Performance Enhancing Drugs

motoxxx599
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 8:03pm
If our sport doesn't test for them, what would stop a rider from doing them? There are millions of dollars on the line, so if they don't test, why not use them for getting an "edge"? There has been rumors for years in our sport of alleged use. So whose to say that half of the top 20 would have to drastically change their training regiment if testing was implemented? I know its expensive to test, but if we are a "real sport", then why should we not play by real sport rules?
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Outsider
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10/24/2011 1:54pm
I'm sure you'll get lots of informed opinions on this subject here... DryPinchSideways
Nicknku
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10/24/2011 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2011 2:03pm
EPO is being used. I would hope none of the top guys are using it, but if your trainer comes from a cycling background and knows that there is not current testing being implemented, it makes you wonder.
flarider
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10/24/2011 2:01pm
For clarification, define what you consider "performance enhancing drugs?"

The Shop

englishman
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10/24/2011 2:04pm
50 million threads on this already try the search feature .
stangkag
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10/24/2011 2:06pm
flarider wrote:
For clarification, define what you consider "performance enhancing drugs?"
Would these be drugs that enhance performance? And we have a winner!!!
SMITH201
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10/24/2011 2:07pm
Pingree said a while back that we would be suprised at the names of the riders that use PEDs.
Mod Killer
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10/24/2011 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2011 2:10pm
its pretty rampant. but heres my take on it. some stuff u should consider before judging these kids.

point 1:

if you are worried about the athletes health, you should consider this, the very nature of the sport is far more dangerous than any taboo PED when responsibly used.


point 2:

if you are worried about competitive balance you should consider these points...the athletes who are using, are only competing with each other. we are talking about the guys who are already doing anything and everything to improve themselves on raceday. they make every sacrifice necessary. the playing field is level for these individuals.

for those who arent using or cannot afford it, chances are extremely high that they arent already doing everything necessary. the majority of the field are extremely talented kids on a dirtbike, but have very little work ethic IMO. the majority think a couple 30 min motos at the track and the gym for an hour 3x a week is being a professional athlete. they arent even close. they get by on talent and a collective field that basically takes it all for granted. therefore, they have no right to complain about competitive inbalance until they begin to start sacrificing just a fraction of what riders at the sharp end of the field are willing too.

in conclusion:
those two points alone are reasons why any rumors or knowledge of PED's in MX need to be put to rest or swept under the rug. any complaints do not hold water and the majority of the public knows too little about "steroids" to have the kneejerk negative reactions that they do to the subject. the subject is ignored in this sport for good reason.
FlickitFlat
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10/24/2011 2:11pm
flarider wrote:
For clarification, define what you consider "performance enhancing drugs?"
Engine Ice and Vodka. WTF you think he is talking about? That blue pill beside your teeth glass?
Gym Briggs
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10/24/2011 2:11pm
Performance enhancing drugs aren't going to make you twist the throttle further. That's the beauty of our sport. No drug out there is going to make you the best. Thats something that either you have it or you don't!
Outsider
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10/24/2011 2:14pm
flarider wrote:
For clarification, define what you consider "performance enhancing drugs?"
Engine Ice and Vodka. WTF you think he is talking about? That blue pill beside your teeth glass?
HAR!
stangkag
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10/24/2011 2:19pm
Mod Killer wrote:
its pretty rampant. but heres my take on it. some stuff u should consider before judging these kids. point 1: if you are worried about the...
its pretty rampant. but heres my take on it. some stuff u should consider before judging these kids.

point 1:

if you are worried about the athletes health, you should consider this, the very nature of the sport is far more dangerous than any taboo PED when responsibly used.


point 2:

if you are worried about competitive balance you should consider these points...the athletes who are using, are only competing with each other. we are talking about the guys who are already doing anything and everything to improve themselves on raceday. they make every sacrifice necessary. the playing field is level for these individuals.

for those who arent using or cannot afford it, chances are extremely high that they arent already doing everything necessary. the majority of the field are extremely talented kids on a dirtbike, but have very little work ethic IMO. the majority think a couple 30 min motos at the track and the gym for an hour 3x a week is being a professional athlete. they arent even close. they get by on talent and a collective field that basically takes it all for granted. therefore, they have no right to complain about competitive inbalance until they begin to start sacrificing just a fraction of what riders at the sharp end of the field are willing too.

in conclusion:
those two points alone are reasons why any rumors or knowledge of PED's in MX need to be put to rest or swept under the rug. any complaints do not hold water and the majority of the public knows too little about "steroids" to have the kneejerk negative reactions that they do to the subject. the subject is ignored in this sport for good reason.
I couldnt agree more actually. If we really knew what these guys do to gain even an ounce of performance out of there bikes or bodies wed think they were crazy.

Im not so sure I want to know all the details about how they got to being so fast.

I know I will never be able to do what they do, or make the millions they make but I also dont workout year round like a mad man and push my body past its limits week in and week out or fling my body over huge 65 foot triples as fast as humanly possible. Nope not me, I ride for fun and enjoy watching MX and SX off the DVR all while speculating who should be doing what to win the race while im in the process of getting drunk Smile

Sue me, im a realist...

Its like the people that watch baseball and enjoy seeing guys hitting homers out of the ball park, but the second they realize that the batter is popping more than a mens daily vitamin they get all butt hurt. I cant hit home runs like they do, thats why they get paid the millions not us. Its there bodies, they know the risks so let them do what they want... End of story
ATKpilot99
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10/24/2011 2:19pm
Gym Briggs wrote:
Performance enhancing drugs aren't going to make you twist the throttle further. That's the beauty of our sport. No drug out there is going to make...
Performance enhancing drugs aren't going to make you twist the throttle further. That's the beauty of our sport. No drug out there is going to make you the best. Thats something that either you have it or you don't!
That's pretty much true in any sport. The guys who are the best will be the best regardless, they just have that extra edge. I would think in motocross it's EPO as has been mentioned already, for the endurance aspect. I'd actually be surprised if it was found that nobody uses it.
Mod Killer
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10/24/2011 2:19pm
Gym Briggs wrote:
Performance enhancing drugs aren't going to make you twist the throttle further. That's the beauty of our sport. No drug out there is going to make...
Performance enhancing drugs aren't going to make you twist the throttle further. That's the beauty of our sport. No drug out there is going to make you the best. Thats something that either you have it or you don't!
it aint gonna make you a more talented rider, but it will make you heal faster and avoid injury due to fatigue.



but then again, abuse it and you'll be retired by the age of 27 because of the toll its taken on your body.

but i dont fault anyone for that. its simply a measure of there competitiveness. sports, winning, competitive drive is all about sacrifice. nothing more.
stangkag
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10/24/2011 2:26pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2011 2:29pm
Gym Briggs wrote:
Performance enhancing drugs aren't going to make you twist the throttle further. That's the beauty of our sport. No drug out there is going to make...
Performance enhancing drugs aren't going to make you twist the throttle further. That's the beauty of our sport. No drug out there is going to make you the best. Thats something that either you have it or you don't!
Endurance my friend...Theres a reason these top guys can run the same lap times in the first lap as they do roughly 34-36 mins later...

I know 30 mins plus 2 laps would have me on a breathing machine. Especially twice in one day only a couple hours apart.

Im not knowledgeable on steroids or other drugs but there has to be stuff out there that keeps your strength up for endurance.

Runners like Ben Johnson comes to mind, who were busted for juice were usually found to be using winny.
It won't put extra water weight on you, you can't really bulk up on just winny alone (not major anyways), it increases RBC's (like all anabolics)...the pump happens with any anabolic that increases RBC's (that's where the pump comes from). it's fast acting, therefore leaves your system quickly..the only downside would be Joint pain.
flarider
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10/24/2011 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2011 2:29pm
There are many things some call a PED, and other things that are not considered PED's

Is an IV between motos or races a PED?
Is an antihistamine a PED?
Is pot a PED?

That is why I said to define what you consider a PED.

Are you talking "steroids" or other items?
Like what?
Deetsmx
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10/24/2011 2:28pm
Mod Killer wrote:
it aint gonna make you a more talented rider, but it will make you heal faster and avoid injury due to fatigue. but then again, abuse...
it aint gonna make you a more talented rider, but it will make you heal faster and avoid injury due to fatigue.



but then again, abuse it and you'll be retired by the age of 27 because of the toll its taken on your body.

but i dont fault anyone for that. its simply a measure of there competitiveness. sports, winning, competitive drive is all about sacrifice. nothing more.
Retire at the age of 27? I'll take that as a hint. I think they would be a big advantage especially if you can run the same pace the whole moto. How often do you see guys hang it out up front for a few laps and then drop anchor? Also, I know my pace isn't RV's pace, but I often find myself riding quicker on a track at the end of motos (or practice days) but 'm usually too tired to keep it going. It's almost like you just start flowing through the corners, hitting your lines right. If you could train in that zone more I think it would also improve your speed. I don't know if I explained it right or if it makes sense, but that's my opinion on it.
Mod Killer
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10/24/2011 2:28pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2011 7:00pm
stangkag wrote:
I couldnt agree more actually. If we really knew what these guys do to gain even an ounce of performance out of there bikes or bodies...
I couldnt agree more actually. If we really knew what these guys do to gain even an ounce of performance out of there bikes or bodies wed think they were crazy.

Im not so sure I want to know all the details about how they got to being so fast.

I know I will never be able to do what they do, or make the millions they make but I also dont workout year round like a mad man and push my body past its limits week in and week out or fling my body over huge 65 foot triples as fast as humanly possible. Nope not me, I ride for fun and enjoy watching MX and SX off the DVR all while speculating who should be doing what to win the race while im in the process of getting drunk Smile

Sue me, im a realist...

Its like the people that watch baseball and enjoy seeing guys hitting homers out of the ball park, but the second they realize that the batter is popping more than a mens daily vitamin they get all butt hurt. I cant hit home runs like they do, thats why they get paid the millions not us. Its there bodies, they know the risks so let them do what they want... End of story
cant compare mx to baseball.


the "competitive balance" & "health" aspects do not apply.

even the lowest paid baseball player has sacrificed more and works harder than 90% of the mx field. baseball and the likes are true metocracy's (sp). too much of mx is dependent on having rich parents or parents who were willing to sacrifice it all so their kid could make it thru the amateur ranks.

since the majority of the baseball players, by the nature of the sport and its competitors, are already workaholics, the competitive balance thing that i outlined doesnt apply. none of us should be surprised when we find out our favorite athlete is "using", but it doesnt mean it is justified. it isnt tested for in mx, so its not really against the rules is it? and only up until a couple years ago, it was legal in baseball. all the angst we put towards the ball players was just us projecting our own frustrations. we all should have known better. from 1990 on, we all turned a blind eye.

baseball is pretty easy on a persons body. the travel isnt. but the chances of the sport killing you at an early age or while competing are pretty much nil. so again, my health reasoning doesnt apply to baseball.



all that said, i get what you were trying to say.
mmcmx
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10/24/2011 2:29pm
PED's are good.
Mod Killer
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10/24/2011 2:31pm
flarider wrote:
There are many things some call a PED, and other things that are not considered PED's Is an IV between motos or races a PED? Is...
There are many things some call a PED, and other things that are not considered PED's

Is an IV between motos or races a PED?
Is an antihistamine a PED?
Is pot a PED?

That is why I said to define what you consider a PED.

Are you talking "steroids" or other items?
Like what?
IV's would be considered "taboo" despite their frequent use.

same with an antihistamine if used soley for the performance gains



i would hardly call pot a PED. it slows down the healing process and doesnt really help ambition a whole lot. (disclaimer: im not against pot or any drug for that matter...just dont think they help athletes)
Mod Killer
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10/24/2011 2:38pm
Deetsmx wrote:
Retire at the age of 27? I'll take that as a hint. I think they would be a big advantage especially if you can run the...
Retire at the age of 27? I'll take that as a hint. I think they would be a big advantage especially if you can run the same pace the whole moto. How often do you see guys hang it out up front for a few laps and then drop anchor? Also, I know my pace isn't RV's pace, but I often find myself riding quicker on a track at the end of motos (or practice days) but 'm usually too tired to keep it going. It's almost like you just start flowing through the corners, hitting your lines right. If you could train in that zone more I think it would also improve your speed. I don't know if I explained it right or if it makes sense, but that's my opinion on it.
you explained it fine. but anything and everything that you THINK helps you, also helps you get in that zone.

in my experience, the use of the taboo stuff is probably 90% mental. and that sums up life in general. i think the same guys would be out in front regardless. they just cant leave a stone un-turned. they are too competitive.

to be honest, a lot of the training i used to do didnt make me stronger, it made me think i was stronger. if i believed i had done everything in my power, it calmed me and helped me live in that zone or in the moment.




without the taboo stuff would a person be as dominant? would they have lost a couple of motos they shouldnt have won, or maybe a championship, had they all not been using, probably. but it wouldnt have hurt their legacy. they'd still be the legends they are. again, i dont hold it against anyone, in any sport.

its no different than if i found out someone was using a big bore (or traction control Smile ). i'd understand. i'd be all for them getting slapped on the wrist. but not condemned. they just want to win at all costs. isnt that what we ask of our hero's?
mattmatt300
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10/24/2011 2:38pm
i vote leave it alone. think about how many people see cycling as a big joke now after all the doping talk. last thing mx needs is a public doping scandal. lets move the sport forward not sling mud all over it
GrapeApe
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10/24/2011 2:43pm
flarider wrote:
There are many things some call a PED, and other things that are not considered PED's Is an IV between motos or races a PED? Is...
There are many things some call a PED, and other things that are not considered PED's

Is an IV between motos or races a PED?
Is an antihistamine a PED?
Is pot a PED?

That is why I said to define what you consider a PED.

Are you talking "steroids" or other items?
Like what?
Is the IV loaded with synthetic testosterone or being used to administer a blood transfusion, or just standard saline?

Pot is not performance enhancing, it is banned for other reasons.
mag23
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10/24/2011 3:04pm
Nicknku wrote:
EPO is being used. I would hope none of the top guys are using it, but if your trainer comes from a cycling background and knows...
EPO is being used. I would hope none of the top guys are using it, but if your trainer comes from a cycling background and knows that there is not current testing being implemented, it makes you wonder.
^ I didn't have the balls to say it... hopefully I'm wrong for thinkin it, but I doubt it
mag23
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10/24/2011 3:05pm
FIM doesn't test at MXdN?
flarider
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10/24/2011 3:06pm
Mod Killer wrote:
IV's would be considered "taboo" despite their frequent use. same with an antihistamine if used soley for the performance gains i would hardly call pot a...
IV's would be considered "taboo" despite their frequent use.

same with an antihistamine if used soley for the performance gains



i would hardly call pot a PED. it slows down the healing process and doesnt really help ambition a whole lot. (disclaimer: im not against pot or any drug for that matter...just dont think they help athletes)
But, some riders have claimed pot helps them mellow out and takes away their nerves before a race, and aids in concentration.

The validity can be argued all day, but if a rider believes it a benefit, then placebo takes affect.

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