Posts
250
Joined
8/27/2021
Location
Mankato, MN
US
Edited Date/Time
9/15/2021 7:40pm
How is your local series doing these days?
Any thoughts off the top of your head that might make it more enjoyable?
For Me Start time is one, I've always disliked how early they start. Sign ups start at 6:30 am and practice at 8:00 am
I would rather try to arrive at 8:00 than be ready to hit the track at 8:00 am
The tracks are pretty spread around the state if your doing a series and you have to wake up at 3:00 or 4:00 am to make the couple hour drive most of the time.
If I could change one thing it would be start time
I think 10:00 to 6:00 would be good and if it runs later no problem in the summer it stays light until 9:00
Maybe it's just me but I'm in no condition to be trying to ride that early.
I've never tried a night race but I think I would like it, I'm just not a morning person.
Any thoughts off the top of your head that might make it more enjoyable?
For Me Start time is one, I've always disliked how early they start. Sign ups start at 6:30 am and practice at 8:00 am
I would rather try to arrive at 8:00 than be ready to hit the track at 8:00 am
The tracks are pretty spread around the state if your doing a series and you have to wake up at 3:00 or 4:00 am to make the couple hour drive most of the time.
If I could change one thing it would be start time
I think 10:00 to 6:00 would be good and if it runs later no problem in the summer it stays light until 9:00
Maybe it's just me but I'm in no condition to be trying to ride that early.
I've never tried a night race but I think I would like it, I'm just not a morning person.
Poll
Moto seems to be dying a slow painful death.
The fat a little. Beginner needing a 250 class and 450 class is head scratching. If you are a beg bike size doesn’t matter.
The Shop
Our local races in the UK, usually follow this class set up give or take a few, all classes 3 races, 8am signing on, 9am practice straight to racing after practice, races could be shortened due to any potential delays:
Autos, 10mins +1lap
65's. 10-12mins +1lap
85's 12 mins + 1 lap (big and small wheel together if there aren't enough entries to run separate races, sometimes entries are limited to 20 SW and 20 BW so it can be run as 1 race, but scored separately)
Veterans 35 or 40+ 12-15mins + 1lap
C1 12-15mins + 1lap
C2 12-15mins + 1lap
B 15mins + 1lap
A/expert 15-20 mins + 1lap
A-C minimum age 15, open capacity
Some clubs run a 125 rookie class up to 18 yr old.
They try and make sure the start line is full, although certain classes will never be mixed due to speed and skill differences.
He's actually a victim of his own success. He gets so many riders, race day is very long and it gets old sitting around.
But he continues to get huge turnouts.
Goes to show that sometimes the grass grows where you water it, because there is no reason other that the people running it that it should be better than other Midwest states, and some have a very little local scene.
The jday style races are great too All A classes, all B classes All C classes etc are on the line and everyone gets two 30 minute motos. Usually have an hour between motos and home at a respectable time. I just don’t have the patience or the money to stay at the track for 8 hours and ride for 35 minutes the whole day.
A local track here had a practice the day before the race and split into 8 classes! They had a class for pw’s, 50’s, 65’s, 85, C, B/A and two quad classes. That was the first and last time I went there.
We've never run quads here at our tracks. We run 85/65, A/B, C/D, Vet +40 and 50cc.
So we rotate thru those 5.
The number of classes can be a problem though.
But we aren't AMA so we can run the classes that we want.
1. Show up 1-2 hrs before race start, race 1-2 hrs, go home. You spend 4 hours at the track and half of it is spent on track/course. ~$50 for a race including gate fee. This is possible because they will start 2-300 riders in one race. GNCC is bigger yet. This probably explains why there are so many guys who are practice riders on MX tracks but don't race. A practice riders gets to ride until he is tired for half the cost of racing two 10 minute motos. He isn't sitting around all day either.
2. Few if any jumps which appeals to less serious riders, older riders, parents of kids, beginners, or anyone else that associates jumps with hospital trips.
3. Lower speeds in a lot of cases so see reasons for 2.
4. I don't know if this is a factor, but the courses are mostly in forests so no blazing sun beating down on you.
5. Your entry fee lets you camp all weekend. Quads generally run one day and bikes the other.
We have at least 6 off-road series that run in Indiana. That doesn't count the regional series that run a race or two here. April-October you can race almost every weekend and both days on several weekends.
Pit Row
A large number of riders want to do multiple classes. But you have to make that option available to everyone. So you end up with all these classes. Everybody wants classes reduced, just don't eliminate theirs.
Plus as someone who manages the money and pays the bills, promoters need the entries to make the whole thing work. There's just no magic bullet here.
Our group has discussed this extensively over the years, and we've yet to find a good solution.
Washougal Top Gun on day 2 and 3. Motos start at 7:30 AM. Only makes sense if you camp or live 20 minutes away
Natural terrain track...nothing to intimidate the D, C, and vet guys...The slow guys and vets pay the bills (way more of them, than fast guys...so I'd cater the track to them a bit more...but I would look for pro class sponsors...and do 100% pro payback + whatever money I could drum up from local businesses to pay to the pro's...just to hopefully use a good pay check to get more pro's since they might find the track a bit boring).
For all big bikes there would be a total of 5 classes...A, B, C, D and pro...all bike sizes, all ages in every class...Just race people of your skill level regardless of what bike they are riding or how old they are, or their gender.
They'd each get 2, 30+2 motos...
I have a separate track for all pee wee's (A and
A and B mini's...the 65 and 85's...I"d run 10+1 motos.
Big bikes go first...so their dads/moms can race their moto's, and still help the kids.
Practice at 7:00...racing starts at 8:00...That's about 6 hours of big bike moto's (big bike motos done by 2:00)...kids start racing at 2:30 after some prep work on the main track...
For the kids, 8 moto's on the peewee track...and 8 moto's on the big track...another 2 hours of racing...
Everyone done by 4:30....dads/moms got over an hour of track time (not counting practice)...kids got almost a half hour...peewee's get a taste of racing...everyone within a couple hours of the track is home for dinner.
With the class structure you're proposing the number of entries would be way down due to riders only being able to run 1 class. And you need lots of enries to make money.
We've been at this for a long time and have tried lots of things. Split 1 day programs are nothing new. It was tried in the 90's here.
Also splitting into 2 days has it's problems as well. Double the expenses and track prep for the promoter. And families that race would have to come both days.
But I'm always open to try something that is good for the riders and is financially sound for the track owner.
So if you need 110 entries, and gates hold 40 riders...and there are 5 classes...5 X 40 is 200 entries (not counting minis and peewees).
But yes, with the current (broken) system (that is driving riders away from the sport), and 5 riders in a class, I'd go broke...but I wouldn't expect 5 riders per class with this system.
Sure, it may take some time to get the full gates...but I honestly believe it would happen (and possibly even force a "qualifier" system for the main moto as there would be more than 40 riders in a class). As a FORMER (one of many many former local mx'ers who has moved on to off road), I'd race a track like that, and a program like that...and I can guarantee you I'm not alone.
It would take some publicity to get the new format out...but that isn't overly expensive these days with social media...but I'd make sure and get the word out about 30 minute moto's, safe natural terrain track, and shorter day...blast that on social media in popular dirt bike pages...
Even further, I'd aggressively seek out local business to "sponsor" the event (with cash)...It would be the " Motel 5 moto X races"...and the "Dr. Pain Chiropractic Holeshot"...and the "Jims auto repair trophy's" and the "Sally's diner start line"..."Local Honda dealers pro payout"..."Oil express finish line jump"...etc etc etc...anything to raise a few extra dollars to make ends meet and/or put more money in the rider/promoter/track owners pocket.
But I don't know what I'm talking about...no experience...so this probably wouldn't work either.
Maybe Moto just isn't fun enough to get a good turn out, and that's why its dying?
Having all the answers is easy when you don't lose anything if you happen to be wrong.
This coming from a former promoter, over 400 racing events of my own, and way more than that working for and helping other promoters.
I am with indy on this one.
I just honestly don’t see how not making changes is a solution to dying grassroots moto…I know I’ll never race moto again with the current class structure and track layouts.
But you know more than me….those changes wouldn’t work. With your experience, what changes do you think will work to increase attendance?
Plus experiment with some different types of racing, maybe Try Some one hour long or even two hour long Endurance races, with very Limited Classes and either you sign up for them or you don't.
That said LTM in Casey IL regularly gets 500 plus enties for a race and well over 250 on a practice day.. And yes the day is long. But he would never get that many under your format becauce many of those are riders running multiple classes. I'm not sure there's a good answer to this.
You basically would be running 2 complete races for much less money. Plus families that race would have to come both days.
As a promoter I can say we would not try this. Way too much work.
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