Gas $ 2.0 ?

Alex814
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1290
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12/18/2014
Location
USA
9/25/2026 9:34am
early wrote:

Do you guys know any owners of independent small retail businesses or restaurants? Those businesses are the best bell-weather of economic conditions.

Alex814 wrote:

Are you referring to before or after they were shut down at gunpoint in 2021?

early wrote:
Lol everyone was open in 2021, it's 2020 when that happened, but the PPP program actually worked for my friends and their actual employees who were...

Lol everyone was open in 2021, it's 2020 when that happened, but the PPP program actually worked for my friends and their actual employees who were actually affected. I'm talking about right now of course.

2020 PPP loans benefitted small businesses, correct. Again, 2020. 

You're wrong on "everyone being open" in 2021, you should ask AI about that and also revisit the 2020 debates, I don't want to get banned by expanding it. 

No I don't have small business anecdotals to share, feel free. Is beef costing 10% more or something? What's the end product selling for?

If small businesses are somehow suffering while GDP grows 5+% please explain that in detail. 

5
early
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Location
University Heights, OH, USA
9/25/2026 9:45am
Alex814 wrote:

Are you referring to before or after they were shut down at gunpoint in 2021?

early wrote:
Lol everyone was open in 2021, it's 2020 when that happened, but the PPP program actually worked for my friends and their actual employees who were...

Lol everyone was open in 2021, it's 2020 when that happened, but the PPP program actually worked for my friends and their actual employees who were actually affected. I'm talking about right now of course.

Alex814 wrote:
2020 PPP loans benefitted small businesses, correct. Again, 2020. You're wrong on "everyone being open" in 2021, you should ask AI about that and also revisit the...

2020 PPP loans benefitted small businesses, correct. Again, 2020. 

You're wrong on "everyone being open" in 2021, you should ask AI about that and also revisit the 2020 debates, I don't want to get banned by expanding it. 

No I don't have small business anecdotals to share, feel free. Is beef costing 10% more or something? What's the end product selling for?

If small businesses are somehow suffering while GDP grows 5+% please explain that in detail. 

Small independent retail and service businesses are some of the most elastic expenditures for people and are the first cutbacks. GDP and wages are a measure of gross monetary exchange, not a measure of profits. Maintaining steady cash flow with rising costs does not equal growth.

Yes basically everything was open in my state by 2021.

Alex814
Posts
1290
Joined
12/18/2014
Location
USA
9/25/2026 10:02am
early wrote:
Lol everyone was open in 2021, it's 2020 when that happened, but the PPP program actually worked for my friends and their actual employees who were...

Lol everyone was open in 2021, it's 2020 when that happened, but the PPP program actually worked for my friends and their actual employees who were actually affected. I'm talking about right now of course.

Alex814 wrote:
2020 PPP loans benefitted small businesses, correct. Again, 2020. You're wrong on "everyone being open" in 2021, you should ask AI about that and also revisit the...

2020 PPP loans benefitted small businesses, correct. Again, 2020. 

You're wrong on "everyone being open" in 2021, you should ask AI about that and also revisit the 2020 debates, I don't want to get banned by expanding it. 

No I don't have small business anecdotals to share, feel free. Is beef costing 10% more or something? What's the end product selling for?

If small businesses are somehow suffering while GDP grows 5+% please explain that in detail. 

early wrote:
Small independent retail and service businesses are some of the most elastic expenditures for people and are the first cutbacks. GDP and wages are a measure...

Small independent retail and service businesses are some of the most elastic expenditures for people and are the first cutbacks. GDP and wages are a measure of gross monetary exchange, not a measure of profits. Maintaining steady cash flow with rising costs does not equal growth.

Yes basically everything was open in my state by 2021.

So, pivoting a bit over to retail and food service sales, we're up 6.0% in nominal dollars YoY as of August 2026. 

3.4% inflation even while gas is factored in. Meaning the rest of the basket is below that number. 

What are we talking about here?

3
early
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Location
University Heights, OH, USA
9/25/2026 10:16am
Alex814 wrote:
2020 PPP loans benefitted small businesses, correct. Again, 2020. You're wrong on "everyone being open" in 2021, you should ask AI about that and also revisit the...

2020 PPP loans benefitted small businesses, correct. Again, 2020. 

You're wrong on "everyone being open" in 2021, you should ask AI about that and also revisit the 2020 debates, I don't want to get banned by expanding it. 

No I don't have small business anecdotals to share, feel free. Is beef costing 10% more or something? What's the end product selling for?

If small businesses are somehow suffering while GDP grows 5+% please explain that in detail. 

early wrote:
Small independent retail and service businesses are some of the most elastic expenditures for people and are the first cutbacks. GDP and wages are a measure...

Small independent retail and service businesses are some of the most elastic expenditures for people and are the first cutbacks. GDP and wages are a measure of gross monetary exchange, not a measure of profits. Maintaining steady cash flow with rising costs does not equal growth.

Yes basically everything was open in my state by 2021.

Alex814 wrote:
So, pivoting a bit over to retail and food service sales, we're up 6.0% in nominal dollars YoY as of August 2026. 3.4% inflation even while gas...

So, pivoting a bit over to retail and food service sales, we're up 6.0% in nominal dollars YoY as of August 2026. 

3.4% inflation even while gas is factored in. Meaning the rest of the basket is below that number. 

What are we talking about here?

You are talking about using the national Gross Domestic Product and Consumer Price Index to determine the profitability of independent service and retail businesses, which is, uh, not a good way to do that.  

Look at the Producers Price Index and Employee Cost Index for the relevant industries for a more accurate way of calculating profitability. 

The Shop

TAUTOG
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Mohrsville, PA, USA
9/25/2026 10:26am

5.0.12 Released - Invision Community Insider - Invision Community

 

2
prozach
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1347
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Location
Eureka, CA, USA
9/25/2026 1:46pm

I don't know much.  But I know enough to recognize there is some absolute fuckery happening with gas and diesel prices right now.  Some people are going to be way better off when/if this all settles.  And it's mostly not going to be any off us.  

7
RDnutz
Posts
1011
Joined
2/13/2021
Location
Dolores, CO, USA
9/25/2026 2:32pm
early wrote:

Do you guys know any owners of independent small retail businesses or restaurants? Those businesses are the best bell-weather of economic conditions.

some economists swear by the long-haul trucking industry as the best predictor of an expanding or contracting economy. Rail hauls a lot of goods long distance point to point. but it is the truckers that go local distributer and last mile to fill our stores, restaurants, gas stations, etc. where us consumers notice it most. When long established trucking lines consolidate or liquidate and orders for new rigs dry up the economy is contracting and bad times are coming.

2
peelout
Posts
18424
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1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT, USA
9/25/2026 2:40pm
prozach wrote:
I don't know much.  But I know enough to recognize there is some absolute fuckery happening with gas and diesel prices right now.  Some people are...

I don't know much.  But I know enough to recognize there is some absolute fuckery happening with gas and diesel prices right now.  Some people are going to be way better off when/if this all settles.  And it's mostly not going to be any off us.  

good friend of mine is a higher up at Maverick, last year he had around a 250% bonus. based off last year he's guessing this year will be 350% or more. that will amount to around $1m in bonus at the end of the year.  that company is printing money every day, it's insane.

he drives a hybrid Prius to work.

i'm paying $6.48/gal. in diesel.

 

4
byke
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Location
Auburn, CA, USA
9/25/2026 3:09pm

The force that all these economic hits are up against, is literally an addiction (to consumerism/spending), and it takes something lifechanging to break addiction. 

3
prozach
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1347
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Location
Eureka, CA, USA
9/25/2026 3:58pm
prozach wrote:
I don't know much.  But I know enough to recognize there is some absolute fuckery happening with gas and diesel prices right now.  Some people are...

I don't know much.  But I know enough to recognize there is some absolute fuckery happening with gas and diesel prices right now.  Some people are going to be way better off when/if this all settles.  And it's mostly not going to be any off us.  

peelout wrote:
good friend of mine is a higher up at Maverick, last year he had around a 250% bonus. based off last year he's guessing this year...

good friend of mine is a higher up at Maverick, last year he had around a 250% bonus. based off last year he's guessing this year will be 350% or more. that will amount to around $1m in bonus at the end of the year.  that company is printing money every day, it's insane.

he drives a hybrid Prius to work.

i'm paying $6.48/gal. in diesel.

 

Yep.  Insanity.  We need a teddy trust busting President that will promote actually competitive markets in this country.  

2
1
byke
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Location
Auburn, CA, USA
9/25/2026 5:05pm
prozach wrote:
I don't know much.  But I know enough to recognize there is some absolute fuckery happening with gas and diesel prices right now.  Some people are...

I don't know much.  But I know enough to recognize there is some absolute fuckery happening with gas and diesel prices right now.  Some people are going to be way better off when/if this all settles.  And it's mostly not going to be any off us.  

peelout wrote:
good friend of mine is a higher up at Maverick, last year he had around a 250% bonus. based off last year he's guessing this year...

good friend of mine is a higher up at Maverick, last year he had around a 250% bonus. based off last year he's guessing this year will be 350% or more. that will amount to around $1m in bonus at the end of the year.  that company is printing money every day, it's insane.

he drives a hybrid Prius to work.

i'm paying $6.48/gal. in diesel.

 

prozach wrote:

Yep.  Insanity.  We need a teddy trust busting President that will promote actually competitive markets in this country.  

It's one of those things that sounds good, but quickly becomes enormously complex and often ends up being anti-capitalist. You kind of have to go back to the beginning and ask ourselves what kind of country we are. Do we believe so strongly in specific principles that we adopt them as purely as we can and let the chips fall where they may no matter what, or are we seeking a specific result and are willing to shape the country however is necessary to achieve that result? We were originally setup as the former, but people are losing sight of that and are operating as though it's the latter. We're ideologically broken. 

2
prozach
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Location
Eureka, CA, USA
9/25/2026 5:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2026 5:28pm
peelout wrote:
good friend of mine is a higher up at Maverick, last year he had around a 250% bonus. based off last year he's guessing this year...

good friend of mine is a higher up at Maverick, last year he had around a 250% bonus. based off last year he's guessing this year will be 350% or more. that will amount to around $1m in bonus at the end of the year.  that company is printing money every day, it's insane.

he drives a hybrid Prius to work.

i'm paying $6.48/gal. in diesel.

 

prozach wrote:

Yep.  Insanity.  We need a teddy trust busting President that will promote actually competitive markets in this country.  

byke wrote:
It's one of those things that sounds good, but quickly becomes enormously complex and often ends up being anti-capitalist. You kind of have to go back...

It's one of those things that sounds good, but quickly becomes enormously complex and often ends up being anti-capitalist. You kind of have to go back to the beginning and ask ourselves what kind of country we are. Do we believe so strongly in specific principles that we adopt them as purely as we can and let the chips fall where they may no matter what, or are we seeking a specific result and are willing to shape the country however is necessary to achieve that result? We were originally setup as the former, but people are losing sight of that and are operating as though it's the latter. We're ideologically broken. 

Capitalism without adequate competition isn't real capitalism.  Regulation that creates too many barriers to entry isn't real capitalism either.  Our government is full of people pretending to be for capitalism.  But really are just for whatever makes their investments the most profitable.  It's another era of crony capitalism.  

6
byke
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3178
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Location
Auburn, CA, USA
9/25/2026 5:51pm
prozach wrote:

Yep.  Insanity.  We need a teddy trust busting President that will promote actually competitive markets in this country.  

byke wrote:
It's one of those things that sounds good, but quickly becomes enormously complex and often ends up being anti-capitalist. You kind of have to go back...

It's one of those things that sounds good, but quickly becomes enormously complex and often ends up being anti-capitalist. You kind of have to go back to the beginning and ask ourselves what kind of country we are. Do we believe so strongly in specific principles that we adopt them as purely as we can and let the chips fall where they may no matter what, or are we seeking a specific result and are willing to shape the country however is necessary to achieve that result? We were originally setup as the former, but people are losing sight of that and are operating as though it's the latter. We're ideologically broken. 

prozach wrote:
Capitalism without adequate competition isn't real capitalism.  Regulation that creates too many barriers to entry isn't real capitalism either.  Our government is full of people pretending...

Capitalism without adequate competition isn't real capitalism.  Regulation that creates too many barriers to entry isn't real capitalism either.  Our government is full of people pretending to be for capitalism.  But really are just for whatever makes their investments the most profitable.  It's another era of crony capitalism.  

Kind of, because competition is something that sounds good, but what actually happens is anti-capitalist intervention to ensure that nobody really wins or loses that competition, which isn't how competition works. Things get weird real quick when you think about what is being said with intervention to "create competition ". If you're winning that competition, to you intervention would reduce your ability to win, meaning that the competition is rigged. It's really more of an effort to even things out, which is arguably closer to socialism or communism than it is to capitalism.

prozach
Posts
1347
Joined
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Location
Eureka, CA, USA
9/25/2026 5:57pm
byke wrote:
It's one of those things that sounds good, but quickly becomes enormously complex and often ends up being anti-capitalist. You kind of have to go back...

It's one of those things that sounds good, but quickly becomes enormously complex and often ends up being anti-capitalist. You kind of have to go back to the beginning and ask ourselves what kind of country we are. Do we believe so strongly in specific principles that we adopt them as purely as we can and let the chips fall where they may no matter what, or are we seeking a specific result and are willing to shape the country however is necessary to achieve that result? We were originally setup as the former, but people are losing sight of that and are operating as though it's the latter. We're ideologically broken. 

prozach wrote:
Capitalism without adequate competition isn't real capitalism.  Regulation that creates too many barriers to entry isn't real capitalism either.  Our government is full of people pretending...

Capitalism without adequate competition isn't real capitalism.  Regulation that creates too many barriers to entry isn't real capitalism either.  Our government is full of people pretending to be for capitalism.  But really are just for whatever makes their investments the most profitable.  It's another era of crony capitalism.  

byke wrote:
Kind of, because competition is something that sounds good, but what actually happens is anti-capitalist intervention to ensure that nobody really wins or loses that competition...

Kind of, because competition is something that sounds good, but what actually happens is anti-capitalist intervention to ensure that nobody really wins or loses that competition, which isn't how competition works. Things get weird real quick when you think about what is being said with intervention to "create competition ". If you're winning that competition, to you intervention would reduce your ability to win, meaning that the competition is rigged. It's really more of an effort to even things out, which is arguably closer to socialism or communism than it is to capitalism.

I don't follow you.  Sorry.  Competition is good, but anything to insure competition is bad? Plenty of history of unregulated capitalism being pretty harmful.  

1
byke
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Location
Auburn, CA, USA
9/25/2026 6:26pm
prozach wrote:
Capitalism without adequate competition isn't real capitalism.  Regulation that creates too many barriers to entry isn't real capitalism either.  Our government is full of people pretending...

Capitalism without adequate competition isn't real capitalism.  Regulation that creates too many barriers to entry isn't real capitalism either.  Our government is full of people pretending to be for capitalism.  But really are just for whatever makes their investments the most profitable.  It's another era of crony capitalism.  

byke wrote:
Kind of, because competition is something that sounds good, but what actually happens is anti-capitalist intervention to ensure that nobody really wins or loses that competition...

Kind of, because competition is something that sounds good, but what actually happens is anti-capitalist intervention to ensure that nobody really wins or loses that competition, which isn't how competition works. Things get weird real quick when you think about what is being said with intervention to "create competition ". If you're winning that competition, to you intervention would reduce your ability to win, meaning that the competition is rigged. It's really more of an effort to even things out, which is arguably closer to socialism or communism than it is to capitalism.

prozach wrote:

I don't follow you.  Sorry.  Competition is good, but anything to insure competition is bad? Plenty of history of unregulated capitalism being pretty harmful.  

Good and bad don't work for the subject, because back to what I touched on earlier, are we following founding principles no matter what, or doing whatever is necessary to shape a specific result? Because  capitalism both created the VCR industry and also killed the VCR industry, so capitalism isn't there for good or bad, it's just an economic system which best represents our freedom ideologies. Freedom let's us flip off cops and call them cocksuckers, but that's not really "good" and is definitely harmful to the morale of those in law enforcement. So, when we let what's  harmful guide us, we kind of have no choice but to stomp on the ideologies that brought us here.

RDnutz
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Location
Dolores, CO, USA
9/25/2026 7:16pm

I think people confuse Capitalism with our actual Laissez Faire based system of economics and government. I won't paste the AI slop summarized bullet points on this. The wiki does it better. See here if interested:

Laissez-faire - Wikipedia

 

1
soggy
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USA
9/26/2026 8:36am
Alex814 wrote:

How's your GDP growth doing? 

We're at +5.1% GDP here in the US against 3.4% inflation. 

Simple minds will be along to downvote the facts in 3,2,1...

TeamGreen wrote:

Wages are doing pretty good, too. 

Alex814 wrote:

Yep. Things look quite different when you expand beyond a propagandized one-dimensional message. 

Ok Scott Bessent

2
TeamGreen
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9/26/2026 8:41am

May I offer this as someone who’s shit the bed on these matters a few times…

Some of you have crossed into politics. I’d suggest backing away before we see ML’s new rules used in full effect. 

4
soggy
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USA
9/26/2026 10:27am

Weren’t you bragging about being vitals most banned member?

3
TeamGreen
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9/26/2026 2:38pm

Soggy, you just can’t help yourself. Can you? 🤣

1
Vet57
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2580
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Location
BRO Town, MA, USA
9/28/2026 3:09am

Will be tough here in New England. Just filled my oil tank...$1600, WTF. $6 gallon and rising for home heating oil. 

1
lumpy790
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Location
York, SC, USA
9/28/2026 8:09am
TeamGreen wrote:
May I offer this as someone who’s shit the bed on these matters a few times…Some of you have crossed into politics. I’d suggest backing away...

May I offer this as someone who’s shit the bed on these matters a few times…

Some of you have crossed into politics. I’d suggest backing away before we see ML’s new rules used in full effect. 

Politics of a non winning war that we are in driving up gas/diesel prices go hand and hand don't they???

2
2
Kenny Banyan
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Location
NW Washington, WA, USA
9/28/2026 7:06pm

I saw Diesel at $7.59 today. 😳

TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
10/1/2026 3:48pm

Driving mostly my turbo-cars so that I can run some e85 with my regular. Averaging $5.30/gallon. 

In Nevada I’m right at $5/gallon

Funny thing, I seem to be using the MachE more lately 🤣

I wonder when my Slate will be done?!

RDnutz
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Location
Dolores, CO, USA
10/1/2026 5:48pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Driving mostly my turbo-cars so that I can run some e85 with my regular. Averaging $5.30/gallon. In Nevada I’m right at $5/gallonFunny thing, I seem to be...

Driving mostly my turbo-cars so that I can run some e85 with my regular. Averaging $5.30/gallon. 

In Nevada I’m right at $5/gallon

Funny thing, I seem to be using the MachE more lately 🤣

I wonder when my Slate will be done?!

yesterday I used E-85 to top off the tank in my 2013 Grand Cherokee with Flex Fuel motor. Years ago, I remember E-85 being a good 25% cheaper than regular gas and recently saw articles claiming people were running E-85 for more power in performance cars claiming as high as 100+ Octane. I was sad to find the Maverick station I purchased it at in Durango, CO called E-85 "environment friendly" alternative to Regular- but it was only 10c cheaper ($4.59/gal) and 86 octane compared to regular at 85 Octane. 

TeamGreen
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37778
Joined
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Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
10/1/2026 6:24pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Driving mostly my turbo-cars so that I can run some e85 with my regular. Averaging $5.30/gallon. In Nevada I’m right at $5/gallonFunny thing, I seem to be...

Driving mostly my turbo-cars so that I can run some e85 with my regular. Averaging $5.30/gallon. 

In Nevada I’m right at $5/gallon

Funny thing, I seem to be using the MachE more lately 🤣

I wonder when my Slate will be done?!

RDnutz wrote:
yesterday I used E-85 to top off the tank in my 2013 Grand Cherokee with Flex Fuel motor. Years ago, I remember E-85 being a good...

yesterday I used E-85 to top off the tank in my 2013 Grand Cherokee with Flex Fuel motor. Years ago, I remember E-85 being a good 25% cheaper than regular gas and recently saw articles claiming people were running E-85 for more power in performance cars claiming as high as 100+ Octane. I was sad to find the Maverick station I purchased it at in Durango, CO called E-85 "environment friendly" alternative to Regular- but it was only 10c cheaper ($4.59/gal) and 86 octane compared to regular at 85 Octane. 

I’m paying $2.89 for e85.

Alex814
Posts
1290
Joined
12/18/2014
Location
USA
10/1/2026 7:46pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Driving mostly my turbo-cars so that I can run some e85 with my regular. Averaging $5.30/gallon. In Nevada I’m right at $5/gallonFunny thing, I seem to be...

Driving mostly my turbo-cars so that I can run some e85 with my regular. Averaging $5.30/gallon. 

In Nevada I’m right at $5/gallon

Funny thing, I seem to be using the MachE more lately 🤣

I wonder when my Slate will be done?!

RDnutz wrote:
yesterday I used E-85 to top off the tank in my 2013 Grand Cherokee with Flex Fuel motor. Years ago, I remember E-85 being a good...

yesterday I used E-85 to top off the tank in my 2013 Grand Cherokee with Flex Fuel motor. Years ago, I remember E-85 being a good 25% cheaper than regular gas and recently saw articles claiming people were running E-85 for more power in performance cars claiming as high as 100+ Octane. I was sad to find the Maverick station I purchased it at in Durango, CO called E-85 "environment friendly" alternative to Regular- but it was only 10c cheaper ($4.59/gal) and 86 octane compared to regular at 85 Octane. 

Sounds more like E15... E85 should be/is dramatically cheaper than gasoline. 

RDnutz
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Location
Dolores, CO, USA
10/2/2026 7:46am
Alex814 wrote:

Sounds more like E15... E85 should be/is dramatically cheaper than gasoline. 

yeah I think you're right. They had 1 Yellow pump handle and E85 on my mind...

Back to Top Tier only at cheapest cash prices I can find 🤑

soggy
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9039
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Location
USA
10/2/2026 11:19am
Alex814 wrote:

Sounds more like E15... E85 should be/is dramatically cheaper than gasoline. 

RDnutz wrote:
yeah I think you're right. They had 1 Yellow pump handle and E85 on my mind...Back to Top Tier only at cheapest cash prices I can...

yeah I think you're right. They had 1 Yellow pump handle and E85 on my mind...

Back to Top Tier only at cheapest cash prices I can find 🤑

E85 is around a dollar cheaper in Utah

1
Reese95w
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244
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Location
Kent, WA, USA
1 day ago

Consolidating Kent Shell Station #1 price history into a single post, (with removal of any political commentary).

2026 05 09 01 22026 05 17 03 22026 05 23 01 2.jpg?VersionId=FV7JKgipnBS5xYB.JGkjcp9pAF2026 06 23 01 22026 07 14 01 2.jpg?VersionId=m81xXFtQEE2z1jhs2FurC0V FhBUJVV2026 07 22 01 2.jpg?VersionId=EgOH cjihoGDlpXKGgqoMiAV2026 07 26 01 12 12026 07 31 04 02026 08 12 04 1.jpg?VersionId=v72zOQn1nfj2026 09 06 01 0.jpg?VersionId=2AXXuT42ClRlZpJnXk2026 09 22 052026 10 14 01.jpg?VersionId=23OG1wSzAvMEzyJ8kp

 

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