Posts
12476
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA
US
Fantasy
4254th
Edited Date/Time
7/4/2013 4:11pm
Okay, I guess this is a hypothetical, but when they talk about the sand not being as deep these days and there being a hard base, is that a factor of the track being compacted after being run for so many years? Is it something that could be improved if they went in and did a thorough really deep ripping? I've heard of them using 4 foot attachments on dozers in vineyards out here to get through the hard pan.
I'm not a dirt moving guy, so maybe this is a dopey question.
I'm not a dirt moving guy, so maybe this is a dopey question.
I just got done watching RV's entire GoPro 2nd moto. I was shocked how smooth the track was
compared to the 70's.
The attachment you're referring to is known as a ripper. It's used to breakup hard ground so that it
can be re shaped or moved.
I'm thinking that over the years, the sand has simply been moved off the surface of Southwick. We are
now down to hardpack soil. A ripper wouldn't bring more sand to the surface because there is no sand to bring up.
An alternative would be to relocate sand from other areas (if available) on the site or truck it in.
Either way, it would be expensive, or very expensive if you want to bring in sand.
I figure years of riding and machining has just eroded the surface away.
close to the Ocean, Diamondback and St. Pete.
They basically had no bottom and you could never (practically) find the bottom. That's the way Southwick used to be.
These tracks would whoop out to the point that the only way to ride them fast was to let the bike skim the top
and hang on. It was a specialty that few mastered.
FTE, being from Sacramento , I'm assuming you haven't seen alot of the type of mixed soil conditions we have on the
Right Coast.
The Shop
Places it doesn't happen so much at are places that don't constantly have bikes upon them, like Mammoth Mountain and Loretta Lynn's, for example. Or in places like Law said, where there was no bottom, like Cocoa Beach, where truly was a beach.
DC
MX Sports
But no, it's pretty hard to find that rich loamy farm land stuff that would make a gardener weep. I loved racing sand, Plymouth was such an awesome track, probably my favorite of all time, and definitely the one I miss the most of track closures I've been through, I will miss Sputhwick a lot if this sticks.
You got any spare cash laying around? Maybe we should buy Southwick from the Legion, make a deal with MX Sports and get in on the "millions" being made!
No way. Running races is no way to make money.
We'll see how it goes. I'll say the Pitello's have given their lives to that place. I'm thinking that the real "Southwick" is wherever they go, not the patch of land that we've been to for 35 years!
Speaking of Northern California dirt, that Sears Point track was one I had a real problem with.
I always describe it to people like this, imagine a black top parking lot, broken up and covered with straw, that's Sears.
I hated it!
If it has been dry for several weeks, then the sand is much looser, and for some reason it does not get as rough as it does when there is moisture in the track. Think of it like clumping kitty litter, but to a lessor degree.
Hot and dry conditions vs. hot and humid conditions vs. wet and humid conditions can all result in different types of race lines opening up.
Lastly, the big issue that they face at Southwick is run off from the rainstorms that come through when they are not racing.
The track, and because it is not protected and the soil is very soft, has a constant problem with erosion and run off. In heavy rain, the track will literally wash away.
This has been a problem since the track was built. No hill is safe, and it seems like whenever they have heavy rain during the week, portions of the track will washout, and in some places, you might find trenches 3' deep or more! This has been going for years.
They (well the guy who takes care of the track, Anvil Rock) have been sourcing replacement soil locally, so it is the same type of sand, but it is not "indigenous" to Powder Mill Road.
This year at the national I noticed some small round baseball size rocks in certain portions of the track, and I assume those come courtesy of the sand pit, or wherever they get the soil from.
Thus, there are quite a few variables that can effect the track surface at the 'Wick.
That track was a real bear, for me.
I had no time to test for it, just show up and ride it.
Edit...tell Bauer he owes me an apology. Pussy.
That's some really good info.
Is there a clay or gravel bottom there?
What kind of borrow are they bringing in?
Loved Carlsbad and a place called Palm Ave. Blue groove and rock hard, but I am from San Diego.
You know it's funny.
As much as I hated Sears, I absolutely loved Saddleback. Blue groove. The big difference , for me, was the blue groove would berm up. Got a second behind Wardy day before the USGP in 78.
45 minute moto!
Edit:
And a brand new set of Metzlers, the key to the "blue groove"
The sand is not the type you find on the beach or river banks, as it is much finer, but it is still sand. I think the base is so dense, that is what causes it to have a "hard base".
I've got to ask.
You're from Nor Cal.
What's your connection to the soil conditions at the Wick?
Pit Row
to accelerate the composting process lime is added which in turn has a positive effect on the clay
Valkenswaard and Lierop is basically Lommel sand with compost,
here we call it black and white sand (white sand gets firmer by moisture black sand the exact opposite)
Valkenswaard is slightly harder compared to Lierop because it has some gravel layers
http://www.cmg.colostate.edu/gardennotes/214.html
Case in point the second corner was so high i never seen it like that. So much sandy material kinda being waisted
blame the wind
Sorry to hear that about the Marysville tracks, I guess it's to the river to restore them. The benefit of Plymouth was that the track, at least the sandy parts, was where the sand went when it eroded away from somewhere else.
I wonder how much overuse is a factor, with fewer tracks and riding areas.
I grew up in CT thought am now (mostly) based on Nor Cal.
When I was a kid and growing up, I rode the sand every winter when everything else was frozen solid in the Northeast.
Rode sand in Southeastern Mass (Plymouth / Cape area), Central CT (Hartford and New Haven), Long Island (Westhampton and a few no mans land places), the famous NJ Pine Barrens (best...riding....ever) as well as the outer banks area in NC and SC. Also rode a fair share of sand places in Florida as well, but everything is powder like sand south of Jacksonville....
Call me a loser, but it is my favorite surface to ride MX on, and I have spent quite a bit of time paying attention to the various types of sand and softer loam that exist in various regions of the country.
I hear the UP of Michigan has some of the best sand riding and I am keen to make my way up there at some point and check it out.
As it relates to this thread, for sure Southwick is a harder type of sand when compared to the coastal regions of sand. I assume this is because the ocean sand is different than the river sand, but I am no soil scientist.
But I also observe that conditions can vary significantly depending on both the weather and type of prep. If we have had rain recently, then they are much better, than say, now, when they are hard as heck.
Fish has that smaller "sand track" at MMX and that is almost like Pea Gravel as opposed to sand, and that is the softest / loamiest sand I have seen in Nor Cal.
That said, I doubt overuse is a factor, though i do observe that years ago race tracks did not host as much riding and "open practice" sessions, as the abundance of local riding spots did not necessitate paying $20 or whatever to ride.
I do think they also configure the track a little different for those things, and with less of the elevation changes and certain portion of the tracks cut off. But I am pretty sure the sand they have brought in has all been sourced locally.
Post a reply to: Southwick prep question