FSM?

Kenny Banyan wrote:

Evidence of intelligent design is actually what can’t be ignored. 

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

The thing about religion/god (and I'm not saying any of this pertains to you, and I am not trying to start anything with the believers) is...

The thing about religion/god (and I'm not saying any of this pertains to you, and I am not trying to start anything with the believers) is that most people that are part of a religion reject most/all other religions. I'll pick on the Mormons here for no particular reason. Even though the Mormons believe in a god, roughly the same god that the Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe in, they probably have a hard time with the parts that make the Mormon religion different, the part about Joseph Smith and his golden plates. Most non Mormons find that story silly, but all religions have stories at least as silly as that.

Even if you are not religious, or follow one religion, but believe in a "higher power/creator" how do you define that creator?  

I'm not much of a Carl Sagan fan but I thought this was an interesting answer to a related question:

Kenny Banyan wrote:

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system...

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system, animals, humans, atmosphere, solar system and the list goes on and on ,not to mention how all these things work in harmony with one another. Then when you start breaking it down. Like for instance an Eagle and how its eye works .Billions of intricate parts and pieces again working in harmony and this is just one bird that is part of that harmony, actually more like trillions . Imo this is irrefutable proof that there is an intelligent designer, yes a Creator. “ Every house has a constructor “ As far as religions of this world, I’ll quote the bible where it says “that by their fruits you will recognize them” Matt 7:15-20 …… 

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

The thing about religion/god (and I'm not saying any of this pertains to you, and I am not trying to start anything with the believers) is...

The thing about religion/god (and I'm not saying any of this pertains to you, and I am not trying to start anything with the believers) is that most people that are part of a religion reject most/all other religions. I'll pick on the Mormons here for no particular reason. Even though the Mormons believe in a god, roughly the same god that the Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe in, they probably have a hard time with the parts that make the Mormon religion different, the part about Joseph Smith and his golden plates. Most non Mormons find that story silly, but all religions have stories at least as silly as that.

Even if you are not religious, or follow one religion, but believe in a "higher power/creator" how do you define that creator?  

I'm not much of a Carl Sagan fan but I thought this was an interesting answer to a related question:

Kenny Banyan wrote:

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system...

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system, animals, humans, atmosphere, solar system and the list goes on and on ,not to mention how all these things work in harmony with one another. Then when you start breaking it down. Like for instance an Eagle and how its eye works .Billions of intricate parts and pieces again working in harmony and this is just one bird that is part of that harmony, actually more like trillions . Imo this is irrefutable proof that there is an intelligent designer, yes a Creator. “ Every house has a constructor “ As far as religions of this world, I’ll quote the bible where it says “that by their fruits you will recognize them” Matt 7:15-20 …… 

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

No, you might see it, but I do not. I certainly don't claim to have an answer for how every single thing works but I don't...

No, you might see it, but I do not. I certainly don't claim to have an answer for how every single thing works but I don't feel the need to make up an answer where I don't know the answer. Don't get me wrong, I grew up having to go to church and my parents are very involved in their church. I never fit in, I always had questions and the answers I was given never made any sense. I tried to pray a few times in my younger days and I never seemed to get any sort of answer in any form. Religious people would have some explanation for why that is, but the answers never make any sense to me. I mean obviously I am not going to convince you of anything (nor do I want to) and I have heard your point of view and if believing that helps you through life, more power to you. As I've gotten older and as more significant things have happened in my life I've become more and more convinced that there is no (religious) god. And honestly, it's an extremely liberating feeling. Neil pretty much nails my feeling on the subject:

 

As a creationist what are your thoughts on the Noah's Ark experience in Kentucky? They believe their Noah's Ark story, literally. My wife, her sisters and her mother visited that place and when I saw the pictures of the dinosaurs in the cages it was a new twist I hadn't heard of before. They are all religious and I'm not sure they believe that actually happened but I had a tough time staying silent on that one.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

The thing about religion/god (and I'm not saying any of this pertains to you, and I am not trying to start anything with the believers) is...

The thing about religion/god (and I'm not saying any of this pertains to you, and I am not trying to start anything with the believers) is that most people that are part of a religion reject most/all other religions. I'll pick on the Mormons here for no particular reason. Even though the Mormons believe in a god, roughly the same god that the Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe in, they probably have a hard time with the parts that make the Mormon religion different, the part about Joseph Smith and his golden plates. Most non Mormons find that story silly, but all religions have stories at least as silly as that.

Even if you are not religious, or follow one religion, but believe in a "higher power/creator" how do you define that creator?  

I'm not much of a Carl Sagan fan but I thought this was an interesting answer to a related question:

Kenny Banyan wrote:

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system...

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system, animals, humans, atmosphere, solar system and the list goes on and on ,not to mention how all these things work in harmony with one another. Then when you start breaking it down. Like for instance an Eagle and how its eye works .Billions of intricate parts and pieces again working in harmony and this is just one bird that is part of that harmony, actually more like trillions . Imo this is irrefutable proof that there is an intelligent designer, yes a Creator. “ Every house has a constructor “ As far as religions of this world, I’ll quote the bible where it says “that by their fruits you will recognize them” Matt 7:15-20 …… 

LoudLove wrote:

I fully support anyone who adheres to intelligent design, religion, etc. In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those who can “let go and let God”, as...

I fully support anyone who adheres to intelligent design, religion, etc. In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those who can “let go and let God”, as it must be liberating.  For me personally, as someone raised in a non-religious environment, the empirical evidence simply outweighs the concept of a devine creator.  It’s comforting to believe that there’s a higher power, and I sometimes wish my mind could follow that path. For now I’ll try to be a good Christian and do unto others as I would have them do unto me. 

Kenny Banyan wrote:

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system...

I’ll respond like this….. Irregardless of religious beliefs. IMO , there is no way intelligent design can be ignored. You see it in the eco system, animals, humans, atmosphere, solar system and the list goes on and on ,not to mention how all these things work in harmony with one another. Then when you start breaking it down. Like for instance an Eagle and how its eye works .Billions of intricate parts and pieces again working in harmony and this is just one bird that is part of that harmony, actually more like trillions . Imo this is irrefutable proof that there is an intelligent designer, yes a Creator. “ Every house has a constructor “ As far as religions of this world, I’ll quote the bible where it says “that by their fruits you will recognize them” Matt 7:15-20 …… 

LoudLove wrote:

I fully support anyone who adheres to intelligent design, religion, etc. In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those who can “let go and let God”, as...

I fully support anyone who adheres to intelligent design, religion, etc. In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those who can “let go and let God”, as it must be liberating.  For me personally, as someone raised in a non-religious environment, the empirical evidence simply outweighs the concept of a devine creator.  It’s comforting to believe that there’s a higher power, and I sometimes wish my mind could follow that path. For now I’ll try to be a good Christian and do unto others as I would have them do unto me. 

Kenny Banyan wrote:

You are reading my comments and forming an inaccurate idea about me. I have a religion and study the bible.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

No, you might see it, but I do not. I certainly don't claim to have an answer for how every single thing works but I don't...

No, you might see it, but I do not. I certainly don't claim to have an answer for how every single thing works but I don't feel the need to make up an answer where I don't know the answer. Don't get me wrong, I grew up having to go to church and my parents are very involved in their church. I never fit in, I always had questions and the answers I was given never made any sense. I tried to pray a few times in my younger days and I never seemed to get any sort of answer in any form. Religious people would have some explanation for why that is, but the answers never make any sense to me. I mean obviously I am not going to convince you of anything (nor do I want to) and I have heard your point of view and if believing that helps you through life, more power to you. As I've gotten older and as more significant things have happened in my life I've become more and more convinced that there is no (religious) god. And honestly, it's an extremely liberating feeling. Neil pretty much nails my feeling on the subject:

 

As a creationist what are your thoughts on the Noah's Ark experience in Kentucky? They believe their Noah's Ark story, literally. My wife, her sisters and her mother visited that place and when I saw the pictures of the dinosaurs in the cages it was a new twist I hadn't heard of before. They are all religious and I'm not sure they believe that actually happened but I had a tough time staying silent on that one.

Kenny Banyan wrote:

I’m actually amazed when I get responses similar to yours. I believe that you can’t see it because you don’t really care enough to look into...

I’m actually amazed when I get responses similar to yours. I believe that you can’t see it because you don’t really care enough to look into it and I’m not talking about religion. I think before a religion comes into play a person has to at least acknowledge that there is a creator/ higher power. 

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

I have looked into it, that's why I don't believe there is a "creator". How life began and evolved has been explained and can be duplicated...

I have looked into it, that's why I don't believe there is a "creator". How life began and evolved has been explained and can be duplicated in the lab. So I guess in that sense there is proof that life could have been created. What's your response to my Ark Experience question? I spent a certain amount of effort typing that out.  

Last2Stroke wrote:

Alien bacteria yes, it's been found anywhere there is liquid water on Earth, but I'm skeptical about an alien civilization visiting Earth in flying saucers.

LoudLove wrote:

I fully support anyone who adheres to intelligent design, religion, etc. In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those who can “let go and let God”, as...

I fully support anyone who adheres to intelligent design, religion, etc. In fact, I’m somewhat envious of those who can “let go and let God”, as it must be liberating.  For me personally, as someone raised in a non-religious environment, the empirical evidence simply outweighs the concept of a devine creator.  It’s comforting to believe that there’s a higher power, and I sometimes wish my mind could follow that path. For now I’ll try to be a good Christian and do unto others as I would have them do unto me. 

Kenny Banyan wrote:

You are reading my comments and forming an inaccurate idea about me. I have a religion and study the bible.

LoudLove wrote:

Exactly!  And I will never try to sway the religious that their beliefs are invalid.  We’re humans, we’re flawed, and none of us have all the...

Exactly!  And I will never try to sway the religious that their beliefs are invalid.  We’re humans, we’re flawed, and none of us have all the answers. Can i definitively state there is no devine creator?  No, i cannot. But the inability to disprove something doesn’t necessarily prove that thing exists. They call it “faith” for a reason..

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

I have looked into it, that's why I don't believe there is a "creator". How life began and evolved has been explained and can be duplicated...

I have looked into it, that's why I don't believe there is a "creator". How life began and evolved has been explained and can be duplicated in the lab. So I guess in that sense there is proof that life could have been created. What's your response to my Ark Experience question? I spent a certain amount of effort typing that out.  

Kenny Banyan wrote:

I think that the ark display is hilarious because there is no mention of dinosaurs in the bible. Let alone them being loaded onto the Ark...

I think that the ark display is hilarious because there is no mention of dinosaurs in the bible. Let alone them being loaded onto the Ark. 😂 Stop with the nonsense about the time you spent typing that Void.  I do find it interesting that you started this thread , #1 …you casted your line hoping to hook into people like me to try to twist up everything we/I say and eventually try to humiliate. Could be why you brought up the ark and that ridiculous dinosaur take. Or #2 …you , although you have stated that you don’t see any evidence of a creator , but are really are searching for something because deep down inside you know that there is a god. But hung up on organized religion. I actually hope it’s #2. If it’s #1 then there’s no point in going back and forth any longer.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

If you had answered the Ark question any other way we probably would have had no reason to continue discussion. :) But, you claim to be...

If you had answered the Ark question any other way we probably would have had no reason to continue discussion. But, you claim to be a creationist, which is what the people that run the Ark Experience in Kentucky claim to be so I hope you understand me wanting to clarify where you stand there. But you do bring up the bible which does have the Ark story and you may or may not believe that story literally happened. Some religious people believe it, some don't. I hope you have called those people out for making you look bad as a creationist. Personally, I see the Bible as a book written by man/men a couple of thousand years ago with some good stories in it but it certainly isn't a source of truth, no more than I believe Joseph Smith's golden plate story is true. 

Regarding me fishing, trying to twist up what people say, humiliate, etc. Absolutely not. I just enjoy the discussion and hope to learn something in the process. I really really hope to hear things I haven't heard before, any sort of evidence to make me question the things that I have come to believe over my 60 and some odd years. I don't mind you questioning my beliefs in the slightest. I enjoy it. It's too bad most believers can't discuss it without feeling twisted up and humiliated. If they strongly believe what they believe they wouldn't feel that way. I feel like you're not upset by our conversation, just by the mere fact that we're still having it. That's good. 

Regarding how long I've been here, this isn't my first account here (hence the XX around my ID). Not that how long we've been here has any bearing whatsoever on truth. I would like to hear arguments or see evidence from the believers that I haven't heard or seen before that will help me find truth. So far I haven't heard or seen anything new. 

Finally, if I have been wrong all my life, and it turns out there is a god and there are pearly gates, when I get there I would punch god right in mouth as hard as I could for all the misery. Hopefully that statement would show you I really do not believe. If I believed even a little bit I would never make a statement like that. 

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

P.S. I was in Seattle for the first time last year. We've been doing a lot of traveling. 

burn1986 wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1AwvMTzx34/?mibextid=wwXIfr

burn1986 wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1AwvMTzx34/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Kenny Banyan wrote:

WOW Burn, not that you would care or anything, but I view in a different light now. Thanks for putting that up.💯👍🏻

burn1986 wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1AwvMTzx34/?mibextid=wwXIfr

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

I asked Grok about each of the points he made and Grok did have an answer for each of them. However, I have created a bit...

I asked Grok about each of the points he made and Grok did have an answer for each of them. However, I have created a bit of conundrum in my beliefs between this poll and the Alien poll. In this poll I say how I believe Evolution to be the correct answer to how we and every other living thing on Earth exists. But in the Alien poll I voted 0% for Aliens. The only way I can think that is that although life did happen through early chemical processes and evolution here on Earth, it must be extremely rare, possibly the only time it has ever happened. I can understand people's position that there MUST be other life out there, and they may be right. It's just odd that we haven't yet found evidence. Maybe we will one day but I don't think it will happen in the amount of time I have left. But, 0% is the correct answer for the amount of evidence that we currently have that other life does exist out there. 

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

As I mentioned I struggled internally most of my life because all of my family (as far as I know) were very religious people, and I...

As I mentioned I struggled internally most of my life because all of my family (as far as I know) were very religious people, and I, from the very earliest days in Sunday school, had serious questions about what they were trying to teach me. Even so I tried to leave the door open that I will some day find reason to believe. I can vividly remember seeing videos of Richard Dawkins many years ago for the first time and absolutely hated him for the things he was saying about believers. After all my entire family were believers and I wanted to be one just so I could fit in if for no other reason. 

I had always been a huge Penn & Teller fan since the 70s, and about 20 years ago I come to realize that they were atheists and I opened my mind a little to what they were saying, even though it was not comfortable. I remember Penn talking about being a good friend of Christpher Hitchins so I started checking out some of his speeches. At first, much like Dawkins, I didn't like him and didn't like what he was saying but boy some of it did make a lot of sense to me. More sense than the answers I would get when I would ask "how" did god create everything. The answers were "nobody can know that, you just have to believe". Then I lost my only son over 11 years ago now and I realize there are two paths one could take when something like that happens. It might cause a person to believe more strongly that one day maybe they can meet up again in the next life, or it might be proof that there is no way god can exist, at least not a good god. 

For me, it was the latter. It cemented my belief that there is no god and I have since gone back and watched a lot of the Hitchins speeches, the Dawkins speeches, the Niel deGrass Tyson speeches, the Penn and Teller speeches and I realize they are all right. I finally felt comfortable with it after all those years of struggle. It was so liberating. I no longer have to try to pretend I believe in something I don't believe in.

Hitchins on Pascal's Wager:

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

As I mentioned I struggled internally most of my life because all of my family (as far as I know) were very religious people, and I...

As I mentioned I struggled internally most of my life because all of my family (as far as I know) were very religious people, and I, from the very earliest days in Sunday school, had serious questions about what they were trying to teach me. Even so I tried to leave the door open that I will some day find reason to believe. I can vividly remember seeing videos of Richard Dawkins many years ago for the first time and absolutely hated him for the things he was saying about believers. After all my entire family were believers and I wanted to be one just so I could fit in if for no other reason. 

I had always been a huge Penn & Teller fan since the 70s, and about 20 years ago I come to realize that they were atheists and I opened my mind a little to what they were saying, even though it was not comfortable. I remember Penn talking about being a good friend of Christpher Hitchins so I started checking out some of his speeches. At first, much like Dawkins, I didn't like him and didn't like what he was saying but boy some of it did make a lot of sense to me. More sense than the answers I would get when I would ask "how" did god create everything. The answers were "nobody can know that, you just have to believe". Then I lost my only son over 11 years ago now and I realize there are two paths one could take when something like that happens. It might cause a person to believe more strongly that one day maybe they can meet up again in the next life, or it might be proof that there is no way god can exist, at least not a good god. 

For me, it was the latter. It cemented my belief that there is no god and I have since gone back and watched a lot of the Hitchins speeches, the Dawkins speeches, the Niel deGrass Tyson speeches, the Penn and Teller speeches and I realize they are all right. I finally felt comfortable with it after all those years of struggle. It was so liberating. I no longer have to try to pretend I believe in something I don't believe in.

Hitchins on Pascal's Wager:

Kenny Banyan wrote:

Thanks for sharing all that , many still here remember when you lost your son. I believe what the bible says about the resurrection. I think...

Thanks for sharing all that , many still here remember when you lost your son. I believe what the bible says about the resurrection. I think it’s a beautiful arrangement that gives people something to look forward to in the future , that they will be able to see loved ones again. It’s odd for me to imagine what it would be like to actually believe that once you die you’re done. For some reason and maybe I’m totally off, but I think you are still searching. If your heart is truly open,  God will present an opportunity to come to know him. Don’t turn it away, give it a chance.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

It's always open, but if there is a creator, he created me without the ability to believe. Maybe some day that will change, but time is...

It's always open, but if there is a creator, he created me without the ability to believe. Maybe some day that will change, but time is running out fast. In my case "when you die you're done" is probably a much better alternative than eternity in Hell which is likely where I would end up.  

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

It's always open, but if there is a creator, he created me without the ability to believe. Maybe some day that will change, but time is...

It's always open, but if there is a creator, he created me without the ability to believe. Maybe some day that will change, but time is running out fast. In my case "when you die you're done" is probably a much better alternative than eternity in Hell which is likely where I would end up.  

Kenny Banyan wrote:

No , That’s in your head. I think you should try reaching out in prayer and continue to do so till you get an answer or...

No , That’s in your head. I think you should try reaching out in prayer and continue to do so till you get an answer or a sign. Even if it feels odd or stupid if you’re Ernest something will happen or click for you.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

No offense but I can't imagine that ever happening. I mean there would be just as much chance of me praying to FSM. For me there...

No offense but I can't imagine that ever happening. I mean there would be just as much chance of me praying to FSM. For me there is literally no difference.