Help me understand...................

Sandy Rutz
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8/12/2012 9:44am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2012 9:41am
Shouldn't it just be cut and dry that the top 2 in points at a set date in the 450 and the top 250 rider should make up team USA..?

Consider the nationals like the olympic trials..... Unlike many other countries, who have a selection committee, the selection to the United States Olympic Team is exclusively by results on the track. It's "do or die" in the prescribed event.

I don't disagree with the choice's made per se. Not sure why the argument has been about Justin Barcia being selected to the team, when it's Blake Bagget that got smoked the last time out. If Barcia was picked for his projected results, then shouldn't Eli Tomac get a shot and not Bagget...?

Or is it a double standard to pick Bagget based on series results and not series results for the 450's...?

It comes off as narrow minded thinking at best.
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kongols
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8/12/2012 9:52am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2012 9:56am
Whenever you will be responsible for a results, you can choose whoever you want. This is not about who deserves what, this is about who can bring back Chamberlain Trophy.
8/12/2012 9:58am
noob. The question was never if Blake Baggett gets to go. Blake has been quite dominant all year long and is the series points leader. The team isn't picked based on one race, but on the whole season and the riders performances. Normally the top two 450 riders go and the best 250 rider goes. But this year all the top 450 riders are injured with the exception of Dungey. Normally Alessi would be struggling to get into the top 5 but with all the injuries he is 2nd. Last year when Barcia was riding the 450 he was second only to the two Ryans. He beat everyone else pretty bad including Alessi. Motoconcepts also wouldn't be able to give Mike the support that Factory Honda will provide to Bam Bam. Barcia is also a well-known sand rider. Tomac was a great prospect as well but he has had a bit of an up and down season, very inconsistent. The man who handles USA's MXoN team is Roger DeCoster. He, along with Mitch Payton and other team managers, decide on which three riders would be best to select. This year they picked Dungey, Baggett, and Barcia respectively. You get it now?
8/12/2012 10:08am
Exactly ^ baggett has been dominating all year, so to question him for mxdn just because one bad moto at washougal is pretty dumb.
moto329
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8/12/2012 10:14am
Baggett got smoked the last time out? Really? Who won the second moto and the overall yesterday?

The Shop

Sandy Rutz
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8/12/2012 10:24am
noob. The question was never if Blake Baggett gets to go. Blake has been quite dominant all year long and is the series points leader. The...
noob. The question was never if Blake Baggett gets to go. Blake has been quite dominant all year long and is the series points leader. The team isn't picked based on one race, but on the whole season and the riders performances. Normally the top two 450 riders go and the best 250 rider goes. But this year all the top 450 riders are injured with the exception of Dungey. Normally Alessi would be struggling to get into the top 5 but with all the injuries he is 2nd. Last year when Barcia was riding the 450 he was second only to the two Ryans. He beat everyone else pretty bad including Alessi. Motoconcepts also wouldn't be able to give Mike the support that Factory Honda will provide to Bam Bam. Barcia is also a well-known sand rider. Tomac was a great prospect as well but he has had a bit of an up and down season, very inconsistent. The man who handles USA's MXoN team is Roger DeCoster. He, along with Mitch Payton and other team managers, decide on which three riders would be best to select. This year they picked Dungey, Baggett, and Barcia respectively. You get it now?
You must have to much sand in your helmet.

What does that have to do with just having a black and white system in place. Reward the guys with the best results for the year in Mx. And if they decline the offer then so be it, on to the next rider in line.

And with all due respect, How was Barcia 2nd to the two Ryans....? Wouldn't that make him 3rd...?

And for the record, Barcia went 3rd, 7th, 13th and 3rd last year on a 4fiddy.

Dirt bike riders take a lot of blows to the head so I understand.
Sandy Rutz
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8/12/2012 10:29am
moto329 wrote:
Baggett got smoked the last time out? Really? Who won the second moto and the overall yesterday?
Is this a discussion about the outdoors or MXON....? Try and keep up, its not brain surgery.

Yes last time out at the MXON Blake Bagget was a LAPPER in both moto's. Apparently he was making sure everyone knew it wasn't a fluke....

bobby397
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8/12/2012 10:37am
why do you believe the second 450 rider should have the spot spot over the second place in points 250 rider? mx3 is a open class, barica has had more wins, and holds more points than alessi so far this series. to me, barica deserves the spot.
Sandy Rutz
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8/12/2012 10:45am
bobby397 wrote:
why do you believe the second 450 rider should have the spot spot over the second place in points 250 rider? mx3 is a open class...
why do you believe the second 450 rider should have the spot spot over the second place in points 250 rider? mx3 is a open class, barica has had more wins, and holds more points than alessi so far this series. to me, barica deserves the spot.
Then make that the rule for the third spot. The mx3/open class rider is the rider with the second most point of the two classes and then that rider has to ride his displacement in the MXON. Like KROC did when he rode and almost won on a 250.

I would be fine with your logic if it was the rule across the board......... WinkWinkWink
DownSouth
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8/12/2012 11:58am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2012 11:58am
bobby397 wrote:
why do you believe the second 450 rider should have the spot spot over the second place in points 250 rider? mx3 is a open class...
why do you believe the second 450 rider should have the spot spot over the second place in points 250 rider? mx3 is a open class, barica has had more wins, and holds more points than alessi so far this series. to me, barica deserves the spot.
Sandy Rutz wrote:
Then make that the rule for the third spot. The mx3/open class rider is the rider with the second most point of the two classes and...
Then make that the rule for the third spot. The mx3/open class rider is the rider with the second most point of the two classes and then that rider has to ride his displacement in the MXON. Like KROC did when he rode and almost won on a 250.

I would be fine with your logic if it was the rule across the board......... WinkWinkWink
There is no rule and never has been. The 3 riders who Team USA thinks give us the best shot to win get picked.

If your system existed in 2009 we would have sent Short and Tedesco on 450's (2nd and 3rd in the 450 pts, top americans-Reed won) and Dungey on a 250. The people in charge did not feel that was the best lineup so we got Dungey and Tedesco on 450's and Weimer on the 250. Short finished ahead of Tedesco in points but Ivan's previous MXDN experience likely elevated him above Short. Was Short robbed like people are claiming of Alessi?

The last couple of years it happened to work out that the top 2 450 guys got to go and somehow that seems to make everyone think that is always the way it should be.
8/12/2012 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2012 3:10pm
here is something alot are forgetting and hear and just dont listen.

your #1 guy on a 450 is light years away from your #2 except for rare circumstances.

your #1, #2, #3 guys in a different class are so close thats its a toss up and it is literally to the point of who makes less mistakes or has a bit of better luck, circumstances, ect.

Now, you take your best 450 guy, your best 250 guy....... the crux, the next two fastest guys are on 250's. You have the laps Dung is laying down, you have the laps Bagget, Barcia, and Tomac are throwing down... THEN you have Mike and Jakes! And we arent talking .1 seconds. We are talking Dung at 2 to 4 seconds over his competitors, and 3 guys in a different class but on the same track that are consistently only .5 to 1 off that... then its a full second to 2 back to Mike or/and Jake.

Add to that, that on a whim, Barcia races a 450 and RUNS WITH RV AND DUNG WHO HAVE BEEN BATTLING ALL YEAR... and you say fluke, he turned around and did it the next week and the next!

You guys are looking at things by cc class. The team has NEVER been picked that way, otherwise, 87 O'Show wouldnt have been on a 125! Or hannah, ect ect ect ect. Hell, how many 250 guys have jumped on a 500? or dropped down, moved up... its never been set in stone to who goes by what class they race in.

The 3 fastest guys are going. period. end of debate. The 3 hands down fastest. The ONLY one left out is Tomac and if anything happens to one of the 3, who do you think is next to step up! yeah.
karnivool
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8/13/2012 3:17am
noob. The question was never if Blake Baggett gets to go. Blake has been quite dominant all year long and is the series points leader. The...
noob. The question was never if Blake Baggett gets to go. Blake has been quite dominant all year long and is the series points leader. The team isn't picked based on one race, but on the whole season and the riders performances. Normally the top two 450 riders go and the best 250 rider goes. But this year all the top 450 riders are injured with the exception of Dungey. Normally Alessi would be struggling to get into the top 5 but with all the injuries he is 2nd. Last year when Barcia was riding the 450 he was second only to the two Ryans. He beat everyone else pretty bad including Alessi. Motoconcepts also wouldn't be able to give Mike the support that Factory Honda will provide to Bam Bam. Barcia is also a well-known sand rider. Tomac was a great prospect as well but he has had a bit of an up and down season, very inconsistent. The man who handles USA's MXoN team is Roger DeCoster. He, along with Mitch Payton and other team managers, decide on which three riders would be best to select. This year they picked Dungey, Baggett, and Barcia respectively. You get it now?
NateDawg you are way off...

so we are taking Barcia because over a year ago he had one adrenaline filled day where he beat the 'rest' of the guys...

ur logic brings Stewey back into the argument...after all, pretty sure he can have 1 good day...

Decoster and Honda are in bed(always have been, check the history books)...only reason barcia is going
sc961
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8/13/2012 5:20am
How many of you have been involved in the selection process for Team USA?

For those that haven't, how do you know what should be different?
jamma10
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8/13/2012 5:32am
You guys don't realise how lucky you are to have such contentious decisions to make.

If it wasn't a choice between Barcia and Alessi, you would be arguing over Tomac, Weimer, Short, Tickle or Millsaps etc. Riders that would more than likely walk into a place on roughly 32 of the 36 MXdN teams each year.
MxPro318
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8/13/2012 8:53am
How many times does Decoster have to prove that he knows wtf he is doing? How many teams has he picked that became champions? There is a reason Factory Honda has already signed Barcia to a 450 just like there is a reason Decoster picked him for the 450, everyone doubting will soon see.
DonM
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8/13/2012 9:07am
here is something alot are forgetting and hear and just dont listen. your #1 guy on a 450 is light years away from your #2 except...
here is something alot are forgetting and hear and just dont listen.

your #1 guy on a 450 is light years away from your #2 except for rare circumstances.

your #1, #2, #3 guys in a different class are so close thats its a toss up and it is literally to the point of who makes less mistakes or has a bit of better luck, circumstances, ect.

Now, you take your best 450 guy, your best 250 guy....... the crux, the next two fastest guys are on 250's. You have the laps Dung is laying down, you have the laps Bagget, Barcia, and Tomac are throwing down... THEN you have Mike and Jakes! And we arent talking .1 seconds. We are talking Dung at 2 to 4 seconds over his competitors, and 3 guys in a different class but on the same track that are consistently only .5 to 1 off that... then its a full second to 2 back to Mike or/and Jake.

Add to that, that on a whim, Barcia races a 450 and RUNS WITH RV AND DUNG WHO HAVE BEEN BATTLING ALL YEAR... and you say fluke, he turned around and did it the next week and the next!

You guys are looking at things by cc class. The team has NEVER been picked that way, otherwise, 87 O'Show wouldnt have been on a 125! Or hannah, ect ect ect ect. Hell, how many 250 guys have jumped on a 500? or dropped down, moved up... its never been set in stone to who goes by what class they race in.

The 3 fastest guys are going. period. end of debate. The 3 hands down fastest. The ONLY one left out is Tomac and if anything happens to one of the 3, who do you think is next to step up! yeah.
You nailed it!!
It amazes me how many people just don't know the history of this sport and if it does't work out the way "they" want it then somebody has to be in somebody's back pocket or politics are involved.
It always has been and always will be the fastest available riders with the best chance to win regardless of what class they race will and should be chosen....PERIOD!!!!!
FreshTopEnd
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8/13/2012 9:08am
karnivool wrote:
NateDawg you are way off... so we are taking Barcia because over a year ago he had one adrenaline filled day where he beat the 'rest'...
NateDawg you are way off...

so we are taking Barcia because over a year ago he had one adrenaline filled day where he beat the 'rest' of the guys...

ur logic brings Stewey back into the argument...after all, pretty sure he can have 1 good day...

Decoster and Honda are in bed(always have been, check the history books)...only reason barcia is going
He didn't have "one" good day on the 450 last year.

At Unadilla, Barcia went 3-3 and Alessi went 7-4

At Southwick, Barcia went 36(dnf mechanical)-1 and Alessi went 4-6

At Steel City, Barcia went 4-31(dnf illness) and Alessi went 8-5

At Pala, Barcia went 3-2 and Alessi went 4-7

Both Barcia and Alessi are having better years.
dboivin
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8/13/2012 9:29am
He didn't have "one" good day on the 450 last year. At Unadilla, Barcia went 3-3 and Alessi went 7-4 At Southwick, Barcia went 36(dnf mechanical)-1...
He didn't have "one" good day on the 450 last year.

At Unadilla, Barcia went 3-3 and Alessi went 7-4

At Southwick, Barcia went 36(dnf mechanical)-1 and Alessi went 4-6

At Steel City, Barcia went 4-31(dnf illness) and Alessi went 8-5

At Pala, Barcia went 3-2 and Alessi went 4-7

Both Barcia and Alessi are having better years.
stop posting facts FTE...some vital guys ignore them anyways. this shouldn't even be up for debate, you'all are freaking retarded to want to handicap our team with MA.
bwilky
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8/13/2012 9:31am
Sandy Rutz wrote:
Is this a discussion about the outdoors or MXON....? Try and keep up, its not brain surgery. Yes last time out at the MXON Blake Bagget...
Is this a discussion about the outdoors or MXON....? Try and keep up, its not brain surgery.

Yes last time out at the MXON Blake Bagget was a LAPPER in both moto's. Apparently he was making sure everyone knew it wasn't a fluke....

A "lapper" that had combined better overall results (as a team) than any other team on the starting gate. As well as multiple crashes in the crazy European weather in both motos, one that left him stuck under the fencing for a long period of time. The "lapper" that didn't give up and let Team USA down. Bottom line, Roger and Mitch know how to pick the best riders to represent Team USA and give our country the best chance at winning.

Also, have you been watching the races this year? Blake has 9 moto wins (more than any other rider in the 250 class), 4 overall wins (again, more than any other rider in the class), and one year of MXoN experience under his belt.
APLMAN99
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8/13/2012 9:32am
Sandy Rutz wrote:
Shouldn't it just be cut and dry that the top 2 in points at a set date in the 450 and the top 250 rider should...
Shouldn't it just be cut and dry that the top 2 in points at a set date in the 450 and the top 250 rider should make up team USA..?

Consider the nationals like the olympic trials..... Unlike many other countries, who have a selection committee, the selection to the United States Olympic Team is exclusively by results on the track. It's "do or die" in the prescribed event.

I don't disagree with the choice's made per se. Not sure why the argument has been about Justin Barcia being selected to the team, when it's Blake Bagget that got smoked the last time out. If Barcia was picked for his projected results, then shouldn't Eli Tomac get a shot and not Bagget...?

Or is it a double standard to pick Bagget based on series results and not series results for the 450's...?

It comes off as narrow minded thinking at best.
How is the Olympic basketball team chosen? Subjective judgement.

Olympic cycling team? Mostly subjective judgement (one woman was an "automatic qualifier, no men were).

So the MXdN team is probably picked much like an Olympic team, wouldn't you agree?
Sandy Rutz
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8/13/2012 9:41am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2012 9:42am
After hearing others opinions, I guess there's really no bad choice among the top guys. My opinion was based on my desire to see a particular rider get the opportunity to race on the team. My opinion was narrow minded thinking at best.


The riders chosen are three of the fastest guy's on the planet (No slight to the fastest). For the most part, I don't think other's opinions are from a lack of knowledge of the sport, but based on their own desire to see another rider on the team.


Unfortunately for MA800 it has more to do with what he's capable of on the track at this stage of his career as opposed to his and Tony's actions within the industry.


With that said Mike800 is having a great year...

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