Performance Enhancing Drugs

Nerd
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10/25/2011 3:19pm
UpTiTe wrote:
I find it pointless to continue arguing on line. I do have two question for you. You say steroids wont help a rider performance, but only...
I find it pointless to continue arguing on line. I do have two question for you. You say steroids wont help a rider performance, but only with recovery from an injury. What steroid helps with injury recovery? Do your opinions come from Google or from training and actually wittnessing its effects?
Sunhouse wrote:
"What steroid helps with injury recovery?" are you saying there´s only one steroid that could help an athlete back to shape after a heavy injury? I...
"What steroid helps with injury recovery?"
are you saying there´s only one steroid that could help an athlete back to shape after a heavy injury? I say there´s plenty of them out there that could do the job of getting someone back from a long time off.

My opinions are not from google, I´ll leave it at that.
UpTiTe wrote:
Not saying that thanks. You told me what I neededto know, thanks.
While not technically a "steroid", HGH can help with injury recovery.

Cortisone, however, is a steroid, and it has obvious benefits with injuries, whether allowing someone to perform while injured or helping them to heal from an injury.
Nerd
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10/25/2011 3:27pm
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all:

The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some people have imbalances and make too little, or make too much - ESPECIALLY people who have had head injuries, because the brain stem controls this. One of the main FDA-approved reasons for prescribing HGH is repeated head trauma in your medical history.

Obviously, racers have this. All of them.

So racers can pretty much all, legally, get HGH. That's number one. Prescribed, by a doctor. And if you have a prescription, and you present it, even if they catch you in the IOC, you're allowed to have this substance.

Number two: If a 19-year-old that you're racing against has an HGH level of X, and you are 29 and your HGH level is 1/2 of the 19-year-old's, is it really "cheating" to supplement your HGH to his level so you're on a level playing field?

Remember, this is the definition of "cheat":
Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.

Supplementing your HGH to a younger person's level, who you are racing against, is not gaining any sort of advantage. It's taking away the other person's advantage so you're on a level playing field.

So what's the big deal, anyway?
mom241
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10/25/2011 3:31pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2011 6:47pm
SuperMario wrote:
You know what it says to me when Trey wins without a PDE?

You raised a fine boy........thats what it says!!
Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with "all the top guys are doing it" or "if they train with a cycling guy they're cheating".
ocscottie
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10/25/2011 3:31pm
Have you guys seen how the NFL keeps saying they are going to start testing for HGH? but keep putting it off.

The Shop

ATKpilot99
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10/25/2011 3:35pm
ocscottie wrote:
Have you guys seen how the NFL keeps saying they are going to start testing for HGH? but keep putting it off.
Yeah that could be an issue with the NFL. Maybe a can of worms they don't want to open.
Nerd
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10/25/2011 3:38pm
SuperMario wrote:
You know what it says to me when Trey wins without a PDE?

You raised a fine boy........thats what it says!!
mom241 wrote:
Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with...
Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with "all the top guys are doing it" or "if they train with a cycling guy they're cheating".
You know what matters more than training that few people talk about?

Diet.

The fuel you put in your body.

That's the big key to cyclists as trainers, they know how to fuel a body.
Sunhouse
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10/25/2011 3:41pm
Nerd wrote:
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all: The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some...
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all:

The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some people have imbalances and make too little, or make too much - ESPECIALLY people who have had head injuries, because the brain stem controls this. One of the main FDA-approved reasons for prescribing HGH is repeated head trauma in your medical history.

Obviously, racers have this. All of them.

So racers can pretty much all, legally, get HGH. That's number one. Prescribed, by a doctor. And if you have a prescription, and you present it, even if they catch you in the IOC, you're allowed to have this substance.

Number two: If a 19-year-old that you're racing against has an HGH level of X, and you are 29 and your HGH level is 1/2 of the 19-year-old's, is it really "cheating" to supplement your HGH to his level so you're on a level playing field?

Remember, this is the definition of "cheat":
Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.

Supplementing your HGH to a younger person's level, who you are racing against, is not gaining any sort of advantage. It's taking away the other person's advantage so you're on a level playing field.

So what's the big deal, anyway?
That is the start of a very long discussion which will probably come down an individual sense of what moral values are.
Personally I would say it is cheating unless there was a drug which could somehow give 19 year olds (for example) the experience a 29 year has.

There are so many variables that come in to play, but IMO it comes down to altering or enhancing your natural performance, which to me is cheating, IF there are rules that is.
10/25/2011 3:51pm
SuperMario wrote:
You know what it says to me when Trey wins without a PDE?

You raised a fine boy........thats what it says!!
mom241 wrote:
Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with...
Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with "all the top guys are doing it" or "if they train with a cycling guy they're cheating".
I was certain sure that Trey wasn't using them, what I am saying is if there are racers using them they should be outed by the sport.

You would have to have read Super Hunky's book to understand what the industry did to him for exposing the fact that many racers back in the 70's were smoking pot before a race. They literally blacklisted him for doing that article. A friend from school had bought me that issue for Christmas, and when my parents saw it, they took it away, as they didn't want me to get involved in drugs, but it also almost kept me from ever getting to race, since my parents saw the MX crowd as potheads because of that.

I lost all respect for the Baseball players that admitted to being "juiced" it would be really interesting for blood testing to be introduced effect Jan 1 2012 and see if anybody fails.
10/25/2011 3:54pm
Nerd wrote:
You know what matters more than training that few people talk about? Diet. The fuel you put in your body. That's the big key to cyclists...
You know what matters more than training that few people talk about?

Diet.

The fuel you put in your body.

That's the big key to cyclists as trainers, they know how to fuel a body.
I read "Eat To Win" way back when it came out, and that was in the 80's and he was on the right track then already, and it did make a huge difference for myself, as far as racing Hare Scrambles went and for recovery too.
UpTiTe
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10/25/2011 5:02pm
Sunhouse wrote:
"What steroid helps with injury recovery?" are you saying there´s only one steroid that could help an athlete back to shape after a heavy injury? I...
"What steroid helps with injury recovery?"
are you saying there´s only one steroid that could help an athlete back to shape after a heavy injury? I say there´s plenty of them out there that could do the job of getting someone back from a long time off.

My opinions are not from google, I´ll leave it at that.
UpTiTe wrote:
Not saying that thanks. You told me what I neededto know, thanks.
Nerd wrote:
While not technically a "steroid", HGH can help with injury recovery. Cortisone, however, is a steroid, and it has obvious benefits with injuries, whether allowing someone...
While not technically a "steroid", HGH can help with injury recovery.

Cortisone, however, is a steroid, and it has obvious benefits with injuries, whether allowing someone to perform while injured or helping them to heal from an injury.
Thats what I was getting at.
UpTiTe
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10/25/2011 5:04pm
SuperMario wrote:
You know what it says to me when Trey wins without a PDE?

You raised a fine boy........thats what it says!!
mom241 wrote:
Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with...
Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with "all the top guys are doing it" or "if they train with a cycling guy they're cheating".
Nerd wrote:
You know what matters more than training that few people talk about? Diet. The fuel you put in your body. That's the big key to cyclists...
You know what matters more than training that few people talk about?

Diet.

The fuel you put in your body.

That's the big key to cyclists as trainers, they know how to fuel a body.
And rest. Rest, actually sitting and letting your body rest is way under rated in the world of MX.
Nerd
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10/25/2011 5:10pm
Nerd wrote:
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all: The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some...
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all:

The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some people have imbalances and make too little, or make too much - ESPECIALLY people who have had head injuries, because the brain stem controls this. One of the main FDA-approved reasons for prescribing HGH is repeated head trauma in your medical history.

Obviously, racers have this. All of them.

So racers can pretty much all, legally, get HGH. That's number one. Prescribed, by a doctor. And if you have a prescription, and you present it, even if they catch you in the IOC, you're allowed to have this substance.

Number two: If a 19-year-old that you're racing against has an HGH level of X, and you are 29 and your HGH level is 1/2 of the 19-year-old's, is it really "cheating" to supplement your HGH to his level so you're on a level playing field?

Remember, this is the definition of "cheat":
Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.

Supplementing your HGH to a younger person's level, who you are racing against, is not gaining any sort of advantage. It's taking away the other person's advantage so you're on a level playing field.

So what's the big deal, anyway?
Sunhouse wrote:
That is the start of a very long discussion which will probably come down an individual sense of what moral values are. Personally I would say...
That is the start of a very long discussion which will probably come down an individual sense of what moral values are.
Personally I would say it is cheating unless there was a drug which could somehow give 19 year olds (for example) the experience a 29 year has.

There are so many variables that come in to play, but IMO it comes down to altering or enhancing your natural performance, which to me is cheating, IF there are rules that is.
Well, if we want equality so much, we should probably take away factory bikes, too. And trainers. Not everyone can afford a trainer, right?

Just saying, the sport is full of unfair advantages. Seems silly to focus on this one, which we don't even know for sure the extent.
mom241
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10/25/2011 6:48pm
mom241 wrote:
Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with...
Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm not saying no one is using. Honestly, I don't really care that much. I just resent being thrown in with "all the top guys are doing it" or "if they train with a cycling guy they're cheating".
Nerd wrote:
You know what matters more than training that few people talk about? Diet. The fuel you put in your body. That's the big key to cyclists...
You know what matters more than training that few people talk about?

Diet.

The fuel you put in your body.

That's the big key to cyclists as trainers, they know how to fuel a body.
UpTiTe wrote:
And rest. Rest, actually sitting and letting your body rest is way under rated in the world of MX.
Yep, to both.
mx 219
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10/25/2011 6:53pm
I was just thinking about this subject matter while I was lifting weights and I now have a thesis with support on performance enhancing drugs in the sport. Trey was actually the key when thinking about this...for the record Trey is not one I associate at all with PEDs.
Nerd
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10/25/2011 6:58pm
mx 219 wrote:
I was just thinking about this subject matter while I was lifting weights and I now have a thesis with support on performance enhancing drugs in...
I was just thinking about this subject matter while I was lifting weights and I now have a thesis with support on performance enhancing drugs in the sport. Trey was actually the key when thinking about this...for the record Trey is not one I associate at all with PEDs.
I do. Performance Enhancing 'Do... He's a redhead. Unfair advantage.
ocscottie
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10/25/2011 6:59pm
ocscottie wrote:
Have you guys seen how the NFL keeps saying they are going to start testing for HGH? but keep putting it off.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Yeah that could be an issue with the NFL. Maybe a can of worms they don't want to open.
Exactly what i am thinking, they keep saying week after week that they are going to do it, but then it comes out that they havent made a decision.
Sherwood
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10/25/2011 7:02pm
As long as everyone uses the same rulebook there shouldn't be a problem.
UpTiTe
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10/25/2011 7:07pm
Sherwood wrote:
As long as everyone uses the same rulebook there shouldn't be a problem.
Not everyone uses the same check bool and in there lies the problem.
Sherwood
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10/25/2011 7:10pm
Sherwood wrote:
As long as everyone uses the same rulebook there shouldn't be a problem.
UpTiTe wrote:
Not everyone uses the same check bool and in there lies the problem.
That falls on the AMA/FIM not the riders.
UpTiTe
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10/25/2011 7:13pm
Sherwood wrote:
As long as everyone uses the same rulebook there shouldn't be a problem.
UpTiTe wrote:
Not everyone uses the same check bool and in there lies the problem.
Sherwood wrote:
That falls on the AMA/FIM not the riders.
I agree with you, and like their bikes, some riders will push the boundries of whats legal and not legal.
Sherwood
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10/25/2011 7:15pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Not everyone uses the same check bool and in there lies the problem.
Sherwood wrote:
That falls on the AMA/FIM not the riders.
UpTiTe wrote:
I agree with you, and like their bikes, some riders will push the boundries of whats legal and not legal.
Nothing will ever be 100% fair in any facet of life. People need to get over that.
RaceFace
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10/25/2011 7:20pm
Nerd wrote:
Well, if we want equality so much, we should probably take away factory bikes, too. And trainers. Not everyone can afford a trainer, right? Just saying...
Well, if we want equality so much, we should probably take away factory bikes, too. And trainers. Not everyone can afford a trainer, right?

Just saying, the sport is full of unfair advantages. Seems silly to focus on this one, which we don't even know for sure the extent.
So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after? If someone wants to do it clean but finds themselves unable to against cheaters, he either falls off the pace or joins in. You're confusing advantages with unfair advantages. An advantage is a factory bike or a trainer. An unfair advantage is being allowed to have a bike that is 10 lbs. below the legal minimum while everyone else has to be above 220 lbs. An unfair advantage is jumping the gate and not being penalized. The same can be said in baseball, where some will argue both sides of the PED issue, but a guy that corks his bat is an outright cheater in everyone's eyes. Funny that Sammy Sosa was guilty of both forms of cheating.
The Rock
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10/25/2011 7:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2011 7:24pm
Nerd wrote:
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all: The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some...
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all:

The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some people have imbalances and make too little, or make too much - ESPECIALLY people who have had head injuries, because the brain stem controls this. One of the main FDA-approved reasons for prescribing HGH is repeated head trauma in your medical history.

Obviously, racers have this. All of them.

So racers can pretty much all, legally, get HGH. That's number one. Prescribed, by a doctor. And if you have a prescription, and you present it, even if they catch you in the IOC, you're allowed to have this substance.

Number two: If a 19-year-old that you're racing against has an HGH level of X, and you are 29 and your HGH level is 1/2 of the 19-year-old's, is it really "cheating" to supplement your HGH to his level so you're on a level playing field?

Remember, this is the definition of "cheat":
Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.

Supplementing your HGH to a younger person's level, who you are racing against, is not gaining any sort of advantage. It's taking away the other person's advantage so you're on a level playing field.

So what's the big deal, anyway?
Isn't this sport already expensive enough without racers having to spend money on HGH? If I'm a pro racer now I have to consider using HGH if I want to compete at the same level as racers who are using HGH.

This isn't about rest or eating right.
mx 219
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10/25/2011 7:34pm
Nerd wrote:
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all: The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some...
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all:

The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some people have imbalances and make too little, or make too much - ESPECIALLY people who have had head injuries, because the brain stem controls this. One of the main FDA-approved reasons for prescribing HGH is repeated head trauma in your medical history.

Obviously, racers have this. All of them.

So racers can pretty much all, legally, get HGH. That's number one. Prescribed, by a doctor. And if you have a prescription, and you present it, even if they catch you in the IOC, you're allowed to have this substance.

Number two: If a 19-year-old that you're racing against has an HGH level of X, and you are 29 and your HGH level is 1/2 of the 19-year-old's, is it really "cheating" to supplement your HGH to his level so you're on a level playing field?

Remember, this is the definition of "cheat":
Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.

Supplementing your HGH to a younger person's level, who you are racing against, is not gaining any sort of advantage. It's taking away the other person's advantage so you're on a level playing field.

So what's the big deal, anyway?
The Rock wrote:
Isn't this sport already expensive enough without racers having to spend money on HGH? If I'm a pro racer now I have to consider using HGH...
Isn't this sport already expensive enough without racers having to spend money on HGH? If I'm a pro racer now I have to consider using HGH if I want to compete at the same level as racers who are using HGH.

This isn't about rest or eating right.
Exactly needs to be as fair as possible for EVERYONE...including no. 20 and 40 to the gate..They are already down on performance of bike to the factory guys, do they really need any more disadvantages.

I think its funny how the "insiders" dont find it a big deal...its cheating, especially if there are rules against it, which there are no?
Nerd
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10/25/2011 8:05pm
Nerd wrote:
Well, if we want equality so much, we should probably take away factory bikes, too. And trainers. Not everyone can afford a trainer, right? Just saying...
Well, if we want equality so much, we should probably take away factory bikes, too. And trainers. Not everyone can afford a trainer, right?

Just saying, the sport is full of unfair advantages. Seems silly to focus on this one, which we don't even know for sure the extent.
RaceFace wrote:
So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after? If someone wants to do it clean but finds themselves unable...
So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after? If someone wants to do it clean but finds themselves unable to against cheaters, he either falls off the pace or joins in. You're confusing advantages with unfair advantages. An advantage is a factory bike or a trainer. An unfair advantage is being allowed to have a bike that is 10 lbs. below the legal minimum while everyone else has to be above 220 lbs. An unfair advantage is jumping the gate and not being penalized. The same can be said in baseball, where some will argue both sides of the PED issue, but a guy that corks his bat is an outright cheater in everyone's eyes. Funny that Sammy Sosa was guilty of both forms of cheating.
"So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after?"

Ummm... You just described motocross racing perfectly. Nice work.

"An advantage is a factory bike or a trainer. An unfair advantage is being allowed to have a bike that is 10 lbs. below the legal minimum while everyone else has to be above 220 lbs."

What about the fact that factory bikes are 220 lbs., and everyone else's is 15-20 pounds heavier than that?
Nerd
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10/25/2011 8:06pm
Nerd wrote:
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all: The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some...
By the way, here comes the philosophical question at the heart of it all:

The younger you are, the more HGH your body naturally makes. Some people have imbalances and make too little, or make too much - ESPECIALLY people who have had head injuries, because the brain stem controls this. One of the main FDA-approved reasons for prescribing HGH is repeated head trauma in your medical history.

Obviously, racers have this. All of them.

So racers can pretty much all, legally, get HGH. That's number one. Prescribed, by a doctor. And if you have a prescription, and you present it, even if they catch you in the IOC, you're allowed to have this substance.

Number two: If a 19-year-old that you're racing against has an HGH level of X, and you are 29 and your HGH level is 1/2 of the 19-year-old's, is it really "cheating" to supplement your HGH to his level so you're on a level playing field?

Remember, this is the definition of "cheat":
Verb: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Noun: A person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.

Supplementing your HGH to a younger person's level, who you are racing against, is not gaining any sort of advantage. It's taking away the other person's advantage so you're on a level playing field.

So what's the big deal, anyway?
The Rock wrote:
Isn't this sport already expensive enough without racers having to spend money on HGH? If I'm a pro racer now I have to consider using HGH...
Isn't this sport already expensive enough without racers having to spend money on HGH? If I'm a pro racer now I have to consider using HGH if I want to compete at the same level as racers who are using HGH.

This isn't about rest or eating right.
HGH costs a whole hell of a lot less than a trainer, that's for sure. And does less, too.
Mod Killer
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10/25/2011 8:06pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2011 8:27pm
mx 219 wrote:
Exactly needs to be as fair as possible for EVERYONE...including no. 20 and 40 to the gate..They are already down on performance of bike to the...
Exactly needs to be as fair as possible for EVERYONE...including no. 20 and 40 to the gate..They are already down on performance of bike to the factory guys, do they really need any more disadvantages.

I think its funny how the "insiders" dont find it a big deal...its cheating, especially if there are rules against it, which there are no?
thats not the case. nerd is simply bringing up the valid point of "where do you draw the line?" and as many have said in this thread, there are so many angles and variables that one must consider with this topic. perspective is everything here.


im not sure if there are rules written that ban some of the more extreme stuff that goes on. as far as i know, its just a few recreational drugs that are banned.

ive been told that IV re-hydration between moto's is banned, but ur a fool if youre not doing it. and that isnt even a health risk. but technically its cheating. some here will agree, others like myself simply call it being more competitive than the next guy.

and even if the more serious stuff is banned, its isnt REALISTICALLY tested for so it isnt exactly illegal. its pseudo-illegal. i know im talking in semantics but its the truth. and i believe this threads initial question.

the ama needs to just try and police the technical side of things with regards to legal bikes. they cannot even do that properly. and that's worlds easier and cheaper to police than PED's.

raceface brings up valid points, but the whole "comptetitive balance" argument is flawed. for the very reasons i outlined in my initial post and expanded upon later, and also because of what nerd is talking about. WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

are we to ban the use of oxygen chambers that riders can sit in to simulate high altitude riding in prep for the colorado national? its expensive. it could easily be rationalized as a unfair competitive advantage by some here. im told that its not a health risk yet has nearly the same performance effects as doping so whats the difference? and if we are going to ban high altitude simulations, should we also ban high altitude training altogether?.....hell, for that matter, should private tracks be banned? they provide a serious advantage that no privateer can compete with. some of you may not like the outlook of myself or others on this topic, but you have to admit, the competitive balance debate is seriously flawed.

unless a rider is sacrificing as much as lance, jordan, RC, or dungey did/do in their careers for as long as they did/currently do.......they have no right to complain about competitive imbalance. the biggest competitive imbalance in this sport lie between the average riders ears. not wallet.

we are going further and further into the grey areas of this topic, and that grey area is growing which is fine, but perspective isnt so this discussion is turning into a convoluted mess imo.



and for trey's mom. i apologize if you think i was implicating your son. i sincerely mean that. the last thing i'd do is discredit your kids efforts. im very aware of just what a huge accomplishment his outdoor lites title is. in a perfect world, we could discuss the topic of this thread openly and rationally and he'd get the credit he deserves for that title in that he overcame more than just a huge points deficit against a very talented pourcel. imo, trey's championship that year is arguably the most amazing feat in the last ten years of this sport in my personal opinion.
RaceFace
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10/25/2011 8:14pm
Nerd wrote:
"So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after?" Ummm... You just described motocross racing perfectly. Nice work. "An advantage...
"So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after?"

Ummm... You just described motocross racing perfectly. Nice work.

"An advantage is a factory bike or a trainer. An unfair advantage is being allowed to have a bike that is 10 lbs. below the legal minimum while everyone else has to be above 220 lbs."

What about the fact that factory bikes are 220 lbs., and everyone else's is 15-20 pounds heavier than that?
I knew it was pointless to engage you in any fashion. You're right, PED's are a wonderful addition to the sport. Why put any effort into doing what is best for the sport? Sticking your head in the sand is always the best way to handle problems.

Bleh, might as well eliminate factory bikes then! Really? That is rational reasoning to you?
Nerd
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10/25/2011 8:16pm
Nerd wrote:
"So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after?" Ummm... You just described motocross racing perfectly. Nice work. "An advantage...
"So an atmosphere that promotes endangering your health to remain competitive is what we're after?"

Ummm... You just described motocross racing perfectly. Nice work.

"An advantage is a factory bike or a trainer. An unfair advantage is being allowed to have a bike that is 10 lbs. below the legal minimum while everyone else has to be above 220 lbs."

What about the fact that factory bikes are 220 lbs., and everyone else's is 15-20 pounds heavier than that?
RaceFace wrote:
I knew it was pointless to engage you in any fashion. You're right, PED's are a wonderful addition to the sport. Why put any effort into...
I knew it was pointless to engage you in any fashion. You're right, PED's are a wonderful addition to the sport. Why put any effort into doing what is best for the sport? Sticking your head in the sand is always the best way to handle problems.

Bleh, might as well eliminate factory bikes then! Really? That is rational reasoning to you?
If you're concerned with having a level playing field, yes. Don't be a hypocrite. Get rid of factory bikes, start regulating the amount of testing and practice time riders get - like they do in other motorsports - and really level it.

Otherwise, all you're doing is taking a stance against something that frankly you don't even understand because someone once told you it's bad.
Sherwood
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10/25/2011 8:20pm
TFS argued the same thing when he lost a ton of weight...

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