Jody, MXA, Two Strokes and Matthes

CamP wrote:

There are very few visionaries in life, and even fewer visionaries in motocross.

BadExample wrote:

Another ignorant and useless post.Simple answer to this is.. You have more 4 stroke in circulation nowadays because people are more exposed to them and are...

Another ignorant and useless post.Simple answer to this is.. You have more 4 stroke in circulation nowadays because people are more exposed to them and are more available.. Go to you dealerships.. a shitloads of 4 stroke.. 2-3 2 stroke hidden somewhere.. Of course.. you have the salesman trying to push you the koo-laid.. People are brainwashed to them because PRO racing are using them.. Open a magazine...here ya go 4 stroke everywhere.. yes the racing is less exciting .. JS is more fun to watch on any 2 stroke and this goes to every riders.. . 4 stroke are overweight, ugly and sound horrible. This is no nostalgia.. We just a bunch a people that like to think for themselves and know that four stroke are nothing but crap. We all know if the 2 stroke get more exposure/available to the public and AMA amend the unfair rules.. The 4 stroke new era will be gone tomorrow.

JB 19 wrote:

I love my 250f. Riding it is the most fun I have had in a long time. Its the perfect bike for me. When I ride...

I love my 250f. Riding it is the most fun I have had in a long time. Its the perfect bike for me. When I ride it I don't notice any of the negative things you talk about. ........and.......gasp.........I think my twin piper sounds kind of cool.

All this talk about how many people four strokes ran off.........how about how many guys bought a 250f because they are old guys who lost interest in riding 125's or 250's. I know quite a few of them around here. The mellow easy to ride power made riding fun again without having to ride a slow heavy hog like an XR 250.

Those are guys who bought new bikes who basically said they were done riding dirt bikes until these bikes came along.

CamP wrote:

There are very few visionaries in life, and even fewer visionaries in motocross.

HOGIE888 wrote:

even fewer visionaries in motocross

AJ @ Service is one of those MX visionaires

mooch wrote:

Themrtoad, English may not be your first language but nice job. It's clear you're not alone in your line of thinking. By the way, what's your...

Themrtoad, English may not be your first language but nice job. It's clear you're not alone in your line of thinking.

By the way, what's your screen name "themrtoad" originate from?

GuyB wrote:

Ever hear the song, "Witch Hunt" from Rush? The night is black, without a moon. The air is thick and still. The vigilantes gather on The...

Ever hear the song, "Witch Hunt" from Rush?


The night is black, without a moon.
The air is thick and still.
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torchlit hill.

Features distorted in the flickering light,
Faces are twisted and grotesque.
Silent and stern in the sweltering night,
The mob moves like demons possesed.
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right,
Confident their ways are best.

The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will.
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill.

They say there are strangers who threaten us,
Our immigrants and infidels.
They say there is strangeness to danger us
In our theatres and bookstore shelves,
That those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves.

Quick to judge,
Quick to anger,
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand.


That line in bold might be one of my favorite song lyrics of all time. But I think most won't get it.

shmoo wrote:

Good one! Fellow racers, the four-stroke is no more planned obsolescence than the two stroke ever was. (It wasn't). Those of us who currently keep the...

Good one!

Fellow racers, the four-stroke is no more planned obsolescence than the two stroke ever was. (It wasn't). Those of us who currently keep the sport afloat spend no more maintaining the new four-stroke than our old two stroke. Some spend way more, but they are the minority.

The cost of professional MX has become more expensive, but MX wasn't professional enough before, and its pretty good now. Amateur car racers don't expect to be able to walk into their dealerships and buy a Formula1 car. Why should we?

I'm thankful that I can walk into my dealer and plop down 10K to own and race my four-stroke and frankly I don't care if the guy on the line next to me is on a two-stroke or four-stroke.

But professional racing needs rules, equity and homogeneity, and professional sport won't survive with stupid rules and classes and a bunch of obviously different machines on the track against each other at the same time.

The last thing we need is a rule that would allow MA800 or more likely, KR194, to line up on a KTM250SX next to the PC boys. For one, it would kill Mitch, and really, no one wants that.

If you think you're so smart, go make your own lightbulbs. When you've got that sorted come back to us with a better solution.

themrtoad wrote:

Both you and GuyB are great debators, but I don't buy your rethoric(?) Supercross on a professionel level can exist without lot's of sold bikes/tracks/dealers etc...

Both you and GuyB are great debators, but I don't buy your rethoric(?)

Supercross on a professionel level can exist without lot's of sold bikes/tracks/dealers etc.

Motocross can't.

Motocross used to be huge in the 80' and 90's. That's why there are som many delaers and tracks in every little village. Normal familys could afford having a kid who raced mx.

Normal familys can't put 10k on an new bike. A bike that is very hard to sell when it's used, and if it has an engine failure it cost 4k to fix it.

The pro scene is only alive because of a few sponsors (KTM, Energy drinks, Teka and a few more) It's not very solid because they can't sell what the riders race it's to expensive for normal familys.
If you can't see this put our sport in a very dangerous position you are blind and very shortsighted!

CamP wrote:

The idea that motocross machines should continually be developed and improved is short sighted. Think of the cold war between the the US and the former...

The idea that motocross machines should continually be developed and improved is short sighted. Think of the cold war between the the US and the former Soviet Union. The arms race continued until someone went broke first. That's what's happening now in our little sport. The cost of the technology eventually has a negative impact on ridership in a sport that is supposed to be dominated by kids and young adults. If only vets can afford to buy and maintain the machines, the sport is lost. The other side of the coin is injury. If the machines develop to the point where half the beginners feel that a 100' jump is easy, there is going to be an increase of crippling injuries and deaths. I believe we are already at the point were the bikes are too good and there is more than just the cost of the machines that ultimately affects ridership. Most of the affluent people that can actually afford to pay for their children to race modern motocross, are smart enough to know that the likelihood of permanent injury or death is a real possibility so nobody should be surprised when the manufacturers sell less units and race turnouts get smaller and smaller.

If there was a voice of reason, it would tell us to quit sawing off the limb we are standing on.

hellion wrote:

It seems like the hip thing to do to bash Jody and MXA these days. He's older than the other current editors, seems to be grouchy...

It seems like the hip thing to do to bash Jody and MXA these days. He's older than the other current editors, seems to be grouchy, and is set in his ways.

On the other hand he lives for Moto, still races and rides weekly, and has vast experience with the machinery we ride and the people who are responsible for building it. Plus he is not afraid to speak his mind regardless of who he offends.

Lately he has really been pushing the two stroke issue. He has been in the sport longer than just about anyone, has seen where it's been, and has a good idea about where it's going. I applaud him for using his voice to make a difference. For a long time I've thought this two stroke vs. four stroke argument was futile. The four stroke was being crammed down out throats and there was nothing we could do about it. But these threads keep popping up more and more regularly, and more and more two strokes keep showing up at the tracks and trails. Surely the manufacturers must be feeling the sting of decreased sales. KTM can't keep their two stroke line in stock though. Is anyone paying attention at the wheel.

I see now that the main problem is the AMA, and their resistance to change a simple rule. Sure, all the manufacturers would have a fit at first, but ten years from now when the sport is growing again they will see this as a landmark moment in our sports history. Make the 450 class a true 450 class, two strokes and four strokes up to 450 cc's. The same with the 250's. And for gods sake bring back the 125 class. Kids moving off 85's onto 250f's makes so little sense it's unbelievable.

I'm dating myself here, but when I was coming up we used to have four classes. 100's, 125's, 250's, and open. And all the experts raced all the classes. Bikes were relativeley cheap, and you'd race half the year in 100's and 250's, and the other half on 125's and open's. And you know what? The 100's were a freaking blast to race. Sure they were slow, but man you had to wring that thing out and be real creative and smart with line choice and race craft. You should have seen JoJo Keller make a 100 go, and he was a pretty big boy even then. The racing was both affordable and exciting to watch or participate in.

I know Steve Matthes is working at Racer X again and he probably likes his job and doesn't want to piss Davey off too much. But I've even heard him complain that four strokes have ruined racing. And he's just talking about it as a pure spectator. He is so right. Go on youtube and look up any race from the 90's and tell me it's not way more exciting than todays racing where they crawl through the corner and then blast off leaping the whole straight. Watch Reed ride his YZ250 and appreciate an awesome display of talent, or RC just flogging his KX and swapping and bucking and never letting off. You can't ride a 450 like that, you'd get splattered. It makes the racing boring when there is only one guy (JS) willing to hang onto a 450 on the limit.

I guess that if we speak with our wallets we can eventually effect a change here. But it will be slow and the sport will suffer greatly in the meantime. The AMA could make the change happen a lot faster, but do they have the balls? I doubt it.

CamP wrote:

There are very few visionaries in life, and even fewer visionaries in motocross.

HOGIE888 wrote:

even fewer visionaries in motocross

AJ @ Service is one of those MX visionaires

CamP wrote:

I have purchased 2 new bikes in the last 3 years but I don't think that I'm in the demographic that the OEM's really should be...

I have purchased 2 new bikes in the last 3 years but I don't think that I'm in the demographic that the OEM's really should be going after unless 47 year old neverwas's are the future of the sport.

jmar wrote:

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting. Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push...

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting.

Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push your wishes down other moto enthusiast throats?

BTW: If I were in the market for a two stroke, there is no question about it, Service Honda would get my business.

CamP wrote:

I have purchased 2 new bikes in the last 3 years but I don't think that I'm in the demographic that the OEM's really should be...

I have purchased 2 new bikes in the last 3 years but I don't think that I'm in the demographic that the OEM's really should be going after unless 47 year old neverwas's are the future of the sport.

jmar wrote:

And were either of those bikes new two strokes?

jmar wrote:

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting. Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push...

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting.

Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push your wishes down other moto enthusiast throats?

BTW: If I were in the market for a two stroke, there is no question about it, Service Honda would get my business.

seth505 wrote:

So your solution is go to a shop that sells custom 2stroke conversions for $11,000 or so? Not a great solution in my opinion. For those...

So your solution is go to a shop that sells custom 2stroke conversions for $11,000 or so? Not a great solution in my opinion. For those that have money to burn sure, sounds awesome.

hellion wrote:

It seems like the hip thing to do to bash Jody and MXA these days. He's older than the other current editors, seems to be grouchy...

It seems like the hip thing to do to bash Jody and MXA these days. He's older than the other current editors, seems to be grouchy, and is set in his ways.

On the other hand he lives for Moto, still races and rides weekly, and has vast experience with the machinery we ride and the people who are responsible for building it. Plus he is not afraid to speak his mind regardless of who he offends.

Lately he has really been pushing the two stroke issue. He has been in the sport longer than just about anyone, has seen where it's been, and has a good idea about where it's going. I applaud him for using his voice to make a difference. For a long time I've thought this two stroke vs. four stroke argument was futile. The four stroke was being crammed down out throats and there was nothing we could do about it. But these threads keep popping up more and more regularly, and more and more two strokes keep showing up at the tracks and trails. Surely the manufacturers must be feeling the sting of decreased sales. KTM can't keep their two stroke line in stock though. Is anyone paying attention at the wheel.

I see now that the main problem is the AMA, and their resistance to change a simple rule. Sure, all the manufacturers would have a fit at first, but ten years from now when the sport is growing again they will see this as a landmark moment in our sports history. Make the 450 class a true 450 class, two strokes and four strokes up to 450 cc's. The same with the 250's. And for gods sake bring back the 125 class. Kids moving off 85's onto 250f's makes so little sense it's unbelievable.

I'm dating myself here, but when I was coming up we used to have four classes. 100's, 125's, 250's, and open. And all the experts raced all the classes. Bikes were relativeley cheap, and you'd race half the year in 100's and 250's, and the other half on 125's and open's. And you know what? The 100's were a freaking blast to race. Sure they were slow, but man you had to wring that thing out and be real creative and smart with line choice and race craft. You should have seen JoJo Keller make a 100 go, and he was a pretty big boy even then. The racing was both affordable and exciting to watch or participate in.

I know Steve Matthes is working at Racer X again and he probably likes his job and doesn't want to piss Davey off too much. But I've even heard him complain that four strokes have ruined racing. And he's just talking about it as a pure spectator. He is so right. Go on youtube and look up any race from the 90's and tell me it's not way more exciting than todays racing where they crawl through the corner and then blast off leaping the whole straight. Watch Reed ride his YZ250 and appreciate an awesome display of talent, or RC just flogging his KX and swapping and bucking and never letting off. You can't ride a 450 like that, you'd get splattered. It makes the racing boring when there is only one guy (JS) willing to hang onto a 450 on the limit.

I guess that if we speak with our wallets we can eventually effect a change here. But it will be slow and the sport will suffer greatly in the meantime. The AMA could make the change happen a lot faster, but do they have the balls? I doubt it.

jmar wrote:

Nothing silly about it. How do you expect an OEM to get excited about two strokes if the majority of those customers are riding five year...

Nothing silly about it.

How do you expect an OEM to get excited about two strokes if the majority of those customers are riding five year old bikes?

CamP wrote:

There are very few visionaries in life, and even fewer visionaries in motocross.

HOGIE888 wrote:

even fewer visionaries in motocross

AJ @ Service is one of those MX visionaires

jmar wrote:

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting. Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push...

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting.

Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push your wishes down other moto enthusiast throats?

BTW: If I were in the market for a two stroke, there is no question about it, Service Honda would get my business.

jmar wrote:

Well then, go buy a Yamaha, KTM or a used two stroke.

It really is that simple.

jmar wrote:

Well then, go buy a Yamaha, KTM or a used two stroke.

It really is that simple.

seth505 wrote:

I did, I own a yz 250. I'm not going to buy 5 of them just to prove I'm a real 2stroke fan though.

jmar wrote:

Well then, go buy a Yamaha, KTM or a used two stroke.

It really is that simple.

seth505 wrote:

I did, I own a yz 250. I'm not going to buy 5 of them just to prove I'm a real 2stroke fan though.

jmar wrote:

Did you buy it new or was it used? What year is it? Do you want the OEMs to start making more two strokes again? This...

Did you buy it new or was it used?
What year is it?

Do you want the OEMs to start making more two strokes again?
This is the kind of thing that will drive them one way or the other.

Little Johnny amateur, buys new bikes every year and if little Johnny isn't on a minibike you can bet that he's buying the four strokes.

HOGIE888 wrote:

even fewer visionaries in motocross

AJ @ Service is one of those MX visionaires

jmar wrote:

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting. Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push...

And he builds just exactly what some of you are wanting.

Why not support AJ and buy one of his bikes, instead of wanting to push your wishes down other moto enthusiast throats?

BTW: If I were in the market for a two stroke, there is no question about it, Service Honda would get my business.

burn1986 wrote:

IMO a 500 2-stroke is a little too much oomph. We might as well go back to the ATK 604 days. What bike do you have...

IMO a 500 2-stroke is a little too much oomph. We might as well go back to the ATK 604 days. What bike do you have jmar?

seth505 wrote:

I did, I own a yz 250. I'm not going to buy 5 of them just to prove I'm a real 2stroke fan though.

jmar wrote:

Did you buy it new or was it used? What year is it? Do you want the OEMs to start making more two strokes again? This...

Did you buy it new or was it used?
What year is it?

Do you want the OEMs to start making more two strokes again?
This is the kind of thing that will drive them one way or the other.

Little Johnny amateur, buys new bikes every year and if little Johnny isn't on a minibike you can bet that he's buying the four strokes.

seth505 wrote:

agh, Yes it was brand new and it is an 09. I don't have the money/time to race all year long so it is still in...

agh, Yes it was brand new and it is an 09. I don't have the money/time to race all year long so it is still in awesome shape. Maybe I will buy a 2012 if there are any that I like at that time.

Ya, you are correct about little johnny amateur except for the fact his PARENTS buy his new bike every year...his parents with enough money to do that for him, which there are less of now due to bike costs and the economy.

burn1986 wrote:

It's unfortunate, but 2-strokes are going away in the US. Even going out and buying a new 2-stroke is not going to save what the Big4...

It's unfortunate, but 2-strokes are going away in the US. Even going out and buying a new 2-stroke is not going to save what the Big4, AMA, MX Sports and DMG are intent on destroying. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.

burn1986 wrote:

It's unfortunate, but 2-strokes are going away in the US. Even going out and buying a new 2-stroke is not going to save what the Big4...

It's unfortunate, but 2-strokes are going away in the US. Even going out and buying a new 2-stroke is not going to save what the Big4, AMA, MX Sports and DMG are intent on destroying. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.

jmar wrote:

It's called natural progression.

No one is trying to destroy anything.

wardy wrote:

17 pages and counting. over 13, ooo views.

yep no interest at all.