Is this the Future of MX ?

pops
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1 day ago
FMB2.0 wrote:
Let's look at the positives and the negatives...A typical KTM motor is comprised of over 350 moving parts.A Stark has around 10 moving parts.It's makes...

Let's look at the positives and the negatives...

A typical KTM motor is comprised of over 350 moving parts.

A Stark has around 10 moving parts.

It's makes no sense that an EV costs around the same price as an ICE vehicle 

That is the short list. Feel free to add to either.

EV Negatives

Cost

Spare battery cost (Bonnell)

With current battery technology poor range and charging time.

No clutch 

No gearbox

No noise 

Currently charged at tracks with a generator 

Positives:

No tail pipe emissions

Easy for a beginner to ride (no clutch)

Very little maintainence

Power dialed in with an App 

No noise should allow more riding areas.

More riders

More sponsors 

More interest from younger generations

  • A KTM 450 relies on an extensive network of supporting systems: a fuel system (tank, fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel injectors), an exhaust system (header pipe, mid-pipe, muffler), a complex cooling system with multiple hoses, and engine/transmission oil circuits.
  • Stark replaces all of those systems with a unified structural battery pack and a central inverter/motor assembly. The battery case serves as a structural member of the frame to keep the part count low. It has no airbox, no throttle body, no exhaust, and no fuel delivery network.
  • We could argue till we're blue in the face, but their coning.
msp332 wrote:

Your AI shitpost left out weight. 270 lbs. I ride a 125 because I love the light weight.

FMB2.0 wrote:
That wasn't AI. They say the DC powered Bonnell weighs less than 220,lbs (100 kilos)I have no skin in this game. Listen to Ping's interview. He...

That wasn't AI. They say the DC powered Bonnell weighs less than 220,lbs (100 kilos)

I have no skin in this game. Listen to Ping's interview. He made some valid points and raised most of the right questions.

Noise has always been our biggest fight.

Battery range and lack of charging infrastructure is the sticking point that Will be resolved in the future.

If you were a promoter of EV racing, you could do what the Dirt Diggers do at Hangtown in their campground so that there are not multiple generators running.

Rent one quiett big generator and provide charging.

You gotta wonder how long untill tracks tie into the grid and provide charging ports ?

The AMA went to four strokes because of noise? they said it was the smoke from the two strokes!! smoke from two strokes and dust have a lot more in common and noise is a separate issue!! turns out the four strokes, make more noise than the two strokes, but they don’t have the smoke!! And every bike makes dust!

2
jemcee
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1 day ago
pops wrote:

Hopefully not!! Austin rode one of the Starks the other day and says it’s the biggest piece of shit he’s ever been on!!!

8500rpm wrote:
Austin is one lucky guy, since there are so many bad dirt bikes with bad suspension and other 'challenges' so if the Stark Varg is worse...

Austin is one lucky guy, since there are so many bad dirt bikes with bad suspension and other 'challenges' so if the Stark Varg is worse than all of these... he must have been a factory rider Wink that have access to the best-of-the-best... since most even pro reviewers think it's just excellent! ...not, not a SX or MX winning machine on pro level, but far far from 'piece of shit' Smile

btw, I miss Austin, was always cheering for him!

pops wrote:
I’ll see if I can remember his exact quotes! He said that having first through fifth  in a half turn was scary if it was the...

I’ll see if I can remember his exact quotes! He said that having first through fifth  in a half turn was scary if it was the least bit rough. He said whiskey throttle on that bike would be deadly! Also, he said it just had some quirks that didn’t feel right as far as the dirt bikes he has ridden the last few years. Also, since he has less strength in his left arm and  holds on more with his right, it can get a little sketchy with that much throttle that quickly. He was seriously thinking about getting a personal one………Not now. Thank you for being a fan.!!! it was fun while it lasted!👍

So 'biggest piece of shit he's ever been on' was what you took from that?

5
jemcee
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1 day ago

I don't really understand why people have such an adverse reaction to the idea of them (I mean I'm sure it's got absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything to do with 'masculinity')

As others have said the idea of being able to do motos and no one else being bothered is a huge plus!

Why does the future of our sport have to be either or? There's still 2 strokes after the 4 strokes took over 

2
7
msp332
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1 day ago
FMB2.0 wrote:
That wasn't AI. They say the DC powered Bonnell weighs less than 220,lbs (100 kilos)I have no skin in this game. Listen to Ping's interview. He...

That wasn't AI. They say the DC powered Bonnell weighs less than 220,lbs (100 kilos)

I have no skin in this game. Listen to Ping's interview. He made some valid points and raised most of the right questions.

Noise has always been our biggest fight.

Battery range and lack of charging infrastructure is the sticking point that Will be resolved in the future.

If you were a promoter of EV racing, you could do what the Dirt Diggers do at Hangtown in their campground so that there are not multiple generators running.

Rent one quiett big generator and provide charging.

You gotta wonder how long untill tracks tie into the grid and provide charging ports ?

sorry, it sounded artificially intelligent. Weight is the biggest negative for me. I also have my doubts about the chassis, battery durability, and general brand and manufacturing reliability.

FYI the Bonnell 902, which appears to be the full-sized Varg equivalent, hasn't been listed yet but the weight appears to be right around the Alta MXR or the Stark Varg.

The Shop

msp332
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1 day ago
pops wrote:
I put a few of the reasons Austin didn’t like it in my first post up there maybe on the first page maybe on the second...

I put a few of the reasons Austin didn’t like it in my first post up there maybe on the first page maybe on the second. I don’t remember.!! He said the rougher the track got the more he didn’t like the bike.!! he said having first gear through fifth gear and one throttle turn on a 60 hp bike is sketchy as hell!! these top guys use the clutch quite a bit to regulate the power, especially on a 450!! and he said it would be an absolute scary bike to ride through set of stadium whoops!! I’ll bet most of the top pros have rode one and have their own opinion.!! but I know three that have rode it and all three don’t like it!

Thanks, I read your earlier post. Seems all these bikes are still too similar to the 2008 Zero X. Except now they're faster than a 450, heavier than a 450, and have a frame bolted together.

1
chasetwo79
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1 day ago
jemcee wrote:
I don't really understand why people have such an adverse reaction to the idea of them (I mean I'm sure it's got absolutely nothing to do...

I don't really understand why people have such an adverse reaction to the idea of them (I mean I'm sure it's got absolutely nothing to do with politics or anything to do with 'masculinity')

As others have said the idea of being able to do motos and no one else being bothered is a huge plus!

Why does the future of our sport have to be either or? There's still 2 strokes after the 4 strokes took over 

There's not anyone in mass demanding an electric bike. That's the problem. Yeah there's some niche cases of who it works for, but for motocross racing at a track, it's not anything gaining traction so why should any other manufacturers feel the need to push into the market fully? 

1
pops
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22 hours ago Edited Date/Time 22 hours ago
8500rpm wrote:
Austin is one lucky guy, since there are so many bad dirt bikes with bad suspension and other 'challenges' so if the Stark Varg is worse...

Austin is one lucky guy, since there are so many bad dirt bikes with bad suspension and other 'challenges' so if the Stark Varg is worse than all of these... he must have been a factory rider Wink that have access to the best-of-the-best... since most even pro reviewers think it's just excellent! ...not, not a SX or MX winning machine on pro level, but far far from 'piece of shit' Smile

btw, I miss Austin, was always cheering for him!

pops wrote:
I’ll see if I can remember his exact quotes! He said that having first through fifth  in a half turn was scary if it was the...

I’ll see if I can remember his exact quotes! He said that having first through fifth  in a half turn was scary if it was the least bit rough. He said whiskey throttle on that bike would be deadly! Also, he said it just had some quirks that didn’t feel right as far as the dirt bikes he has ridden the last few years. Also, since he has less strength in his left arm and  holds on more with his right, it can get a little sketchy with that much throttle that quickly. He was seriously thinking about getting a personal one………Not now. Thank you for being a fan.!!! it was fun while it lasted!👍

jemcee wrote:

So 'biggest piece of shit he's ever been on' was what you took from that?

That’s what he told me in person.He didn’t ride junk.

FMB2.0
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20 hours ago Edited Date/Time 19 hours ago

Altitude - the real EV advantage - Horns

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Stark holeshots in Canada at the recent World SX.

The Canadian round was only at a little over 3000 feet in elevation. What would happen at a Denver SX or Thunder Valley ? A mile above sea level ?

EVs should have horns for passing. That would most likely be less annoying than a silent motorcycle sneaking up on you.

The Volkswagen IDR Driven by Romain Dumas up Pikes Peak on June 24, 2018,  was a 670-horsepower EV  machine that smashed the all-time course record with a historic time of 7 minutes and 57.148 seconds, becoming the first car ever to finish the grueling 12.4-mile mountain climb in under eight minutes. 

It had a wooh wooh siren to warn of it's impending arrival all the way up the mountain.

 

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Flatliner
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19 hours ago

270lbs is a porky bike no matter what it feels like on the track.  Certainly a place for them but not sure if pro level is the way to go.  They got it wrong with four strokes in both classes displacement wise. I'd hate to see another mistake.

1
FMB2.0
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17 hours ago
Flatliner wrote:
270lbs is a porky bike no matter what it feels like on the track.  Certainly a place for them but not sure if pro level is...

270lbs is a porky bike no matter what it feels like on the track.  Certainly a place for them but not sure if pro level is the way to go.  They got it wrong with four strokes in both classes displacement wise. I'd hate to see another mistake.

A Stark equipped with a solid-state battery would realistically weigh between 220 lbs and 230 lbs (100 kg to 104 kg). This reflects a weight reduction of roughly 30 to 40 pounds off the current bike.
 
Breakdown
 

Current Stock Weight: The current production Stark relies on a liquid-cooled 7.2 kWh lithium-ion battery pack. The bike weighs 260 lbs (118 kg).

Battery Weight: While Stark Future does not publicly separate the weight of its internal cell cluster from the rest of the bike, a 7.2 kWh lithium-ion battery pack typically accounts for roughly 75 lbs of the bike's total mass.

Solid-State Savings: Emerging solid-state batteries exhibit significantly higher energy density—often reaching 400+ Wh/kg compared to traditional lithium ion cells. This technology can reduce cell weight by 35% to 50% for the equivalent energy capacity.

4
FMB2.0
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17 hours ago Edited Date/Time 17 hours ago
MoogenKen wrote:

Viva la Two Smoke!

2 strokes are not enmission compliant in Europe or California.

California has already outlawed 2 stroke garden equipment. 

It's only a matter of time before the California Air Resources Board (CARB ) catches onto KTM, Beta, Yamaha  and now Kawasaki selling 2 strokes in California.

4
davis224
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Cornland, IL, USA
Fantasy
16 hours ago

I think the "interest" in EV motocross is largely inflated by the internet itself. 

davis224 wrote:

Currently about 5 starks and 2 Suzukis at the track I'm at right now. They're getting popular, especially with off road guys.

Expanding on that, there were probably 8 or so Yamahas (2 were 2 strokes), 5-6ish Hondas, probably around 8 total Austrian bikes (plus a KTM free ride as a pit bike), 4-5 Kawis, and 1 Triumph. So Starks were pretty high in the percentage of big bikes on the track. It was definitely the most I've seen locally though.

pops
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15 hours ago
MoogenKen wrote:

Viva la Two Smoke!

FMB2.0 wrote:
2 strokes are not enmission compliant in Europe or California.California has already outlawed 2 stroke garden equipment. It's only a matter of time before the California Air...

2 strokes are not enmission compliant in Europe or California.

California has already outlawed 2 stroke garden equipment. 

It's only a matter of time before the California Air Resources Board (CARB ) catches onto KTM, Beta, Yamaha  and now Kawasaki selling 2 strokes in California.

You think they don’t know!!! lol lol lol

FMB2.0
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Divide, CO, USA
15 hours ago
MoogenKen wrote:

Viva la Two Smoke!

FMB2.0 wrote:
2 strokes are not enmission compliant in Europe or California.California has already outlawed 2 stroke garden equipment. It's only a matter of time before the California Air...

2 strokes are not enmission compliant in Europe or California.

California has already outlawed 2 stroke garden equipment. 

It's only a matter of time before the California Air Resources Board (CARB ) catches onto KTM, Beta, Yamaha  and now Kawasaki selling 2 strokes in California.

pops wrote:

You think they don’t know!!! lol lol lol

California's' red sticker program for non compliant emission vehicles ended in 2025.

Non -conpliant vehicles may still be sold in California for competition and closed course practice beyond 2025.

This is a craziy permi requirement I bet most  Californos haven't heard of.

https://ohv.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=21928

 

2
Beagle
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Toulouse, FR
5 hours ago
FMB2.0 wrote:
A Stark equipped with a solid-state battery would realistically weigh between 220 lbs and 230 lbs (100 kg to 104 kg). This reflects a weight reduction...
A Stark equipped with a solid-state battery would realistically weigh between 220 lbs and 230 lbs (100 kg to 104 kg). This reflects a weight reduction of roughly 30 to 40 pounds off the current bike.
 
Breakdown
 

Current Stock Weight: The current production Stark relies on a liquid-cooled 7.2 kWh lithium-ion battery pack. The bike weighs 260 lbs (118 kg).

Battery Weight: While Stark Future does not publicly separate the weight of its internal cell cluster from the rest of the bike, a 7.2 kWh lithium-ion battery pack typically accounts for roughly 75 lbs of the bike's total mass.

Solid-State Savings: Emerging solid-state batteries exhibit significantly higher energy density—often reaching 400+ Wh/kg compared to traditional lithium ion cells. This technology can reduce cell weight by 35% to 50% for the equivalent energy capacity.

The Varg battery is not liquid cooled, the motor is. When commercial cells at 400 Wh/kg will be available (maybe 5 years from now), that will save 10 kg for a 7.2 kWh pack, so potentially the bike would be under 110 kg (240-ish lbs). At 500 Wh/kg that would shed another 4 kg in cells, closing most of the gap with gas bikes weight, but that will be a long time from now.

The "weight penalty" of EV dirt bikes will slowly decrease as cells energy density keeps increasing (the current trend is 7% yearly increase which is doubling every 10 years).

But losing a few pounds is unlikely to matter that much, except maybe for pro racing. Ride it if it puts a grin on your face, just like any other dirt bike, that's all there is to it.

2

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