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Loserville, WV, USA
Edited Date/Time
1/25/2012 8:19am
And what happened to Christophe Pourcel?
It’s odd. He’s pretty much one of the most talented riders we’ve had on any of our teams. He rides well and he flows so well and he’s awesome to just watch ride. Basically what it came down to was price. Sometimes you’ll renegotiate with riders and there is a price to pay. Some of the guys feel that they are worth maybe more than they are worth. If the value is there, then we will pay it. But we didn’t think the value was quite up there. When I spoke to him and his agent, they were clear that they were not going to race for a certain amount of money. I did go back and spoke with our partners here at Kawasaki and our sponsors to see if it was even worth it. I don’t think anybody thought it was worth that. It was just too high. And so in the end we didn’t even offer him anything because we couldn’t match what they wanted us to pay him.
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It’s odd. He’s pretty much one of the most talented riders we’ve had on any of our teams. He rides well and he flows so well and he’s awesome to just watch ride. Basically what it came down to was price. Sometimes you’ll renegotiate with riders and there is a price to pay. Some of the guys feel that they are worth maybe more than they are worth. If the value is there, then we will pay it. But we didn’t think the value was quite up there. When I spoke to him and his agent, they were clear that they were not going to race for a certain amount of money. I did go back and spoke with our partners here at Kawasaki and our sponsors to see if it was even worth it. I don’t think anybody thought it was worth that. It was just too high. And so in the end we didn’t even offer him anything because we couldn’t match what they wanted us to pay him.
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I am not a master negotiator but I do talk price and make deals with people on a daily basis. I was once told and have found out, that he who speaks first loses. I think Pourcel lost that deal for sure.
Just like in my business, you can stand your ground and not budge on price, refuse not to work for cheap and then find yourself sitting on your hands. Happens to me, still, from time to time. You have to get in the door, poke your nose around and find out what is going on. I bet CP could take this forced vacation with a little more relief if he actually knew what they were willing to pay him not what they weren't willing to pay him. Or if he could have went a few rounds into negotiation before taking the season off.
I am a big fan of Weimer, but you know Fisher would rather have Pourcel on that second bike.
Maybe there is a cultural difference that botched the lack of negotiation?
Pit Row
Makes sense, but in this case it doesn't sound like there was any opportunity to budge. Haggles usually go like this:
1) I want X
2) I offer you Y
3) I can't go for less than (somewhere between X and Y)
4) I can't offer more than ...
5) repeat 3 and 4 a few times.
6) break out the champagne.
Sounds like Kawasaki just left it at 1, which to me means Pourcel was never in the plan.
I can see where they would want to bet on RV since he is a known quantity: Had he not gotten hurt last year, he would have most likely won the SX title.: He had the momentum. RD was very close to Stewart at round 1, so all things being equal (thy never are) you can reach the conclusion that RV is now faster than James. Add in another top competitor to potentially steal points from your top guy and you have an issue.
We'll see at the end of the season if Kawie made the right call.
pulpmx Steve Matthes LB on Podcast- "CP wouldnt move on money", Fisher RXI- "Cp & agent said they wouldnt ride 4 a lesser amount" CP PR- 'We r not "holding out"
I was under the impression that it was injury not money that stopped him
Cp wants more money because he isn't up to par and would be riding through pain. Understandable
Impass.......Kawi moves on and so does CP.
So in the future he will be healthy and probably want the same amount of money, but the factories are still going to say no because he was hurt and now has sat out a year. They still have no results to go by in the 450 class.
How does this scenario turn out good for CP? Hope it works out for him but I think he is going to have to be a bit more flexible with negotiating in the future.
I'm not sure that Kawi was in the position where they needed an extra 450 rider that could steal points from RV. A healthy Weimer might have done that but maybe he came at a price where it was a no brainer.
I haven't done the math, but would Pourcel have won the outdoor if PC didn't have Wilson and Rattrey winning races or finishing between him and Trey in the second motos?
There is something about this entire situation that I havent understood, maybe its a perspective issue on my part....
Silly season hits. At the time, CP was going to be a free agent. Out of everyone moving up, there were 3 hot commondities... CP, Trey, and Jake.
Honda, literally, had Treys deal done after Daytona. On that, ask around. It wasnt completely signed, sealed, delivered, but it was as close you can get to being done. Trey was going to Honda period, and it was about the worst kept contract secret I can remember in 10 years.
That leaves 2 hot commodities and one was a hell of alot hotter than the other, no offense Jake.
It was very clear CP and his agent or thru his agent, had a figure in mind. When they approached teams, they were very clear on the amount, and the same amount has been said by multiple sources... 1.5mil. He had valid reasons for the amount. However, as a businessman, when you enter into negotiations, thats exactly what they are, negotiations. What CP and his agent did, wasnt negotiate, they shopped. Pay X, you get Y. Dont want to pay X, no problem, you dont get Y. By june with a big points lead, the word out of CP and agent was they wanted at least what RV and Dungey were making. By the end of july, after Trey went 5 str8 up on him, now it was how much Trey was making. On the above, those words were posted in PR releases or in interviews, by CP or for CP.
Here is where I lose connection. Its the end of september. Riders are falling in place, deals are done, spots are filling up if not full. You want X and noone will even come back with a counter offer because you have clearly said its not enough, over the months you have came down but obviously its still not even close to what you can get. Now budgets are spent, only 1 or 2 rides left, and you are still swinging for the fences. At what point do you realise, as a rider and hell, an agent, that you are over valuing yourself and the market, and have to make a choice... ride or sit at home?
Thats where I hang up. As early as may or even June, you have to know you are overpricing yourself, drastically, when 2 top money teams wont even make a counter offer. He had the most bargaining power when he was 52 points up. Deals all around himself are getting done. At some point, does it not make sense to say ok, Trey got this deal 52 points down, hell before we even went to Vegas, before he went 5 str8, lets go for 250k over that and negotiate based on where I want to be vs who will pay the most of which noone will pay. As a businessman, I cant see how you could let this slip by.
of course its moot now. He lost at the last race, has no 450 pro race time to dazzle, and has suspect physical issues. None of these inspire confidence when you are wanting 1.5mil, none of these help when you come down to a mil, and none of these help when you lose 5 str8 up and are going into the last round with a what, 11 point lead? And for sure doesnt help to be trying to get big money when you have a bum shoulder, no ride, no ride options, and noone to negotiate with. At what point do you have to become realistic?
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