Posts
989
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Edited Date/Time
1/27/2012 2:17pm
I was spending some time w/ a good friend that has a track at his property and a lot of bikes including a well dialed 2008 CRF450R and a well dialed 500AF.
The CR500AF:
Honestly I'm not certain what year frame it is but I thought he said CR250 '04ish. It has a fully built motor ported for top end power, a large 42mm carb, trick head, 195 psi compression, ceramic coated internals, lightened and balanced crank, lightened flywheel, Gary Bailey's old Showa A kit suspension, and a lot of really nice parts. clamps, talons, etc...
The '08 CRF450R:
It has full Factory Connection suspension, PC pipe, pegs, clamps, Hinson clutch, big brake up front, and only 5 total hours on the bike.
Now I shattered my L1 vertebrae about 14 weeks ago. I was riding the best I ever had at an Intermediate pace before I crashed but this was my first day back on a bike since the accident. And I was on two strange bikes, on a strange track, w/ borrowed and rather shoddy riding gear. Needless to say I was not riding like myself. But I certainly was able to tell some things about these bikes. Both bikes are valved for a 210 pounder (I weigh 174#).
HP: Honestly, this 500 has a smooth pleasurable powerband. Very linear. It was a little lean up top (it is very cold for Texas right now) and the 450 actually pulled a little longer up top, but just barely. W/ a jetting correct on the 500 the powerbands would have been quite similar but w/ the 500 having the ability to pull from a lower RPM. The 500AF stalled less easily for sure. Dead stopped in 3rd gear and it would motor away easily in any turn. The 450 honestly felt like it had a slipping clutch because the power was so sluggish to come on yet ultimately didn't seem a bit slower once they were going. The 450 in slippery conditions would go better. On a big open track w/ sand or hills like VP or 3 Palms the 500 would dominate. Even though it didn't feel scary at all the 500 probably can put 60ish hp to the rear wheel. Honestly, I was surprised that my fully built 300SX felt quite similar to this 500. Actually, my 300SX is MORE violent off the bottom. There was a LOT less shifting however on this 500 compared to my 300.
Tractability: The 450 was better here. It was dry and flat thru this one sweeping 3rd gear turn and both riders could get on it a bit harder (maybe 15-20% harder) on the 450 while still way leaned over.
Vibration: The 500 vibrated more but it wasn't bad. It was very similar to my 250SX stock. The balanced crank really helped I'm told.
Starting: Starting this 500 kind of sucked as it has 195 psi compression and that's a lot of pressure over that big piston. And the boots I borrowed basically had no sole left on the right boot! If you can move the kickstarter it will start in one kick. My friend snapped a CRF450 kickstarter on it. He is having a decompression release installed into the cylinder which should make it cake.
Fun factor: No comparison, 500 for me. Honestly, I just don't enjoy 450s and I've had 2 new ones. I've never been so bored even when riding very fast as I am on a 450.
Weight: Both of these bikes sit up quite high because of their stiff suspension for me. The 500AF has a top mounted damper which doesn't help at all. When not riding them the 450 felt lighter (the 500 motor actually weighs 14# less than the 450 motor on the scales) but when riding them it was the opposite. The 500 felt lighter. Not tremendously so though.
Handling: I'll just limit this to diving into turns as I wasn't able to ride hard enough for an all around evaluation. The 500AF clearly could be braked later and dive in deeper. It also dropped over on it's side 250F like. No comparison, 500 all the way.
Maintenance and cost to repair: Don't be retarded. That $120 500 top end will last 5 years ridden 2x per week. Bottom end is a lifetime component.
Ability to go fast: Totally track dependent imo. On dry tracks the 450 would be an advantage. Same for a 2nd gear tight track I however only ride prepped tracks and would take the 500AF every time. My friend races the Int/ Exp class in offroad and woods riding on the 500AF and pretty much destroys people on it so he clearly manages pretty well even in tight situations
It was really fun to ride both of these bikes and I hope to spend more time on the 500AF on some of the local tracks.
I am really torn at this point. I had fully intended to buy a '12 250SX and build a full 314cc stroker engine before turning a wheel on it. Now I might keep my 300SX for the tight tracks and build a 500AF (maybe in a linkage equipped 450SXF frame for the more open tracks.
I hope this helps someone.
The CR500AF:
Honestly I'm not certain what year frame it is but I thought he said CR250 '04ish. It has a fully built motor ported for top end power, a large 42mm carb, trick head, 195 psi compression, ceramic coated internals, lightened and balanced crank, lightened flywheel, Gary Bailey's old Showa A kit suspension, and a lot of really nice parts. clamps, talons, etc...
The '08 CRF450R:
It has full Factory Connection suspension, PC pipe, pegs, clamps, Hinson clutch, big brake up front, and only 5 total hours on the bike.
Now I shattered my L1 vertebrae about 14 weeks ago. I was riding the best I ever had at an Intermediate pace before I crashed but this was my first day back on a bike since the accident. And I was on two strange bikes, on a strange track, w/ borrowed and rather shoddy riding gear. Needless to say I was not riding like myself. But I certainly was able to tell some things about these bikes. Both bikes are valved for a 210 pounder (I weigh 174#).
HP: Honestly, this 500 has a smooth pleasurable powerband. Very linear. It was a little lean up top (it is very cold for Texas right now) and the 450 actually pulled a little longer up top, but just barely. W/ a jetting correct on the 500 the powerbands would have been quite similar but w/ the 500 having the ability to pull from a lower RPM. The 500AF stalled less easily for sure. Dead stopped in 3rd gear and it would motor away easily in any turn. The 450 honestly felt like it had a slipping clutch because the power was so sluggish to come on yet ultimately didn't seem a bit slower once they were going. The 450 in slippery conditions would go better. On a big open track w/ sand or hills like VP or 3 Palms the 500 would dominate. Even though it didn't feel scary at all the 500 probably can put 60ish hp to the rear wheel. Honestly, I was surprised that my fully built 300SX felt quite similar to this 500. Actually, my 300SX is MORE violent off the bottom. There was a LOT less shifting however on this 500 compared to my 300.
Tractability: The 450 was better here. It was dry and flat thru this one sweeping 3rd gear turn and both riders could get on it a bit harder (maybe 15-20% harder) on the 450 while still way leaned over.
Vibration: The 500 vibrated more but it wasn't bad. It was very similar to my 250SX stock. The balanced crank really helped I'm told.
Starting: Starting this 500 kind of sucked as it has 195 psi compression and that's a lot of pressure over that big piston. And the boots I borrowed basically had no sole left on the right boot! If you can move the kickstarter it will start in one kick. My friend snapped a CRF450 kickstarter on it. He is having a decompression release installed into the cylinder which should make it cake.
Fun factor: No comparison, 500 for me. Honestly, I just don't enjoy 450s and I've had 2 new ones. I've never been so bored even when riding very fast as I am on a 450.
Weight: Both of these bikes sit up quite high because of their stiff suspension for me. The 500AF has a top mounted damper which doesn't help at all. When not riding them the 450 felt lighter (the 500 motor actually weighs 14# less than the 450 motor on the scales) but when riding them it was the opposite. The 500 felt lighter. Not tremendously so though.
Handling: I'll just limit this to diving into turns as I wasn't able to ride hard enough for an all around evaluation. The 500AF clearly could be braked later and dive in deeper. It also dropped over on it's side 250F like. No comparison, 500 all the way.
Maintenance and cost to repair: Don't be retarded. That $120 500 top end will last 5 years ridden 2x per week. Bottom end is a lifetime component.
Ability to go fast: Totally track dependent imo. On dry tracks the 450 would be an advantage. Same for a 2nd gear tight track I however only ride prepped tracks and would take the 500AF every time. My friend races the Int/ Exp class in offroad and woods riding on the 500AF and pretty much destroys people on it so he clearly manages pretty well even in tight situations
It was really fun to ride both of these bikes and I hope to spend more time on the 500AF on some of the local tracks.
I am really torn at this point. I had fully intended to buy a '12 250SX and build a full 314cc stroker engine before turning a wheel on it. Now I might keep my 300SX for the tight tracks and build a 500AF (maybe in a linkage equipped 450SXF frame for the more open tracks.
I hope this helps someone.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Bummer also that a 600 plus pound twin cylinder cruiser with lots of lights, battery, massive wiring harness, switches, buttons, guages , catalytic converter and custom tri coat two tone clearcoated candy paint retails for $8200.00. By comparison, a 250 lb, single cylinder, stripped down bare bones as you can possibly get dirt bike.....$8200.00. But we are supposed to worship the oems for all the millions they've invested in R&D, blah, blah, blah. Truth be known, they probably laugh their asses off at how easily fooled the dirt bike crowd is.
Newmann: Why do you think they pulled out of road racing? They weren't selling a new bike every year to the same guy. They also weren't selling a CBR to a 12 year old kid who just watched his favorite racer win Daytona 200. They were on the way out already and just needed a good excuse. Supercross is way different, and the big 5 aren't going anywhere. They know what is raced on Sunday is bought on monday. It's been that way for a loooonnnggg time. But what is different, is that at $8200. Not gonna happen in both this economy and every year either. Prices need to go down. They are having parts built in China, so the use of dollar to yen isn't equal.
2 stroke wins. End of test.
Although it might have been cool to compare the newest CRF Chassis' to the AF it really would have been even more unfair to the 500AF as it's chassis becomes really dated at that point in comparison. And obviously a good fabricator, like my buddy who has built three of them, could wedge that 500 mill into the new style chassis just as easily erasing that advantage. But then again most consider the '08 CRF the best one yet.
You know, you're one of the fortunate ones to be around such great mx bikes like these. Good for you.
Sorry to hear of the L1 break. Ouch! Hope it's healed up nicely, with no future reminders for you on those rainy/humid days.
i've been trying to figure out what i'm going to do, i have an outdated 2001 YZ 250 that i love to ride and a 2007 CRF 450 that i race and love. but i'm ready for something different, i'm definitely going to look into an AF500...
thanks again for the great read
Once when i was at a track a friend of mine had his new 450 and we traded for a few laps. I could not wait to get off that pig. My bike vibrated a little more but there was no comparison. NONE.
Pit Row
we are now basically racing 500s in SX
The reason the 2 strokes all have punchy midrange hits was for the technical/steep jumps..take the track style away and all your left with is a punchy /slightly hard to manage midrange hit ..bring back the tracks and you will see more 2 strokes being raced.
Post a reply to: Got to ride a 450F back to back w/ a 500AF...