Jody, MXA, Two Strokes and Matthes

jmar
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jmar 1/19/2011 9:03pm
1/19/2011 9:03pm
You wouldn't believe how many parts we would go through in the 125 class. The reeds would last one weekend. Ring would be every race. Piston every weekend if all went well. Clutch plates, every weekend. Cranks and mains, every three weekends. Not to mention cylinders, heads, ignitions, impeller shafts, seals and bearings.

Our parts allowance would run out pretty quickly. Guess who was footing the bill after that?
BadExample 1/19/2011 9:13pm
1/19/2011 9:13pm
BadExample wrote:
Where did you get your bikes tweaked? Sleeve up the cylinder and run synthetic pre-mix.. the bike will live forever for cheap.
newmann wrote:
Tell me about this mystery synthetic. I need to find a way to keep some of these old air cooled 125's alive. If I had a...
Tell me about this mystery synthetic. I need to find a way to keep some of these old air cooled 125's alive. If I had a buck for every piston....... LOL. They sure seem to do better with OEM cast piston's than forged aftermarket ones.
Any good brand oil will do the trick! Throw your Yamalube away! 50:1 Mix . Really big difference.. There is a guy at work having his new KTM running on Synthetic pre-mix 100:1! Crazy but it works! Also check this out!

http://www.microblueracing.com/custom_shop/friction.php

Pretty cool shit!
jmar
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jmar 1/19/2011 9:20pm
1/19/2011 9:20pm
newmann wrote:
I'm thinking JMar is a closet two stroke junkie! He does more to keep these threads going than the supposed "kooks". Looking back, I've bought roughly...
I'm thinking JMar is a closet two stroke junkie! He does more to keep these threads going than the supposed "kooks".

Looking back, I've bought roughly 20 new two stroke bikes and probably 100 plus used ones. Of the used bikes, probably 20 or so were fairly current models and the rest being vintage bikes. I've spent a fortune on parts for restorations and racebikes whether OEM or aftermarket. I've spoken with my wallet plenty.

About those four strokes, well there have been three new ones. 01 YZ250F, 04 CRF250 and a KLX110 pit bike. The 2 250F's both scattered in amazing fashion, got rebuilt and get ridden occasionally. Still got them, they aren't worth selling after all the money that's been spent on them. Besides, neither of them have been upgraded enough over the years to make sense buying a newer version.

jmar wrote:
Please call me Jim. You are a master at bringing life back into older two strokes, and I have a great respect for that. With that...
Please call me Jim.

You are a master at bringing life back into older two strokes, and I have a great respect for that.

With that said, I have invested my own capital and time into pro level race teams, and from a financial standpoint, I will take the four stroke over the two stroke. Especially when it comes to the old pro level 125 racing. You wouldn't believe how many parts a tweaked out 125 goes through under the throttle hand of a pro level rider.
BadExample wrote:
Where did you get your bikes tweaked? Sleeve up the cylinder and run synthetic pre-mix.. the bike will live forever for cheap.
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level, and I don't care what type of pre-mix you use.
kaboom645 1/19/2011 9:25pm
1/19/2011 9:25pm
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season. My bike would get a new ring once a week, and new piston/wrist pin/bearing once a month. My bike was built and tuned to the max and had no problem pulling the YZ250f's when they first came out. Maybe I was just lucky enough to have an engine tuner who knew how to build a reliable race engine.. Daryl Youngblood and myself got support rides with a local Vertimati dealer at the end of '02... 15min was the magic number that we both could get the bike to last before it blew. I switched to a Yamaha 250F for 03 and about once a month something in the motor broke(hence how I earned my screen name on here). I walked away in 04 and didnt return till the year before last. My new 450F at the time didnt far any better as it blew on the 3rd ride.. Maybe I am riding the bike wrong? maybe its just bad luck. I am a mechanic/fabricator by trade so I know its not a maintence problem or even a "fixing it till its broke" thing either..

Oh and sombody asked to post pics here is mine
Current 2010 KTM 250sx

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CamP
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CamP 1/19/2011 9:32pm
1/19/2011 9:32pm
jmar wrote:
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level...
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level, and I don't care what type of pre-mix you use.
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x what you were spending on the early YZF250's Jake was racing. It's crazy money.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 1/19/2011 9:34pm
1/19/2011 9:34pm
I just wanted to say this thread is a hum-ringdingdinger
OW38B
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OW38B 1/19/2011 9:44pm
1/19/2011 9:44pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 9:44pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I just wanted to say this thread is a hum-ringdingdinger
That's like sayin' "Mount Everest is a little tough to climb" Smile

I think we can all agree that this two stroke topic is not going away soon...........at least in here.
BadExample 1/19/2011 9:56pm
1/19/2011 9:56pm
kaboom645 wrote:
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season...
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season. My bike would get a new ring once a week, and new piston/wrist pin/bearing once a month. My bike was built and tuned to the max and had no problem pulling the YZ250f's when they first came out. Maybe I was just lucky enough to have an engine tuner who knew how to build a reliable race engine.. Daryl Youngblood and myself got support rides with a local Vertimati dealer at the end of '02... 15min was the magic number that we both could get the bike to last before it blew. I switched to a Yamaha 250F for 03 and about once a month something in the motor broke(hence how I earned my screen name on here). I walked away in 04 and didnt return till the year before last. My new 450F at the time didnt far any better as it blew on the 3rd ride.. Maybe I am riding the bike wrong? maybe its just bad luck. I am a mechanic/fabricator by trade so I know its not a maintence problem or even a "fixing it till its broke" thing either..

Oh and sombody asked to post pics here is mine
Current 2010 KTM 250sx
Lovely!Smile
BadExample 1/19/2011 10:04pm
1/19/2011 10:04pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 10:05pm
jmar wrote:
Please call me Jim. You are a master at bringing life back into older two strokes, and I have a great respect for that. With that...
Please call me Jim.

You are a master at bringing life back into older two strokes, and I have a great respect for that.

With that said, I have invested my own capital and time into pro level race teams, and from a financial standpoint, I will take the four stroke over the two stroke. Especially when it comes to the old pro level 125 racing. You wouldn't believe how many parts a tweaked out 125 goes through under the throttle hand of a pro level rider.
BadExample wrote:
Where did you get your bikes tweaked? Sleeve up the cylinder and run synthetic pre-mix.. the bike will live forever for cheap.
jmar wrote:
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level...
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level, and I don't care what type of pre-mix you use.
Why don't you pull the PC pricing for both on mods? I bet the current 4 stroke are 3 times more expensive to modify and maintain at pro level than a killer bee. Get your shit updated SlimJIM..!It is like road racing!
kaboom645 1/19/2011 10:11pm
1/19/2011 10:11pm
BadExample wrote:
Why don't you pull the PC pricing for both on mods? I bet the current 4 stroke are 3 times more expensive to modify and maintain...
Why don't you pull the PC pricing for both on mods? I bet the current 4 stroke are 3 times more expensive to modify and maintain at pro level than a killer bee. Get your shit updated SlimJIM..!It is like road racing!
To fully build a 125 would cost about the same as a top of the line 4 stroke exhaust system..
jmar
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jmar 1/19/2011 10:16pm
1/19/2011 10:16pm
kaboom645 wrote:
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season...
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season. My bike would get a new ring once a week, and new piston/wrist pin/bearing once a month. My bike was built and tuned to the max and had no problem pulling the YZ250f's when they first came out. Maybe I was just lucky enough to have an engine tuner who knew how to build a reliable race engine.. Daryl Youngblood and myself got support rides with a local Vertimati dealer at the end of '02... 15min was the magic number that we both could get the bike to last before it blew. I switched to a Yamaha 250F for 03 and about once a month something in the motor broke(hence how I earned my screen name on here). I walked away in 04 and didnt return till the year before last. My new 450F at the time didnt far any better as it blew on the 3rd ride.. Maybe I am riding the bike wrong? maybe its just bad luck. I am a mechanic/fabricator by trade so I know its not a maintence problem or even a "fixing it till its broke" thing either..

Oh and sombody asked to post pics here is mine
Current 2010 KTM 250sx
15 min won't cut it at an outdoor national.

In 01 my son went through three motors on his YZ 125 at Troy before Sundays main. I had enough, and I had bought a YZ 250f earlier that year just for kicks thinking that I might want to ride it. After Troy we put a yosh pipe on the 250f and did nothing but change the oil and put gas in the thing for the remainder of the season.

In 02 Bobby Regan wanted to get into pro level racing, and was good enough to furnish a transport truck. I rounded up the bikes, parts, and other sponsors and Star put in it's first year in pro level racing. Other than frying two motors, (each rider fried their practice bike) because the powder coaters failed to plug the bolt holes in the frame (sand in the frame tubes contaminating the oil) when they sand blasted the frames. We had three bikes for each rider, but used very few parts for the entire supercross and outdoor series.

No way could we have done that on a 125.
jmar
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jmar 1/19/2011 10:21pm
1/19/2011 10:21pm
jmar wrote:
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level...
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level, and I don't care what type of pre-mix you use.
CamP wrote:
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x...
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x what you were spending on the early YZF250's Jake was racing. It's crazy money.
It's going to be crazy money whether it's a two stroke or a four stroke.

A mid to back of the pack rider can get by on mild modified motor with a decent life span.
No different than the two stroke days.
BadExample 1/19/2011 10:23pm
1/19/2011 10:23pm
kaboom645 wrote:
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season...
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season. My bike would get a new ring once a week, and new piston/wrist pin/bearing once a month. My bike was built and tuned to the max and had no problem pulling the YZ250f's when they first came out. Maybe I was just lucky enough to have an engine tuner who knew how to build a reliable race engine.. Daryl Youngblood and myself got support rides with a local Vertimati dealer at the end of '02... 15min was the magic number that we both could get the bike to last before it blew. I switched to a Yamaha 250F for 03 and about once a month something in the motor broke(hence how I earned my screen name on here). I walked away in 04 and didnt return till the year before last. My new 450F at the time didnt far any better as it blew on the 3rd ride.. Maybe I am riding the bike wrong? maybe its just bad luck. I am a mechanic/fabricator by trade so I know its not a maintence problem or even a "fixing it till its broke" thing either..

Oh and sombody asked to post pics here is mine
Current 2010 KTM 250sx
jmar wrote:
15 min won't cut it at an outdoor national. In 01 my son went through three motors on his YZ 125 at Troy before Sundays main...
15 min won't cut it at an outdoor national.

In 01 my son went through three motors on his YZ 125 at Troy before Sundays main. I had enough, and I had bought a YZ 250f earlier that year just for kicks thinking that I might want to ride it. After Troy we put a yosh pipe on the 250f and did nothing but change the oil and put gas in the thing for the remainder of the season.

In 02 Bobby Regan wanted to get into pro level racing, and was good enough to furnish a transport truck. I rounded up the bikes, parts, and other sponsors and Star put in it's first year in pro level racing. Other than frying two motors, (each rider fried their practice bike) because the powder coaters failed to plug the bolt holes in the frame (sand in the frame tubes contaminating the oil) when they sand blasted the frames. We had three bikes for each rider, but used very few parts for the entire supercross and outdoor series.

No way could we have done that on a 125.
Who was tweaking the engines on the YZ?
kaboom645 1/19/2011 10:26pm
1/19/2011 10:26pm
jmar wrote:
15 min won't cut it at an outdoor national. In 01 my son went through three motors on his YZ 125 at Troy before Sundays main...
15 min won't cut it at an outdoor national.

In 01 my son went through three motors on his YZ 125 at Troy before Sundays main. I had enough, and I had bought a YZ 250f earlier that year just for kicks thinking that I might want to ride it. After Troy we put a yosh pipe on the 250f and did nothing but change the oil and put gas in the thing for the remainder of the season.

In 02 Bobby Regan wanted to get into pro level racing, and was good enough to furnish a transport truck. I rounded up the bikes, parts, and other sponsors and Star put in it's first year in pro level racing. Other than frying two motors, (each rider fried their practice bike) because the powder coaters failed to plug the bolt holes in the frame (sand in the frame tubes contaminating the oil) when they sand blasted the frames. We had three bikes for each rider, but used very few parts for the entire supercross and outdoor series.

No way could we have done that on a 125.
15min wouldnt even cut it for a pro class race in the Florida gold cup series.. The vertimati's were so bad our mechanics were changing motors between motos.. Broken cams, and bent valves were a contant problem on them..
jmar
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jmar 1/19/2011 10:28pm
1/19/2011 10:28pm
BadExample wrote:
Why don't you pull the PC pricing for both on mods? I bet the current 4 stroke are 3 times more expensive to modify and maintain...
Why don't you pull the PC pricing for both on mods? I bet the current 4 stroke are 3 times more expensive to modify and maintain at pro level than a killer bee. Get your shit updated SlimJIM..!It is like road racing!
kaboom645 wrote:
To fully build a 125 would cost about the same as a top of the line 4 stroke exhaust system..
I don't know about you, but after four or five cranks, we would change the cases.
Put's a dent in a parts allowance pretty quick.
jmar
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jmar 1/19/2011 10:31pm
1/19/2011 10:31pm
kaboom645 wrote:
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season...
Jim, I was a professional card holder a while back and rode the 125 class.. I usually went through 2 cranks, and 1 clutch per season. My bike would get a new ring once a week, and new piston/wrist pin/bearing once a month. My bike was built and tuned to the max and had no problem pulling the YZ250f's when they first came out. Maybe I was just lucky enough to have an engine tuner who knew how to build a reliable race engine.. Daryl Youngblood and myself got support rides with a local Vertimati dealer at the end of '02... 15min was the magic number that we both could get the bike to last before it blew. I switched to a Yamaha 250F for 03 and about once a month something in the motor broke(hence how I earned my screen name on here). I walked away in 04 and didnt return till the year before last. My new 450F at the time didnt far any better as it blew on the 3rd ride.. Maybe I am riding the bike wrong? maybe its just bad luck. I am a mechanic/fabricator by trade so I know its not a maintence problem or even a "fixing it till its broke" thing either..

Oh and sombody asked to post pics here is mine
Current 2010 KTM 250sx
jmar wrote:
15 min won't cut it at an outdoor national. In 01 my son went through three motors on his YZ 125 at Troy before Sundays main...
15 min won't cut it at an outdoor national.

In 01 my son went through three motors on his YZ 125 at Troy before Sundays main. I had enough, and I had bought a YZ 250f earlier that year just for kicks thinking that I might want to ride it. After Troy we put a yosh pipe on the 250f and did nothing but change the oil and put gas in the thing for the remainder of the season.

In 02 Bobby Regan wanted to get into pro level racing, and was good enough to furnish a transport truck. I rounded up the bikes, parts, and other sponsors and Star put in it's first year in pro level racing. Other than frying two motors, (each rider fried their practice bike) because the powder coaters failed to plug the bolt holes in the frame (sand in the frame tubes contaminating the oil) when they sand blasted the frames. We had three bikes for each rider, but used very few parts for the entire supercross and outdoor series.

No way could we have done that on a 125.
BadExample wrote:
Who was tweaking the engines on the YZ?
FMF, PC and Reynard Mods.

None of them would last any time. Disposable cylinders at that level.
jmar
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jmar 1/19/2011 10:57pm
1/19/2011 10:57pm
jmar wrote:
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level...
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level, and I don't care what type of pre-mix you use.
CamP wrote:
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x...
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x what you were spending on the early YZF250's Jake was racing. It's crazy money.
Reality is, that the small bore class, two stroke or four stroke, is ruled by money. Not so in the large bores. Put a pipe and an ignition on a 450 and you won't be out motored. Change the oil, and oil filters. Be very self conscience while changing the air filter, check the valves once in while and the thing will last a hell of a long time.

CamP

How long did your thumpers last you?

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CamP
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CamP 1/19/2011 11:28pm
1/19/2011 11:28pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 11:30pm
jmar wrote:
Reality is, that the small bore class, two stroke or four stroke, is ruled by money. Not so in the large bores. Put a pipe and...
Reality is, that the small bore class, two stroke or four stroke, is ruled by money. Not so in the large bores. Put a pipe and an ignition on a 450 and you won't be out motored. Change the oil, and oil filters. Be very self conscience while changing the air filter, check the valves once in while and the thing will last a hell of a long time.

CamP

How long did your thumpers last you?
Short of a pro rider, a 450 top end is good for 100 hours of hard use and the cranks will go about 200. When it comes to open class racing, 450F's give a lot of bang for the buck and most of them are great bikes.



On the other hand, if I was given the choice of racing a 250F or a 250T, there's no question I would choose the 250T. A 250T is a better motorcycle than the 250F because it's lighter, faster and less expensive.







themrtoad
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themrtoad 1/20/2011 1:02am
1/20/2011 1:02am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Although it was shoehorned into the "125" class, I think the notion was that the 250f would be the "smaller" class bike with the 450's in...
Although it was shoehorned into the "125" class, I think the notion was that the 250f would be the "smaller" class bike with the 450's in the "premier/larger/whateveryouwantocallit" class. I recall there being a lot more noise complaining about the 250f's from the get go than the 450's taking over. Probably because the best riders but for Ferry were on the 250's still, and RC didn't go over until 2004.

I also think the existing rules may have allowed it. The 250 class always allowed a displacement advantage to the four strokes, 550cc I believe until 04 or so, and I think the same deal may have existed in the 125 class. Someone must have a rule book from 2000.

Blame the Swedes . . . they're the ones who started the big four banger renewal.


Ouch that one hurted...lol
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mr_big 1/20/2011 4:53am
1/20/2011 4:53am
Im not going to write any letters to any manufacturers.
I couldnt care less what Stewart rides, I couldnt care less what any pro rides.
I dont even care what the local 17yo hotshot lines up next to me on.
I enjoy beating 450's, & I enjoy getting beat by 250f's.
I enjoy racing my bike, which is what Im doing while all this chest-beating is going on.
Im also not going to suck on the Japanese teat, which has effectively said to us, "fuck you". Although, we did put ourselves in that position....
Never again will my cash go to the Japanese, Im sure they couldnt give a crap about that, but neither do I.
When KTM stop building me a modern 2-stroke (& an awesome one at that), I'll stop riding & take my wife on a holiday I've been promising her for the last 12 years haha.
But there really is nothing better than passing a 450 on a whooped-out, deep sandy straight.
keeptwostrokesalive 1/20/2011 4:54am
1/20/2011 4:54am
three9zero wrote:
I bought a used 2007 for $ 2700 this fall, I like it way more then the 2010 kx 250 f that I had before. Nothing...
I bought a used 2007 for $ 2700 this fall, I like it way more then the 2010 kx 250 f that I had before. Nothing like smashing berms and clutch-n....
mxb2 wrote:
Used? Were they sold out of new bikes?
BadExample wrote:
Cheaper bike. Same results. Wiser choice. The kid is 17 at school and rides with his own money. Not like some annoying kids with their daddys...
Cheaper bike. Same results. Wiser choice. The kid is 17 at school and rides with his own money. Not like some annoying kids with their daddys 4 stroke here.
That is 100% true. I bought this bike with my money and not with my parents help. They didnt pay a penny for it.
miedosoracing1 1/20/2011 5:04am
1/20/2011 5:04am Edited Date/Time 1/20/2011 7:47am
jmar wrote:
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level...
No offence BadExample, but when pull national level HP out of a 125, there is a very short life span. Sleeves are crap at this level, and I don't care what type of pre-mix you use.
CamP wrote:
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x...
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x what you were spending on the early YZF250's Jake was racing. It's crazy money.
jmar wrote:
Reality is, that the small bore class, two stroke or four stroke, is ruled by money. Not so in the large bores. Put a pipe and...
Reality is, that the small bore class, two stroke or four stroke, is ruled by money. Not so in the large bores. Put a pipe and an ignition on a 450 and you won't be out motored. Change the oil, and oil filters. Be very self conscience while changing the air filter, check the valves once in while and the thing will last a hell of a long time.

CamP

How long did your thumpers last you?
jim, I'm not thinking anyone is doubting you on the cost of a 125 2 stroke. They were at their peak at the end. The 250F's are as well. That makes them a land mine just like the 125's were. But again, you are arguing the same principles of 2 strokes aren't as good when many here are talking 250 to 250. I'm pretty sure, you would agree, that a 250F will now cost much more, than a 250 2 stroke at the pro level. First of all, you most likely won't be modding those as much as the 125 was getting to. Another thing you are failing to realize, is that when you are comparing the 450F, go ahead and compare that to a service honda 500AF. Because if the 250 vs 250 ever passed, the 450F would be in open and the 500AF would be racing against it. So then we can talk about cost on that, and that bike will run a full season with changing the oil once a week and filter after every ride. That is it. So when you compare, please compare apples to apples. Because in this thread you are not...
mxpilot43 1/20/2011 5:51am
1/20/2011 5:51am
BadExample wrote:
Why don't you pull the PC pricing for both on mods? I bet the current 4 stroke are 3 times more expensive to modify and maintain...
Why don't you pull the PC pricing for both on mods? I bet the current 4 stroke are 3 times more expensive to modify and maintain at pro level than a killer bee. Get your shit updated SlimJIM..!It is like road racing!
kaboom645 wrote:
To fully build a 125 would cost about the same as a top of the line 4 stroke exhaust system..
jmar wrote:
I don't know about you, but after four or five cranks, we would change the cases.
Put's a dent in a parts allowance pretty quick.
dude your mechanic sucked
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mooch 1/20/2011 9:35am
1/20/2011 9:35am Edited Date/Time 1/20/2011 9:36am
GuyB wrote:
I'm trying to decide between Hall of Fame and Dumbgeon for this one. There are a few nuggets of good stuff, but there's also a lot...
I'm trying to decide between Hall of Fame and Dumbgeon for this one. There are a few nuggets of good stuff, but there's also a lot of crazy thrown in.
All things considered, it's been a good thread where most folks have managed to not get too ramped up...my vote is HOF rather than dumbgeon.
miedosoracing1 1/20/2011 9:52am
1/20/2011 9:52am Edited Date/Time 1/20/2011 9:53am
GuyB wrote:
I'm trying to decide between Hall of Fame and Dumbgeon for this one. There are a few nuggets of good stuff, but there's also a lot...
I'm trying to decide between Hall of Fame and Dumbgeon for this one. There are a few nuggets of good stuff, but there's also a lot of crazy thrown in.
mooch wrote:
All things considered, it's been a good thread where most folks have managed to not get too ramped up...my vote is HOF rather than dumbgeon.
I think Burns just got a little frustrated, because he was asking straight questions about the fact that it was only a petition for 150cc and 300cc, rather than how they would respond with a 250 vs 250 scenario. I am still chuckling over this quote "it took sixteen pages before somebody decided to go full retard."
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848
Joined
7/10/2009
Location
Bushnell, IL US
OldYZRider1 1/20/2011 1:58pm
1/20/2011 1:58pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2011 6:40pm
As far as used bike sales go, I'd imagine the shift to four strokes shot the shit out the resale pricing for dealers offering trades. Most customers don't want a 2st and are scared to buy a used 4st hence little trade-in value to offer a customer to help buoy up sales of new bikes. In my business (not motorcycles), sales of used equipment is pretty profitable, margins are higher than that of new equipment. and certainly worth doing.

By the way, I've bought two new KTM 200's in the last 5 years so I'm trying to support a manufacturer thats actively developing what I choose to ride.
miedosoracing1 1/20/2011 2:32pm
1/20/2011 2:32pm
I don't know about wanting used 2 strokes. I haven't found a nice CR250 04 and up within 400 miles in a month. I was telling my friend, I may have missed the boat. Maybe the supply is drying up.
Flatliner
Profile picture for user Flatliner
Posts
4110
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11/3/2009
Location
CA
Flatliner 1/20/2011 4:22pm
1/20/2011 4:22pm
CamP wrote:
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x...
You went through a grace period on the early YZ250F's, Jim. The money spent today on building and maintaining a National 250F engine is about 3x what you were spending on the early YZF250's Jake was racing. It's crazy money.
jmar wrote:
Reality is, that the small bore class, two stroke or four stroke, is ruled by money. Not so in the large bores. Put a pipe and...
Reality is, that the small bore class, two stroke or four stroke, is ruled by money. Not so in the large bores. Put a pipe and an ignition on a 450 and you won't be out motored. Change the oil, and oil filters. Be very self conscience while changing the air filter, check the valves once in while and the thing will last a hell of a long time.

CamP

How long did your thumpers last you?
miedosoracing1 wrote:
jim, I'm not thinking anyone is doubting you on the cost of a 125 2 stroke. They were at their peak at the end. The 250F's...
jim, I'm not thinking anyone is doubting you on the cost of a 125 2 stroke. They were at their peak at the end. The 250F's are as well. That makes them a land mine just like the 125's were. But again, you are arguing the same principles of 2 strokes aren't as good when many here are talking 250 to 250. I'm pretty sure, you would agree, that a 250F will now cost much more, than a 250 2 stroke at the pro level. First of all, you most likely won't be modding those as much as the 125 was getting to. Another thing you are failing to realize, is that when you are comparing the 450F, go ahead and compare that to a service honda 500AF. Because if the 250 vs 250 ever passed, the 450F would be in open and the 500AF would be racing against it. So then we can talk about cost on that, and that bike will run a full season with changing the oil once a week and filter after every ride. That is it. So when you compare, please compare apples to apples. Because in this thread you are not...
Would any pro race a service honda 500 though?
miedosoracing1 1/20/2011 4:27pm
1/20/2011 4:27pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2011 4:29pm

Would any pro race a service honda 500 though?

Service Honda said they had riders lined to ride their bikes, if the rules changed at one point. I think pro's who want a ride, ride what they are given or told to ride, not what they want in many cases.

I still say a 350-400cc 2 stroke with a balanced motor and electric start, would probably be the best 2 stroke ever.

Post a reply to: Jody, MXA, Two Strokes and Matthes