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Any Updates on Honda from previous demos?
I have ridden Stark and in motocross there is zero need for clutch even im using it alot with 125 and 250f. If Stark was allowed to compere Ernee it would been ahead of big two from Japan and Stark has still more coming in next iteration. Kawasaki also made statement they will bring E-line bikes by 2028 but I guess they will start from kids bikes.
Was that when Trey was on Gypsy tales? I thought I remembered him saying the bike was good but but I could be mistaken. It looks the part anyway.
I would say right side "gearbox" cover looks different but on left side of bike hasnt changed much. Maybe its more production ready parts then first prototypes.
Honda electric dirtbike prototype first went public in 2017 as a Mugen, then got rebadged in 2019, first race in Japan in 2023 (15 min) then not much.
They have of course dissected the Stark Varg, no idea what took them so long between 2017 and 2023 but now they know there is a market, they know there already is some competition plus a gazillion Chinese e dirt bikes coming as well.
If they can make a bike even slightly inferior to the Varg (battery seems small) but with their own touch it could sell really well (brand reputation, huge customer base and dealer network and so on).
Yamaha association with EM really helps them developing much faster, with EM trademark clutch they already have their own twist on this, they could well come to market sooner than the reds.
Their surprising joint exhibition at the biggest race of the year shows that they want to step up their communication about these bikes and they will help set up some kind of electric championship/exhibition cup.
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Old bike on the bottom picture (red cap with the Mugen logo) doesn't look that much different from the current bike (ok, except the cap turned blue between 2019 and 2023).
One at MXON has clear aluminium no blue one anymore and maybe looks more ready to production.
Yamaha working with EM seems more like E-MTB scene where you have engines from support companys and frame comes from main brand.
I don't remember, but it was probably in the last two years or so.
I do remember him saying that Honda sees electric as its own category/addition and not a replacement, so that's good to know.
Yamaha invested in EM (a tiny company with 20 employees) in late 2024, one year later they revealed their first common prototype, now with another year they do the first public exhibition laps, the third year may be the start of the production.
I get your comparison with e-mtb, EM might be like Yamaha own electric workshop or electric motor and system design office. I don't see them working for another OEM.
Yamaha is at pains to show that with their shroud decal 🤣
It's a bit comical.
Yes they do appear very concerned by the pushback they might encounter.
People often miss that if you don't like electrics it doesn't matter to OEMs like Honda or Yamaha cause they will carry on with gas bikes for a while. It just means you're not their target demographic. They're mostly trying to attract younger riders that might be new to this, not old geezers.
Well, I'm an old geezer, and I'm all for it. I don't think it has anything to do with age, it has to do with your opinion of the pace of the sport's evolution. I grew up in a time (1970s/80s) where the bikes changed radically every year, so I don't see radical change as a problem. I like it. On the other hand, people who grew up during the modern 4-stroke era probably have a very different view, as all they've known their entire adult lives is a slow, methodical, careful progression. When i look at the comments made about electric bikes, they're usually the ones lighting their hair on fire, and I get it. For them, it's too much change happening far too quickly, regardless if it's better.
I think a very high percentage of you given the chance to demo every bike out right now and if initial purchase price wasn’t a concern, would choose the stark varg.
It’s seriously insane how fun it is. It will always be my primary bike now until another electric is at least similar in comparison.
I’m so stoked to see Yamaha and Honda finally enter the game. I hope they sell like hotcakes so we see more manufacturers join in.
I think the Yamaha is right there with the Honda if not a little more production ready. I don’t think either of them are going to be as fast or as good of a motor/ battery package as the stark has. It will take a couple years of production. I can’t speak on handling of either but I own a 25 YZ450 and I’ve ridden my buddy’s 26 stark a few times and they both handle great. I think it’s a great time to be alive with all the options we will have available to us in the next couple years. I’ll always have a ICE bike if they still sell them but I’ll definitely have a e bike in the garage too. I was a septic until I rode my buddy’s stark and it was a blast to ride. I was grinning ear to ear.
I think everyone or most who ride the stark are blown away and think it is amazing at first. But then every person I know including myself who have owned one eventually start to realise it's limitations and go back to real bikes. Electric is so far from being a replacement to gas it's not funny. The technology upgrade that has to happen for it equal current gas bikes will not happen in any of our lifetimes.
Battery tech or something else?
Elaborate
Pit Row
No pro will ever be able to do a 30 minute outdoor moto on an electric bike in any of our lifetime. I'm a fat old vet and can flatten a stark battery in 20 mins on a sand track. Solid state batteries is the next big thing and they are talking a 50% gain on lithion ion at best. I am no battery guru but even a 50% gain on what stark have now still won't be good enough to match current gas bikes.
Electric pros cons list for me
Pros:
basically can make it any power from a nothing to faster than a 450
Traction control is unlike anything gas bikes can offer, truly insane how good it is
No stalling, power always on tap instantly. No clutch
can have rear hand brake.
Easily change maps/power curve
Can adjust engine braking to whatever u want
Pretty much no maintenance
Quiet, can ride it practically anywhere
Crawl control (I live with stairs and can easily get my bike up/down the stairs walking it). Reverse too.
Gyro in the air, brake tapping no worries of a stall
Cons:
Heavier
Battery life (although I get plenty ride time on mine especially if you do trail stuff I can get quite a long time on trails, track is less but still solid). This can be a big con though for an A class only track rider that doesn’t want to wait a bit in between motos
I see battery tech being the biggest improvement to be made and it’s not super far from being significantly improved as far as wh/weight. Other than that I literally have no complaints. It’s the funnest I’ve ever had riding.
It also solve a lot of issues local tracks deal with. I know mannnnny tracks that close due to noise from houses being built near the tracks.
Battery tech and electronic tech in general. Not only does the current battery tech lack the capacity to match gas bikes but when pushed hard they run hot and derate to stop failure.
This might sound harsh and I in no way mean it to be offensive to you. What I have found with electric is the slower the rider the more they love it and have more positives to say aboit it compared to gas. This is just a general observation I have noticed with people that have owned them and now don't around me.
Yamaha and Honda can suck it. Just ordered this. Bring it bitches.
No offense taken man. But I don’t think you’re faster than Aj catanzaro, Josh hill, Carson brown, duke gomez, Sebastien tortelli, Tyler Livesay, Brian hsu, Michael hicks, I can keep going….
Nope I'm definitely not, but how many of them have seriously raced one at a high level and not just used them as play riding toy for a bit of fun. The answer is none.
And I'm talking moto, not supercross/arenacross or enduro with a team of people to change a battery
Alright man we’re derailing the thread. Theres plenty proof of these being raced at levels pretty much nobody in this thread will ever achieve.
But anyway, we know our stances here let’s move one. I’m on the positive side of electric bikes and truly believe it’s a big future in our sport. Absolutely stoked to see the big names enter the game.
I'm on the realistic side of electric and know it will be a sideshow to real bikes in our lifetime
It’s like having a “I bought this before Elon went crazy” bumper sticker on a Tesla. Trying to virtue signal to both camps.
Smith I remember you've been disappointed with your Varg, especially racing in the sand, which is definitely their Achilles' heel. Was it with a MX1.0 or MX1.2 by the way?
Anyway, Stark has been scoring top6 in France MX Elite for 2 years now. These are not are arenacross nor exhibition laps, these are 25 min + 2 laps races.
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