Jody, MXA, Two Strokes and Matthes

GrapeApe
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1/19/2011 8:50am
mxpilot43 wrote:
jmar why you so uptight about all this, you just looking for something to do, or you just like to argue, looks like you dont even...
jmar why you so uptight about all this, you just looking for something to do, or you just like to argue, looks like you dont even ride so whats up why your panties in such a bunch?
Have you ever read a thread in a forum that contained such asinine claims, assertions and allegations that you felt compelled to comment, despite your disinterest in the actual subject matter? Yeah, I have too.
burn1986
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1/19/2011 8:54am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 8:57am
The reason its so long, and everyone is so interested, is because most people generally want a 2-stroke resurgence (4s and 2s alike). Well, everyone but you know who and you know who.
1/19/2011 9:03am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 9:05am
burn1986 wrote:
It's unfortunate, but 2-strokes are going away in the US. Even going out and buying a new 2-stroke is not going to save what the Big4...
It's unfortunate, but 2-strokes are going away in the US. Even going out and buying a new 2-stroke is not going to save what the Big4, AMA, MX Sports and DMG are intent on destroying. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.
jmar wrote:
It's called natural progression.

No one is trying to destroy anything.
It is called natural regression.. 4 stroke bikes brought nothing new or better to sport.. just more expensive,heavier and more injuries. 4 stroke are only good for the OEMS. After all the threads here about the subjetc you still don't get it?? Wow you are slow..a real 4 stroke guy.. oh yeah.. You don"t even ride anymore! lol 4 stroke is like cancer.. it kills slowly but surely the sport.
burn1986
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1/19/2011 9:04am
Here's kind of a summary of the thread -
1. Jody Weisel made a 2-stroke plug in MXA.
2. Hellion mentioned it in this thread.
3. Burn1986 made some very wise comments about 2-strokes (Cool
4. DC said 2-strokes are the Devil.
5. FTE agreed with him and talked about self help books.
6. Burn1986 then summed it all up about the Japs attacking the US.
7. Jmar wanted to sell us his kids bikes that were brand new, and couldn't understand why we didn't want little kids' 4-strokes.

That pretty much sums it up, I think.

The Shop

jmar
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1/19/2011 9:08am
# 7 is a far reaching assumption.

burn1986
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1/19/2011 9:10am
Ha, I couldn't help it!
RedRider31
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1/19/2011 9:30am
Christ on a pushbike! This thread is ridiculous!

Buy whatever kind of bike you want, and have fun riding!

If you don't like that the pros are all on 4 strokes, then don't watch the races and go sulk in a corner.

I don't know about you, but I'm going to attend every race within my means or watch on t.v. and enjoy it. I'm going to ride my evil four stroke at the track and have a blast! I'm going to ride on public land legally, within the sound regs and continue to do my part to protect my and every other riders right to ride the trails.

There are some things you can't change by whining on here. Just do what you can to promote and protect our sport, and have fun, instead of slinging e-mud on the internet.
burn1986
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1/19/2011 9:35am
Good for you. Maybe you can pump jmar around.
RedRider31
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1/19/2011 9:58am
burn1986 wrote:
Good for you. Maybe you can pump jmar around.
Yea, I'll get right on that...


For the record, I would love to see some sort of 125 class added to the pro level. This thread had just gotten stupid with accusations thrown around about who killed this sport. Makes the same old "2 stroke for president" folks seem that much more tinfoil hat-ish, with all their conspiracies.
burn1986
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1/19/2011 10:07am
That's because there is a "real" push to rid the sport of 2-strokes. When you have an AMA official/ race promoter refusing to even mention a possible 25cc increase to the Big 4, then what would you call it?

Man, I've got to stop. OK Newmann, I've stepped away.
RedRider31
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1/19/2011 10:19am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 10:23am
So you think the OEMs are going to give a sh!t about some rule change and start churning out two strokes again?

That would be awesome, but I don't see that as a likely scenario.

It would be great for privateers, but how many top level pros have told you personally that they would be willing to go back to a two stroke, if that did happen?

btw, are you an newmann both in Louisiana? i'm from there.
GuyB
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1/19/2011 10:25am
I'm trying to decide between Hall of Fame and Dumbgeon for this one. There are a few nuggets of good stuff, but there's also a lot of crazy thrown in.
newmann
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1/19/2011 10:25am
RedRider31 wrote:
So you think the OEMs are going to give a sh!t about some rule change and start churning out two strokes again? That would be awesome...
So you think the OEMs are going to give a sh!t about some rule change and start churning out two strokes again?

That would be awesome, but I don't see that as a likely scenario.

It would be great for privateers, but how many top level pros have told you personally that they would be willing to go back to a two stroke, if that did happen?

btw, are you an newmann both in Louisiana? i'm from there.
If the playing field were leveled and they were being paid, you bet your ass there would be some top level pros that would go back to them. Hell, Short and Alessi dropped 100cc because that's what they're getting paid to ride. Cairoli too.
RedRider31
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1/19/2011 10:28am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 10:31am
Well okay then. It would be a good question for Matthes or somebody else to ask some of the guys in an interview this weekend.

The impossible part of the equation to me is the OEMs that quit producing them start making them again all of a sudden.
DC
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1/19/2011 10:29am
Burn, that's the third time you have lied here by putting words in my mouth. That is neither accurate nor fair, but apparently it suits your character and your integrity.

DC
MX Sports
1/19/2011 10:36am
DC - you are awesome.. still reading this, everyone knows ( i think) where you stand on this, yet you're still interested enough in the discussion to check in.

Looking forward to the 125 cup later this year.. and lots of SX & MX between now & Then.
FreshTopEnd
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1/19/2011 10:41am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 10:41am
GuyB wrote:
I'm trying to decide between Hall of Fame and Dumbgeon for this one. There are a few nuggets of good stuff, but there's also a lot...
I'm trying to decide between Hall of Fame and Dumbgeon for this one. There are a few nuggets of good stuff, but there's also a lot of crazy thrown in.
It was going well, encouraging to see an exchange of ideas and disagreements expressed reasonably, and then someone soiled his diaper.
FreshTopEnd
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1/19/2011 10:44am
By the way, my "new" engine should come soon for the thousand year long project, lol.

ATKpilot99
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1/19/2011 11:03am
Thats it...I'm buying a 4 stroke. Smile
CamP
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1/19/2011 11:08am
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to manufacture and ultimately sell. It is also slower and less reliable than a 250T.

Why on earth would the stewards of the sport prop up a machine that is less reliable, heavier, costs more, and is SLOWER? The analytical side of my brain says that makes absolutely no sense at all.
ATKpilot99
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1/19/2011 11:19am
CamP wrote:
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to...
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to manufacture and ultimately sell. It is also slower and less reliable than a 250T.

Why on earth would the stewards of the sport prop up a machine that is less reliable, heavier, costs more, and is SLOWER? The analytical side of my brain says that makes absolutely no sense at all.
Because it was never meant to be compared to 250 2 strokes . Only 125s
mtnr
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., ID, USA
1/19/2011 11:20am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 11:24am
CamP wrote:
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to...
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to manufacture and ultimately sell. It is also slower and less reliable than a 250T.

Why on earth would the stewards of the sport prop up a machine that is less reliable, heavier, costs more, and is SLOWER? The analytical side of my brain says that makes absolutely no sense at all.
As stated by DC about a million times over the last years..... because Honda saw the potential for the California legislators to rid Southern California of 2 stroke based motorcycles and other machinery. They took the green angle in marketing, which they have done since day one. Yamaha already had the fourstroke going and people couldn't shut up on this very board about how bad ass it was .... Lots of other stuff..... etc....



How do you miss that. Its what happened and others followed suit. Yep it sucks, I would suggest anyone who wants a 2 stroke revival in racing to build the bike, make it cheap, start an amateur series, and put up lots of contigency and a pro series. Two strokes will come back, if that is to much, then buy a used or new two stroke and race it. If that is to much, then .....
Dropbear
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1/19/2011 11:24am
By the way, my "new" engine should come soon for the thousand year long project, lol. [img]http://i.ebayimg.com/21/!CCfNE0wEWk~$(KGrHqEOKisE0oFnFdNcBNLRowNjI!~~_3.JPG[/img]
By the way, my "new" engine should come soon for the thousand year long project, lol.

Work of art.
CamP
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1/19/2011 11:25am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Because it was never meant to be compared to 250 2 strokes . Only 125s
The 250F and 250T race head to head in AMA sanctioned events, so a comparison of their individual merits is justified.
mtnr
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1/19/2011 11:26am
By the way, my "new" engine should come soon for the thousand year long project, lol. [img]http://i.ebayimg.com/21/!CCfNE0wEWk~$(KGrHqEOKisE0oFnFdNcBNLRowNjI!~~_3.JPG[/img]
By the way, my "new" engine should come soon for the thousand year long project, lol.

Dropbear wrote:
Work of art.
She's a beauty.
The Rock
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1/19/2011 11:28am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 11:30am
burn1986 wrote:
FTE and DC - Well, I think we all know the Big 4 aren' t going to attack us, but it is ridiculous to think that...
FTE and DC - Well, I think we all know the Big 4 aren' t going to attack us, but it is ridiculous to think that the Big 4 could not be approached with a 25cc increase for 125s and 250s (if 50cc for the 250 is too much). This is such a small cc increase that it would still give the 4-strokes the edge but also help toward giving the two strokes a slight chance.

25cc!

I've stepped away from the computer.
There is a lot more to this issue than just 25cc so to me your point has no merit. This isn't a matter of displacement but major changes of direction for a couple of the manufacturers.

Honda as a corporation is now only four strokes so they'll never return to two strokes.
If people want to buy new two strokes there are options from several manufacturers.

While I support 250cc two strokes against 250 cc four strokes in professional racing I understand the resistance to this especially when the call for this change is coming from people who wouldn't be affected by this change i.e. largely amateur racers and couch potatoes.

I am very glad there is a glimmer of hope with a 125cc two stroke class at a couple of races in the 2011 MX Sports professional series and hope this is expanded in 2012. Putting a renewed focus on the 125 class is just what our sport needs right now so we can continue adding riders at the younger end of the age spectrum.
CamP
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1/19/2011 11:30am
CamP wrote:
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to...
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to manufacture and ultimately sell. It is also slower and less reliable than a 250T.

Why on earth would the stewards of the sport prop up a machine that is less reliable, heavier, costs more, and is SLOWER? The analytical side of my brain says that makes absolutely no sense at all.
mtnr wrote:
As stated by DC about a million times over the last years..... because Honda saw the potential for the California legislators to rid Southern California of...
As stated by DC about a million times over the last years..... because Honda saw the potential for the California legislators to rid Southern California of 2 stroke based motorcycles and other machinery. They took the green angle in marketing, which they have done since day one. Yamaha already had the fourstroke going and people couldn't shut up on this very board about how bad ass it was .... Lots of other stuff..... etc....



How do you miss that. Its what happened and others followed suit. Yep it sucks, I would suggest anyone who wants a 2 stroke revival in racing to build the bike, make it cheap, start an amateur series, and put up lots of contigency and a pro series. Two strokes will come back, if that is to much, then buy a used or new two stroke and race it. If that is to much, then .....
Step away from the politics...then think about whether or not it really makes any sense whatsoever.
newmann
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1/19/2011 11:33am
CamP wrote:
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to...
From a totally pragmatic standpoint, the 250F shouldn't even exist. When compared to a 250T, the 250F has more parts, weighs more and costs more to manufacture and ultimately sell. It is also slower and less reliable than a 250T.

Why on earth would the stewards of the sport prop up a machine that is less reliable, heavier, costs more, and is SLOWER? The analytical side of my brain says that makes absolutely no sense at all.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Because it was never meant to be compared to 250 2 strokes . Only 125s
And the analytical side of me says that makes absolutely no sense at all.
Dropbear
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1/19/2011 11:38am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2011 11:56am
By the way, my "new" engine should come soon for the thousand year long project, lol. [img]http://i.ebayimg.com/21/!CCfNE0wEWk~$(KGrHqEOKisE0oFnFdNcBNLRowNjI!~~_3.JPG[/img]
By the way, my "new" engine should come soon for the thousand year long project, lol.

Dropbear wrote:
Work of art.
mtnr wrote:
She's a beauty.
From memory, 38 HP in 1978. That's more than todays 250F figures 33 yrs ago.
hellion
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1/19/2011 11:55am
When I started this thread over a week ago I never imagined it would have the legs it turned out to have. Something touched a cord, and unlike so many of the two stroke vs. four stroke threads this one managed to stay on track and is generally positive. A lot of good ideas were brought forth and I think by the ammount of hits this thread has generated it's pretty obvious that something is going on here.
I think two strokes will make a comeback, because we as riders will make it happen. We can't wait for rule changes to help the movement along. We have to speak with our wallets. It's already happening in my corner of the world, make it happen in yours if it's something you want to see happen. Go against the grain, smell the pre-mix, feel what it's like to ride a bike that reacts to your input and not some heavy numb couch, be cool and different now because soon everyone will be on the bandwagon and while it will still be cool you won't be different anymore.
This thread is starting to go roundy round, like NASCAR. And I'm no fan of NASCAR. When something new happens I'll be back, but for now, I'm out.

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