Should they bring back the "claiming" rule?..

Big Lenny
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Big Lenny
Edited Date/Time 6/21/2017 12:21pm
Thoughts?..
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endurox
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endurox 3/19/2016 8:36pm
3/19/2016 8:36pm
yes
25k for the 250's
50k for the 450's
gjbruny
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gjbruny 3/19/2016 8:42pm
3/19/2016 8:42pm Edited Date/Time 3/19/2016 8:44pm
my guess is kenny and eli sure would favor it right now

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GuyB
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GuyB 3/19/2016 8:47pm
3/19/2016 8:47pm
Yes. I want to claim Ryan Dungey's skill and work ethic.
umagumadog
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umagumadog 3/19/2016 8:53pm
3/19/2016 8:53pm
WTF? You a posted complete title? Isn't that against the rules?
jeffro503
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jeffro503 3/19/2016 9:25pm
3/19/2016 9:25pm
endurox wrote:
yes
25k for the 250's
50k for the 450's
That wouldn't even pay for the forks on them bikes.
ML512
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ML512 3/19/2016 9:27pm
3/19/2016 9:27pm
endurox wrote:
yes
25k for the 250's
50k for the 450's
jeffro503 wrote:
That wouldn't even pay for the forks on them bikes.
It would pay for them.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 3/19/2016 9:30pm
3/19/2016 9:30pm
endurox wrote:
yes
25k for the 250's
50k for the 450's
jeffro503 wrote:
That wouldn't even pay for the forks on them bikes.
ML512 wrote:
It would pay for them.
On a factory bike , isn't 50K about what those suckers are going for? Were not talking just run of the mill A-kit stuff here.
endurox
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endurox 3/19/2016 9:39pm
3/19/2016 9:39pm
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would go for injured pro riders.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 3/19/2016 9:48pm
3/19/2016 9:48pm Edited Date/Time 3/19/2016 9:50pm
endurox wrote:
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would...
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would go for injured pro riders.
Where does it state that " suspension " should only cost so much? I know a lot of guys confuse " factory suspension " and " A-kit suspension " as being the same thing , and they are not. If you have enough money you can buy the high end A-kit stuff , but factory level suspension has stuff in it that isn't really available to the public. Making it not only non-affordable , but impossible to get unless you ride for a factory team , or a factory supported team. OR....know someone.

ML , don't they list those parts as a type of R&D , so they don't have to produce and sell stuff like that?
chump6784
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chump6784 3/19/2016 10:05pm
3/19/2016 10:05pm
My understanding it's when someone says "those forks are worth 50k" it isn't the actual components of the forks but the cost of them when you add up the r&d that goes into them
ML512
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ML512 3/19/2016 10:05pm
3/19/2016 10:05pm
endurox wrote:
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would...
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would go for injured pro riders.
jeffro503 wrote:
Where does it state that " suspension " should only cost so much? I know a lot of guys confuse " factory suspension " and "...
Where does it state that " suspension " should only cost so much? I know a lot of guys confuse " factory suspension " and " A-kit suspension " as being the same thing , and they are not. If you have enough money you can buy the high end A-kit stuff , but factory level suspension has stuff in it that isn't really available to the public. Making it not only non-affordable , but impossible to get unless you ride for a factory team , or a factory supported team. OR....know someone.

ML , don't they list those parts as a type of R&D , so they don't have to produce and sell stuff like that?
In the 250F class there's a price cap on suspension. That's what Kit stuff usually falls into.

I've seen some price sheets for the works stuff, it's pricey, but not that horrible. The billet shock bodies are one of the bigger ticket items.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 3/19/2016 10:13pm
3/19/2016 10:13pm
chump6784 wrote:
My understanding it's when someone says "those forks are worth 50k" it isn't the actual components of the forks but the cost of them when you...
My understanding it's when someone says "those forks are worth 50k" it isn't the actual components of the forks but the cost of them when you add up the r&d that goes into them
Yeah , I totally get that. Kind of ( but not quite as ) the same as one-off special parts made for a specific rider. Parts that any joe schmoe can't buy.

I know quite a few years ago , I had heard that some of the factories were making some parts available to the public , but the prices were to insane , that nobody in their right mind would actually pay for them. ( I had a hard time locating these parts but found them , and they were very hard to find , on top of being extremely expensive. ) But the factories did what they were told and made them available to the public. Now days.....lets say I wanted a set of WP forks exactly like RD's bike......where would you even look to find those parts? I'm talking " EXACT PARTS ".

Kind of like a guy buying a full blown PC 250F for a lot of money. It's the best they sell , but is NOT the same thing their riders are racing. Maybe 98% the same....but still missing those few , unknown special parts.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 3/19/2016 10:16pm
3/19/2016 10:16pm Edited Date/Time 3/19/2016 10:16pm
endurox wrote:
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would...
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would go for injured pro riders.
jeffro503 wrote:
Where does it state that " suspension " should only cost so much? I know a lot of guys confuse " factory suspension " and "...
Where does it state that " suspension " should only cost so much? I know a lot of guys confuse " factory suspension " and " A-kit suspension " as being the same thing , and they are not. If you have enough money you can buy the high end A-kit stuff , but factory level suspension has stuff in it that isn't really available to the public. Making it not only non-affordable , but impossible to get unless you ride for a factory team , or a factory supported team. OR....know someone.

ML , don't they list those parts as a type of R&D , so they don't have to produce and sell stuff like that?
ML512 wrote:
In the 250F class there's a price cap on suspension. That's what Kit stuff usually falls into. I've seen some price sheets for the works stuff...
In the 250F class there's a price cap on suspension. That's what Kit stuff usually falls into.

I've seen some price sheets for the works stuff, it's pricey, but not that horrible. The billet shock bodies are one of the bigger ticket items.
If you had to pay for every single part for a set of forks off Dungey's , Tomac's , Canard's or Stewart's bikes......and if you were rich , what do you think it would cost you? That's even if you could actually buy every single part. I mean everything.
KennyT
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KennyT 3/19/2016 10:21pm
3/19/2016 10:21pm
Back when it was in place there was a huge gap between the factory and privateer bikes. I think they have closed the gap considerably over the years so my vote would be no.

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mx216
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mx216 3/19/2016 10:24pm
3/19/2016 10:24pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Where does it state that " suspension " should only cost so much? I know a lot of guys confuse " factory suspension " and "...
Where does it state that " suspension " should only cost so much? I know a lot of guys confuse " factory suspension " and " A-kit suspension " as being the same thing , and they are not. If you have enough money you can buy the high end A-kit stuff , but factory level suspension has stuff in it that isn't really available to the public. Making it not only non-affordable , but impossible to get unless you ride for a factory team , or a factory supported team. OR....know someone.

ML , don't they list those parts as a type of R&D , so they don't have to produce and sell stuff like that?
ML512 wrote:
In the 250F class there's a price cap on suspension. That's what Kit stuff usually falls into. I've seen some price sheets for the works stuff...
In the 250F class there's a price cap on suspension. That's what Kit stuff usually falls into.

I've seen some price sheets for the works stuff, it's pricey, but not that horrible. The billet shock bodies are one of the bigger ticket items.
jeffro503 wrote:
If you had to pay for every single part for a set of forks off Dungey's , Tomac's , Canard's or Stewart's bikes......and if you were...
If you had to pay for every single part for a set of forks off Dungey's , Tomac's , Canard's or Stewart's bikes......and if you were rich , what do you think it would cost you? That's even if you could actually buy every single part. I mean everything.
I don't think the its the components that are the hard thing to do find. What makes their suspension so good is the time and effort put into tailoring it to the guy. Some guys are way more picky and test a lot more than others, and the price on that time is what's crazy. Just because you buy "kit" suspension, doesn't mean it's any better than what you have currently. If you can't set it up or know what you want, then it really can be worse than good production stuff.
ML512
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ML512 3/19/2016 10:30pm
3/19/2016 10:30pm
jeffro503 wrote:
If you had to pay for every single part for a set of forks off Dungey's , Tomac's , Canard's or Stewart's bikes......and if you were...
If you had to pay for every single part for a set of forks off Dungey's , Tomac's , Canard's or Stewart's bikes......and if you were rich , what do you think it would cost you? That's even if you could actually buy every single part. I mean everything.
Every one of those sets mentioned cost a different amount from the other... Laughing The cheapest set though... Dungey's stuff.
Crush
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Crush 3/19/2016 10:39pm
3/19/2016 10:39pm
I'm sure HRC can't wait for their bikes to be in the hands of someone else.

Moving on...
jeffro503
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jeffro503 3/19/2016 10:43pm
3/19/2016 10:43pm
ML512 wrote:
In the 250F class there's a price cap on suspension. That's what Kit stuff usually falls into. I've seen some price sheets for the works stuff...
In the 250F class there's a price cap on suspension. That's what Kit stuff usually falls into.

I've seen some price sheets for the works stuff, it's pricey, but not that horrible. The billet shock bodies are one of the bigger ticket items.
jeffro503 wrote:
If you had to pay for every single part for a set of forks off Dungey's , Tomac's , Canard's or Stewart's bikes......and if you were...
If you had to pay for every single part for a set of forks off Dungey's , Tomac's , Canard's or Stewart's bikes......and if you were rich , what do you think it would cost you? That's even if you could actually buy every single part. I mean everything.
mx216 wrote:
I don't think the its the components that are the hard thing to do find. What makes their suspension so good is the time and effort...
I don't think the its the components that are the hard thing to do find. What makes their suspension so good is the time and effort put into tailoring it to the guy. Some guys are way more picky and test a lot more than others, and the price on that time is what's crazy. Just because you buy "kit" suspension, doesn't mean it's any better than what you have currently. If you can't set it up or know what you want, then it really can be worse than good production stuff.
yeah I get that too Joel , but what I'm asking is.....about the parts a normal person just can't buy.

In a machine shop with CNC's , having one , two or three parts made to a specific map can cost a LOT of money. But when you buy 5000 of those pieces , the costs go waaaayy down.

The special one-off parts is where I came up with the 50K number. And yeah , I totally get the testing after testing thing and why it matters a lot. Those special little one off valves , and other little parts are what I'm curious about.

Gawd dang it , I don't even want to say anything here without getting someone in trouble. But I know of a machinist , who makes some of the factory ( inside suspension parts ) for a specific team. Actually Joel , I think you know him too. And without getting into to much detail , that's what got me thinking of what it would cost a normal guy to build a set of factory suspenders.

I also know , that both of you ( Joel and Michael ) would know more about this stuff then I would.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 3/19/2016 10:57pm
3/19/2016 10:57pm
endurox wrote:
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would...
AMA states that suspension costs should not exceed x amount depending on the class. Bikes would be delievered at end of season and the money would go for injured pro riders.
I don't think you understand how a claiming rule works......

The money goes to the former owner of the machine that was successfully claimed, not to any sort of charity.
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Jeff alessi 3/19/2016 11:50pm
3/19/2016 11:50pm
Not a chance, the only reason those guys are winning is because of the amount of work they put into there program. Dungey id a workaholic and that's hard to beat. Just gotta work that hard and hope you can put it at the front at the start of almost every main to beat a guy that's driven that hard. I believe rd would find a way to be up front even if he dudnt have such a good program. He's worked for that.
Celine
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Celine 3/19/2016 11:54pm
3/19/2016 11:54pm
Jeff alessi wrote:
Not a chance, the only reason those guys are winning is because of the amount of work they put into there program. Dungey id a workaholic...
Not a chance, the only reason those guys are winning is because of the amount of work they put into there program. Dungey id a workaholic and that's hard to beat. Just gotta work that hard and hope you can put it at the front at the start of almost every main to beat a guy that's driven that hard. I believe rd would find a way to be up front even if he dudnt have such a good program. He's worked for that.
Jeff,

When Dungey laps you, does it really look like he's on rails? I mean, does it blow you away how fast he is going when he rides by you?
Jeff alessi
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Jeff alessi 3/20/2016 12:09am
3/20/2016 12:09am Edited Date/Time 3/20/2016 12:10am
Jeff alessi wrote:
Not a chance, the only reason those guys are winning is because of the amount of work they put into there program. Dungey id a workaholic...
Not a chance, the only reason those guys are winning is because of the amount of work they put into there program. Dungey id a workaholic and that's hard to beat. Just gotta work that hard and hope you can put it at the front at the start of almost every main to beat a guy that's driven that hard. I believe rd would find a way to be up front even if he dudnt have such a good program. He's worked for that.
Celine wrote:
Jeff, When Dungey laps you, does it really look like he's on rails? I mean, does it blow you away how fast he is going when...
Jeff,

When Dungey laps you, does it really look like he's on rails? I mean, does it blow you away how fast he is going when he rides by you?
Ofcourse! He's on another level then the rest of the class. The rest of anyone. Right now he's picking off every bit of proggression there is at a time and it's building up tall over his competition.
Celine
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Celine 3/20/2016 12:18am
3/20/2016 12:18am
Jeff alessi wrote:
Ofcourse! He's on another level then the rest of the class. The rest of anyone. Right now he's picking off every bit of proggression there is...
Ofcourse! He's on another level then the rest of the class. The rest of anyone. Right now he's picking off every bit of proggression there is at a time and it's building up tall over his competition.
Yeah, it must be nice to witness it so close at that level.

TV does not do it justice.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 3/20/2016 12:39am
3/20/2016 12:39am
Jeff alessi wrote:
Not a chance, the only reason those guys are winning is because of the amount of work they put into there program. Dungey id a workaholic...
Not a chance, the only reason those guys are winning is because of the amount of work they put into there program. Dungey id a workaholic and that's hard to beat. Just gotta work that hard and hope you can put it at the front at the start of almost every main to beat a guy that's driven that hard. I believe rd would find a way to be up front even if he dudnt have such a good program. He's worked for that.
I don't want this to come off as a personal dig, because I don't mean it as one, but if you truly believe that the only reason he's winning is the amount of work he puts in, what keeps you from putting in more work than him? I don't have a doubt that there have been stretches during his career when your brother has put in as much work as anyone racing at the time, and it hasn't resulted in winning titles.

Working hard definitely is a huge component, but there has to be other factors involved.

Where hard work seems to pay off the most is when top competitors with lots of talent and opportunities don't put out the maximum effort to prepare, something that Dungey doesn't seem to suffer from. That sort of situation occurs in most sports, not just moto.
Celine
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Celine 3/20/2016 2:17am
3/20/2016 2:17am
APLMAN99 wrote:
I don't want this to come off as a personal dig, because I don't mean it as one, but if you truly believe that the only...
I don't want this to come off as a personal dig, because I don't mean it as one, but if you truly believe that the only reason he's winning is the amount of work he puts in, what keeps you from putting in more work than him? I don't have a doubt that there have been stretches during his career when your brother has put in as much work as anyone racing at the time, and it hasn't resulted in winning titles.

Working hard definitely is a huge component, but there has to be other factors involved.

Where hard work seems to pay off the most is when top competitors with lots of talent and opportunities don't put out the maximum effort to prepare, something that Dungey doesn't seem to suffer from. That sort of situation occurs in most sports, not just moto.
Genetics.

Luck.
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just James 3/20/2016 2:52am
3/20/2016 2:52am
Jeff alessi wrote:
Ofcourse! He's on another level then the rest of the class. The rest of anyone. Right now he's picking off every bit of proggression there is...
Ofcourse! He's on another level then the rest of the class. The rest of anyone. Right now he's picking off every bit of proggression there is at a time and it's building up tall over his competition.
Hey Jeff, good job making the main last night. You got quite a bit of TV time.

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