LL's Competition Bulletin 2016-2:

Arkmx
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Arkmx
Edited Date/Time 12/24/2015 1:16pm
SUBJECT: COMPETITION BULLETIN 2016-2:

Final 2016 National Classes and Supplemental Rules

The 2016 Rocky Mountain ATV*MC AMA Amateur National Motocross Championship National Classes and Supplemental Rules are now final. As a result of the information submitted during the Public Comment Period, several revisions and changes were made.

Most notable changes include:

1. Creation of the 250 All-Star A/B (14+) Sportsman class;
2. Creation of the 125 (12-16) B/C class;
3. Elimination of the Vet (35+) class;
4. Division of the Senior (45+) and Masters (50+) classes into (2) separate classes; and [color=blue](Hmm 42 riders - DC how many???)[/color]
5. Modification of the age limits in the 85 (9-12) class.


All participants are encouraged to familiarize themselves with the LL Supplemental Rules prior to competing in any events.
We thank you for your participation in this important process and apologize for any inconvenience resulting from a delay in the process.
Good luck this year, and we'll see you at the races!
MX Sports
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DC
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DC 12/22/2015 2:13pm
12/22/2015 2:13pm
I believe both of those classes are full gates and stand-alone motos, let me check...

DC
olds cool
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olds cool 12/22/2015 2:24pm
12/22/2015 2:24pm
DC wrote:
I believe both of those classes are full gates and stand-alone motos, let me check...

DC
Please let it be so!!!
aedwards07
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aedwards07 12/22/2015 2:31pm
12/22/2015 2:31pm
Still waiting for a +25 B/C class. Or just a sportsman version of it.

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DC
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DC 12/22/2015 2:37pm
12/22/2015 2:37pm
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive balance in pretty much every class, from pee-wees to Masters, between aspiring pros, former pros and never-went-pros. There's only so much time in a day and days in that one week at Loretta Lynn's, without compromising the length of the motos.

olds cool, it is two entirely different classes, three motos each, full gates.

aedwards07, we believe there are enough C classes and B classes for riders in that age group right now. It's not a perfect fit for everyone, but we are always trying to find that fit.

DC
49weasel
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49weasel 12/22/2015 2:48pm
12/22/2015 2:48pm
DC wrote:
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive...
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive balance in pretty much every class, from pee-wees to Masters, between aspiring pros, former pros and never-went-pros. There's only so much time in a day and days in that one week at Loretta Lynn's, without compromising the length of the motos.

olds cool, it is two entirely different classes, three motos each, full gates.

aedwards07, we believe there are enough C classes and B classes for riders in that age group right now. It's not a perfect fit for everyone, but we are always trying to find that fit.

DC
You might've started a shit storm with dropping 35+.
Why aren't the people that pay asked or at least have a voice in the changes? Why is there limited classes or 2 super mini classes with overlapping ages?
Seems like there's other fat that could be trimmed.
49weasel
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49weasel 12/22/2015 2:49pm
12/22/2015 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2015 2:50pm
DC wrote:
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive...
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive balance in pretty much every class, from pee-wees to Masters, between aspiring pros, former pros and never-went-pros. There's only so much time in a day and days in that one week at Loretta Lynn's, without compromising the length of the motos.

olds cool, it is two entirely different classes, three motos each, full gates.

aedwards07, we believe there are enough C classes and B classes for riders in that age group right now. It's not a perfect fit for everyone, but we are always trying to find that fit.

DC
Double post
look out below
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look out below 12/22/2015 2:57pm
12/22/2015 2:57pm
DC wrote:
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive...
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive balance in pretty much every class, from pee-wees to Masters, between aspiring pros, former pros and never-went-pros. There's only so much time in a day and days in that one week at Loretta Lynn's, without compromising the length of the motos.

olds cool, it is two entirely different classes, three motos each, full gates.

aedwards07, we believe there are enough C classes and B classes for riders in that age group right now. It's not a perfect fit for everyone, but we are always trying to find that fit.

DC
so get rid of the ex-pros and pros. It is pretty discouraging to the average joe to line up next to Ferry, Renner, Sheak, Reynard etc. But whatever, I'm getting too old, lazy and broke to make it again anyways. Pinch Blush
Arkmx
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Arkmx 12/22/2015 3:00pm
12/22/2015 3:00pm
DC wrote:
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive...
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive balance in pretty much every class, from pee-wees to Masters, between aspiring pros, former pros and never-went-pros. There's only so much time in a day and days in that one week at Loretta Lynn's, without compromising the length of the motos.

olds cool, it is two entirely different classes, three motos each, full gates.

aedwards07, we believe there are enough C classes and B classes for riders in that age group right now. It's not a perfect fit for everyone, but we are always trying to find that fit.

DC
.

Thank you for the info DC... Now I have a reason to get back into shape.. LOL.

.
smoothies862 12/22/2015 3:09pm
12/22/2015 3:09pm
DC wrote:
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive...
look out below, the demand wasn't there for a class that included ex-pros at that age level. We are always trying to find the right competitive balance in pretty much every class, from pee-wees to Masters, between aspiring pros, former pros and never-went-pros. There's only so much time in a day and days in that one week at Loretta Lynn's, without compromising the length of the motos.

olds cool, it is two entirely different classes, three motos each, full gates.

aedwards07, we believe there are enough C classes and B classes for riders in that age group right now. It's not a perfect fit for everyone, but we are always trying to find that fit.

DC
look out below wrote:
so get rid of the ex-pros and pros. It is pretty discouraging to the average joe to line up next to Ferry, Renner, Sheak, Reynard etc...
so get rid of the ex-pros and pros. It is pretty discouraging to the average joe to line up next to Ferry, Renner, Sheak, Reynard etc. But whatever, I'm getting too old, lazy and broke to make it again anyways. Pinch Blush
some riders would consider that part of the experience. if you get 7th out of 40 with those guys,isnt that a win? hell,top 15? imo that is what makes LL what it is. i doubt anyone over 40 needs another trophy. enjoy the rideWoohoo
dgmx
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dgmx 12/22/2015 3:12pm
12/22/2015 3:12pm
man what a bummer for me on the plus 35 class
not allowed to race the 30. ( scored 1 sx point in the lites class back in 2005)
so i have patiently been waiting for the plus 35. ( im 33)
booooooo
look out below
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look out below 12/22/2015 3:39pm
12/22/2015 3:39pm
smoothies862 wrote:
some riders would consider that part of the experience. if you get 7th out of 40 with those guys,isnt that a win? hell,top 15? imo that...
some riders would consider that part of the experience. if you get 7th out of 40 with those guys,isnt that a win? hell,top 15? imo that is what makes LL what it is. i doubt anyone over 40 needs another trophy. enjoy the rideWoohoo
I know a championship is a (very) long shot, I'm more worried about qualifying. Pinch
DC
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DC 12/22/2015 3:43pm
12/22/2015 3:43pm
49weasel, we did ask the people -- everyone who participated last year was asked for feedback. These classes are never easy to figure, and the demographics are always changing. The +45 and +50 guys have been doing double-row starts for a decade now, and yet the demand was higher to expand that class than it was to keep the +35. I know that the changes to the classes for 2016 that the AMA and MX Sports came up with are not going to be popular with everyone.

DC
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MxKing809 12/22/2015 3:45pm
12/22/2015 3:45pm
I'm waiting for the 25+ 2-stroke B/C class!!
crusher773
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crusher773 12/22/2015 3:59pm
12/22/2015 3:59pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2015 4:00pm
dgmx you don't belong in there anyway. If you scored a SX point you shouldn't be able to race it. Kick all the pros out they had their day in the glory. Anyone that has ever rode pro at any level got their shot. There should be 1 class for all of these guys and the rest of it should be true amateur. Right now every single plus class is just an old pro class. I applaud the breaking up of the +45 and +50 but letting pros be the only ones that even have a chance to qualify in the others is sucky. You would have way more people happy if all the pros were just booted than upset pros who are just sandbagging anyway. That's my opinion after trying to qualify a handful of times. I don't even try anymore because there is no possibility with the pros being allowed in.
SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 12/22/2015 4:13pm
12/22/2015 4:13pm
crusher773 wrote:
dgmx you don't belong in there anyway. If you scored a SX point you shouldn't be able to race it. Kick all the pros out they...
dgmx you don't belong in there anyway. If you scored a SX point you shouldn't be able to race it. Kick all the pros out they had their day in the glory. Anyone that has ever rode pro at any level got their shot. There should be 1 class for all of these guys and the rest of it should be true amateur. Right now every single plus class is just an old pro class. I applaud the breaking up of the +45 and +50 but letting pros be the only ones that even have a chance to qualify in the others is sucky. You would have way more people happy if all the pros were just booted than upset pros who are just sandbagging anyway. That's my opinion after trying to qualify a handful of times. I don't even try anymore because there is no possibility with the pros being allowed in.
I tend to agree. Why not just have a former pro class?

The truth is that the former pro's want to be competitive at the front of their respective classes but the true local amateur is supposed to be content with just being there.
look out below
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look out below 12/22/2015 5:28pm
12/22/2015 5:28pm
crusher773 wrote:
dgmx you don't belong in there anyway. If you scored a SX point you shouldn't be able to race it. Kick all the pros out they...
dgmx you don't belong in there anyway. If you scored a SX point you shouldn't be able to race it. Kick all the pros out they had their day in the glory. Anyone that has ever rode pro at any level got their shot. There should be 1 class for all of these guys and the rest of it should be true amateur. Right now every single plus class is just an old pro class. I applaud the breaking up of the +45 and +50 but letting pros be the only ones that even have a chance to qualify in the others is sucky. You would have way more people happy if all the pros were just booted than upset pros who are just sandbagging anyway. That's my opinion after trying to qualify a handful of times. I don't even try anymore because there is no possibility with the pros being allowed in.
SPYGUY wrote:
I tend to agree. Why not just have a former pro class? The truth is that the former pro's want to be competitive at the front...
I tend to agree. Why not just have a former pro class?

The truth is that the former pro's want to be competitive at the front of their respective classes but the true local amateur is supposed to be content with just being there.
x2

x2

B riders and below....
49weasel
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49weasel 12/22/2015 5:41pm
12/22/2015 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2015 5:42pm
DC wrote:
49weasel, we did ask the people -- everyone who participated last year was asked for feedback. These classes are never easy to figure, and the demographics...
49weasel, we did ask the people -- everyone who participated last year was asked for feedback. These classes are never easy to figure, and the demographics are always changing. The +45 and +50 guys have been doing double-row starts for a decade now, and yet the demand was higher to expand that class than it was to keep the +35. I know that the changes to the classes for 2016 that the AMA and MX Sports came up with are not going to be popular with everyone.

DC
Why can't you guys just run the same classes as the RCSX?
CLASSES
2016 RCSX Classes
Classes Displacement
1. Open Pro Sport 122-Open cc
2. 450 B 122-Open cc
3. 450 C (14-20) 122-Open cc
4. 450 C (21+) 122-Open cc
5. 250 A 122-250cc
6. 250 All-Star A/B (14+) 122-250cc
7. 250 B 122-250cc
8. 250 B Limited 122-250cc
9. 250 C Jr. (12-16) 122-250cc
10. 250 C (17+) 122-250cc
11. 250 C Limited 122-250cc
12. College (16-24) 122-Open cc
13. Junior (25+) 122-Open cc
14. Vet B/C (30+) 122-Open cc
15. Vet (35+) 122-Open cc
16. Senior (40+) 122-Open cc
17. Senior B/C (40+) 122-Open cc
18. Senior (45+) 122-Open cc
19. Masters (50+) 122-Open cc
20. 51cc (4-6) Limited 0-51cc 2-Stroke
21. 51cc (7-8) Limited 0-51cc 2-Stroke
22. 51cc (4-8) 0-51cc 2-Stroke
23. 65cc (7-9) 59-65cc 2-Stroke
24. 65cc (10-11) 59-65cc 2-Stroke
25. 65cc (7-11) 59-65cc 2-Stroke
26. 85cc (9-11) 79-85cc 2-Stroke
27. 85cc (9-12) 79-85cc 2-Stroke
28. Mini Sr. 1 (12-13) 79-85cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 17"/Rear 16"
29. Mini Sr. 2 (12-14) 79-85cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 17"/Rear 16"
30. Super Mini (12-15) 79-112cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 19"/Rear 16"
31. Schoolboy 1 (12-16) 86-125cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Min. Wheels: Front 19"/Rear 16"
32. Schoolboy 2 (13-16) 122-150cc 2-Stroke/126-250cc 4-Stroke. No Minicycle or Supermini
33. WMX (16+) WMX Rules Apply
34. Women Amateur (12+) 99-250cc
35. Girls (9-13) 79-85 cc 2-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 17"/Rear 16"

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MX114
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MX114 12/22/2015 5:53pm
12/22/2015 5:53pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2015 5:58pm
Former pro's either need one class that's all there own or else completely eliminate there involvement all together. There's plenty of other events throughout the year for them to get there racing fix. Lorettas should be the one "true amateur" event during the year for the sake of the rest of us older racers who never made it to there level
MX114
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MX114 12/22/2015 5:56pm
12/22/2015 5:56pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2015 5:56pm
Yes it's cool to see RC, Reynard, Ferry, Tortelli, and these guys at the ranch over the last few years but at the same time it's kinda lame for them to rob a working class guy of his shot at a amateur championship or even just qualifying for that matter
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Steve 396 12/22/2015 6:01pm
12/22/2015 6:01pm
You can never please everyone so it is what it is. For what it's worth... It's too much darn money anyway for what you get. both myself and my son tried to make it all the way last year. Both of us made it to the regionals but we were out of our league there for sure. It was a great experience but I am fine on the local level. You can add me to the list of folks that think the ex pro's should have their own class and leave the rest to the "true" amateur's that are competing. Hope yall enjoy the ride!

Steve
DC
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DC 12/22/2015 6:16pm
12/22/2015 6:16pm
I understand what you guys are saying about separating ex-pros, but where do you draw the line? Should a 27-year-old ex-pro from a 37- or 47-yearold that's ten or twenty years past his pro days? The AMA and MX Sports agreed to try to put all of the 25-to-39-year-old ex-pros into one age category (and of course anyone can ride other classes that aren't age-restricted). We don't want to knock ex-pros out completely, because by definition they are amateurs again once they drop their pro license and sit out a year, nor do we want to give up all of the vet categories to them. This is what we think will work for 2016, and if it doesn't, we will all go back to the drawing board.

I am sorry that a few guys in that 35-39 "sportsman" group have to race against 30-and-up riders that can be a few years younger, but it's impossible to fit the perfect class in for everyone.

And 49weasel, we don't use the exact same classes as RCSX because riders can compete in more than two classes at Daytona, but they can't at Loretta Lynn's, and that influences the thinking on national classes as compared to other races.

DC

mwilcox349 12/22/2015 6:32pm
12/22/2015 6:32pm
Why eliminate the two-stroke class just to add another schoolboy class? Where two-stoke was an open age class now if over the age of 17 your screwed. Why not make it 125 B/c open age? Currently there is no class someone could be even remotely competitive on a 125 if your over the age of 17. Is 125 B/c not essentially another schoolboy class?
Phillip_Lamb
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Phillip_Lamb 12/22/2015 6:52pm
12/22/2015 6:52pm
mwilcox349 wrote:
Why eliminate the two-stroke class just to add another schoolboy class? Where two-stoke was an open age class now if over the age of 17 your...
Why eliminate the two-stroke class just to add another schoolboy class? Where two-stoke was an open age class now if over the age of 17 your screwed. Why not make it 125 B/c open age? Currently there is no class someone could be even remotely competitive on a 125 if your over the age of 17. Is 125 B/c not essentially another schoolboy class?
DC ~ why not create 2 30+ classes. One is your standard vet class and the other would be a vet legends race geared more those who raced pro once upon a time and those who are on the faster end of vet racing.


and second the elimination of the two stroke class. I agree with limiting skill level but the age restriction always bothers me especially when there is schoolboy 1 which is already a 125 2 stoke class.
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Jterry 12/22/2015 7:45pm
12/22/2015 7:45pm
Im with everyone else on this subject. There needs to be a class that guys like me who are legitimate B riders and have NEVER rode A class in any mx, ax, ec races can race in and be competitive.

I get that its extremely hard to police if a guy has rode A if they havent scored a pro point. But 99% of the time someone is going to know the guy who is sand bagging and will out him.

And as far as it not being fair for a 47 year old ex pro to have to race a 27 year old ex pro. John Grewe can smoke just about everyone in 25+ and he's what 50?? But how is it fair for guys that have never raced A to have to race ex pros?

Everyone that i've talked to on this subject that has tried to qualify recently or made it in 30 and 35 before but finished 30th or worse are hanging it up. Its not worth the money to try and get in just to finish 38th. When there are a couple other big vet races that seperate the classes and you race with riders of the same skill.
crusher773
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crusher773 12/22/2015 7:55pm
12/22/2015 7:55pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2015 7:59pm
Once pro always pro, that is where the line should be drawn. If you ever had the speed to run in the pro class and classify yourself as a pro you should be in a separate class. There should be no dropping down in class if you had the talent to be pro then that's it you are pro. One of the issues is that everyone wants to go to Lorettas but there are only so many gates. These guys take up these gates, some of them do nothing but ride its their job. While everyone else goes and works a real job and still fits in training and riding. The big push is for Lorettas to be an even playing field but that isn't the case at all in the vet classes. I think the vet classes should be like the 50 classes too. You get 1 vet class and that's it. I'm just aggravated because I have tried several times and I have buddies that are pretty damn fast and they don't even bother anymore either because its not worth throwing the money away when you have no chance against people that are pro riders. I would bet anything if you just across the board in 2017 ban all pro riders at any level from vet classes and give them 1 class of their own that the numbers at the areas would be up. In the vet classes and several mini classes as well because then we bring our kids to try. I'm not trying to bag on DC here they do a great job with stuff but it seems like there is a lot of pussy footing around about telling pros to sack up and stay out of amateur classes instead of leaning more towards the working joe that is really pumping the money into the sport.
mxshawn299
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mxshawn299 12/22/2015 8:05pm
12/22/2015 8:05pm
DC wrote:
49weasel, we did ask the people -- everyone who participated last year was asked for feedback. These classes are never easy to figure, and the demographics...
49weasel, we did ask the people -- everyone who participated last year was asked for feedback. These classes are never easy to figure, and the demographics are always changing. The +45 and +50 guys have been doing double-row starts for a decade now, and yet the demand was higher to expand that class than it was to keep the +35. I know that the changes to the classes for 2016 that the AMA and MX Sports came up with are not going to be popular with everyone.

DC
49weasel wrote:
Why can't you guys just run the same classes as the RCSX? CLASSES 2016 RCSX Classes Classes Displacement 1. Open Pro Sport 122-Open cc 2. 450...
Why can't you guys just run the same classes as the RCSX?
CLASSES
2016 RCSX Classes
Classes Displacement
1. Open Pro Sport 122-Open cc
2. 450 B 122-Open cc
3. 450 C (14-20) 122-Open cc
4. 450 C (21+) 122-Open cc
5. 250 A 122-250cc
6. 250 All-Star A/B (14+) 122-250cc
7. 250 B 122-250cc
8. 250 B Limited 122-250cc
9. 250 C Jr. (12-16) 122-250cc
10. 250 C (17+) 122-250cc
11. 250 C Limited 122-250cc
12. College (16-24) 122-Open cc
13. Junior (25+) 122-Open cc
14. Vet B/C (30+) 122-Open cc
15. Vet (35+) 122-Open cc
16. Senior (40+) 122-Open cc
17. Senior B/C (40+) 122-Open cc
18. Senior (45+) 122-Open cc
19. Masters (50+) 122-Open cc
20. 51cc (4-6) Limited 0-51cc 2-Stroke
21. 51cc (7-8) Limited 0-51cc 2-Stroke
22. 51cc (4-8) 0-51cc 2-Stroke
23. 65cc (7-9) 59-65cc 2-Stroke
24. 65cc (10-11) 59-65cc 2-Stroke
25. 65cc (7-11) 59-65cc 2-Stroke
26. 85cc (9-11) 79-85cc 2-Stroke
27. 85cc (9-12) 79-85cc 2-Stroke
28. Mini Sr. 1 (12-13) 79-85cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 17"/Rear 16"
29. Mini Sr. 2 (12-14) 79-85cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 17"/Rear 16"
30. Super Mini (12-15) 79-112cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 19"/Rear 16"
31. Schoolboy 1 (12-16) 86-125cc 2-Stroke/75-150cc 4-Stroke. Min. Wheels: Front 19"/Rear 16"
32. Schoolboy 2 (13-16) 122-150cc 2-Stroke/126-250cc 4-Stroke. No Minicycle or Supermini
33. WMX (16+) WMX Rules Apply
34. Women Amateur (12+) 99-250cc
35. Girls (9-13) 79-85 cc 2-Stroke. Max. Wheels: Front 17"/Rear 16"
i don't see how this schedule wouldn't work for you guys DC if your saying you couldn't fit everything in in a week why not extend LL to 8 days and have pros 4 days and true amateures 4 days. Would someone please explain to me why its still called a amateur national to begin with? i agree with the ex-pros having classes i do not agree with weekend warriors having to qualify with them. I see atleast 2 classes from above for everyone. Or better yet why don't someone just start a true national for all amateur and let these guys have there ranch?
RbR
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RbR 12/22/2015 8:09pm
12/22/2015 8:09pm
Very happy that the 45+ and 50+ classes will have their own races .... finally. I don't mind racing with former top level ex-pros ... I try to stay on the same lap.
look out below
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look out below 12/22/2015 8:54pm
12/22/2015 8:54pm
Why did the +30 drop the B/C anyways?
Jterry
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Jterry 12/22/2015 9:31pm
12/22/2015 9:31pm
Because they got tired of policing the class because every year they would have hundreds of guys sand bagging and drop down to race it.
They would have guys that raced A for years, even been to the ranch multiple times or raced pro sx/mx races that quit racing for 5 or so years because whatever reason petition the and to drop down to B and then proceed to kill everyone at the regionals.

How is it fair for guys that have never raced a class higher than B to race guys like Paul P or Charles Castillo (don't know how to spell his last name) when they raced A for years or worked as a factory mechanic for how many years?

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