Performance Enhancing Drugs

10/26/2011 2:31pm
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood test and ended up suspended for the season, attendance would suffer, so the risk for these folks that sanction and promote is far to great for them to go ahead and test.

I have spent enough on this sport in my lifetime, so I won't be paying for the tests. The sanctioning bodies should, but as I pointed out, they stand to lose, so it will never happen.
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10/26/2011 2:35pm
SuperMario wrote:
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood...
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood test and ended up suspended for the season, attendance would suffer, so the risk for these folks that sanction and promote is far to great for them to go ahead and test.

I have spent enough on this sport in my lifetime, so I won't be paying for the tests. The sanctioning bodies should, but as I pointed out, they stand to lose, so it will never happen.
Never look for something you're not prepared to find.

If you suspected there was a bear in your yard, and you went looking for it, you'd better have a gun, right?

Well, if you're going to look - really look - for PEDs in a sport, you'd better be prepared for the ramifications of finding them. And that's not just on the promoters, that's on everyone. Imagine a false positive, for example. It happens quite often. It's always headline news when a guy tests positive, but when it's reversed, it's back-page news. His reputation is ruined regardless.

So, what do you stand to gain by testing? And what do you stand to lose?

Pandora's Box (well, technically, jar...).
Sherwood
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10/26/2011 2:36pm
Comparing a dietary change to an injection might be the dumbest thing I've seen here for a long time.
Nerd
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10/26/2011 2:36pm
Sherwood wrote:
Comparing a dietary change to an injection might be the dumbest thing I've seen here for a long time.
At least until you just piped up.

The Shop

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10/26/2011 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 2:46pm
SuperMario wrote:
Where is DC to say that they will be testing everyone during the 2012 AMA Outdoor Series, with blood tests? I can handle the truth Mod...
Where is DC to say that they will be testing everyone during the 2012 AMA Outdoor Series, with blood tests?

I can handle the truth Mod Killer, but I don't think those who benefit from these PED takers the most can, because their little meal tickets would be gone.
dont put this on DC (commercial rights holder). its not his responsibility. his job is to secure venues and promote the event.

its the AMA's (sanctioning body) job to write and enforce the rules.

sanctioning body's and promoters have two entirely different responsibilities and skill sets. know their roles before placing responsibility. we gotta start thinking more before throwing out judgements or opinions.


as for you comment about meal tickets....those on the inside already know whats up. they know the truth and they have come to grips with it. they understand. its the public that cant handle it. just ask the last guy to get dq'd from the TDF.
10/26/2011 2:42pm
SuperMario wrote:
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood...
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood test and ended up suspended for the season, attendance would suffer, so the risk for these folks that sanction and promote is far to great for them to go ahead and test.

I have spent enough on this sport in my lifetime, so I won't be paying for the tests. The sanctioning bodies should, but as I pointed out, they stand to lose, so it will never happen.
Nerd wrote:
Never look for something you're not prepared to find. If you suspected there was a bear in your yard, and you went looking for it, you'd...
Never look for something you're not prepared to find.

If you suspected there was a bear in your yard, and you went looking for it, you'd better have a gun, right?

Well, if you're going to look - really look - for PEDs in a sport, you'd better be prepared for the ramifications of finding them. And that's not just on the promoters, that's on everyone. Imagine a false positive, for example. It happens quite often. It's always headline news when a guy tests positive, but when it's reversed, it's back-page news. His reputation is ruined regardless.

So, what do you stand to gain by testing? And what do you stand to lose?

Pandora's Box (well, technically, jar...).
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world

That would make it very credible

If they turn out to be using, then its time to clean things up, isn't it?

Baseball seems to have overcome strikes and PED use, hasn't it? Speaking of which, I need to get some mix and a bag of chips for game 6
Sherwood
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10/26/2011 2:43pm
Sherwood wrote:
Comparing a dietary change to an injection might be the dumbest thing I've seen here for a long time.
Nerd wrote:
At least until you just piped up.
Not in the mood to argue semantics with someone that feels the person who argues the longest wins.
ATKpilot99
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10/26/2011 2:44pm
SuperMario wrote:
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood...
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood test and ended up suspended for the season, attendance would suffer, so the risk for these folks that sanction and promote is far to great for them to go ahead and test.

I have spent enough on this sport in my lifetime, so I won't be paying for the tests. The sanctioning bodies should, but as I pointed out, they stand to lose, so it will never happen.
Nerd wrote:
Never look for something you're not prepared to find. If you suspected there was a bear in your yard, and you went looking for it, you'd...
Never look for something you're not prepared to find.

If you suspected there was a bear in your yard, and you went looking for it, you'd better have a gun, right?

Well, if you're going to look - really look - for PEDs in a sport, you'd better be prepared for the ramifications of finding them. And that's not just on the promoters, that's on everyone. Imagine a false positive, for example. It happens quite often. It's always headline news when a guy tests positive, but when it's reversed, it's back-page news. His reputation is ruined regardless.

So, what do you stand to gain by testing? And what do you stand to lose?

Pandora's Box (well, technically, jar...).
SuperMario wrote:
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world That would...
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world

That would make it very credible

If they turn out to be using, then its time to clean things up, isn't it?

Baseball seems to have overcome strikes and PED use, hasn't it? Speaking of which, I need to get some mix and a bag of chips for game 6
Game 6 is postponed till tomorrow.
10/26/2011 2:44pm
SuperMario wrote:
Where is DC to say that they will be testing everyone during the 2012 AMA Outdoor Series, with blood tests? I can handle the truth Mod...
Where is DC to say that they will be testing everyone during the 2012 AMA Outdoor Series, with blood tests?

I can handle the truth Mod Killer, but I don't think those who benefit from these PED takers the most can, because their little meal tickets would be gone.
Mod Killer wrote:
dont put this on DC (commercial rights holder). its not his responsibility. his job is to secure venues and promote the event. its the AMA's (sanctioning...
dont put this on DC (commercial rights holder). its not his responsibility. his job is to secure venues and promote the event.

its the AMA's (sanctioning body) job to write and enforce the rules.

sanctioning body's and promoters have two entirely different responsibilities and skill sets. know their roles before placing responsibility. we gotta start thinking more before throwing out judgements or opinions.


as for you comment about meal tickets....those on the inside already know whats up. they know the truth and they have come to grips with it. they understand. its the public that cant handle it. just ask the last guy to get dq'd from the TDF.
But doesn't he produce a magazine dedicated to promoting the "Lifestyle"?

Just saying....
Mod Killer
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10/26/2011 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 4:03pm
SuperMario wrote:
But doesn't he produce a magazine dedicated to promoting the "Lifestyle"?

Just saying....
yep. the lifestyle the public wants to read about. that is how all media works. they give us what we ask for, not the other way around. its a huge misconception to think that they influence us more than we influence them. (for clarification on this, i suggest you rent George Cloony's "Good Nite and Good Luck")

his magazine wouldnt sell if he sold the real lifestyle.

the lifestyle of the champs is extremely boring and rigorous and would never sell. and the lifestyle of the rest is far too much of a party for joe-public to accept or handle. not that u and i are any different. we just hold these athletes to ridiculously higher standards than ourselves for some asinine reason. and claim its cause they are our kids role models or some other bullshit like that. if your less of an influence on your kid than any other factor in his/hers life, you got bigger issues than what some mx'er does in his private life.
10/26/2011 2:51pm
I know blood doping has been a factor in racing

Remember Chads "stomach cramps" a few years ago, thats the effect of coming off blood doping
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10/26/2011 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 3:01pm
SuperMario wrote:
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world That would...
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world

That would make it very credible

If they turn out to be using, then its time to clean things up, isn't it?

Baseball seems to have overcome strikes and PED use, hasn't it? Speaking of which, I need to get some mix and a bag of chips for game 6
why would it make it more credible?

why clean things up? do you go to your local gym and try and clean that place up? this sport, or all sports for that matter are simply a reflection of society. we gotta look in the mirror before we start casting shadows of judgement.


cant compare baseball to mx. go read some of my earlier posts as to why. the very nature of each sport prevents the two from being argued parallel to each other in your context. football and mx are much more similar.
Sherwood
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10/26/2011 2:53pm
I know blood doping has been a factor in racing Remember Chads "stomach cramps" a few years ago, thats the effect of coming off blood doping...
I know blood doping has been a factor in racing

Remember Chads "stomach cramps" a few years ago, thats the effect of coming off blood doping
It can also be the result of a metal allergy or a thousand other things.
Nerd
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10/26/2011 2:53pm
Sherwood wrote:
Comparing a dietary change to an injection might be the dumbest thing I've seen here for a long time.
Nerd wrote:
At least until you just piped up.
Sherwood wrote:
Not in the mood to argue semantics with someone that feels the person who argues the longest wins.
Someone "who". You're welcome.
Sherwood
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10/26/2011 2:54pm
SuperMario wrote:
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world That would...
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world

That would make it very credible

If they turn out to be using, then its time to clean things up, isn't it?

Baseball seems to have overcome strikes and PED use, hasn't it? Speaking of which, I need to get some mix and a bag of chips for game 6
Mod Killer wrote:
why would it make it more credible? why clean things up? do you go to your local gym and try and clean that place up? this...
why would it make it more credible?

why clean things up? do you go to your local gym and try and clean that place up? this sport, or all sports for that matter are simply a reflection of society. we gotta look in the mirror before we start casting shadows of judgement.


cant compare baseball to mx. go read some of my earlier posts as to why. the very nature of each sport prevents the two from being argued parallel to each other in your context. football and mx are much more similar.
You can't compare baseball to mx but you can compare the local gym to mx?
Nerd
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10/26/2011 2:55pm
SuperMario wrote:
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood...
There are people that need these guys, clean or not to make a buck, but if suddenly a majority of the top ten failed a blood test and ended up suspended for the season, attendance would suffer, so the risk for these folks that sanction and promote is far to great for them to go ahead and test.

I have spent enough on this sport in my lifetime, so I won't be paying for the tests. The sanctioning bodies should, but as I pointed out, they stand to lose, so it will never happen.
Nerd wrote:
Never look for something you're not prepared to find. If you suspected there was a bear in your yard, and you went looking for it, you'd...
Never look for something you're not prepared to find.

If you suspected there was a bear in your yard, and you went looking for it, you'd better have a gun, right?

Well, if you're going to look - really look - for PEDs in a sport, you'd better be prepared for the ramifications of finding them. And that's not just on the promoters, that's on everyone. Imagine a false positive, for example. It happens quite often. It's always headline news when a guy tests positive, but when it's reversed, it's back-page news. His reputation is ruined regardless.

So, what do you stand to gain by testing? And what do you stand to lose?

Pandora's Box (well, technically, jar...).
SuperMario wrote:
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world That would...
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world

That would make it very credible

If they turn out to be using, then its time to clean things up, isn't it?

Baseball seems to have overcome strikes and PED use, hasn't it? Speaking of which, I need to get some mix and a bag of chips for game 6
Almost no one who isn't already a fan of the sport even realizes that these guys are athletes at all in the first place.

If anything, someone getting caught with PEDs in MX would actually LEGITIMIZE the sport as an athletic endeavor, not vice versa.

And no, baseball hasn't overcome anything. It was at its most popular in recent times when Sosa and McGuire were 'roided up and ripping homers going for the record.

Truth.
Sherwood
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10/26/2011 2:55pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 2:56pm
Nerd wrote:
At least until you just piped up.
Sherwood wrote:
Not in the mood to argue semantics with someone that feels the person who argues the longest wins.
Nerd wrote:
Someone "who". You're welcome.
You take to much speed today nerd?
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10/26/2011 2:58pm
Sherwood wrote:
You can't compare baseball to mx but you can compare the local gym to mx?
context.
10/26/2011 3:01pm
SuperMario wrote:
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world That would...
If they are clean, then the sport gains that look at how our athletes are the healtist, most drug free athletes in the world

That would make it very credible

If they turn out to be using, then its time to clean things up, isn't it?

Baseball seems to have overcome strikes and PED use, hasn't it? Speaking of which, I need to get some mix and a bag of chips for game 6
Mod Killer wrote:
why would it make it more credible? why clean things up? do you go to your local gym and try and clean that place up? this...
why would it make it more credible?

why clean things up? do you go to your local gym and try and clean that place up? this sport, or all sports for that matter are simply a reflection of society. we gotta look in the mirror before we start casting shadows of judgement.


cant compare baseball to mx. go read some of my earlier posts as to why. the very nature of each sport prevents the two from being argued parallel to each other in your context. football and mx are much more similar.
I read all the posts.

Years ago I knew two doorman at a local bar that also trained at the same gym I did in the off season, who insisted they could put 20 lbs of muscle on me over the winter. These were two guys that had zero neck, just a head that sat on their shoulders. Today they are both already on the other side of the grass, while I am still alive and kicking, despite having smoked for over 35 years.

I knew they were taking drugs to get that big, but of course drugs are the craze to solve and fix everything anymore it seems.

But they and many in the sports crowd would bag on me for smoking...Go figure, I outlived the gym rats....lol
Cygnus
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10/26/2011 3:02pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 3:02pm
I still cant believe the blinders some fans have on this topic. Its not going to change. Like I said earlier I know local riders are using PED's to Qualify for LL's. Get over all it you holier than thou"s. My favorite rider is TC. Like Mom said If it's not illegal than it's not cheating.
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10/26/2011 3:04pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 3:06pm
SuperMario wrote:
I read all the posts. Years ago I knew two doorman at a local bar that also trained at the same gym I did in the...
I read all the posts.

Years ago I knew two doorman at a local bar that also trained at the same gym I did in the off season, who insisted they could put 20 lbs of muscle on me over the winter. These were two guys that had zero neck, just a head that sat on their shoulders. Today they are both already on the other side of the grass, while I am still alive and kicking, despite having smoked for over 35 years.

I knew they were taking drugs to get that big, but of course drugs are the craze to solve and fix everything anymore it seems.

But they and many in the sports crowd would bag on me for smoking...Go figure, I outlived the gym rats....lol
HA!

youre seeing the contradictions. like i said to creshvin earlier, now you too are also beginning to get a real grasp of this whole discussion.
10/26/2011 3:07pm
SuperMario wrote:
I read all the posts. Years ago I knew two doorman at a local bar that also trained at the same gym I did in the...
I read all the posts.

Years ago I knew two doorman at a local bar that also trained at the same gym I did in the off season, who insisted they could put 20 lbs of muscle on me over the winter. These were two guys that had zero neck, just a head that sat on their shoulders. Today they are both already on the other side of the grass, while I am still alive and kicking, despite having smoked for over 35 years.

I knew they were taking drugs to get that big, but of course drugs are the craze to solve and fix everything anymore it seems.

But they and many in the sports crowd would bag on me for smoking...Go figure, I outlived the gym rats....lol
Mod Killer wrote:
HA!

youre seeing the contradictions. like i said to creshvin earlier, now you too are also beginning to get a real grasp of this whole discussion.
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right?

Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing it make it right?

No, but it seems that is the sad reality of this society, and it is a really really sad reflection on this sport that used to pride itself in claiming to be second to World Cup soccer as far as being physically demanding.
Mod Killer
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10/26/2011 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 3:21pm
SuperMario wrote:
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right? Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing...
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right?

Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing it make it right?

No, but it seems that is the sad reality of this society, and it is a really really sad reflection on this sport that used to pride itself in claiming to be second to World Cup soccer as far as being physically demanding.
aaaaand now youve taken two steps back.

PED use doesnt in any way shape or form discredit the physical demands of this sport. it increases its credibility. and if you think they arent using PED's in soccer, then you havent read all the posts (im joking). its everywhere. we need to get past this romantic and highly hypocritical stance against PED's in our beloved sports.

like nerd so perfectly articulated earlier, their is no PED for determination. the guys using PED's are the most determined of all individuals. they are not slackers, they are the opposite of that. they are the hardest working and most competitive this sport has.

when you have athletes with the mindset of types like peyton manning and lance armstrong, that is how your sport has credibility. RC didnt hurt this sport, he gave it credibility. he opened the doors for workaholics like dungey who never would have been given a shot 15 years ago.




jumping out of a plane without a parachute isnt right or wrong. you must take everything into consideration. its not so black and white. if the plane has a missle heading its way, i'd say jumping is the smart thing to do.
10/26/2011 3:14pm
EPO (erythropoietin) is a natural hormone and a blood booster. It is also available as a pharmaceutical.
The use of this artificial form, or recombinant EPO, to enhance performance by boosting endurance, is
prohibited.
Historically, the EPO test at the Olympics (2000 to 2006) was done on a pair of urine and blood samples
collected from the athlete at the same time. The urine test identifies the prohibited substance, therefore it
is called a direct test. In contrast, the blood test is called an indirect test because it does not show the
presence of recombinant EPO. Instead, it shows the “footprints” of drug use, in other words its impact on
multiple lab readings on the blood. The readings are used to calculate a score which indicates whether
the person is on a prohibited blood booster (“on score”) or recently stopped taking it (“off score”). Since
2002, EPO tests done by U.S. sports authorities have consisted of only the urine test.
At first the only urine EPO test was the French test, also known as IEF (isoelectric focusing)

test. Soon researchers, in their quest for improvement, began exploring alternatives. One example is
a different way of separating recombinant from natural EPO, using an SDS (sodium dodecyl sulfate) gel
instead of an IEF gel

http://www.wada-ama.org/
Cygnus
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10/26/2011 3:17pm
SuperMario wrote:
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right? Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing...
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right?

Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing it make it right?

No, but it seems that is the sad reality of this society, and it is a really really sad reflection on this sport that used to pride itself in claiming to be second to World Cup soccer as far as being physically demanding.
so you think all of those soccer players are PED free??
10/26/2011 3:17pm
I haven't stepped backwards..............a fucking druggie is a druggie........whatever kind of sport and whatever kind of drug.

There was probably nobody more determined then Ayrton Senna in F-1 and he was a skinny kid when he came in but he trained his ass off, and ate a diet that most could never handle, yet there has NEVER been any talk of anyone in auto racing using drugs to enhamce their performance.

That is credible.
10/26/2011 3:18pm
SuperMario wrote:
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right? Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing...
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right?

Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing it make it right?

No, but it seems that is the sad reality of this society, and it is a really really sad reflection on this sport that used to pride itself in claiming to be second to World Cup soccer as far as being physically demanding.
Cygnus wrote:
so you think all of those soccer players are PED free??
I don't watch soccer.......I don't have any interest in that sport, just the same as I have zero interest in hockey, despite being from Canada.
Homey55
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10/26/2011 3:21pm
Using the TDF as a parallel, I think most people realize that all those guys are on some sort of drugs. They have scandal after scandal every year and it has degraded the sport, in the fan's eye. As a fan of the sport of MX/SX, I would hate to see people start to get busted for drugs. Our sport is so small as it is and if it got out that all the top riders were "cheating" the networks would drop us like a rock and the fans would turn their backs on the people they idolized whether they were guilty or not.

I don't have any inside info and I don't even want to speculate, but as a fan, I just don't want to "go there" and ruin our sport. I really am dissappointed to see people make accusations without proof of other top guys "cheating" as that hurts the sport just as bad.

There is also nothing wrong with idolizing a top MX/SX rider. You can have more than 1 idol as far as I know Smile
Cygnus
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10/26/2011 3:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2011 3:26pm
SuperMario wrote:
I haven't stepped backwards..............a fucking druggie is a druggie........whatever kind of sport and whatever kind of drug. There was probably nobody more determined then Ayrton Senna...
I haven't stepped backwards..............a fucking druggie is a druggie........whatever kind of sport and whatever kind of drug.

There was probably nobody more determined then Ayrton Senna in F-1 and he was a skinny kid when he came in but he trained his ass off, and ate a diet that most could never handle, yet there has NEVER been any talk of anyone in auto racing using drugs to enhamce their performance.

That is credible.
You sir are a fucking druggie whether you like it or not too. Nicotine is a fucking drug, dumbass.
Cygnus
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10/26/2011 3:25pm
SuperMario wrote:
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right? Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing...
Does taking drugs just because everybody else is doing it make it right?

Does jumping out of planes without a chute because everyone else is doing it make it right?

No, but it seems that is the sad reality of this society, and it is a really really sad reflection on this sport that used to pride itself in claiming to be second to World Cup soccer as far as being physically demanding.
Cygnus wrote:
so you think all of those soccer players are PED free??
SuperMario wrote:
I don't watch soccer.......I don't have any interest in that sport, just the same as I have zero interest in hockey, despite being from Canada.
I think Cigarettes make people stupid. seriously!

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