Riders Union

aroark247
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Could we possibly see change in pay if the manufacturer's (all 6) got together and said none of our factory supported riders under contract will be allowed to race your SX series until you restructure the payout. Yeah privateers would still try and race, but the show would fold if the factory riders weren't in it anymore.
I'm sick of seeing promoter's whore out professional athletes, and the riders let themselves get taken advantage of because they don't know any better. Economics and marketing probably aren't on the homeschool curriculum
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boston_jorj
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1/23/2017 10:32am
In an ideal world. I wouldn't hold your breath.
lostboy819
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1/23/2017 10:32am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2017 10:35am
So now its the factory riders who don't get paid enough. LOL



Motofinne
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1/23/2017 10:36am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2017 10:36am
And i want to pick 5 million € from my money tree that i planted 1 year ago.

It's impossible to make happen. We have Feld, MX Sports, Youthstream, FIM, AMA, OEMs, the riders, the national federations and the energy drinks(that actually have a lot of power in our sport). It's a mess.

It would be great to see it happen but it's a utopia for the time being.

The Shop

Question
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1/23/2017 11:33am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2017 11:35am
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory contract (let us say team with more than a $2m?). The factory team would still be there since they are here for exposure. That money is peanuts or not critical for most of these elite riders, whereas it is critical for full privateers like Wilson, Hahn, Weimer, Mookie and most of the guys in the night show. For me any privateer making the night show should get a flat 2k, and for instance 5k for a main. With a 85k pay out just in feld bonus for a 17 round season, then we could see something "fair".

Second thing; a schedule that goes back and forth across such a huge country is beyond the ecological impact really weird economically. I am sure there is a way to cut the mileage by 4, and so the transportation costs. That may help the outdoors too, and more importantly the privateers.
hvaughn88
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Conway, AR US
1/23/2017 11:36am
Question wrote:
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory...
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory contract (let us say team with more than a $2m?). The factory team would still be there since they are here for exposure. That money is peanuts or not critical for most of these elite riders, whereas it is critical for full privateers like Wilson, Hahn, Weimer, Mookie and most of the guys in the night show. For me any privateer making the night show should get a flat 2k, and for instance 5k for a main. With a 85k pay out just in feld bonus for a 17 round season, then we could see something "fair".

Second thing; a schedule that goes back and forth across such a huge country is beyond the ecological impact really weird economically. I am sure there is a way to cut the mileage by 4, and so the transportation costs. That may help the outdoors too, and more importantly the privateers.
No. I refuse to ever be on board with taking win money away from someone just because they are better then the rest of the field.
chuck317
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Cleveland, TN US
1/23/2017 11:52am
Question wrote:
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory...
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory contract (let us say team with more than a $2m?). The factory team would still be there since they are here for exposure. That money is peanuts or not critical for most of these elite riders, whereas it is critical for full privateers like Wilson, Hahn, Weimer, Mookie and most of the guys in the night show. For me any privateer making the night show should get a flat 2k, and for instance 5k for a main. With a 85k pay out just in feld bonus for a 17 round season, then we could see something "fair".

Second thing; a schedule that goes back and forth across such a huge country is beyond the ecological impact really weird economically. I am sure there is a way to cut the mileage by 4, and so the transportation costs. That may help the outdoors too, and more importantly the privateers.
just because they have a salary does not mean they don't get paid. the one behind just have to get faster.thats like taking money from the rich and giving to the poor.
MXER231
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1/23/2017 12:25pm
I don't think a union will ever work. When I hear union all I think about is a bunch of employees wanting more money from the man cause he makes too much. What the sport needs is a committee of ex-pros, people who have been in the situations that the current riders are in and also have tons of knowledge of the sport. It could be an association/organization or whatever name suits it best. The AMA is suppose to be this, but as we all know fails to actually be the governing body. How many people in the AMA actually raced at a high level? My guess is not very many. We need a group that will meet with FELD, Mxsports, and the OEM's to come up with changes that will help the sport grow. And not just on the pro side. Amateur racing has its fair share of problems too. When you look at the sport from the outside, like someone who has no idea what dirtbikes are, you get a way different opinion on how this sport is run. I could on all day about things that could change for the better of mx but I think I'm wasting my time.
Phillip_Lamb
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1/23/2017 2:55pm
aroark247 wrote:
Could we possibly see change in pay if the manufacturer's (all 6) got together and said none of our factory supported riders under contract will be...
Could we possibly see change in pay if the manufacturer's (all 6) got together and said none of our factory supported riders under contract will be allowed to race your SX series until you restructure the payout. Yeah privateers would still try and race, but the show would fold if the factory riders weren't in it anymore.
I'm sick of seeing promoter's whore out professional athletes, and the riders let themselves get taken advantage of because they don't know any better. Economics and marketing probably aren't on the homeschool curriculum
it would take the riders banding together, not the manufacturers
rrjr
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1/23/2017 3:07pm
They should run it like Monster Jam. Feld owns most of the teams and pays appearance money to the ones they don't. Then they pretend like they're really racing.
Mr. Info
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1/23/2017 3:49pm
Do you know somebody on the inside? Lol
Question
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1/23/2017 3:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/23/2017 3:54pm
Question wrote:
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory...
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory contract (let us say team with more than a $2m?). The factory team would still be there since they are here for exposure. That money is peanuts or not critical for most of these elite riders, whereas it is critical for full privateers like Wilson, Hahn, Weimer, Mookie and most of the guys in the night show. For me any privateer making the night show should get a flat 2k, and for instance 5k for a main. With a 85k pay out just in feld bonus for a 17 round season, then we could see something "fair".

Second thing; a schedule that goes back and forth across such a huge country is beyond the ecological impact really weird economically. I am sure there is a way to cut the mileage by 4, and so the transportation costs. That may help the outdoors too, and more importantly the privateers.
hvaughn88 wrote:
No. I refuse to ever be on board with taking win money away from someone just because they are better then the rest of the field.
Ah sorry I re read and saw I didnt write it clearly. I was talking about feld bonus. I just can't believe a top 1 top 12 is making 500k to 5m, whereas top privateers in main are almost paying to be there. It is like a 50 people company where the top management takes it all, whilst the rest of the employee are given peanuts. Albertson, Weimer, Mookie and at least 10 more guys should make a decent living racing to save for the future, that is all i wanted to say. Nobody want a winner takes all system , especially the parents who may put the money on college rather than dirt bikes.
eb313
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1/23/2017 5:02pm
Now you snowflakes want to socialize SX and MX? It's worse than I thought........
lostboy819
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1/23/2017 5:10pm
Question wrote:
Ah sorry I re read and saw I didnt write it clearly. I was talking about feld bonus. I just can't believe a top 1 top...
Ah sorry I re read and saw I didnt write it clearly. I was talking about feld bonus. I just can't believe a top 1 top 12 is making 500k to 5m, whereas top privateers in main are almost paying to be there. It is like a 50 people company where the top management takes it all, whilst the rest of the employee are given peanuts. Albertson, Weimer, Mookie and at least 10 more guys should make a decent living racing to save for the future, that is all i wanted to say. Nobody want a winner takes all system , especially the parents who may put the money on college rather than dirt bikes.
Its not a winner take all system and Albertson, Weimer, Mookie are making a decent living, now lets talk about how little you make.
1/23/2017 5:15pm
eb313 wrote:
Now you snowflakes want to socialize SX and MX? It's worse than I thought........
My first thought too. When a Journeyman (factory rider) gets hurt does a pivateer (apprentice) fill in? And would they call him a scab? PC disclosure: All in fun cardholders.
eb313
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1/23/2017 5:22pm
eb313 wrote:
Now you snowflakes want to socialize SX and MX? It's worse than I thought........
My first thought too. When a Journeyman (factory rider) gets hurt does a pivateer (apprentice) fill in? And would they call him a scab? PC disclosure...
My first thought too. When a Journeyman (factory rider) gets hurt does a pivateer (apprentice) fill in? And would they call him a scab? PC disclosure: All in fun cardholders.
To be clear, my point wasn't about "unions", it was about the bitching and whining over who is making how much and how the "wealth needs to be redistributed". When are these people going to stop looking for everything to be "fair"? Life is hard cupcakes, it's harder when you are weak and lazy!
hillbilly
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1/23/2017 5:29pm
500guy wrote:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY3XwH5UAAAlPr5.jpg[/img]
I laughed.
ACBraap
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1/23/2017 5:30pm
Question wrote:
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory...
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory contract (let us say team with more than a $2m?). The factory team would still be there since they are here for exposure. That money is peanuts or not critical for most of these elite riders, whereas it is critical for full privateers like Wilson, Hahn, Weimer, Mookie and most of the guys in the night show. For me any privateer making the night show should get a flat 2k, and for instance 5k for a main. With a 85k pay out just in feld bonus for a 17 round season, then we could see something "fair".

Second thing; a schedule that goes back and forth across such a huge country is beyond the ecological impact really weird economically. I am sure there is a way to cut the mileage by 4, and so the transportation costs. That may help the outdoors too, and more importantly the privateers.
The schedule is dictated by stadium availability not driving convenience. I wouldn't expect that to change until Feld owns the stadiums. Which won't happen as long as taxpayers can be suckered into paying for them, but I digress.

Think about the financial ecosystem of supercross. If you think someone should make more, then either you need a bigger pie, or everyone has to settle for smaller pieces. Now I agree that riders should make more. I think jumping a rhythm section consistently, where an error could seriously injure, if not kill you, is worth more than shooting a free throw. But as a fan, I don't feel like I need to pay higher ticket prices, higher bike prices, etc. to fund it. And I'll also bet that nobody involved in supercross currently wants to take less $ so that someone else can get more. So you're left with the option of growing the pie instead. That's a tough job unless you have everyone on board, and Feld seems happy as is. My prediction - no change.
GuyB
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1/23/2017 5:34pm
This segment brought to you by Orville Redenbacher.
JustMX
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1/23/2017 6:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/23/2017 6:14pm
It is cool that Bernie sanders decided instead of lurking to start posting new topics
151
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1/23/2017 7:10pm
In regards to most major modern industries I am anti union. But Motocross and Supercross racers could and certainly need to organise.

Check out the pro bull riders tour and the history of their unionizing.

Basically before they made jack, and after they make millions.
Question
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1/24/2017 6:19am
Question wrote:
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory...
The issue is the top 15 in 450, and the top 5 per coast in 250 should get no or little bonus since they have factory contract (let us say team with more than a $2m?). The factory team would still be there since they are here for exposure. That money is peanuts or not critical for most of these elite riders, whereas it is critical for full privateers like Wilson, Hahn, Weimer, Mookie and most of the guys in the night show. For me any privateer making the night show should get a flat 2k, and for instance 5k for a main. With a 85k pay out just in feld bonus for a 17 round season, then we could see something "fair".

Second thing; a schedule that goes back and forth across such a huge country is beyond the ecological impact really weird economically. I am sure there is a way to cut the mileage by 4, and so the transportation costs. That may help the outdoors too, and more importantly the privateers.
ACBraap wrote:
The schedule is dictated by stadium availability not driving convenience. I wouldn't expect that to change until Feld owns the stadiums. Which won't happen as long...
The schedule is dictated by stadium availability not driving convenience. I wouldn't expect that to change until Feld owns the stadiums. Which won't happen as long as taxpayers can be suckered into paying for them, but I digress.

Think about the financial ecosystem of supercross. If you think someone should make more, then either you need a bigger pie, or everyone has to settle for smaller pieces. Now I agree that riders should make more. I think jumping a rhythm section consistently, where an error could seriously injure, if not kill you, is worth more than shooting a free throw. But as a fan, I don't feel like I need to pay higher ticket prices, higher bike prices, etc. to fund it. And I'll also bet that nobody involved in supercross currently wants to take less $ so that someone else can get more. So you're left with the option of growing the pie instead. That's a tough job unless you have everyone on board, and Feld seems happy as is. My prediction - no change.
Thanks

Ecosystem: will never grow. In a bcg matrix this sport is half between cash cow and dog (declining). Market growth, profit or other kpis like new customers are clearly not like in the 80s.

Stadium availability/schedule: no doubt something to look at more closely in the future, no stadium is forever (I.e. coliseum). That said the transportation cost to run the west coast is peanuts vs the east or the complete series.

Question
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1/24/2017 6:35am
Question wrote:
Ah sorry I re read and saw I didnt write it clearly. I was talking about feld bonus. I just can't believe a top 1 top...
Ah sorry I re read and saw I didnt write it clearly. I was talking about feld bonus. I just can't believe a top 1 top 12 is making 500k to 5m, whereas top privateers in main are almost paying to be there. It is like a 50 people company where the top management takes it all, whilst the rest of the employee are given peanuts. Albertson, Weimer, Mookie and at least 10 more guys should make a decent living racing to save for the future, that is all i wanted to say. Nobody want a winner takes all system , especially the parents who may put the money on college rather than dirt bikes.
lostboy819 wrote:
Its not a winner take all system and Albertson, Weimer, Mookie are making a decent living, now lets talk about how little you make.
Why should it always be a dick contest, and what do you know about me, my past, present and future to make it personal?

I just think the money ratio between a top 5 guy and a top15-20 is higher nowadays than in the 80s and 90s. Feld bonuses could be more for privateers or rider insurances. An old article posted here was showing the top 10 making less than a million a year. On the other hand I knew guys making a living racing top 10 in the french championship at the same period. If everyone is happy that the amateurs scene is declining, also due to track closures, let it be and see a 20 riders MX1 field with a third of these riders paying their ride, personally I don't give a dam, that is just an opinion.
ACBraap
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1/24/2017 10:24am
First, call it an association, not a union. The U word has way too much negative baggage with it in the US.

The ultimate model IMO would be supercross and/or motocross as an organization owned by the riders themselves. I believe the PBR operates this way.
500guy
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1/24/2017 10:27am
ACBraap wrote:
First, call it an association, not a union. The U word has way too much negative baggage with it in the US. The ultimate model IMO...
First, call it an association, not a union. The U word has way too much negative baggage with it in the US.

The ultimate model IMO would be supercross and/or motocross as an organization owned by the riders themselves. I believe the PBR operates this way.
Like the American Motorcyclist Association?

I always wondered why they said protecting riders and their rights , it should also say except in racing.

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