Why you are fading at the 15-minute mark (and the problem with your off-bike training)

If you are consistently losing lap time or making critical mistakes late in a moto, the issue usually isn't your bike setup. It is a structural flaw in your conditioning.

Most amateur and semi-pro racers approach off-the-bike training with random inputs. You do a few heavy lifts, throw in some high-intensity interval training, or spend an hour on a stationary bike. Random inputs yield random outputs.

Motocross is a highly specific endurance sport. It requires sustained cardiovascular output at threshold, combined with sharp anaerobic spikes. When you train without a system, you usually encounter three critical failures:

  1. Poor Aerobic Base: If your Zone 2 engine is underdeveloped, your heart rate spikes too early in the moto and cannot recover in the corners.
  2. Lactic Accumulation: When you rely exclusively on high-intensity circuit training off the bike, your body loses the ability to efficiently clear lactate, resulting in severe arm pump and grip failure.
  3. Neurological Fatigue: Random training creates central nervous system fatigue that carries over to race day, reducing your reaction time and decision-making capabilities.

To fix this, you must stop treating your conditioning like a generic gym workout and start treating it like a performance system. You need a structured progression framework that builds base endurance without sacrificing explosive power.

If you are currently training but not seeing your late-moto endurance improve, your programming has a leak.

I run Vector Forge, where we build structured performance systems for serious endurance athletes. I built a free Performance Audit to help identify exactly where your current training is breaking down. It takes about five minutes to complete.

You can run your current program through the audit here: VectorForgeHQ.com/performanceaudit

If you have specific questions about heart rate zones or off-bike programming, drop them below and I will answer them.

3
21
|
Radical
Posts
2832
Joined
10/20/2012
Location
San Diego, CA US
5/9/2026 8:58am

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

3
21
30minmotos
Posts
819
Joined
8/7/2025
Location
Rising Sun , MD US
5/9/2026 9:01am

It’s the tasty cakes. And the pizza. And the ice cream. And the chicken tenders. Oh and the fries.

15
Scott14
Posts
8
Joined
4/14/2025
Location
INWOOD, IA US
5/9/2026 9:05am
30minmotos wrote:

It’s the tasty cakes. And the pizza. And the ice cream. And the chicken tenders. Oh and the fries.

Why'd you have to bring ice cream into this? From my cold dead hands....

13
1
30minmotos
Posts
819
Joined
8/7/2025
Location
Rising Sun , MD US
5/9/2026 9:08am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2026 9:09am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

Honestly makes sense for most of the moto community.


Let’s say they ride 1 day per wk and you flirt with zone 4 and 5 on a ride day.


Do 2-4 stretching and lifting days

1 zone 4-5 cardio day 2-3 days after your ride day and 2-3 days before the next ride day.


The stretching and lifting is what most of us need. I can’t even get in a good standing attack position comfortably anymore my hips and ankles are all so compromised from office job, commuting, injuries, lzyness, etc.

7
2

The Shop

5/9/2026 9:10am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.

Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence brothers, Deegan, or the top hard enduro guys. They spend hours every week grinding on road or mountain bikes at a conversational pace. They aren't doing that to waste time.

Here is the mechanical reason why: Zone 4 training produces lactate. Zone 2 training builds the mitochondria that clears lactate.

If you only train in Zone 4, you build a high-revving engine with a terrible exhaust system. Your body gets great at producing power, but lacks the infrastructure to flush the lactic acid out of your forearms and back. That is exactly when you get arm pump and your grip fails.

Pros do long Zone 2 rides to build the base necessary to process the intense anaerobic spikes on the track, and to ensure they can actually recover in time for Moto 2.

You need both. But if you skip the base, your progress will hit a hard ceiling.

6
3
30minmotos
Posts
819
Joined
8/7/2025
Location
Rising Sun , MD US
5/9/2026 9:11am
30minmotos wrote:

It’s the tasty cakes. And the pizza. And the ice cream. And the chicken tenders. Oh and the fries.

Scott14 wrote:

Why'd you have to bring ice cream into this? From my cold dead hands....

Dude I swear anytime I string 5-6 good days of eating clean suddenly there’s a pizza on my counter that I didn’t order, or an event with food I can’t avoid, or work orders junk food for everyone and it’s free and right there, 


I know it’s just discipline but dang when it’s free, in front of you, it’s tough lmao

12
1
30minmotos
Posts
819
Joined
8/7/2025
Location
Rising Sun , MD US
5/9/2026 9:13am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

jamesclark wrote:
You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence...

You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.

Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence brothers, Deegan, or the top hard enduro guys. They spend hours every week grinding on road or mountain bikes at a conversational pace. They aren't doing that to waste time.

Here is the mechanical reason why: Zone 4 training produces lactate. Zone 2 training builds the mitochondria that clears lactate.

If you only train in Zone 4, you build a high-revving engine with a terrible exhaust system. Your body gets great at producing power, but lacks the infrastructure to flush the lactic acid out of your forearms and back. That is exactly when you get arm pump and your grip fails.

Pros do long Zone 2 rides to build the base necessary to process the intense anaerobic spikes on the track, and to ensure they can actually recover in time for Moto 2.

You need both. But if you skip the base, your progress will hit a hard ceiling.

Brother most amateur races are 4 laps.


If you’re getting tired in 4 laps you’re riding over your head and beyond sprinting.


Speed is the easiest way to gain fitness


If you ride at 70% suddenly you can ride for 45 minutes straight. As soon as you push to 95-100% it drops off.


Increase your speed and your 70% gets faster and alla kazam you’re winning races and not breathing hard.


 

3
4
5/9/2026 9:16am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

30minmotos wrote:
Honestly makes sense for most of the moto community.Let’s say they ride 1 day per wk and you flirt with zone 4 and 5 on a...

Honestly makes sense for most of the moto community.


Let’s say they ride 1 day per wk and you flirt with zone 4 and 5 on a ride day.


Do 2-4 stretching and lifting days

1 zone 4-5 cardio day 2-3 days after your ride day and 2-3 days before the next ride day.


The stretching and lifting is what most of us need. I can’t even get in a good standing attack position comfortably anymore my hips and ankles are all so compromised from office job, commuting, injuries, lzyness, etc.

Spot on. You just highlighted the silent killer for amateur racers: biomechanical restriction.

If your hips and ankles are locked up from sitting at a desk, you physically cannot hinge into a proper attack position. When you can't hinge, you absorb the bike's impact through your lower back and arms instead of your legs. That is exactly how severe arm pump and lower back spasms start, regardless of your cardio.

Your proposed 7-day split is close, but I would make one structural tweak to the engine work.

Since your ride day is already heavily taxing your Zone 4/5 (high intensity), doing another Zone 4/5 day off the bike is going to fry your central nervous system. Instead, swap that off-bike cardio day to a strict 45-60 minute Zone 2 session.

Use your off-bike days to build the aerobic base, fix the desk-job mobility issues, and build structural strength. Let the track be your high-intensity work.

Getting all these moving parts to work together without overtraining is the hardest part for guys working full-time. That is exactly why I built the audit linked in the original post. It is a quick series of diagnostic questions designed to pinpoint exactly where your current routine has gaps, whether it is mobility, base building, or recovery. Run through it if you want to see exactly where you are leaking performance.

2
3
5/9/2026 9:19am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

jamesclark wrote:
You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence...

You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.

Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence brothers, Deegan, or the top hard enduro guys. They spend hours every week grinding on road or mountain bikes at a conversational pace. They aren't doing that to waste time.

Here is the mechanical reason why: Zone 4 training produces lactate. Zone 2 training builds the mitochondria that clears lactate.

If you only train in Zone 4, you build a high-revving engine with a terrible exhaust system. Your body gets great at producing power, but lacks the infrastructure to flush the lactic acid out of your forearms and back. That is exactly when you get arm pump and your grip fails.

Pros do long Zone 2 rides to build the base necessary to process the intense anaerobic spikes on the track, and to ensure they can actually recover in time for Moto 2.

You need both. But if you skip the base, your progress will hit a hard ceiling.

30minmotos wrote:
Brother most amateur races are 4 laps.If you’re getting tired in 4 laps you’re riding over your head and beyond sprinting.Speed is the easiest way to...

Brother most amateur races are 4 laps.


If you’re getting tired in 4 laps you’re riding over your head and beyond sprinting.


Speed is the easiest way to gain fitness


If you ride at 70% suddenly you can ride for 45 minutes straight. As soon as you push to 95-100% it drops off.


Increase your speed and your 70% gets faster and alla kazam you’re winning races and not breathing hard.


 

You are describing the concept of "speed reserve," and you are absolutely right about the math. If you raise your 100% sprint speed, your 70% pace inherently gets faster. Raising your absolute ceiling makes the lower intensities feel easier.

But relying on speed reserve alone to survive a 4-lap race is a trap, and here is why:

A 4-lap amateur moto is roughly 8 to 12 minutes depending on the track. Physiologically, an 8-minute maximal effort is not a pure sprint, it is highly reliant on your aerobic energy system.

When you ride a dirt bike, your heart rate spikes in the braking bumps, corners, and while fighting for passes. If you only train for speed and ignore your aerobic base, your body cannot recover from those spikes. Your heart rate gets pegged, lactate immediately pools in your forearms, and you get severe arm pump by lap two, regardless of how fast your raw sprint speed is.

Building raw speed and technique is crucial. But a strong aerobic base is what allows your heart rate to actually drop back down while you are in the air or in the smooth sections. Without it, you might be the fastest guy on the track for one lap, but you will be a rigid passenger by lap four.

2
2
5/9/2026 9:23am
30minmotos wrote:

It’s the tasty cakes. And the pizza. And the ice cream. And the chicken tenders. Oh and the fries.

Scott14 wrote:

Why'd you have to bring ice cream into this? From my cold dead hands....

30minmotos wrote:
Dude I swear anytime I string 5-6 good days of eating clean suddenly there’s a pizza on my counter that I didn’t order, or an event...

Dude I swear anytime I string 5-6 good days of eating clean suddenly there’s a pizza on my counter that I didn’t order, or an event with food I can’t avoid, or work orders junk food for everyone and it’s free and right there, 


I know it’s just discipline but dang when it’s free, in front of you, it’s tough lmao

It isn't a discipline problem. You are fighting biology, and biology always wins.

When you try to "eat clean" for 5 days straight, you are almost certainly under-eating. By the time Friday hits, your system is heavily depleted. When that happens, your brain overrides your willpower and locks onto the most calorie-dense thing in the room, the free pizza.

The fix isn't more willpower. It is a better fueling system.

If you actually eat enough high-quality food during the week to match your training and work output, you won't be starving when the junk food shows up. It becomes easy to walk past. Stop restricting your fuel Monday through Thursday, and the pizza stops being a threat. Keep the ice cream, just fix the weekday deficit.

1
2
Radical
Posts
2832
Joined
10/20/2012
Location
San Diego, CA US
5/9/2026 10:33am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2026 10:39am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

jamesclark wrote:
You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence...

You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.

Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence brothers, Deegan, or the top hard enduro guys. They spend hours every week grinding on road or mountain bikes at a conversational pace. They aren't doing that to waste time.

Here is the mechanical reason why: Zone 4 training produces lactate. Zone 2 training builds the mitochondria that clears lactate.

If you only train in Zone 4, you build a high-revving engine with a terrible exhaust system. Your body gets great at producing power, but lacks the infrastructure to flush the lactic acid out of your forearms and back. That is exactly when you get arm pump and your grip fails.

Pros do long Zone 2 rides to build the base necessary to process the intense anaerobic spikes on the track, and to ensure they can actually recover in time for Moto 2.

You need both. But if you skip the base, your progress will hit a hard ceiling.

I don't have time to do hours of cardio each week, and don't believe it's necessary, or the best way to train.

Zone 2 is not pushing your body at all, unless that's where your fitness is at.  If it is, great!  Do zone 2, then keep pushing until you can do zone 3, then zone 4, for 45-60 minutes, twice per week.  Zone 3 has merit if the duration is high enough, but I'm not convinced that Zone 2 does anything long term except that it's better than not working out at all.

I can't, nor do I believe it's healthy, to do Zone 4/5 for longer than 45-60 minutes, or more often than 2-3x / week (really 2), but in my experience, zone 4/5 for 45-55 minutes is where the magic is.  Give yourself enough recovery time, and endurance and performance continue to increase consistently over time.

I can see doing a zone 2 or 3 ride on off days, just to keep your body moving, and keep your lungs/heart/arteries expanded from the zone 4/5 workouts, but for performance/endurance I'm not convinced that zone 2 is worth the time at all.

Add weight training (push yourself, then leave time for recovery), plus riding 1x / week, plus decent nutrition/supplementation, and endurance is not a problem.  For me, neither is arm pump.

I can see great value in having a trainer dial in an athlete's program, in cardio and strength/flexibility, but we disagree on the value of zone 2, especially for those of us with busy schedules.

I wish you the best!

2
7
3strokemx
Posts
2403
Joined
9/2/2010
Location
US
5/9/2026 10:55am

AI Prompt Fitness company name: "Vector Forge"

AI Prompt amateur motocross athlete fitness plan:   *post to Vitalmx





 

3
1
OwenJakes
Posts
1695
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY US
5/9/2026 11:11am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

Most ignorant post in this forum. 

5
2
5/9/2026 11:19am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2026 11:24am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

jamesclark wrote:
You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence...

You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.

Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence brothers, Deegan, or the top hard enduro guys. They spend hours every week grinding on road or mountain bikes at a conversational pace. They aren't doing that to waste time.

Here is the mechanical reason why: Zone 4 training produces lactate. Zone 2 training builds the mitochondria that clears lactate.

If you only train in Zone 4, you build a high-revving engine with a terrible exhaust system. Your body gets great at producing power, but lacks the infrastructure to flush the lactic acid out of your forearms and back. That is exactly when you get arm pump and your grip fails.

Pros do long Zone 2 rides to build the base necessary to process the intense anaerobic spikes on the track, and to ensure they can actually recover in time for Moto 2.

You need both. But if you skip the base, your progress will hit a hard ceiling.

I moto 1-2 times a week and am zone 4-5 both times.  All my cycling is zone 2 (zone 3 on climbs) because I’m already doing intervals everytime I’m on the dirtbike.  Also lift for an hour 4 times a week.  Exercise about 6 days a week most are 2 a days, lift in the morning and cycling at night 

2
1
uncledaddy69
Posts
2320
Joined
4/2/2011
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
5/9/2026 11:29am

It’s funny seeing the heart rate zone argument here because it’s one of the most debated things in the running world. I’d also like to know who is on the static stretch side vs the dynamic stretch side of things. 

2
5/9/2026 11:32am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

OwenJakes wrote:

Most ignorant post in this forum. 

True.  Z2 should be 80% of your training.

1
Radical
Posts
2832
Joined
10/20/2012
Location
San Diego, CA US
5/9/2026 11:40am
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

jamesclark wrote:
You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence...

You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.

Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence brothers, Deegan, or the top hard enduro guys. They spend hours every week grinding on road or mountain bikes at a conversational pace. They aren't doing that to waste time.

Here is the mechanical reason why: Zone 4 training produces lactate. Zone 2 training builds the mitochondria that clears lactate.

If you only train in Zone 4, you build a high-revving engine with a terrible exhaust system. Your body gets great at producing power, but lacks the infrastructure to flush the lactic acid out of your forearms and back. That is exactly when you get arm pump and your grip fails.

Pros do long Zone 2 rides to build the base necessary to process the intense anaerobic spikes on the track, and to ensure they can actually recover in time for Moto 2.

You need both. But if you skip the base, your progress will hit a hard ceiling.

I moto 1-2 times a week and am zone 4-5 both times.  All my cycling is zone 2 (zone 3 on climbs) because I’m already doing...

I moto 1-2 times a week and am zone 4-5 both times.  All my cycling is zone 2 (zone 3 on climbs) because I’m already doing intervals everytime I’m on the dirtbike.  Also lift for an hour 4 times a week.  Exercise about 6 days a week most are 2 a days, lift in the morning and cycling at night 

My argument is that if you kick your cycling up to zone 4 for the majority of 45 minutes, 1-2 times per week (once if riding motos twice per week, twice if riding motos once per week), that during your motos you'll either be at zone 3/4 instead of 4/5, or you'll be able to push harder while riding at zone 4/5.

8
5/9/2026 11:57am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2026 12:00pm

Zone 2 is how you build your cardio system and is an amazing tool to build your base and not hate your training 

I used to come home from work and first thing hop on my stationary bike for an hour five days a week at 135 bpm and within a few months I saw a huuuuge gain, you can do your sprints at the track 

8
aees
Posts
2692
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
5/9/2026 12:11pm
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

jamesclark wrote:
You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence...

You’re right that Zone 4 pushes your lactate threshold higher, but relying on it exclusively is a trap.

Look at any factory pro's program, Tomac, the Lawrence brothers, Deegan, or the top hard enduro guys. They spend hours every week grinding on road or mountain bikes at a conversational pace. They aren't doing that to waste time.

Here is the mechanical reason why: Zone 4 training produces lactate. Zone 2 training builds the mitochondria that clears lactate.

If you only train in Zone 4, you build a high-revving engine with a terrible exhaust system. Your body gets great at producing power, but lacks the infrastructure to flush the lactic acid out of your forearms and back. That is exactly when you get arm pump and your grip fails.

Pros do long Zone 2 rides to build the base necessary to process the intense anaerobic spikes on the track, and to ensure they can actually recover in time for Moto 2.

You need both. But if you skip the base, your progress will hit a hard ceiling.

Radical wrote:
I don't have time to do hours of cardio each week, and don't believe it's necessary, or the best way to train.Zone 2 is not pushing...

I don't have time to do hours of cardio each week, and don't believe it's necessary, or the best way to train.

Zone 2 is not pushing your body at all, unless that's where your fitness is at.  If it is, great!  Do zone 2, then keep pushing until you can do zone 3, then zone 4, for 45-60 minutes, twice per week.  Zone 3 has merit if the duration is high enough, but I'm not convinced that Zone 2 does anything long term except that it's better than not working out at all.

I can't, nor do I believe it's healthy, to do Zone 4/5 for longer than 45-60 minutes, or more often than 2-3x / week (really 2), but in my experience, zone 4/5 for 45-55 minutes is where the magic is.  Give yourself enough recovery time, and endurance and performance continue to increase consistently over time.

I can see doing a zone 2 or 3 ride on off days, just to keep your body moving, and keep your lungs/heart/arteries expanded from the zone 4/5 workouts, but for performance/endurance I'm not convinced that zone 2 is worth the time at all.

Add weight training (push yourself, then leave time for recovery), plus riding 1x / week, plus decent nutrition/supplementation, and endurance is not a problem.  For me, neither is arm pump.

I can see great value in having a trainer dial in an athlete's program, in cardio and strength/flexibility, but we disagree on the value of zone 2, especially for those of us with busy schedules.

I wish you the best!

Zone 2 prioritize slow twitch muscle development and aerobic base and develops your capability to deal with lactic acid, or rather the effects of it. It's not fast twitch that helps with that. You need this a few minutes into a moto already, process starts right away. 

Thats not something you can work around by just "extending how much you can suffer" in zone 4 or 5. If you do 7-8min sprint motos you can maybe push it, but not the typical 20-25min we do.

It's a myth that you need to train as hard as you race.

Of course as usual, anything is typically better than nothing (unless you ride a lot and also intend to do 4x4 intervalls, then nothing is actually better).

2
5/9/2026 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2026 1:15pm
Zone 2 is how you build your cardio system and is an amazing tool to build your base and not hate your training I used to come...

Zone 2 is how you build your cardio system and is an amazing tool to build your base and not hate your training 

I used to come home from work and first thing hop on my stationary bike for an hour five days a week at 135 bpm and within a few months I saw a huuuuge gain, you can do your sprints at the track 

Polarized training is the way! Yes and progressive overload 

1
El_Rayo
Posts
445
Joined
6/21/2025
Location
Valparaiso , IN US
Fantasy
5/9/2026 1:25pm
Scott14 wrote:

Why'd you have to bring ice cream into this? From my cold dead hands....

30minmotos wrote:
Dude I swear anytime I string 5-6 good days of eating clean suddenly there’s a pizza on my counter that I didn’t order, or an event...

Dude I swear anytime I string 5-6 good days of eating clean suddenly there’s a pizza on my counter that I didn’t order, or an event with food I can’t avoid, or work orders junk food for everyone and it’s free and right there, 


I know it’s just discipline but dang when it’s free, in front of you, it’s tough lmao

jamesclark wrote:
It isn't a discipline problem. You are fighting biology, and biology always wins.When you try to "eat clean" for 5 days straight, you are almost certainly...

It isn't a discipline problem. You are fighting biology, and biology always wins.

When you try to "eat clean" for 5 days straight, you are almost certainly under-eating. By the time Friday hits, your system is heavily depleted. When that happens, your brain overrides your willpower and locks onto the most calorie-dense thing in the room, the free pizza.

The fix isn't more willpower. It is a better fueling system.

If you actually eat enough high-quality food during the week to match your training and work output, you won't be starving when the junk food shows up. It becomes easy to walk past. Stop restricting your fuel Monday through Thursday, and the pizza stops being a threat. Keep the ice cream, just fix the weekday deficit.

Are you posting anything original? It’s obvious these are just copy and paste’s from AI

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El_Rayo
Posts
445
Joined
6/21/2025
Location
Valparaiso , IN US
Fantasy
5/9/2026 1:28pm
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

OwenJakes wrote:

Most ignorant post in this forum. 

“Zone 2 is a waste of time” has to be the dumbest thing I have read on vital this week. And that says a lot.

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OwenJakes
Posts
1695
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY US
5/9/2026 1:28pm
It’s funny seeing the heart rate zone argument here because it’s one of the most debated things in the running world. I’d also like to know...

It’s funny seeing the heart rate zone argument here because it’s one of the most debated things in the running world. I’d also like to know who is on the static stretch side vs the dynamic stretch side of things. 

Yeah I’m primarily a runner. All my moto fitness is just straight up running carryover. You will never get 50+ mile weeks stacked for 2 months redlining yourself in zone 4 range everyday. 

Funny thing is N O B O D Y in the running and cycling world thinks zone 2 is a waste. I have no idea why anyone would say that except for a brain injury😂😂

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2
OwenJakes
Posts
1695
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY US
5/9/2026 1:30pm
Radical wrote:
You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting...

You lost me at Zone 2.  Zone 2 is a waste of time.  Work your way up to training for 45-60 minutes at Zone 4, flirting with Zone 5.  Then give yourself plenty of time to recover.

Lactate threshold improves.  High intensity endurance improves.

OwenJakes wrote:

Most ignorant post in this forum. 

El_Rayo wrote:

“Zone 2 is a waste of time” has to be the dumbest thing I have read on vital this week. And that says a lot.

Zone 2 is like house money. I have 2-3 targeted sessions a week and then just heaps of easy running and it’s changed my life. 

I used to just go out and YOLO mile every workout and I’ve made more progress in 3 months than I have all last year. Literally just by calming down and being less ignorant lol

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2
Spike33
Posts
441
Joined
1/6/2024
Location
Malibu, CA US
5/9/2026 1:48pm
OwenJakes wrote:

Most ignorant post in this forum. 

El_Rayo wrote:

“Zone 2 is a waste of time” has to be the dumbest thing I have read on vital this week. And that says a lot.

OwenJakes wrote:
Zone 2 is like house money. I have 2-3 targeted sessions a week and then just heaps of easy running and it’s changed my life. I used...

Zone 2 is like house money. I have 2-3 targeted sessions a week and then just heaps of easy running and it’s changed my life. 

I used to just go out and YOLO mile every workout and I’ve made more progress in 3 months than I have all last year. Literally just by calming down and being less ignorant lol

How’s the shed going 

5/9/2026 2:00pm

I personally enjoy really long motos.  Problem in most local races are 5 laps. At my age and ability training and racing sprint races aren’t the best idea. Local racing in Southern California they’re 2 clubs that have long motos. SRA GP’s and VET MX have longer motos where endurance wins out over sprint speed. 

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1
5/9/2026 2:05pm

What is the solution for fading at the 15 second mark? Asking for a friend…

7
yardsailor
Posts
433
Joined
1/3/2024
Location
Nerstrand, MN US
5/9/2026 2:22pm

These guys at the pro level are on a different level beyond comprehension to us lay folk. 
I think all of us on this forum would love to just make one main event in the outdoor series in our lifetime. 
Riding, conditioning, outside mentorship, family/friend support etc. is a lot of it. 
The mental game is also a lot of it.  

Myself, I was always good for 4-5 laps and then Id lose focus and my mind would disconnect from the moment. 
 This is a battle amongst many riders. 

Adhd?  One cant help it.  

I believe there has been a few riders (world class) that have battled this.  

Imagine if we critiqued Nascar guys for finishing 33rd when they just finished top 5 the last couple of races. 

These riders are the best of the best and they all will have their off days, weeks and months. 


Anyways, what was I saying?


Lets get it done Roczen.  I also pick Hinter for the outdoor ship.  

 

Marty1028
Posts
930
Joined
10/5/2017
Location
Lafayette, IN US
5/9/2026 2:36pm
3strokemx wrote:

AI Prompt Fitness company name: "Vector Forge"

AI Prompt amateur motocross athlete fitness plan:   *post to Vitalmx





 

Surprised no one else is calling this out. This dude is an AI bot or is pasting a ChatGPT reply here. Very identifiable in his sentence structure 

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