMaker wrote:
We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been...

We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been handled on a "zoom call" falls flat. The first question is "did the military suffer any catastrophic event by not having their leaders "present"? NO, and why not?  Because they could interact with their underlings via ZOOM if needed. But, in fact it was not needed right? If it's good enough one way, it's good enough the other right? They needed to be there in person so Pete and 47 know they have their undivided attention vs just turning off the noise if they don't like what Pete or 47 are saying, then later saying they had to tend to an "urgent matter". No, they can't do that now. And their posture shows their approval or disapproval, very important feed back that you don't get from ZOOM. It also shows, whether they like it or not, 47 gets to run the show. "Get on board or get the FU@K out.". Don't like it? Boo Hoo, there's a change happening and Pete's right, the military is not about protecting "feelings". Just like "the world is going to end in 10 years if we don't stop global warming" The Chicken Littles (many Chicken Littles) cries, again, like the boy who cried wolf, are just that, hollow hysteria.

TM

LoudLove wrote:
I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military...

I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military personnel?  Hell, yes!  Focus on war fighting, with a budget to match?  F’ing A, bubba! (although Congress owns the checkbook).  This meeting in Quantico gave Hegseth the chance to look his leaders in the eye and say “it’s a new day, folks!” .

Trump, on the other hand, gave a stump speech that was unseemly, knowing the audience. He’s accustomed to fawning masses, and the lukewarm reception had him scrambling. So he resorted to passive aggressive statements and shaking his fist as his adversaries. 

At the end of the day, it was a nothing burger. The generals and admirals flew back to their commands to carry out the plan of the day. The usual suspects chastised or praised the event, and the military kept on trucking. Much ado about nothing, really.  Which is a shame. 

I read the transcript.

it was 70 minutes of nothing.

His speech is easily comparable to those by Biden and Harris. 

It was an embarrassing ramble.

Just a bunch of patting himself on the back about inflated accomplishments and talking to people that are actually much more knowledgeable about the topic like they are students in a middle school current events class.

 I am hardly a lib tard.

I am someone that voted for the man 3 times and am increasingly unimpressed.

1
1
avidchimp
Posts
5870
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
10/1/2025 3:44pm
ToolMaker wrote:
We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been...

We'll have to disagree on this point. I think it was essential that they all were there in person. Your argument of it could have been handled on a "zoom call" falls flat. The first question is "did the military suffer any catastrophic event by not having their leaders "present"? NO, and why not?  Because they could interact with their underlings via ZOOM if needed. But, in fact it was not needed right? If it's good enough one way, it's good enough the other right? They needed to be there in person so Pete and 47 know they have their undivided attention vs just turning off the noise if they don't like what Pete or 47 are saying, then later saying they had to tend to an "urgent matter". No, they can't do that now. And their posture shows their approval or disapproval, very important feed back that you don't get from ZOOM. It also shows, whether they like it or not, 47 gets to run the show. "Get on board or get the FU@K out.". Don't like it? Boo Hoo, there's a change happening and Pete's right, the military is not about protecting "feelings". Just like "the world is going to end in 10 years if we don't stop global warming" The Chicken Littles (many Chicken Littles) cries, again, like the boy who cried wolf, are just that, hollow hysteria.

TM

LoudLove wrote:
I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military...

I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military personnel?  Hell, yes!  Focus on war fighting, with a budget to match?  F’ing A, bubba! (although Congress owns the checkbook).  This meeting in Quantico gave Hegseth the chance to look his leaders in the eye and say “it’s a new day, folks!” .

Trump, on the other hand, gave a stump speech that was unseemly, knowing the audience. He’s accustomed to fawning masses, and the lukewarm reception had him scrambling. So he resorted to passive aggressive statements and shaking his fist as his adversaries. 

At the end of the day, it was a nothing burger. The generals and admirals flew back to their commands to carry out the plan of the day. The usual suspects chastised or praised the event, and the military kept on trucking. Much ado about nothing, really.  Which is a shame. 

JustMX wrote:
I read the transcript.it was 70 minutes of nothing.His speech is easily comparable to those by Biden and Harris. It was an embarrassing ramble.Just a bunch of...

I read the transcript.

it was 70 minutes of nothing.

His speech is easily comparable to those by Biden and Harris. 

It was an embarrassing ramble.

Just a bunch of patting himself on the back about inflated accomplishments and talking to people that are actually much more knowledgeable about the topic like they are students in a middle school current events class.

 I am hardly a lib tard.

I am someone that voted for the man 3 times and am increasingly unimpressed.

The irony of a guy who had 5 draft deferments, with school and a bone spur being the excuse, talking down to people who actually live the job is not lost on anyone.

1
6
OriginMX
Posts
131
Joined
7/13/2025
Location
MADISON, WI, USA
10/1/2025 4:22pm Edited Date/Time 10/1/2025 4:29pm

800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration and all supporters.

 

25
LOOnatic
Posts
733
Joined
5/20/2019
Location
New Orleans, LA, USA
10/1/2025 4:55pm
OriginMX wrote:
800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration...

800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration and all supporters.

 

You are a sick person but go on and and tell me  you are ripe with TDS without telling me....

6
6
OriginMX
Posts
131
Joined
7/13/2025
Location
MADISON, WI, USA
10/1/2025 5:01pm
OriginMX wrote:
800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration...

800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration and all supporters.

 

LOOnatic wrote:

You are a sick person but go on and and tell me  you are ripe with TDS without telling me....

image 394
2
6
Titan1
Posts
9481
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/1/2025 5:43pm
OriginMX wrote:
800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration...

800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration and all supporters.

 

If ML see's that one (and I hope he does), you are banned for life...calling for the military to "wipe out" half the country ("all supporters") is sickening...absolutely sickening...

14
2
Sully
Posts
9612
Joined
8/24/2006
Location
JP
10/1/2025 5:48pm
OriginMX wrote:
800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration...

800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration and all supporters.

 

Imagine calling for the military to wipe out a presidential administration and all of its supporters, and thinking you're on the right side of things. Seek mental health help, dude. Seriously.

13
1
10/1/2025 6:08pm
OriginMX wrote:
800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration...

800 Generals stayed silent before and after the drunk and the felon spoke.  Today is Liberation  Day.  We need the military to wipe out the administration and all supporters.

 

LOOnatic wrote:

You are a sick person but go on and and tell me  you are ripe with TDS without telling me....

Same annoying sick person with a new screen name.

TM

9
2
10/1/2025 6:16pm
LoudLove wrote:
I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military...

I’m with you, and Hegseth, on a LOT of high-level subjects.  More rigorous physical standards?  Yes!  Move away (and fast) from testing social programs on military personnel?  Hell, yes!  Focus on war fighting, with a budget to match?  F’ing A, bubba! (although Congress owns the checkbook).  This meeting in Quantico gave Hegseth the chance to look his leaders in the eye and say “it’s a new day, folks!” .

Trump, on the other hand, gave a stump speech that was unseemly, knowing the audience. He’s accustomed to fawning masses, and the lukewarm reception had him scrambling. So he resorted to passive aggressive statements and shaking his fist as his adversaries. 

At the end of the day, it was a nothing burger. The generals and admirals flew back to their commands to carry out the plan of the day. The usual suspects chastised or praised the event, and the military kept on trucking. Much ado about nothing, really.  Which is a shame. 

ToolMaker wrote:
Well Trump is Trump. He does tend to toot his own horn a lot. That aside, he has been the most pro-military president in a long...

Well Trump is Trump. He does tend to toot his own horn a lot. That aside, he has been the most pro-military president in a long time. So they like that he gets them $$s but they don't like that he has control over them. But at the end of the day, he is Commander in Chief. They might resent this power play "when I summon you, you WILL show up" but sometimes it's necessary to show who's in control.

And they did not win any election, they knew going up through the ranks they would always be under the president.

On a side note, I met the Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James T. Conway. If you spoke words of what you were to describe as a perfect physical specimen, there would be a picture of him. A great leader, that kept himself in better shape that those he was in charge of, not just his physical shape but how he moved, carried himself, interacted with people less than him. I walked away telling my wife, why can't people like that run for president. The answer is simple, if you're not going to make people a lot of money, they won't fund your campaign. Trump funded his own campaign so that wasn't a requirement for him.

TM

LoudLove wrote:
Reminds me of when Clinton flew out to the TR (CVN-71) about a month after being sworn in (1993).  He toured the ship wearing a flight...

Reminds me of when Clinton flew out to the TR (CVN-71) about a month after being sworn in (1993).  He toured the ship wearing a flight jacket and a USMC XO said “does this count as his military service?”.  Unfortunately he made the comment within earshot of a reporter, and the blowback wasn’t pleasant. 

A few days later we lost an E-2 Hawkeye and all 5 crew members perished. Clinton was on TV a couple of days later and spoke a heartfelt tribute in their memory.  It was the first casualties as CinC and it had an impact. 

LL, Good discussion today, Have a good evening.

TM

1

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