Mitch Payton on rule changes

mxgeoff
Posts
1261
Joined
5/26/2008
Location
vegas, SH
Edited Date/Time 3/4/2013 6:45pm
|
race
Posts
3480
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
USA
5/26/2011 11:23am
"
I don’t want people to think that the bikes are going slower or are boring. I don’t want people thinking it’s like a bunch of Enduro bikes or duelsport bikes running around. I listened to the bikes at Glen Helen for the GP and they seemed so slow (Payton meant because of the noise not the speed of the riders).
"


I had the opposite reaction at the USGP.

As a rider and fan, I thought the bikes looked the same or even faster as you weren't distracted by the noise level ( especially when they went by close up to you ) and would focus more on the roost and lines they were taking.

And again, it's not like they were anywhere near as quiet as a typical dual-sport. They just didn't have that pain-inducing edge when they went by.
500guy
Posts
12468
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
5/26/2011 11:26am
30 or less bikes on the track vs 40 makes a big difference too.

but what the hell does Mitch know.
ML512
Posts
17073
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA, USA
Fantasy
5/26/2011 11:38am
race wrote:
[b]" I don’t want people to think that the bikes are going slower or are boring. I don’t want people thinking it’s like a bunch of...
"
I don’t want people to think that the bikes are going slower or are boring. I don’t want people thinking it’s like a bunch of Enduro bikes or duelsport bikes running around. I listened to the bikes at Glen Helen for the GP and they seemed so slow (Payton meant because of the noise not the speed of the riders).
"


I had the opposite reaction at the USGP.

As a rider and fan, I thought the bikes looked the same or even faster as you weren't distracted by the noise level ( especially when they went by close up to you ) and would focus more on the roost and lines they were taking.

And again, it's not like they were anywhere near as quiet as a typical dual-sport. They just didn't have that pain-inducing edge when they went by.
I was there too, the lower sound i thought was actually nice but u can really tell just looking at the bikes it pulls them down, just ask the troy lee guys, me and my boss were joking with baker about how slow the 250Fs look and he said it was very noticeable.
mxgeoff
Posts
1261
Joined
5/26/2008
Location
vegas, SH
5/26/2011 11:40am
I talked to Musquin and he said it was a lot slower with the FIM stuff. He loves his AMA bike.

The Shop

Sondy132001
Posts
4042
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA, USA
5/26/2011 11:43am
500guy wrote:
30 or less bikes on the track vs 40 makes a big difference too.

but what the hell does Mitch know.
Explain that ??

S
5/26/2011 11:46am
Slowing the bikes down and getting lower noise is a win/win. My son and I have been to Europe 6 times to race and the bikes are so much quieter and there seems to be less injuries.
race
Posts
3480
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
USA
5/26/2011 12:00pm
As far as power, I'd bet they'll get any power "lost" right back within a year or two.

Now that they have a vested interest in the lower DB level they'll figure out the tuning and header / exhaust mods needed to regain the power and still keep the sound down.

My ears can still feel it when I was at the US Open / Vegas one year and watching RC during practice. A bunch of us were along the wall and his bike would always backfire in that section. Everyone was covering their ears as it was actually painful.
mxgeoff
Posts
1261
Joined
5/26/2008
Location
vegas, SH
5/26/2011 12:10pm
race wrote:
As far as power, I'd bet they'll get any power "lost" right back within a year or two. Now that they have a vested interest in...
As far as power, I'd bet they'll get any power "lost" right back within a year or two.

Now that they have a vested interest in the lower DB level they'll figure out the tuning and header / exhaust mods needed to regain the power and still keep the sound down.

My ears can still feel it when I was at the US Open / Vegas one year and watching RC during practice. A bunch of us were along the wall and his bike would always backfire in that section. Everyone was covering their ears as it was actually painful.
It is stupid in this era to have bikes making so much noise. For the sake of our sport something needs to be done.

More so in Europe than America, because many of our GP circuits are getting closer and closer to cities and villages.

Thanks FIM for working on this.

Geoff
jtmach1
Posts
28
Joined
6/24/2010
Location
Castro Valley, CA, USA
5/26/2011 2:12pm
I remember hearing Roczen say on the PulpMx show that his AMA bike was quite a bit faster.
Titan1
Posts
9477
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
5/26/2011 2:44pm
Sound is a huge issue in track/land closures in America. The quieter the bikes, the better.

And hopefully quieter bikes at the pro level will trickle down to the amature level, then to the weekend warriors (via quieter stock bikes, and quieter aftermarket pipes). Everyone will win.
Mstock
Posts
2044
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI, USA
5/26/2011 2:49pm
If pipes that add 2hp and are lighter cost $900 now imagine what the same spec pipes will cost next year. $3 grand?
wawazat
Posts
816
Joined
5/6/2011
Location
Corona, CA, USA
5/26/2011 2:54pm
So a guy who owns a pipe shop says we don't need quieter bikes? Hmmm??? Not like he has an agenda or anything..lol
40Plus_922mx
Posts
2900
Joined
4/17/2009
Location
High Desert, CA, USA
5/26/2011 2:57pm
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the special interests and guess what? In the end they are still gonna want them and us gone. When they took the took stroke (due to AQMD laws slated back in 97) I said the same thing. It is not about air pollution, or noise abatement. It is about those who know what's best for others undermining our fossil fuel pleasures.

I thought we were talking closed course competition on private property?
Mstock
Posts
2044
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI, USA
5/26/2011 3:04pm
Is there an official press release from MX Sports regarding this? Search produced no press release.
5/26/2011 3:05pm
What's best for the sport? Does anyone ever ask this question any more?
40Plus_922mx
Posts
2900
Joined
4/17/2009
Location
High Desert, CA, USA
5/26/2011 3:08pm
TripleFive wrote:
What's best for the sport? Does anyone ever ask this question any more?
Nope. And they never have. It is all about how do we whore out this sport to line the pockets of few. The rest in the industry work thier tails off cause they love it. Bad combination.
stillwelding
Posts
3237
Joined
1/22/2007
Location
Santa Clarita, CA, USA
5/26/2011 3:18pm
race wrote:
As far as power, I'd bet they'll get any power "lost" right back within a year or two. Now that they have a vested interest in...
As far as power, I'd bet they'll get any power "lost" right back within a year or two.

Now that they have a vested interest in the lower DB level they'll figure out the tuning and header / exhaust mods needed to regain the power and still keep the sound down.

My ears can still feel it when I was at the US Open / Vegas one year and watching RC during practice. A bunch of us were along the wall and his bike would always backfire in that section. Everyone was covering their ears as it was actually painful.
mxgeoff wrote:
It is stupid in this era to have bikes making so much noise. For the sake of our sport something needs to be done. More so...
It is stupid in this era to have bikes making so much noise. For the sake of our sport something needs to be done.

More so in Europe than America, because many of our GP circuits are getting closer and closer to cities and villages.

Thanks FIM for working on this.

Geoff
Totally agree.
Titan1
Posts
9477
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
5/26/2011 4:02pm
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the...
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the special interests and guess what? In the end they are still gonna want them and us gone. When they took the took stroke (due to AQMD laws slated back in 97) I said the same thing. It is not about air pollution, or noise abatement. It is about those who know what's best for others undermining our fossil fuel pleasures.

I thought we were talking closed course competition on private property?
You make a valid point. Which is all the more reason why every OHV owner, and every OHV-any genre-industry related company needs to start funding and publically supporting the fight against the "no fun club".

And the sound issue is the main issue with closed course competition on private property (along with the dust)....the sound is the easiest target for those that are looking for any excuse to close tracks, and so I believe that quieter bikes are a good idea because it reduces the size of that target.
5/26/2011 4:49pm
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the...
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the special interests and guess what? In the end they are still gonna want them and us gone. When they took the took stroke (due to AQMD laws slated back in 97) I said the same thing. It is not about air pollution, or noise abatement. It is about those who know what's best for others undermining our fossil fuel pleasures.

I thought we were talking closed course competition on private property?
Ask some of the owners of private tracks in So Cal, there isn't any private property any more. The government will tell you what you can do with it and then the times you can use it.
wow123
Posts
1162
Joined
4/27/2010
Location
AX
5/26/2011 5:05pm
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the...
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the special interests and guess what? In the end they are still gonna want them and us gone. When they took the took stroke (due to AQMD laws slated back in 97) I said the same thing. It is not about air pollution, or noise abatement. It is about those who know what's best for others undermining our fossil fuel pleasures.

I thought we were talking closed course competition on private property?
The no fun club have the time to write and complain to anyone and everyone.

and we the having fun club do not

Unfortunately sound doesnt stop at the private property boundaries.

I felt I was legislated out of my home country
So I moved to a country where there are not many no fun club types
in fact its pretty much a free for all,
which is great but it does have its share of draw backs
Sondy132001
Posts
4042
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA, USA
5/26/2011 5:09pm
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the...
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the special interests and guess what? In the end they are still gonna want them and us gone. When they took the took stroke (due to AQMD laws slated back in 97) I said the same thing. It is not about air pollution, or noise abatement. It is about those who know what's best for others undermining our fossil fuel pleasures.

I thought we were talking closed course competition on private property?
wow123 wrote:
The no fun club have the time to write and complain to anyone and everyone. and we the having fun club do not Unfortunately sound doesnt...
The no fun club have the time to write and complain to anyone and everyone.

and we the having fun club do not

Unfortunately sound doesnt stop at the private property boundaries.

I felt I was legislated out of my home country
So I moved to a country where there are not many no fun club types
in fact its pretty much a free for all,
which is great but it does have its share of draw backs
Where do you live and what are the draw backs ? Just curious is it Costa Rica, looking at your avatar, looks tropical.

S
500guy
Posts
12468
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
5/26/2011 5:15pm
500guy wrote:
30 or less bikes on the track vs 40 makes a big difference too.

but what the hell does Mitch know.
Explain that ??

S
it was sarcasm

Mitch goes to a race and say's bikes look slow, I believe him.
wet paint
Posts
404
Joined
7/15/2008
Location
Chesnee, SC, USA
5/26/2011 6:15pm
Some local drag strips and circle tracks run mufflers for the reg. saturday night shows to keep the neighbors happy. But NHRA Nat. or Nascar big boys do not. We run a stock exhaust on our practice bike at local practice tracks.
But if you are at a Nat. it should sound like one. Nothing makes the adrenaline flow like the 450 class coming off the gate. The AMA Nats. is not the problem its the local tracks. How many bikes at Loretta Lynn`s or any other Am. Nat. do you think would pass sound? I agree with Mr.Payton, bring down the noise at the local races and practice tracks but leave the Pro Nats. alone.
oshow
Posts
4083
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
5/26/2011 6:19pm
500guy wrote:
30 or less bikes on the track vs 40 makes a big difference too.

but what the hell does Mitch know.
Explain that ??

S
500guy wrote:
it was sarcasm

Mitch goes to a race and say's bikes look slow, I believe him.
Me too.
cpj36
Posts
724
Joined
7/4/2009
Location
USA
5/26/2011 7:55pm
wet paint wrote:
Some local drag strips and circle tracks run mufflers for the reg. saturday night shows to keep the neighbors happy. But NHRA Nat. or Nascar big...
Some local drag strips and circle tracks run mufflers for the reg. saturday night shows to keep the neighbors happy. But NHRA Nat. or Nascar big boys do not. We run a stock exhaust on our practice bike at local practice tracks.
But if you are at a Nat. it should sound like one. Nothing makes the adrenaline flow like the 450 class coming off the gate. The AMA Nats. is not the problem its the local tracks. How many bikes at Loretta Lynn`s or any other Am. Nat. do you think would pass sound? I agree with Mr.Payton, bring down the noise at the local races and practice tracks but leave the Pro Nats. alone.
No doubt, taking a friend that's never been and watching him have his ears blown up by a fuel car is one of the main reasons to go.

There's got to be some other motive, who knows what but any logical person can see how futile it is to mandate a lower db rating for the pros if the expectation is to have any impact on fixing the problem, which is at the local level.
cpj36
Posts
724
Joined
7/4/2009
Location
USA
5/26/2011 7:58pm
wawazat wrote:
So a guy who owns a pipe shop says we don't need quieter bikes? Hmmm??? Not like he has an agenda or anything..lol
prob be better for him, the quieter they make our bikes the better his replacement pipes will feel.
carlosmacho
Posts
1493
Joined
12/8/2009
Location
Lost Wages, NV, USA
5/27/2011 7:05am
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the...
Sound reduction is a big sham. The "no fun" club wants our bikes done away with period. Go ahead and revolutionize the industry to satisfy the special interests and guess what? In the end they are still gonna want them and us gone. When they took the took stroke (due to AQMD laws slated back in 97) I said the same thing. It is not about air pollution, or noise abatement. It is about those who know what's best for others undermining our fossil fuel pleasures.

I thought we were talking closed course competition on private property?
I have to agree. I had a debate a while back about this. They say that loud pipe closes tracks. What we found is that the track that are being close did not have zoning laws changed (because it requires effort and money). If gov says you have to move because of noise, they have to pay you for the land and ask you to move. This is true of any motorsport tracks. You may have private property but if it is not zoned correctly gov can shut the track down because of complaints. Those complaints usually are noise, dust, increased traffic, disruption of housing communities that are built close to the tracks. Once tracks are grandfathered in they are relatively safe.

If you have a track on your farm or private property and is not zoned correctly and a home builder starts building, you can rest assured, the tracks days are numbered.
carlosmacho
Posts
1493
Joined
12/8/2009
Location
Lost Wages, NV, USA
5/27/2011 7:09am
mxgeoff wrote:
It is stupid in this era to have bikes making so much noise. For the sake of our sport something needs to be done. More so...
It is stupid in this era to have bikes making so much noise. For the sake of our sport something needs to be done.

More so in Europe than America, because many of our GP circuits are getting closer and closer to cities and villages.

Thanks FIM for working on this.

Geoff
How much louder are monster trucks, Nascar, other motorsports. It is not the noise. How many Nascar tracks are moved? Not very many and when they are, they are payed for the land. Not so for mx tracks that are built on non commercial land. They are just told, you are not zoned so shut it down. At that point if you try to rezone, you must have the agreement from surrounding areas and if they are fighting you already, little chance you will get zoning laws change.
carlosmacho
Posts
1493
Joined
12/8/2009
Location
Lost Wages, NV, USA
5/27/2011 7:10am
Ask some of the owners of private tracks in So Cal, there isn't any private property any more. The government will tell you what you can...
Ask some of the owners of private tracks in So Cal, there isn't any private property any more. The government will tell you what you can do with it and then the times you can use it.
Good reason not to live in California.
carlosmacho
Posts
1493
Joined
12/8/2009
Location
Lost Wages, NV, USA
5/27/2011 7:16am Edited Date/Time 5/27/2011 7:18am
cpj36 wrote:
No doubt, taking a friend that's never been and watching him have his ears blown up by a fuel car is one of the main reasons...
No doubt, taking a friend that's never been and watching him have his ears blown up by a fuel car is one of the main reasons to go.

There's got to be some other motive, who knows what but any logical person can see how futile it is to mandate a lower db rating for the pros if the expectation is to have any impact on fixing the problem, which is at the local level.
The reason, a mx track near your house brings down property values of homes. If you lower noise, they will complain about dust, if you water the track every few hours, they complain about the traffic in and out of the track around their homes, if you build bigger roads, they complain the real reason, no one wants a house near the eye sore of a motocross track because it brings down property values. That is from the home owner perspective. Then you have the eco nuts that tell you that you are destroying the land, the habitat for the animals. Instead of capitulating to every special interest group or home builder that decided to build next to a track, it should be fought.

AMA could force electric motocross bikes, again, they will say the problem is dust, when it is really, people who own homes do not want a track of any kind by the house because of the afor mentioned reasons.

End of rant.

Post a reply to: Mitch Payton on rule changes

The Latest