Chad Reed, and Stewart aren't much different speed wise.

Hank_Thrill
Posts
4507
Joined
9/22/2008
Location
Arlen, TX US
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 11:26pm


I always hear a lot of talk about James being so much faster than Reed; but if you put everything into context, and step back to look at the whole picture: there really isn't much difference. These are the two dudes at the end of the bell curve. The two guys faster on a supercross track than anybody else on this tiny planet. They are some of the best in the world, and so is everyone else anyone who makes a AMA Supercross main event.


Making the main is truly an incredible feat, that completely gets overlooked. Those who have made mains know how hard it is. (Heck, even Pastrana failed to make the main on a track he designed!). And those who have not given an attempt - such as myself, and damn near everybody else here - have no idea how difficult it truly is. Yeah, we have a better idea than the genera public, thanks to the fact we may have experience riding a bike, or racing a state series; but in all reality, nobody knows how hard it is to make a main event, except those who have, and those who have put in a honest efforts of attempts. So, as far as getting last in a main event goes, I actually think it's impossible. Even if you're a loser at supercross, you're a winner through my eyes. I believe, anyone who makes a main event at supercross is a legend (they just may or may not be recognized throughout history next to the super-legends, due to our small narrow focused and forgetful minds). So if I see the losers of the race as winners, then what makes those who finishes first?


Sometimes I think it's a bit of a bummer there can only be one person holding up the number one plate at the end of a series. That may seem like a crazy thought, especially when all we're taught growing up is, "win win win!" But who decided to put all the attention on the winner?? I know it would be impossible time wise, but everyone out there at the track DESERVES acknowledgment. I think Reed and Stewart deserve equal respect. Both are super incredible athletes, incredible champions, and I can't wait to watch them go at it again this year.


cheers to a new season, and those who will be competing, racing, and talking shit on message boards about the best there are Smile
|
FIREfish148
Posts
5443
Joined
1/20/2009
Location
Kirkland, WA US
12/24/2009 1:10am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:36pm
I dunno about equal respect. James earned every little bit of speed hes attained, and so has Chad. Yet no one even really challenged James last year. They did keep him at bay, but not long enough to make a move, or make him say "Oh man I really need to step it up".
Who knows maybe if James wasnt out there Chad would be able to run the same pace, or make it seem like he can. He definitley did in the outdoors this year.
Preset
Posts
593
Joined
4/10/2008
Location
AU
12/24/2009 1:19am
Reed and Stewart are both incredible riders.And I couldn't agree more about the fact that any rider that can make the main deserves our respect.Watch any of those guys at our local track and they haul.
All the best to everybody for the festive season and here's to a good seasons racing for 2010.
Cheers
Preset Smile
Looped Out
Posts
318
Joined
7/8/2009
Location
Murrieta, CA US
12/24/2009 1:49am
I always hear a lot of talk about James being so much faster than Reed; but if you put everything into context, and step back to...


I always hear a lot of talk about James being so much faster than Reed; but if you put everything into context, and step back to look at the whole picture: there really isn't much difference. These are the two dudes at the end of the bell curve. The two guys faster on a supercross track than anybody else on this tiny planet. They are some of the best in the world, and so is everyone else anyone who makes a AMA Supercross main event.


Making the main is truly an incredible feat, that completely gets overlooked. Those who have made mains know how hard it is. (Heck, even Pastrana failed to make the main on a track he designed!). And those who have not given an attempt - such as myself, and damn near everybody else here - have no idea how difficult it truly is. Yeah, we have a better idea than the genera public, thanks to the fact we may have experience riding a bike, or racing a state series; but in all reality, nobody knows how hard it is to make a main event, except those who have, and those who have put in a honest efforts of attempts. So, as far as getting last in a main event goes, I actually think it's impossible. Even if you're a loser at supercross, you're a winner through my eyes. I believe, anyone who makes a main event at supercross is a legend (they just may or may not be recognized throughout history next to the super-legends, due to our small narrow focused and forgetful minds). So if I see the losers of the race as winners, then what makes those who finishes first?


Sometimes I think it's a bit of a bummer there can only be one person holding up the number one plate at the end of a series. That may seem like a crazy thought, especially when all we're taught growing up is, "win win win!" But who decided to put all the attention on the winner?? I know it would be impossible time wise, but everyone out there at the track DESERVES acknowledgment. I think Reed and Stewart deserve equal respect. Both are super incredible athletes, incredible champions, and I can't wait to watch them go at it again this year.


cheers to a new season, and those who will be competing, racing, and talking shit on message boards about the best there are Smile
To me it seems that if Reed was the racer holding the #1 plate and had won 11 main event in 2009, you would be waving the flag and screaming on your soap box, but since Stewart was the one that did all the winning and is the Supercross champion you want others to venue the two as equals.

Equals would be both riders winning the same amount of main events and scoring the same amount of points in the series championship. But this is not the case here and the rider that won 11 of 17 main events and wins the championship, should be considered faster and the better riders.

What you might want to say, is that Reed won 3 main events and RV won 2 main events, so they look to be equals on a Supercross track.
hoppsan
Posts
554
Joined
9/3/2009
Location
Stockholm SE
12/24/2009 2:35am
I don't think he's trying to take anything at all away from Stewart. I think he was mearly pointing out the insanity of the disrespect people give whoever is "just" the second fastest guy, and complete lack of respect for anyone else who still do pull off something notable.

And people want the underdog to win, that's just the way it is. Whenever the person on top is passed it means someone stepped it up, and that's always exciting to see.

Cheers for a good post, and indeed cheers to another great season coming up. And Merry Christmas.

The Shop

Stephon
Posts
1817
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Hollywood, CA US
12/24/2009 4:18am
Anyone that doesn't respect Chad's skill on a bike needs to check their respect for the sport as a whole. Chad is a monster who will undoubtedly have a secure place in SX/MX history - and deservedly so.

That said, I don't see why we need to act like James isn't a superior rider in nearly every category. Isn't that obvious? Like Looped Out said; it seems that since James is the better one we need to downplay it and make it seem like he and Chad are equals. With all due respect I call BS on that. RV and Reed are much more equals than either RV or CR are to James - isn't that obvious?

Kinetic1
Posts
2796
Joined
6/4/2009
Location
Gun Lake, MI US
12/24/2009 4:37am
You are completely correct! Their respective speed really isn't that much different. The records show that it's usually no more than a few tenths a lap. In going with your opinion that all the riders deserve respect the average difference in speed per lap between James and the last place guy at any supercross usually isn't more than 5 or 10 seconds. While that may be an eternity in racing terms think about how fast you could get around a SX track. I would be absolutely ecstatic if I could run within 10 seconds of the last place guy. Some people tend to lose sight of the fact that the last place guy is faster than them by a HUGE margin. I would be willing to bet that I couldn't get within a minute of a guy like Justin Keeney and he "sucks" according to popular opinion.

Good post.
MX690
Posts
784
Joined
11/13/2009
Location
AU
12/24/2009 4:43am
I dunno about equal respect. James earned every little bit of speed hes attained, and so has Chad. Yet no one even really challenged James last...
I dunno about equal respect. James earned every little bit of speed hes attained, and so has Chad. Yet no one even really challenged James last year. They did keep him at bay, but not long enough to make a move, or make him say "Oh man I really need to step it up".
Who knows maybe if James wasnt out there Chad would be able to run the same pace, or make it seem like he can. He definitley did in the outdoors this year.
"Oh man I really need to step it up".

After the first few rounds last year i think James may have actually said that to himself..
R-acer
Posts
4047
Joined
3/20/2008
Location
Toronto CA
12/24/2009 5:00am
And yet..Reed has NEVER beat Stewart in a heads up raceWhistling

MX690
Posts
784
Joined
11/13/2009
Location
AU
12/24/2009 5:09am
R-acer wrote:
And yet..Reed has NEVER beat Stewart in a heads up raceWhistling

Beat him in Vegas 09, the same race RV beat him in heads up..... Every race is heads up.
indy_maico
Posts
4984
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
12/24/2009 5:13am
I'd be surprised if Reed is quicker than Villo this year, let alone James.

No disrespect intended, but although these 3 guys are at the top, there still has to be a pecking order at the end of the day.
davis224
Posts
6256
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
138th
12/24/2009 5:16am
R-acer wrote:
And yet..Reed has NEVER beat Stewart in a heads up raceWhistling

Not dissing stewart, but every time Reeds been there to pressure, Stewart's gone down. The "never won straight up" thing holds very little water to me.
yzf918
Posts
22
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Hopewell, NY US
12/24/2009 5:24am
from what i have read the only one to ever beat stewart when he has not crashed is Villopoto at vegas final last season. that includes rc.
ayearinmx
Posts
2761
Joined
3/5/2007
Location
GB
12/24/2009 5:32am
yea... i think they are going to change to rule, so that crashing isn't allowed in races... it just causes too much confusion Huh
MX690
Posts
784
Joined
11/13/2009
Location
AU
12/24/2009 5:33am
indy_maico wrote:
I'd be surprised if Reed is quicker than Villo this year, let alone James. No disrespect intended, but although these 3 guys are at the top...
I'd be surprised if Reed is quicker than Villo this year, let alone James.

No disrespect intended, but although these 3 guys are at the top, there still has to be a pecking order at the end of the day.
Join the long list of people who are prepared to write off Reed before the season even starts.....Hope you like surprises.
Kinetic1
Posts
2796
Joined
6/4/2009
Location
Gun Lake, MI US
12/24/2009 5:34am
yzf918 wrote:
from what i have read the only one to ever beat stewart when he has not crashed is Villopoto at vegas final last season. that includes...
from what i have read the only one to ever beat stewart when he has not crashed is Villopoto at vegas final last season. that includes rc.
That's because you only know what some moron at CBS said. RC beat Stewart regularly and yes even when James hasn't crashed. (although far less frequently) Chad also beat Stewart in that race as well. Do you believe everything you read or hear? I suggest reading the Bashers space from MXA in the December issue. I think it was December anyway.
mxr102
Posts
1045
Joined
5/18/2009
Location
Waterloo, IA US
12/24/2009 5:36am
R-acer wrote:
And yet..Reed has NEVER beat Stewart in a heads up raceWhistling

Ok now R-acer get off your James Stewart Hi Horse and come out from under the JSE desk. Seriously every race is a heads up race. Every 450 rider lines up on the starting gate and the gate drops for all 20 of those riders at the same time. So how can you say Chad has never beat James straight up? I suppose RV has never beat James Straight up either? Wait for a matter of FACT RV is the only rider to ever beat James when he hasn't fallen. Evil
12/24/2009 6:35am
Kinetic1 wrote:
You are completely correct! Their respective speed really isn't that much different. The records show that it's usually no more than a few tenths a lap...
You are completely correct! Their respective speed really isn't that much different. The records show that it's usually no more than a few tenths a lap. In going with your opinion that all the riders deserve respect the average difference in speed per lap between James and the last place guy at any supercross usually isn't more than 5 or 10 seconds. While that may be an eternity in racing terms think about how fast you could get around a SX track. I would be absolutely ecstatic if I could run within 10 seconds of the last place guy. Some people tend to lose sight of the fact that the last place guy is faster than them by a HUGE margin. I would be willing to bet that I couldn't get within a minute of a guy like Justin Keeney and he "sucks" according to popular opinion.

Good post.
take that 4 - 8 tenths of a second to 20 laps. 4 - 8 tenths of a second per lap is huge in an SX race.
12/24/2009 6:38am
R-acer wrote:
And yet..Reed has NEVER beat Stewart in a heads up raceWhistling

davis224 wrote:
Not dissing stewart, but every time Reeds been there to pressure, Stewart's gone down. The "never won straight up" thing holds very little water to me.
Really? Every time? So last year I guess Reed was too far back to pressure him? So in essence you are saying that Reed isn't close to being as fast as JS since JS didn't crash in those 11 wins.
Zycki11
Posts
6002
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Ankeny, IA US
12/24/2009 6:46am
Come on now poker, at the least look at things respectively. The sheer fact that Stewarts fans go to the greatest lengths just to prove his dominance is hysterical. The "true fans" of our sport would be cheering for excellent racing, not for a runaway. James' fans are all the same and make it difficult to call them legitimate fans of the sport. I realize I generalized that aspect, however it seems to fit the shoe.
hoppsan
Posts
554
Joined
9/3/2009
Location
Stockholm SE
12/24/2009 6:47am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:36pm
R-acer wrote:
And yet..Reed has NEVER beat Stewart in a heads up raceWhistling

mxr102 wrote:
Ok now R-acer get off your James Stewart Hi Horse and come out from under the JSE desk. Seriously every race is a heads up race...
Ok now R-acer get off your James Stewart Hi Horse and come out from under the JSE desk. Seriously every race is a heads up race. Every 450 rider lines up on the starting gate and the gate drops for all 20 of those riders at the same time. So how can you say Chad has never beat James straight up? I suppose RV has never beat James Straight up either? Wait for a matter of FACT RV is the only rider to ever beat James when he hasn't fallen. Evil
Chad was ahead of James over the finish-line in Vegas as well though >_>.


Anyway, the whole "James Stewart this and that" on TV is obviously meant to explain to the non-moto fans how dominant Stewart is, which is acceptable (though kind of annoying). But it really sucks when people on a forum like this brings up that card. You'd think people here knew better than that. Crashing is a part of racing.
tasbrock
Posts
48
Joined
12/9/2006
Location
Murfreesboro, TN US
12/24/2009 6:54am
Well, yet another nice general thread saying nice things about all the 450 main riders finally made that "all important" slide down hill into the JS7 camp vs. the Reed camp. Pity.
Jordan421
Posts
1905
Joined
12/5/2007
Location
Lakeland, FL US
Fantasy
2602nd
12/24/2009 6:58am
R-acer wrote:
And yet..Reed has NEVER beat Stewart in a heads up raceWhistling

I know I have asked you this before, but what do you call a heads up race?

I do believe in supercross there are 20 people on the gate and 40 people in motocross.
Now all these riders are lined up and all there gates do drop at once, please correct me if I'm wrong.
And if everyone takes off at the same time, isnt that a heads up race?
I know I aint to smart but isnt every race like this?
petegrath
Posts
1112
Joined
5/18/2009
Location
John's Island, SC US
12/24/2009 7:08am
That "hasn't been beaten unless crashed" stat was thrown around for supercross only. As far as the outdoors, I watched Ricky beat James first hand at Budds Creek in '07. First moto was James 1, Ricky 2. Second: Ricky 1, James 2 for the overall. James didn't crash, Ricky passed him "straight up" with about 4 or 5 laps to go.

Now that that's out of the way, it was simply amazing to watch those two go at it. Either one had it in them to win, and I couldn't believe the pace they were setting. There was absolutely no one else on that track that could even race their pace for a single lap.

On to Chad, I don't know where people automatically throw the "lack of respect" term around when someone simply points out that James is faster. As of the last series where we watched the two go at it, James was simply faster and won more races.

Does that mean I don't respect the hell out of Chad and his ability to ride? Hell no. He surprised the shit out of me at A1 last year, and pretty much throughout the series. I didn't think anyone had anything for James, and Chad clearly did. He definitely has a great chance of earning the title this year if he attacks it like last year. I still want James to win though... Smile
Zycki11
Posts
6002
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Ankeny, IA US
12/24/2009 7:16am
Well said petegrath, you proved my generalization wrong and I was hoping somebody would. With that being said, some people on this board need to take a step back and simply enjoy our sport for what it is. Personally I would rather bench race with someone and hand him a wrench afterwards rather than bench race with someone and hit him with a wrench
yzf918
Posts
22
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Hopewell, NY US
12/24/2009 7:41am
yzf918 wrote:
from what i have read the only one to ever beat stewart when he has not crashed is Villopoto at vegas final last season. that includes...
from what i have read the only one to ever beat stewart when he has not crashed is Villopoto at vegas final last season. that includes rc.
Kinetic1 wrote:
That's because you only know what some moron at CBS said. RC beat Stewart regularly and yes even when James hasn't crashed. (although far less frequently)...
That's because you only know what some moron at CBS said. RC beat Stewart regularly and yes even when James hasn't crashed. (although far less frequently) Chad also beat Stewart in that race as well. Do you believe everything you read or hear? I suggest reading the Bashers space from MXA in the December issue. I think it was December anyway.
heres where i read it not on CBS it was an article on dirt rider, and no i do not believe everything i read, just pointing out something i read that i thought was appropriate to the conversation.
AURORA, Ill. (April 21, 2009) - Ryan Villopoto has thrown a wrench into the two-man machine that has dominated the 2009 Monster Energy AMA Supercross, an FIM World Championship, and with the penultimate round set for this Saturday at Salt Lake City's Rice-Eccles Stadium, the story line is expected to take another exciting twist. On the heels of his first career victory last week in Seattle, the Monster Energy Kawasaki-backed Villopoto has become the wild card in the James Stewart and Chad Reed championship race. Villopoto's win not only turned Reed's five-point lead into a three-point deficit to Stewart, but he also became the first AMA Supercross class rider to win a main event in which Stewart did not crash, snapping the previous string of 54 consecutive races that Stewart had either won or crashed.

12/24/2009 7:41am
Zycki11 wrote:
Come on now poker, at the least look at things respectively. The sheer fact that Stewarts fans go to the greatest lengths just to prove his...
Come on now poker, at the least look at things respectively. The sheer fact that Stewarts fans go to the greatest lengths just to prove his dominance is hysterical. The "true fans" of our sport would be cheering for excellent racing, not for a runaway. James' fans are all the same and make it difficult to call them legitimate fans of the sport. I realize I generalized that aspect, however it seems to fit the shoe.
I don't understand what you are referencing. What "things" should I look at respectively?
yzf918
Posts
22
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Hopewell, NY US
12/24/2009 7:43am
petegrath wrote:
That "hasn't been beaten unless crashed" stat was thrown around for supercross only. As far as the outdoors, I watched Ricky beat James first hand at...
That "hasn't been beaten unless crashed" stat was thrown around for supercross only. As far as the outdoors, I watched Ricky beat James first hand at Budds Creek in '07. First moto was James 1, Ricky 2. Second: Ricky 1, James 2 for the overall. James didn't crash, Ricky passed him "straight up" with about 4 or 5 laps to go.

Now that that's out of the way, it was simply amazing to watch those two go at it. Either one had it in them to win, and I couldn't believe the pace they were setting. There was absolutely no one else on that track that could even race their pace for a single lap.

On to Chad, I don't know where people automatically throw the "lack of respect" term around when someone simply points out that James is faster. As of the last series where we watched the two go at it, James was simply faster and won more races.

Does that mean I don't respect the hell out of Chad and his ability to ride? Hell no. He surprised the shit out of me at A1 last year, and pretty much throughout the series. I didn't think anyone had anything for James, and Chad clearly did. He definitely has a great chance of earning the title this year if he attacks it like last year. I still want James to win though... Smile
i thought they were refering to Supercross with the has won every race he hasnt crashed in theory.

Post a reply to: Chad Reed, and Stewart aren't much different speed wise.

The Latest