Alex Martin's Penalty Yesterday

SPYGUY
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SPYGUY
Edited Date/Time 7/23/2019 3:11pm
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track at Red Bud a few weeks ago, yet Martin was only penalized one position while AC was penalized two spots.

Martin could have re-entered the track almost immediately after having exited the track if he'd just checked up and made an attempt to turn sharper. No question, however, given the weak penalty, it paid off for him since he was able to re-enter the track in 3rd/4th intead of mid-pack.

https://youtu.be/NFIEZpRASKA?start=73

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BobbyM
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BobbyM 7/21/2019 1:57pm
7/21/2019 1:57pm
Not this again... Yer docked a lap.
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Racer111
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Racer111 7/21/2019 2:00pm
7/21/2019 2:00pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track...
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track at Red Bud a few weeks ago, yet Martin was only penalized one position while AC was penalized two spots.

Martin could have re-entered the track almost immediately after having exited the track if he'd just checked up and made an attempt to turn sharper. No question, however, given the weak penalty, it paid off for him since he was able to re-enter the track in 3rd/4th intead of mid-pack.

https://youtu.be/NFIEZpRASKA?start=73

So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line?

You have to be the smartest guy in the world. WhistlingWhistling
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GuyB
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GuyB 7/21/2019 2:08pm
7/21/2019 2:08pm
It was also his first offense, not his second or third...in the same moto. My guess is, the next time he does similar would be viewed more harshly.
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SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 7/21/2019 2:13pm
7/21/2019 2:13pm
Racer111 wrote:
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line...
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line?

You have to be the smartest guy in the world. WhistlingWhistling
Yeah, how about before the banners, genius.


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SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 7/21/2019 2:19pm
7/21/2019 2:19pm
GuyB wrote:
It was also his first offense, not his second or third...in the same moto. My guess is, the next time he does similar would be viewed...
It was also his first offense, not his second or third...in the same moto. My guess is, the next time he does similar would be viewed more harshly.
Yeah, that's not how penalties should work and you're smart enough to know that.

He went off the track in the first turn and re-entered 13 seconds (!) later in 3rd or 4th position. If you blow the first turn and go off the track, sorry, you shouldn't get to turn that into a top 5 start.

This is way more egregious than what AC did.



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DonM
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DonM 7/21/2019 2:33pm
7/21/2019 2:33pm
GuyB wrote:
It was also his first offense, not his second or third...in the same moto. My guess is, the next time he does similar would be viewed...
It was also his first offense, not his second or third...in the same moto. My guess is, the next time he does similar would be viewed more harshly.
SPYGUY wrote:
Yeah, that's not how penalties should work and you're smart enough to know that. He went off the track in the first turn and re-entered 13...
Yeah, that's not how penalties should work and you're smart enough to know that.

He went off the track in the first turn and re-entered 13 seconds (!) later in 3rd or 4th position. If you blow the first turn and go off the track, sorry, you shouldn't get to turn that into a top 5 start.

This is way more egregious than what AC did.



The rules don't state how many positions you have to lose when you go off the track on a start on the outside of a turn with no place to re-enter safely...Now the real problem is the first turn at that track as this has happened every moto for years...Kind of unbelievable that the proper place to re-enter wasn't covered at the riders meeting...or a designated spot wasn't created....but then again the officials in charged have shown multiple times that they aren't rocket scientists....
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GuyB 7/21/2019 2:37pm
7/21/2019 2:37pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Yeah, that's not how penalties should work and you're smart enough to know that. He went off the track in the first turn and re-entered 13...
Yeah, that's not how penalties should work and you're smart enough to know that.

He went off the track in the first turn and re-entered 13 seconds (!) later in 3rd or 4th position. If you blow the first turn and go off the track, sorry, you shouldn't get to turn that into a top 5 start.

This is way more egregious than what AC did.



I think that's why there is latitude built into the rules, and likely how a lot of us were raised. Don't learn your lesson the first time? The punishment will be worse the next time.
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Racer111
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Racer111 7/21/2019 2:39pm
7/21/2019 2:39pm
Racer111 wrote:
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line...
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line?

You have to be the smartest guy in the world. WhistlingWhistling
SPYGUY wrote:
Yeah, how about before the banners, genius. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/21/361741/s1200_Screenshot_2019_07_21_AMA_Motocross_Spring_Creek_2019_250_Moto_2_YouTube.jpg[/img]
Yeah, how about before the banners, genius.


Hmmm, he’s going about 50-60mph on what might as well be ice and he needs to make a fairly hard right on said ice where he can’t see what’s behind where is entering. My guess is that you’re still not getting it.
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GuyB
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GuyB 7/21/2019 2:48pm
7/21/2019 2:48pm


This is part of the aftermath of the pileup exiting the first turn in the second 450 moto. Yes, this trio of riders took the early option to get back onto the track...through a giant pile of mud that had been scraped off the side of the track. They'd all been involved in the crash, and were moving at a lot lower speed than Alex would have had been going. If he'd tried to go through there at the speed he was going? They'd probably still be digging trying to find him.
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SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 7/21/2019 3:13pm
7/21/2019 3:13pm
GuyB wrote:
I think that's why there is latitude built into the rules, and likely how a lot of us were raised. Don't learn your lesson the first...
I think that's why there is latitude built into the rules, and likely how a lot of us were raised. Don't learn your lesson the first time? The punishment will be worse the next time.
So you’re stating that if AC had pulled that exact same move yesterday then he would’ve / could’ve received a harsher penalty and you’d be okay with that?

The penalty should be in response to the specific infraction, not dependent on who the rider happened to be.
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689
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689 7/21/2019 3:13pm
7/21/2019 3:13pm
GuyB wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/21/361745/s1200_072119springcreekracing9058.jpg[/img] This is part of the aftermath of the pileup exiting the first turn in the second 450 moto. Yes, this trio of riders took the...


This is part of the aftermath of the pileup exiting the first turn in the second 450 moto. Yes, this trio of riders took the early option to get back onto the track...through a giant pile of mud that had been scraped off the side of the track. They'd all been involved in the crash, and were moving at a lot lower speed than Alex would have had been going. If he'd tried to go through there at the speed he was going? They'd probably still be digging trying to find him.
Martin accelerates between that point and where he exited the track so if he wanted to he could have slowed down.

Not sure why he even ended up going off the track to start with? Looks like he has almost straightened up then just decides to swing wide.
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Racer111
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Racer111 7/21/2019 3:17pm
7/21/2019 3:17pm
GuyB wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/21/361745/s1200_072119springcreekracing9058.jpg[/img] This is part of the aftermath of the pileup exiting the first turn in the second 450 moto. Yes, this trio of riders took the...


This is part of the aftermath of the pileup exiting the first turn in the second 450 moto. Yes, this trio of riders took the early option to get back onto the track...through a giant pile of mud that had been scraped off the side of the track. They'd all been involved in the crash, and were moving at a lot lower speed than Alex would have had been going. If he'd tried to go through there at the speed he was going? They'd probably still be digging trying to find him.
689 wrote:
Martin accelerates between that point and where he exited the track so if he wanted to he could have slowed down. Not sure why he even...
Martin accelerates between that point and where he exited the track so if he wanted to he could have slowed down.

Not sure why he even ended up going off the track to start with? Looks like he has almost straightened up then just decides to swing wide.
Because it was a giant sea of scrapped off mud. Remember, they were actually at the track. He saw exactly where he was heading and saw it was best to exit. As you can see in the pic above it was a mess directly on the edge of the track.
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GuyB
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GuyB 7/21/2019 3:19pm
7/21/2019 3:19pm
SPYGUY wrote:
So you’re stating that if AC had pulled that exact same move yesterday then he would’ve / could’ve received a harsher penalty and you’d be okay...
So you’re stating that if AC had pulled that exact same move yesterday then he would’ve / could’ve received a harsher penalty and you’d be okay with that?

The penalty should be in response to the specific infraction, not dependent on who the rider happened to be.
The good news is, I'm not the judge and/or jury.

I think it is based on the specific infraction...but repeat offenders are going to be dealt with more harshly than a first-timer. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think I am.
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GODZILLA
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GODZILLA 7/21/2019 3:19pm
7/21/2019 3:19pm
If I remember well, one of the griefs against AC was he didn't slow enough during his "excursions"...
Still, Martin was absolutely pinned while off the track...
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PatrickEvans71 7/21/2019 3:21pm
7/21/2019 3:21pm
GuyB wrote:
I think that's why there is latitude built into the rules, and likely how a lot of us were raised. Don't learn your lesson the first...
I think that's why there is latitude built into the rules, and likely how a lot of us were raised. Don't learn your lesson the first time? The punishment will be worse the next time.
SPYGUY wrote:
So you’re stating that if AC had pulled that exact same move yesterday then he would’ve / could’ve received a harsher penalty and you’d be okay...
So you’re stating that if AC had pulled that exact same move yesterday then he would’ve / could’ve received a harsher penalty and you’d be okay with that?

The penalty should be in response to the specific infraction, not dependent on who the rider happened to be.
What did Alex do to you lol
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lostboy819
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lostboy819 7/21/2019 3:21pm
7/21/2019 3:21pm
GuyB wrote:
It was also his first offense, not his second or third...in the same moto. My guess is, the next time he does similar would be viewed...
It was also his first offense, not his second or third...in the same moto. My guess is, the next time he does similar would be viewed more harshly.
SPYGUY wrote:
Yeah, that's not how penalties should work and you're smart enough to know that. He went off the track in the first turn and re-entered 13...
Yeah, that's not how penalties should work and you're smart enough to know that.

He went off the track in the first turn and re-entered 13 seconds (!) later in 3rd or 4th position. If you blow the first turn and go off the track, sorry, you shouldn't get to turn that into a top 5 start.

This is way more egregious than what AC did.



Why aren't you bitching about the 3 other riders right behind him, and that was a huge berm of mud pushed up next to the track, it looks level but it wasn't he was smart not to trying to re enter the track there.
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Regis 7/21/2019 3:38pm
7/21/2019 3:38pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2019 3:45pm
I can honestly understand some of the Monday morning omg QB’s on here. Only because, TV never does anything justice with the track conditions, the speed, the wall of mud scraped off sitting on the outside, the banners.... there are probably 15-20 guys that are absolutely grateful he didn’t try to re-enter before the banners, his speed would have been slowed so much he would have taken out half the field.

I don’t even think he should have been penalized in this case. It’s a mud race, it’s completely different then a dry race scenario.
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Bramlett321 7/21/2019 3:44pm
7/21/2019 3:44pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track...
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track at Red Bud a few weeks ago, yet Martin was only penalized one position while AC was penalized two spots.

Martin could have re-entered the track almost immediately after having exited the track if he'd just checked up and made an attempt to turn sharper. No question, however, given the weak penalty, it paid off for him since he was able to re-enter the track in 3rd/4th intead of mid-pack.

https://youtu.be/NFIEZpRASKA?start=73

You have absolutely no idea what AMarts point of view was though!!

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crusty_xx 7/21/2019 3:49pm
7/21/2019 3:49pm
SPYGUY wrote:
So you’re stating that if AC had pulled that exact same move yesterday then he would’ve / could’ve received a harsher penalty and you’d be okay...
So you’re stating that if AC had pulled that exact same move yesterday then he would’ve / could’ve received a harsher penalty and you’d be okay with that?

The penalty should be in response to the specific infraction, not dependent on who the rider happened to be.
Of course...
If Barcia takes 3 people down one weekend he might get away with it.
If he does the same the following weekend don't you think he should be penalized or even disqualified??
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philG 7/21/2019 3:56pm
7/21/2019 3:56pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Yeah, how about before the banners, genius. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/21/361741/s1200_Screenshot_2019_07_21_AMA_Motocross_Spring_Creek_2019_250_Moto_2_YouTube.jpg[/img]
Yeah, how about before the banners, genius.


Exactly this, there was enough ' no banner ' area for anyone running wide on turn 1 to get back on the track, should have parked a truck on that access road.. Total Bullshit, didnt even try to get back on the track.. 10 spot minimum IMO
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689
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689 7/21/2019 4:30pm
7/21/2019 4:30pm
GuyB wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/21/361745/s1200_072119springcreekracing9058.jpg[/img] This is part of the aftermath of the pileup exiting the first turn in the second 450 moto. Yes, this trio of riders took the...


This is part of the aftermath of the pileup exiting the first turn in the second 450 moto. Yes, this trio of riders took the early option to get back onto the track...through a giant pile of mud that had been scraped off the side of the track. They'd all been involved in the crash, and were moving at a lot lower speed than Alex would have had been going. If he'd tried to go through there at the speed he was going? They'd probably still be digging trying to find him.
689 wrote:
Martin accelerates between that point and where he exited the track so if he wanted to he could have slowed down. Not sure why he even...
Martin accelerates between that point and where he exited the track so if he wanted to he could have slowed down.

Not sure why he even ended up going off the track to start with? Looks like he has almost straightened up then just decides to swing wide.
Racer111 wrote:
Because it was a giant sea of scrapped off mud. Remember, they were actually at the track. He saw exactly where he was heading and saw...
Because it was a giant sea of scrapped off mud. Remember, they were actually at the track. He saw exactly where he was heading and saw it was best to exit. As you can see in the pic above it was a mess directly on the edge of the track.
YZF (looks like Nichols?) rides through that line. If the track is that bad you should shut off earlier or if you end up going off slow down and concede you made an error.
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Racer111 7/21/2019 4:48pm
7/21/2019 4:48pm
689 wrote:
Martin accelerates between that point and where he exited the track so if he wanted to he could have slowed down. Not sure why he even...
Martin accelerates between that point and where he exited the track so if he wanted to he could have slowed down.

Not sure why he even ended up going off the track to start with? Looks like he has almost straightened up then just decides to swing wide.
Racer111 wrote:
Because it was a giant sea of scrapped off mud. Remember, they were actually at the track. He saw exactly where he was heading and saw...
Because it was a giant sea of scrapped off mud. Remember, they were actually at the track. He saw exactly where he was heading and saw it was best to exit. As you can see in the pic above it was a mess directly on the edge of the track.
689 wrote:
YZF (looks like Nichols?) rides through that line. If the track is that bad you should shut off earlier or if you end up going off...
YZF (looks like Nichols?) rides through that line. If the track is that bad you should shut off earlier or if you end up going off slow down and concede you made an error.
Sure!! Just drop anchor with 35-37 other guys coming at 55-60mph to rear end you in to the next county. Yeah, what could go wrong? CoolCool
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BS12
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BS12 7/21/2019 5:50pm
7/21/2019 5:50pm
Tough one... A-Mart technically exited the track and re-entered in a very similar position (running position 3rd/4th, not location) but in order to do so he was pinnnedddd up that exit road. Advantage gained or no? Penalise for exiting the track by making him stop, enter at the closest point to his exit, and essentially start dead last? At the same time it was his own doing that sent him wide and off course.

Simple and a tough one at the same time,
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500 Mike
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500 Mike 7/21/2019 6:05pm
7/21/2019 6:05pm
All I know is MX Sports or whom ever hands out these penalties, better get a handle on these off track excursions as they seem to be getting exponentially worse each week. Yesterday was ridiculous!!!
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Max D
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Max D 7/21/2019 6:21pm
7/21/2019 6:21pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2019 7:05pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track...
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track at Red Bud a few weeks ago, yet Martin was only penalized one position while AC was penalized two spots.

Martin could have re-entered the track almost immediately after having exited the track if he'd just checked up and made an attempt to turn sharper. No question, however, given the weak penalty, it paid off for him since he was able to re-enter the track in 3rd/4th intead of mid-pack.

https://youtu.be/NFIEZpRASKA?start=73

Racer111 wrote:
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line...
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line?

You have to be the smartest guy in the world. WhistlingWhistling
I can’t remember exactly which moto is was, but there was one guy who did exactly that. Not sure if it was the same spot, but a hill was jumped and some banners were definitely plowed over! It was hilarious 🤣
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TXDirt 7/21/2019 6:56pm
7/21/2019 6:56pm
I like some of the thinking in this thread. If it’s muddy cheating is ok.

This whole idea to re-enter where it’s “safe”, or as long as you don’t gain a position then track cutting is ok, is ridiculous.

The “safest” thing would have been for him to re-enter exactly where he went off. Going full throttle outside of the course is extremely dangerous.

Rule should be to re-enter where you went off. And if you don’t then you are docked 1 lap. Simple as that. Then the blatant track cutting will stop.

That was a total joke on Saturday with all the track cutting.
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Sully 7/21/2019 7:39pm
7/21/2019 7:39pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track...
Alex Martin gained way more of an advantage for what he did in yesterday's 2nd moto start than what AC gained for going off the track at Red Bud a few weeks ago, yet Martin was only penalized one position while AC was penalized two spots.

Martin could have re-entered the track almost immediately after having exited the track if he'd just checked up and made an attempt to turn sharper. No question, however, given the weak penalty, it paid off for him since he was able to re-enter the track in 3rd/4th intead of mid-pack.

https://youtu.be/NFIEZpRASKA?start=73

Racer111 wrote:
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line...
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line?

You have to be the smartest guy in the world. WhistlingWhistling
Max D wrote:
I can’t remember exactly which moto is was, but there was one guy who did exactly that. Not sure if it was the same spot, but...
I can’t remember exactly which moto is was, but there was one guy who did exactly that. Not sure if it was the same spot, but a hill was jumped and some banners were definitely plowed over! It was hilarious 🤣
That was Zane Merrett (sp?) in the first 250 moto. The kid barreled down the hill about 10 feet in front of where AMart is in the shot above, and plowed straight through the banners.
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mx295
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mx295 7/21/2019 8:14pm
7/21/2019 8:14pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2019 9:51pm
Regis wrote:
I can honestly understand some of the Monday morning omg QB’s on here. Only because, TV never does anything justice with the track conditions, the speed...
I can honestly understand some of the Monday morning omg QB’s on here. Only because, TV never does anything justice with the track conditions, the speed, the wall of mud scraped off sitting on the outside, the banners.... there are probably 15-20 guys that are absolutely grateful he didn’t try to re-enter before the banners, his speed would have been slowed so much he would have taken out half the field.

I don’t even think he should have been penalized in this case. It’s a mud race, it’s completely different then a dry race scenario.
Didn’t you go off track at a fairgrounds race in the AV and crashed in the mud that was pushed off the track? I remember it took us a while to get your bike out.
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